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what is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found in bolt threads?
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Emanuel Berg
Jul 2, 2016, 2:15:36 AM7/2/16
to
What is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found
in bolt threads?
And how do you get it clean?
I've found it is too deeply ingrained to do
with a wire brush. I managed with a "hooked
awl", but it was slow.
Threading die perhaps or will that destroy the
hole thing?
Or some chemical yet again?
--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 56 Blogomatic articles -
in bolt threads?
And how do you get it clean?
I've found it is too deeply ingrained to do
with a wire brush. I managed with a "hooked
awl", but it was slow.
Threading die perhaps or will that destroy the
hole thing?
Or some chemical yet again?
--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 56 Blogomatic articles -
Sir Ridesalot
Jul 2, 2016, 2:18:13 AM7/2/16
to
Cheers
russell...@yahoo.com
Jul 2, 2016, 7:50:05 AM7/2/16
to
Blue Loctite
http://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-Threadlocker-Blue-Removable-Clear-Nut-and-Bolt-Fastener/50083054
Sold by every auto parts store. And apparently the big hardware stores too. Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is permanent and you cannot remove the bolt. Most folks think Loctite is good in most situations. Most folks don't want to clean it off. I suppose alcohol or gasoline would remove it.
http://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-Threadlocker-Blue-Removable-Clear-Nut-and-Bolt-Fastener/50083054
Sold by every auto parts store. And apparently the big hardware stores too. Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is permanent and you cannot remove the bolt. Most folks think Loctite is good in most situations. Most folks don't want to clean it off. I suppose alcohol or gasoline would remove it.
Doc O'Leary
Jul 2, 2016, 11:25:31 AM7/2/16
to
For your reference, records indicate that
colors indicate different strengths.
> And how do you get it clean?
It’s all basically a type of superglue, so anything that works to
dissolve an acrylic. Nail polish remover is the common solution,
I think.
--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Emanuel Berg <embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:
> What is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found
> in bolt threads?
Likely a thread locker, to keep things from wiggling loose. Different
> What is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found
> in bolt threads?
colors indicate different strengths.
> And how do you get it clean?
dissolve an acrylic. Nail polish remover is the common solution,
I think.
--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Emanuel Berg
Jul 2, 2016, 1:27:27 PM7/2/16
to
"russell...@yahoo.com"
So it still works even when it fills the thread
gap because it is softer...
It must be strong in some sense tho because
often even for a long screw only three or four
laps have it!
Do you use it when you cannot have a stop nut
on the other side? Or is it still beneficial?
<russell...@yahoo.com> writes:
> Sold by every auto parts store.
> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
> it off.
Aha!
> Sold by every auto parts store.
> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
> it off.
So it still works even when it fills the thread
gap because it is softer...
It must be strong in some sense tho because
often even for a long screw only three or four
laps have it!
Do you use it when you cannot have a stop nut
on the other side? Or is it still beneficial?
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 2, 2016, 1:42:44 PM7/2/16
to
On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 08:15:33 +0200, Emanuel Berg
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:
>What is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found
>in bolt threads?
Loctite Blue.
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:
>What is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found
>in bolt threads?
>And how do you get it clean?
Acetone works just as well, but evaporates rather quickly and is
considered a safety hazard. Careful with both of these around your
bicycle as both will attack most paints and soft rubber parts.
>I've found it is too deeply ingrained to do
>with a wire brush. I managed with a "hooked
>awl", but it was slow.
which should loosen the Loctite.
>Threading die perhaps or will that destroy the
>hole thing?
will repair screw threads:
<http://www.nes.co.il/158905/ThreadMate>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrzFFgGw6k8>
Much depends on the size of the screw. I think you'll find that
you'll get better answers if you describe your problem in NUMBERS.
>Or some chemical yet again?
scrape it clean with a wire brush as it rotates.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Frank Krygowski
Jul 2, 2016, 1:57:17 PM7/2/16
to
On 7/2/2016 1:27 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <russell...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Sold by every auto parts store.
>> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
>> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
>> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
>> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
>> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
>> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
>> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
>> it off.
>
> Aha!
>
> So it still works even when it fills the thread
> gap because it is softer...
>
> It must be strong in some sense tho because
> often even for a long screw only three or four
> laps have it!
>
> Do you use it when you cannot have a stop nut
> on the other side? Or is it still beneficial?
It's always beneficial if the threaded fastener is subject to vibration.
> "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <russell...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Sold by every auto parts store.
>> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
>> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
>> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
>> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
>> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
>> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
>> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
>> it off.
>
> Aha!
>
> So it still works even when it fills the thread
> gap because it is softer...
>
> It must be strong in some sense tho because
> often even for a long screw only three or four
> laps have it!
>
> Do you use it when you cannot have a stop nut
> on the other side? Or is it still beneficial?
One technical detail: Anaerobic thread lockers (Loctite) and these
thread lock patches don't work primarily by adhesive action. Their
action is more dependent on the fact that they stop lateral wiggling of
the fastener within the clearance between the male and female threads.
There's almost always clearance between a male thread and a female one.
If a fastener can vibrate or wiggle side to side within that clearance,
it tends to lose preload very quickly. For an analogy, if you place
(say) a book on a slightly slanted ramp, it will sit in place; but if
you vibrate it or move it side to side, it will slide down the ramp a
bit at a time. The screw thread is, functionally, a ramp on which the
same action happens.
Thread lockers take up that free space and prevent the lateral motion,
so they prevent the screw from loosening.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Emanuel Berg
Jul 2, 2016, 4:40:40 PM7/2/16
to
Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net>
writes:
> There's almost always clearance between
> a male thread and a female one. If a fastener
> can vibrate or wiggle side to side within
> that clearance, it tends to lose preload very
> quickly. For an analogy, if you place (say)
> a book on a slightly slanted ramp, it will
> sit in place; but if you vibrate it or move
> it side to side, it will slide down the ramp
> a bit at a time. The screw thread is,
> functionally, a ramp on which the same
> action happens.
>
> Thread lockers take up that free space and
> prevent the lateral motion, so they prevent
> the screw from loosening.
Understood!
Only: how do you know what parts are subject
to vibration?
If many parts are vibrating, which parts are
safety-critical? The handlebar?
You have a metaphor why star and split washers
work as well?
It consumes the vibration and balances it both
ways so the result is no movement?
Thanks to everyone else answering as well!
writes:
> There's almost always clearance between
> a male thread and a female one. If a fastener
> can vibrate or wiggle side to side within
> that clearance, it tends to lose preload very
> quickly. For an analogy, if you place (say)
> a book on a slightly slanted ramp, it will
> sit in place; but if you vibrate it or move
> it side to side, it will slide down the ramp
> a bit at a time. The screw thread is,
> functionally, a ramp on which the same
> action happens.
>
> Thread lockers take up that free space and
> prevent the lateral motion, so they prevent
> the screw from loosening.
Only: how do you know what parts are subject
to vibration?
If many parts are vibrating, which parts are
safety-critical? The handlebar?
You have a metaphor why star and split washers
work as well?
It consumes the vibration and balances it both
ways so the result is no movement?
Thanks to everyone else answering as well!
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 2, 2016, 4:50:41 PM7/2/16
to
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:57:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Thread lockers take up that free space and prevent the lateral motion,
>so they prevent the screw from loosening.
Thanks for the explanation.
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Thread lockers take up that free space and prevent the lateral motion,
>so they prevent the screw from loosening.
And now, a bit of major topic drift:
I fix quite a few laptops, where the small M2, M2.5, and M3 screws
holding the bottom of the case are secured with blue Loctite. I see
fairly large numbers of missing screws. A typical laptop might have
12 small screws on the bottom, with 4-6 missing. Same problem with
every brand. More use and vibration seems to make it worse. Even
when I reassemble the laptop with additional blue Loctite, and make
sure that the screws are snug, they fall out after a few months.
Oddly, some of the screws require about 6 rotations to remove, which I
find difficult to believe that they just "rattled" out. I couldn't
find any pattern by location, type of screw, heads, depth, or screw
finish quality.
Got any theories? I'm out of bad guesses.
We return you now to bicycling related topics...
The Difference Between Red, Blue, Green and Purple Threadlockers
<http://www.us.henkel-adhesives-blog.com/post/All-About-Threadlockers/The-Difference-Between-Red-Blue-Green-and-Purple-Threadlockers/>
Blue Threadlocker Basics
<http://www.us.henkel-adhesives-blog.com/post/All-About-Threadlockers/Blue-Threadlocker-Basics/>
How to Remove Red Threadlocker
<http://www.us.henkel-adhesives-blog.com/post/All-About-Threadlockers/How-to-Remove-Red-Threadlocker/>
Martin Riddle
Jul 2, 2016, 7:11:17 PM7/2/16
to
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 04:50:01 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Blue Loctite
>
>http://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-Threadlocker-Blue-Removable-Clear-Nut-and-Bolt-Fastener/50083054
>
><snip>. Red Loctite is permanent and you cannot remove the bolt. Most folks think Loctite is good in most situations. Most folks don't want to clean it off. I suppose alcohol or gasoline would remove it.
Red Loctite will soften at higher temperature, a heat gun should do
the trick.
Loctite is availble for differnet metals, Red and Blue are for metals
with iron in them.
Henkel has more application information on their web site.
Cheers
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Blue Loctite
>
>http://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-Threadlocker-Blue-Removable-Clear-Nut-and-Bolt-Fastener/50083054
>
><snip>. Red Loctite is permanent and you cannot remove the bolt. Most folks think Loctite is good in most situations. Most folks don't want to clean it off. I suppose alcohol or gasoline would remove it.
Red Loctite will soften at higher temperature, a heat gun should do
the trick.
Loctite is availble for differnet metals, Red and Blue are for metals
with iron in them.
Henkel has more application information on their web site.
Cheers
Andre Jute
Jul 2, 2016, 7:23:06 PM7/2/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 7:15:36 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> What is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found
> in bolt threads?
Bicycle snot. I happens when your bicycle sneezes.
> What is the blue/cyanic stuff sometimes found
> in bolt threads?
> And how do you get it clean?
> I've found it is too deeply ingrained to do
> with a wire brush. I managed with a "hooked
> awl", but it was slow.
> Threading die perhaps or will that destroy the
> hole thing?
> Or some chemical yet again?
Andre Jute
Andre Jute
Jul 2, 2016, 7:28:38 PM7/2/16
to
I've always found that it is the people with the least knowledge who treat their mickey mouse bits of craft like golden nuggets of wisdom before which everyone is supposed to bow down. You're a prime example of a nobody with a little knowledge posturing like a high priest, Rideablot. All it proves is that you're a Valley Girl on a Bike.
Andre Jute
Cheers, indeed.
russell...@yahoo.com
Jul 2, 2016, 8:23:39 PM7/2/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 3:40:40 PM UTC-5, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Only: how do you know what parts are subject
> to vibration?
>
All the parts on a bicycle vibrate in use. But some more than others. Seatpost bolts usually don't come loose. Brake bolts stay put too. Bolts on the derailleurs and cranks can sometimes come loose. Rarely but sometimes. Bicycles benefit from Loctite. But bicycle bolts can usually be OK without it too. Bolt on bicycles don't come loose as often as bolts on motorcycles for instance. Loctite is an extra just in case prevention step on bicycle bolts. Not required but does not hurt.
> Only: how do you know what parts are subject
> to vibration?
>
> If many parts are vibrating, which parts are
> safety-critical? The handlebar?
>
John B.
Jul 2, 2016, 11:33:08 PM7/2/16
to
On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 19:27:23 +0200, Emanuel Berg
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:
>"russell...@yahoo.com"
><russell...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Sold by every auto parts store.
>> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
>> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
>> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
>> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
>> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
>> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
>> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
>> it off.
>
>Aha!
>
>So it still works even when it fills the thread
>gap because it is softer...
Not exactly. If you think of it as a "super glue" which hardens due to
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:
>"russell...@yahoo.com"
><russell...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Sold by every auto parts store.
>> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
>> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
>> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
>> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
>> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
>> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
>> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
>> it off.
>
>Aha!
>
>So it still works even when it fills the thread
>gap because it is softer...
a lack of air, you will be pretty close.
>It must be strong in some sense tho because
>often even for a long screw only three or four
>laps have it!
four threads but when you screw it in the nut it gets spread over most
of the bolts.
>Do you use it when you cannot have a stop nut
>on the other side? Or is it still beneficial?
unnecessary for a bicycle as vibration is the primary cause of
fasteners loosening and bicycles don't vibrate very much.
--
cheers,
John B.
John B.
Jul 2, 2016, 11:41:29 PM7/2/16
to
On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 22:40:35 +0200, Emanuel Berg
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:
>Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net>
>writes:
>
>> There's almost always clearance between
>> a male thread and a female one. If a fastener
>> can vibrate or wiggle side to side within
>> that clearance, it tends to lose preload very
>> quickly. For an analogy, if you place (say)
>> a book on a slightly slanted ramp, it will
>> sit in place; but if you vibrate it or move
>> it side to side, it will slide down the ramp
>> a bit at a time. The screw thread is,
>> functionally, a ramp on which the same
>> action happens.
>>
>> Thread lockers take up that free space and
>> prevent the lateral motion, so they prevent
>> the screw from loosening.
>
>Understood!
>
>Only: how do you know what parts are subject
>to vibration?
>
>If many parts are vibrating, which parts are
>safety-critical? The handlebar?
"Back in the day", bicycles were usually assembled without using any
<embe...@student.uu.se> wrote:
>Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net>
>writes:
>
>> There's almost always clearance between
>> a male thread and a female one. If a fastener
>> can vibrate or wiggle side to side within
>> that clearance, it tends to lose preload very
>> quickly. For an analogy, if you place (say)
>> a book on a slightly slanted ramp, it will
>> sit in place; but if you vibrate it or move
>> it side to side, it will slide down the ramp
>> a bit at a time. The screw thread is,
>> functionally, a ramp on which the same
>> action happens.
>>
>> Thread lockers take up that free space and
>> prevent the lateral motion, so they prevent
>> the screw from loosening.
>
>Understood!
>
>Only: how do you know what parts are subject
>to vibration?
>
>If many parts are vibrating, which parts are
>safety-critical? The handlebar?
form of thread locking device/material and very seldom did anything
fall off.
Today it seems that everything has loktite on it.
The front forks also have a little sign on them saying "failure to
tighten this nut may cause the wheel to fall off".
>You have a metaphor why star and split washers
>work as well?
>
loosening the bolt.
>It consumes the vibration and balances it both
>ways so the result is no movement?
>
>Thanks to everyone else answering as well!
--
John B.
Frank Krygowski
Jul 3, 2016, 12:16:55 AM7/3/16
to
On 7/2/2016 4:40 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net>
> writes:
>
>> There's almost always clearance between
>> a male thread and a female one. If a fastener
>> can vibrate or wiggle side to side within
>> that clearance, it tends to lose preload very
>> quickly. For an analogy, if you place (say)
>> a book on a slightly slanted ramp, it will
>> sit in place; but if you vibrate it or move
>> it side to side, it will slide down the ramp
>> a bit at a time. The screw thread is,
>> functionally, a ramp on which the same
>> action happens.
>>
>> Thread lockers take up that free space and
>> prevent the lateral motion, so they prevent
>> the screw from loosening.
>
> Understood!
>
> Only: how do you know what parts are subject
> to vibration?
Well, I suppose all of them see some vibration. But fasteners large
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net>
> writes:
>
>> There's almost always clearance between
>> a male thread and a female one. If a fastener
>> can vibrate or wiggle side to side within
>> that clearance, it tends to lose preload very
>> quickly. For an analogy, if you place (say)
>> a book on a slightly slanted ramp, it will
>> sit in place; but if you vibrate it or move
>> it side to side, it will slide down the ramp
>> a bit at a time. The screw thread is,
>> functionally, a ramp on which the same
>> action happens.
>>
>> Thread lockers take up that free space and
>> prevent the lateral motion, so they prevent
>> the screw from loosening.
>
> Understood!
>
> Only: how do you know what parts are subject
> to vibration?
enough to withstand more torque, and longer fasteners, seem more
resistant to loosening. Fine thread ones are more resistant than coarse
threads. Pedals are usually no problem because the precession action
tends to tighten them. In my experience, thread locking compound is
most useful on little 5mm fasteners for things like fenders and racks.
> If many parts are vibrating, which parts are
> safety-critical? The handlebar?
my experience, lots of brake screws and bolts do come with thread
locking of some sort.
> You have a metaphor why star and split washers
> work as well?
think both are intended to slightly dig into the underside of the screw
or nut, and the metal part to which those are clamped.
- Frank Krygowski
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 3, 2016, 12:18:01 AM7/3/16
to
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:41:25 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>"Back in the day", bicycles were usually assembled without using any
>form of thread locking device/material and very seldom did anything
>fall off.
>
>Today it seems that everything has loktite on it.
Back when I was a terror on 2 wheels (early 1960's), I would ride
around on my bicycle with most everything almost ready to fall off.
Just about everything on my various bicycles was loose. What saved
the bicycle from self disassembly was rust, dirt, and grease. The
combination of dirt and grease on bolts, threads, studs, etc acted
much like thread locking compounds, except it was applied on the
outside. It took about the same amount of time for the rust, dirt,
and grease to form as it did for the bolts to work themselves loose.
Since I never bothered to clean the bicycle, the arrangement worked
quite well, and little hardware was lost. Banging on the handle bars,
tolerating rattles, and tying down hardware with kite string was
deemed normal.
Today, people actually clean their bicycles, which I believe is
responsible for the plague of thread locking compounds. Lost are the
benefits of rust, dirt, and grease to deal with loose hardware. On a
clean bicycle, things are more likely to fall off than on a rusted or
dirty bicycle. This tends to attract product liability litigation,
which might suggest that the manufacturer was selling a device that
might suddenly self-disassemble causing grievous injuries worthy of
astronomical awards. Worse, the common availability of thread locking
solutions might suggest that the manufacturer knew about the problem,
ignored the obvious solutions, and is therefore negligent. Since
pre-coating the fasteners with rust, dirt, and grease is not an
acceptable solution, thread lock is used. Whether it is needed or
does anything useful is not part of the question.
>The front forks also have a little sign on them saying "failure to
>tighten this nut may cause the wheel to fall off".
That's the warning label problem. Part of the judgment of a product
liability suit is usually a recommendation by the court that a warning
label be affixed to the faulty device to inform users of the hazard.
Such warnings allegedly convert the plaintiff from an grievously
injured victim of a hazardous product, to a complete idiot unable to
read and follow instructions.
<http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/when-mountain-bike-warning-labels-go-too-far-940742.html>
wrote:
>"Back in the day", bicycles were usually assembled without using any
>form of thread locking device/material and very seldom did anything
>fall off.
>
>Today it seems that everything has loktite on it.
around on my bicycle with most everything almost ready to fall off.
Just about everything on my various bicycles was loose. What saved
the bicycle from self disassembly was rust, dirt, and grease. The
combination of dirt and grease on bolts, threads, studs, etc acted
much like thread locking compounds, except it was applied on the
outside. It took about the same amount of time for the rust, dirt,
and grease to form as it did for the bolts to work themselves loose.
Since I never bothered to clean the bicycle, the arrangement worked
quite well, and little hardware was lost. Banging on the handle bars,
tolerating rattles, and tying down hardware with kite string was
deemed normal.
Today, people actually clean their bicycles, which I believe is
responsible for the plague of thread locking compounds. Lost are the
benefits of rust, dirt, and grease to deal with loose hardware. On a
clean bicycle, things are more likely to fall off than on a rusted or
dirty bicycle. This tends to attract product liability litigation,
which might suggest that the manufacturer was selling a device that
might suddenly self-disassemble causing grievous injuries worthy of
astronomical awards. Worse, the common availability of thread locking
solutions might suggest that the manufacturer knew about the problem,
ignored the obvious solutions, and is therefore negligent. Since
pre-coating the fasteners with rust, dirt, and grease is not an
acceptable solution, thread lock is used. Whether it is needed or
does anything useful is not part of the question.
>The front forks also have a little sign on them saying "failure to
>tighten this nut may cause the wheel to fall off".
liability suit is usually a recommendation by the court that a warning
label be affixed to the faulty device to inform users of the hazard.
Such warnings allegedly convert the plaintiff from an grievously
injured victim of a hazardous product, to a complete idiot unable to
read and follow instructions.
<http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/when-mountain-bike-warning-labels-go-too-far-940742.html>
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 3, 2016, 12:29:27 AM7/3/16
to
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:33:03 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>You use when it is necessary :-) And, it probably is largely
>unnecessary for a bicycle as vibration is the primary cause of
>fasteners loosening and bicycles don't vibrate very much.
Are you sure?
Why Bolts Come Loose
<https://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/why-bolts-come-loose/>
Dynamic Ride Comfort & Measuring Vibration In Bicycles
<http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/08/dynamic-ride-comfort-measuring.html>
wrote:
>You use when it is necessary :-) And, it probably is largely
>unnecessary for a bicycle as vibration is the primary cause of
>fasteners loosening and bicycles don't vibrate very much.
Why Bolts Come Loose
<https://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/why-bolts-come-loose/>
Dynamic Ride Comfort & Measuring Vibration In Bicycles
<http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/08/dynamic-ride-comfort-measuring.html>
Tosspot
Jul 3, 2016, 5:14:40 AM7/3/16
to
you probably all knew about anyway;
http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/loctite-sticks-6180.htm
Which are apparently the dogs wobblers, being the real deal, without all
the messy fluids.
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
Jul 3, 2016, 7:46:54 AM7/3/16
to
Right...left...right ...left...
Uncorroded areas use an iron, corroded needs female surrounding area heated.
Coudnut find the CHOH clean off thinner 10 minutes before the bell went to an at hand can if Gumout. G works as an accelerator.
Yes, held nut in dash foreceps...ocean breeze
Uncorroded areas use an iron, corroded needs female surrounding area heated.
Coudnut find the CHOH clean off thinner 10 minutes before the bell went to an at hand can if Gumout. G works as an accelerator.
Yes, held nut in dash foreceps...ocean breeze
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
Jul 3, 2016, 7:53:06 AM7/3/16
to
I do compulsive vehicle wheel changing.
The stud, just bought a die from Amazon for a couple bucks...wire brushed n wiped clean with clean nuts, gets a soot of blue on the end with a soot in the leading nut thread.
Then the run in to coated seating area stays relatively clean running on a skim of fluid.
get a die...search Amazon due then size...when there'a free shipping minimum. great turn in.
The stud, just bought a die from Amazon for a couple bucks...wire brushed n wiped clean with clean nuts, gets a soot of blue on the end with a soot in the leading nut thread.
Then the run in to coated seating area stays relatively clean running on a skim of fluid.
get a die...search Amazon due then size...when there'a free shipping minimum. great turn in.
(PeteCresswell)
Jul 3, 2016, 10:05:09 AM7/3/16
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Per Jeff Liebermann:
layer of mud and other crud acts as a protective layer....
https://picasaweb.google.com/108149798664924808733/Bikes#5558700035650205282
--
Pete Cresswell
>Today, people actually clean their bicycles, which I believe is
>responsible for the plague of thread locking compounds. Lost are the
>benefits of rust, dirt, and grease to deal with loose hardware. On a
>clean bicycle, things are more likely to fall off than on a rusted or
>dirty bicycle.
That seems to support my own (tongue-in-cheek until now) belief that a
>responsible for the plague of thread locking compounds. Lost are the
>benefits of rust, dirt, and grease to deal with loose hardware. On a
>clean bicycle, things are more likely to fall off than on a rusted or
>dirty bicycle.
layer of mud and other crud acts as a protective layer....
https://picasaweb.google.com/108149798664924808733/Bikes#5558700035650205282
--
Pete Cresswell
Frank Krygowski
Jul 3, 2016, 11:07:05 AM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 5:14 AM, Tosspot wrote:
>
> At this point I'd like to interject a new discovery on my part, which
> you probably all knew about anyway;
>
> http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/loctite-sticks-6180.htm
>
> Which are apparently the dogs wobblers, being the real deal, without all
> the messy fluids.
Nice! When I find one of those for sale, it will go in my touring
>
> At this point I'd like to interject a new discovery on my part, which
> you probably all knew about anyway;
>
> http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/loctite-sticks-6180.htm
>
> Which are apparently the dogs wobblers, being the real deal, without all
> the messy fluids.
bike's bag.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 3, 2016, 1:41:44 PM7/3/16
to
On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 11:14:37 +0200, Tosspot <Frank...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>At this point I'd like to interject a new discovery on my part, which
>you probably all knew about anyway;
>
>http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/loctite-sticks-6180.htm
>
>Which are apparently the dogs wobblers, being the real deal, without all
>the messy fluids.
What's a "dog wobbler"? Loose hardware?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobbler_disease>
How to apply:
<http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/industrial/loctite-sticks-how-to-apply-6227.htm>
Available as an assortment for about $65 per 5 sticks. Ouch.
Typical price per stick is $15 to $20. Ouch again:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/381434564269>
<http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797884940289>
<http://www.sears.com/search=loctite%2038725%20loctite%20thread%20treatment%20sticks%20kit>
I've looked at those sticks at the local auto parts store. Then I
looked at the price and bought the much cheaper $5/bottle liquid
flavor.
Hint: Back in the stone age, before Loctite, my father and I were
using model airplane dope and nail polish (both mostly nitrocellulose)
as thread lock on his sewing machines and attachments. Vibration on
industrial sewing machines can be fairly severe and thread lock is a
necessity. One advantage of these over cyanoacrylate based thread
locking compounds is that they don't take 24 hrs to set.
wrote:
>At this point I'd like to interject a new discovery on my part, which
>you probably all knew about anyway;
>
>http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/loctite-sticks-6180.htm
>
>Which are apparently the dogs wobblers, being the real deal, without all
>the messy fluids.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobbler_disease>
How to apply:
<http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/industrial/loctite-sticks-how-to-apply-6227.htm>
Available as an assortment for about $65 per 5 sticks. Ouch.
Typical price per stick is $15 to $20. Ouch again:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/381434564269>
<http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797884940289>
<http://www.sears.com/search=loctite%2038725%20loctite%20thread%20treatment%20sticks%20kit>
I've looked at those sticks at the local auto parts store. Then I
looked at the price and bought the much cheaper $5/bottle liquid
flavor.
Hint: Back in the stone age, before Loctite, my father and I were
using model airplane dope and nail polish (both mostly nitrocellulose)
as thread lock on his sewing machines and attachments. Vibration on
industrial sewing machines can be fairly severe and thread lock is a
necessity. One advantage of these over cyanoacrylate based thread
locking compounds is that they don't take 24 hrs to set.
AMuzi
Jul 3, 2016, 3:20:45 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/2/2016 12:27 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <russell...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Sold by every auto parts store.
>> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
>> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
>> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
>> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
>> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
>> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
>> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
>> it off.
>
> Aha!
>
> So it still works even when it fills the thread
> gap because it is softer...
>
> It must be strong in some sense tho because
> often even for a long screw only three or four
> laps have it!
>
> Do you use it when you cannot have a stop nut
> on the other side? Or is it still beneficial?
>
Nope.
> "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <russell...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Sold by every auto parts store.
>> And apparently the big hardware stores too.
>> Blue means its removable, you can unscrew the
>> bolt with a wrench but the bolt will not
>> unscrew by itself when in use. Red Loctite is
>> permanent and you cannot remove the bolt.
>> Most folks think Loctite is good in most
>> situations. Most folks don't want to clean
>> it off.
>
> Aha!
>
> So it still works even when it fills the thread
> gap because it is softer...
>
> It must be strong in some sense tho because
> often even for a long screw only three or four
> laps have it!
>
> Do you use it when you cannot have a stop nut
> on the other side? Or is it still beneficial?
>
Loctite is an anaerobic adhesive. It crystallizes in the
absence of oxygen (i.e., after the threaded piece is tight).
May be degraded/released with heat later if desired.
see henkel.com
Holy crap they even have a Svensk page! Read on:
http://www.henkel.se/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Mark J.
Jul 3, 2016, 5:10:22 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 12:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> Loctite is an anaerobic adhesive. It crystallizes in the absence of
> oxygen (i.e., after the threaded piece is tight). May be
> degraded/released with heat later if desired.
>
> see henkel.com
Maybe you can clarify something that's confused me on the blue loctite
> Loctite is an anaerobic adhesive. It crystallizes in the absence of
> oxygen (i.e., after the threaded piece is tight). May be
> degraded/released with heat later if desired.
>
> see henkel.com
issue:
I've applied loctite often enough, it "goes on" in liquid form, and then
I assemble the piece, and the loctite is hidden. I don't think I've
ever disassembled one of those pieces, so I don't know what it looks
like after it sets. [I tend to think of loctite as a means of last resort.]
However:
On, say, new disk brake rotor bolts or (new) square-taper crank bolts, I
see the blue stuff manufacturers have applied. It's not liquid and
appears to be a somewhat soft, perhaps granulated solid. Maybe I only
see the granulation when I later remove the bolt and the blue stuff
appears to have crumbled.
Question: Is the liquid blue loctite and the soft solid I'm seeing on
OEM parts the same stuff?
Mark J.
Frank Krygowski
Jul 3, 2016, 6:12:26 PM7/3/16
to
compounds. As Andrew said, the most common liquid stuff is an anaerobic
compound, one specifically designed to harden in the absence of air.
I've removed lots of screws that were retained with blue loctite. The
stuff doesn't stay blue. IIRC, it ends up some vaguely tan color.
--
- Frank Krygowski
John B.
Jul 3, 2016, 7:04:04 PM7/3/16
to
On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 21:17:57 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
I assume from news reports that the U.S. courts are there to protect
the mentally deficient, or those completely ga-ga. If I remember,
there is some sort of ruling that when you buy something that you have
a right to expect it to do whatever it was sold to do.
But equally, when a company sells a 3 or 4 thousand dollar bicycle
shouldn't they have the right to assume, for instance, that the
purchaser is mentally competent enough to put the wheels on?
And what about the people that can't read -
http://www.statisticbrain.com/number-of-american-adults-who-cant-read/
32 million adults in the U.S. can't read. That's 14 percent of the
population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade
level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can't read.
I don't have a date for the study but the article was dated December,
2014 and refers to "According to a study conducted in late April by
the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of
Literacy" which that says was conducted "last year".
Perhaps there is a place for an electronics guy that could design a
tiny little device that would include a proximity sensor and a tiny
speaker that, when anyone came near, would say, "If you don't tighten
the nut the wheel may come off".
Probably get them knocked out in Shanghai for what, maybe $0.24 each,
shipping is pretty cheap so $0.99 cents to the bike company in lots
of, say 1,000. In a year or so you could hire a Lobbyist and get, at
least a state, regulation that these are a necessity to avoid the
possibility of a wheel coming off. In fact a double purpose (1) to
make bicycling safer, and (2) politically correct to avoid
embarrassing those who can't read.
Think of it. All the bicycle activists would be slobbering all down
their shirt front to tell their adherents about them and in a couple
of years maybe even a federal regulation.
Certainly, if a helmet and a flashing light keep you safe then a
device that actually speaks to you every time you bend over must mean
that you will be safer than safe.
--
cheers,
John B.
wrote:
the mentally deficient, or those completely ga-ga. If I remember,
there is some sort of ruling that when you buy something that you have
a right to expect it to do whatever it was sold to do.
But equally, when a company sells a 3 or 4 thousand dollar bicycle
shouldn't they have the right to assume, for instance, that the
purchaser is mentally competent enough to put the wheels on?
And what about the people that can't read -
http://www.statisticbrain.com/number-of-american-adults-who-cant-read/
32 million adults in the U.S. can't read. That's 14 percent of the
population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade
level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can't read.
I don't have a date for the study but the article was dated December,
2014 and refers to "According to a study conducted in late April by
the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of
Literacy" which that says was conducted "last year".
Perhaps there is a place for an electronics guy that could design a
tiny little device that would include a proximity sensor and a tiny
speaker that, when anyone came near, would say, "If you don't tighten
the nut the wheel may come off".
Probably get them knocked out in Shanghai for what, maybe $0.24 each,
shipping is pretty cheap so $0.99 cents to the bike company in lots
of, say 1,000. In a year or so you could hire a Lobbyist and get, at
least a state, regulation that these are a necessity to avoid the
possibility of a wheel coming off. In fact a double purpose (1) to
make bicycling safer, and (2) politically correct to avoid
embarrassing those who can't read.
Think of it. All the bicycle activists would be slobbering all down
their shirt front to tell their adherents about them and in a couple
of years maybe even a federal regulation.
Certainly, if a helmet and a flashing light keep you safe then a
device that actually speaks to you every time you bend over must mean
that you will be safer than safe.
--
cheers,
John B.
jbeattie
Jul 3, 2016, 8:17:41 PM7/3/16
to
-- Jay Beattie
0 new messages