Litespeed vs Merlin
JBM Bama
I need some help. I'm looking for a titanium frame and have looked at both
Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion on which is better? Is
there tubing about the same?
~~~JBM~~~
Seth Moore
Serotta all side by side at a recent race and I can say that the Serotta was
much, much better finished. The owner loved it.
Seth Moore
JBM Bama wrote in message <20000804102339...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
Stephan Mantler
division (ie. QR & Merlin) has been / will be sold by Saucony to
the same company that's behind Litespeed...
-s-
JBM Bama wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
> I need some help. I'm looking for a titanium frame and have looked
> at both Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion on which
> is better? Is there tubing about the same?
>
> ~~~JBM~~~
--
stephan mantler: endurance sports maniac reality is in fact virtual.
http://step.cg.tuwien.ac.at/~step/ st...@acm.org
Jim Flom
I'm v. happy with my Serotta steel bike.
Jim
"Seth Moore" <jb...@erinet.com> wrote in message
news:398adf04$0$62224$53a6...@news.erinet.com...
> Check out a Serotta Ti. Had a chance to check out a Seven, Merlin and a
> Serotta all side by side at a recent race and I can say that the Serotta
was
> much, much better finished. The owner loved it.
>
> Seth Moore
>
> JBM Bama wrote in message
<20000804102339...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
ScottV
<20000804102339...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
> >Hey guys,
> >I need some help. I'm looking for a titanium frame and have looked at
both
> >Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion on which is better?
Is
> >there tubing about the same?
> >
> >~~~JBM~~~
>
Want a tool get a Litespeed.
Want a piece of art get a Merlin.
I have a Litespeed Classic which I'm very happy with.
ScottV
Roadriding
Merlin does a nicer job with the welding. I've owned two Merlins and one
litespeed and they are all nice but if I had to say which bike just says
quality it has to be Merlin. Also, remember Merlin was recently bought out by
Litespeed so make sure you are looking a Merlin that waspre-litespeed era.
Good luck!
TD
Tater
intend to keep them as two totally separate operations. Thus, a Litespeed
will still be a Litespeed, and a Merlin still a Merlin.
Chad
"Roadriding" <roadr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000804183024...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
TC
If you are buying a titanium frame because it's durable and require less
care than other frame material. Get a Litespeed, they have made more
frame than any other titanium manufacturers, Merlin used to take approx.
18 hours to produce a frame, after Litespeed took over, a Merlin frame
take less than 10 hours to produce. The tooling and methods of
production is different between each manufactuer. If you are buying a
piece of art in titanium, something that you won't see many down the
road after the purchase, get an Ibis; I've had one for over 5 years,
30,000 miles later, I've yet to see another one on the road on a ride.
If you want the ultimate ride quality, get a Kestrel 500 Series.
TC
John Carrier
"JBM Bama" <jbm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000804102339...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
> Hey guys,
> I need some help. I'm looking for a titanium frame and have looked at
both
> Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion on which is better?
Is
> there tubing about the same?
Different design philosophies and cosmetics, probably immaterial on the
road. Merlin offers (offered?) more stock sizes. Merlins are (were)
generally a bit more quick handling. If you decide you like Merlin, take a
look at Tom Kellogg's Spectrum (welded by Merlin, much nicer cosmetics IMO,
and no more expensive).
R / John
Qui si parla Campagnolo
intend to keep them as two totally separate operations. >>
True, however all the operations of merlin is being moved to Ootawah, TN. Don't
know how many welders from Merlin are moving. I think Merlin as we know it is
gone and the 'new' Merlin will be modified and blended by Litespeed-
Peter Chisholm
"Vecchio's" Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl ST.
Boulder, CO
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
Jim Flom
> I think Merlin as we know it is
> gone and the 'new' Merlin will be modified and blended by Litespeed-
It's all rock and roll to me.
Nanook
for four years and my other bikes just gather dust in the basement. It's
beautifully built and a great ride - and you will definitely not see many on
the road.
JBM Bama wrote in message <20000804102339...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
>Hey guys,
>I need some help. I'm looking for a titanium frame and have looked at both
>Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion on which is better? Is
>there tubing about the same?
>
>~~~JBM~~~
Jon Isaacs
builds some very nice custom Ti frames. His bikes are true customs that are
matched to the needs of the rider, whether it is Richard Bryne's 11.5 lb bike
or a Tri bike with a Softride beam.
jon isaacs
winston visbeck
tubing difference was that Merlin worked the inside of the tubing as well
as the outside for a smooth finish, whereas Litespeed just works the
outside. Litespeed makes titanium frames for a number of bike companies
also. I own an Eddy Merckx Ti Ax built by Litespeed--best frame I ever
owned. This info is true to my knowledge. If anyone else has info, please
reply.
JBM Bama <jbm...@aol.com> wrote in article
BIKEMIKE30
closed it. This information was in Bicycle Retailer and should
prove correct.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Harold Norman
>
> Hey guys,
> I need some help. I'm looking for a titanium frame and have
> looked at both Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion
> on which is better? Is there tubing about the same?
Hi JBM-
Can't help directly. Sorry.
This is slightly ( or a lot ) off-topic, but I think
folks who have responded to this thread can help a great deal.
At 6'4" and 225 lbs. I have a great deal of conflicting
advise on whether or not a Ti road bike will be stiff
enough for hammering on the flats or cranking up hills/mtns.
Unfortunately, most advice is from friends who are 75 lbs.
lighter or LBSs that have been too quick to chat up
custom steel.
Any advice would be appreciated. It sure would be nice
to upgrade components for durability rather than spend
these dollars on anything custom.
Thanks.
-- HN
Jm1226
>At 6'4" and 225 lbs. I have a great deal of conflicting
>advise on whether or not a Ti road bike will be stiff
>enough for hammering on the flats or cranking up hills/mtns.
I'm 6'5", weigh 235 and ride 66cm framed bikes. If the builder knows what they
are doing a Ti bike will work for you. Check out Zinncycles.com for some
information on tall ti bikes. Lenard Zinn is a custom builder who specializes
in building bikes for tall folk. He extends the seat tube and head tube up and
drops the top tube down. This makes for a smaller main triangle which
strengthens the frame. Craig Calfee does the same thing with his 66cm carbon
fiber frames. I have a 66cm Tetra Pro and the main triangle measures about the
same as a standard 61cm bike.
>Unfortunately, most advice is from friends who are 75 lbs.
>lighter or LBSs that have been too quick to chat up
>custom steel.
Nothing wrong with steel. I also have a 66cm Waterford (lugged Reynolds 853)
that is a joy to ride. Both of my bikes are stock geometry. Unless your body
is stranger than mine you probably don't need to go custom. Just make sure the
builder knows what they are doing and stand behind their product.
John
"Everyday for us something new
Open mind for a different view
And nothing else matters" Metallica 1991
Jm1226
>closed it.
How many of the people that made Merlin, Merlin moved with the name?
Peter Cole
"Harold Norman" <harold...@nospam.att.net> wrote in message
news:398E17...@nospam.att.net...
>
> At 6'4" and 225 lbs. I have a great deal of conflicting
> advise on whether or not a Ti road bike will be stiff
> enough for hammering on the flats or cranking up hills/mtns.
> lighter or LBSs that have been too quick to chat up
> custom steel.
>
> to upgrade components for durability rather than spend
> these dollars on anything custom.
I'm 6'10", 235. I ride a Cannondale. I have spoken with a couple of guys
nearly my size with custom steel frames who would have preferred stiffer
frames. I spoke with a couple of frame builders who talked about the
problems of making oversize frames and how it would be somewhat of an
experiment for them. I bought the Cannondale frame ($450, on sale) as a
stopgap while I researched custom options, and continue to ride it until I'm
convinced there's something better out there.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
According to the Litespeed outside rep that I rode with yesterday-none of them-
Dan Bertko
lbs. The pleasure of riding a Ti bike seems to have upgraded me a rider.
Dan
----------
In article <20000806235045...@ng-fj1.aol.com>, jm1...@aol.com
Nlnspdsk8r
>Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion on which is better? Is
>there tubing about the same?
To quote a local dealer of both: " Merlin is dated. Litespeed makes a better
product".
David Scarbro
Walt Wehner
Yeah. You're much better off riding a Litespeed like all the other fat
yuppies in the world.
-Walt
John Carrier
better
> >product".
>
Merlin uses round tubes (externally butted on the Extralite). They make a
big deal about the "quality" of their tubes, usually 3/2.5 alloy.
Litespeed uses all kinds of shapes (and often changes every year or so) to
"optimize" the tube's shape for its function. L/S also fabricates 6/4 from
sheet into tubing to create a supposedly lighter/stronger frame.
As both make excellent (and expensive) frames that ride and handle well, are
quite light (some Al and C/F are lighter) and last a long time, the issue of
which is better is up to the snake oil salemen.
In this price range, buy the bike that fits and blows your skirt up.
R / John
Harold Norman
>
> Yeah. You're much better off riding a Litespeed
> like all the other fat yuppies in the world.
>
> -Walt
Gee Walt. Are you serious? You are posting from
a maternal governmental lab with reasonable salaries
and good bennies. And you are doing it on my nickel.
If you can't join 'em, then quit whining. Get a real job.
-- HN ex-TSM ( LANL staffer: been-there, done-that )
Rick Steele
>>Its true that litespeed bought merlin but they only moved it not
>>closed it.
>
> How many of the people that made Merlin, Merlin moved with the name?
>
None, according to the latest "Bicycle Retailer". With that, it then may be
hard not to call any new Merlin produced, a Litespeed/Merlin, as we've
gotten use to saying Trek/LeMond in the same breath. Not that this is bad
depending on your point of view. Additionally, Saucony's bike division that
owned Merlin, also sold off Quintana Roo and Real components to Litespeed.
Rick
Walt Wehner
makes me feel like a yuppie. Luckily, I don't pay for bikes, I have
sponsorships. My point was: Litespeeds are ridden almost exclusively by
losers and rich people who think fancy equipment will make them fast.
VERY few people who are fast actually choose such bikes (excepting those
who are sponsored by Litespeed, and even they aren't that good).
-W
Joe Rutledge
in a Ti frame, take a hard look at Moots or Seven.
--
Regards,
Joe Rutledge
JBM Bama wrote in message <20000804102339...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
>Hey guys,
>I need some help. I'm looking for a titanium frame and have looked at both
>Merlin and Litespeed. Does anyone have an opinion on which is better? Is
>there tubing about the same?
>
>~~~JBM~~~
Alex Rodriguez
>
>Yeah, I'm a grad student making peanuts. Eating PB&J every day sure
>makes me feel like a yuppie. Luckily, I don't pay for bikes, I have
>sponsorships. My point was: Litespeeds are ridden almost exclusively by
>losers and rich people who think fancy equipment will make them fast.
>VERY few people who are fast actually choose such bikes (excepting those
>who are sponsored by Litespeed, and even they aren't that good).
In the peloton We have seen more than one easily identified litespeed that was
painted decaled to look like a pro's sponsor. Some pros must like the bike
enough to have this done. Also, anyone who is that fast is sponsored and will
go with thier sponsors equpiment. Litespeeds are good bikes, not necessarily
the best, but they are not as bad as you want to make them out to be.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)
Jm1226
>Luckily, I don't pay for bikes, I have
>sponsorships. My point was: Litespeeds are ridden almost exclusively by
>losers and rich people who think fancy equipment will make them fast.
I'm glad to hear you are sponsered and get free bikes. It saddens me to hear
you talk about Lightspeed owners being losers. I guess in your bicycle world,
the world of racers, you are either fast or a loser. There is another bicycle
world out there that is probably larger than your racer world. That other
world doesn't always measure everything in terms of speed. I belong to the
world of the recreational rider. I judge my bikes on durability and comfort on
100+ mile rides. If they make me go faster that is always a plus. I don't own
a Lightspeed but I do ride with a few people who ride 10,000+ miles a year on
their Lightspeeds and I wouldn't classify them as losers just because they
don't measure up to your speed standards.
Lfdtrauma
BTW, how do you get so fast just eating PB&J ?? I must be missing something in
my training regimen.
Lou D'Amelio
tsch...@my-deja.com
in the '93 World Championships and every time
trial in last year's Tour. So which is Lance,
fat, a rich loser, or fast but not that good? He
was one of several top pros who used to choose
rebadged Litespeeds exclusively. Seriously, I too
was once a poor, ramen noodle and PB&J eating grad
student, but that didn't embitter me to the extent
I felt obligated to trash other's bikes. Live and
let live, and let your riding do the talking.
JT
In article <39943345...@nis.lanl.gov>,
Walt Wehner <wwe...@nis.lanl.gov> wrote:
> Yeah, I'm a grad student making peanuts. Eating
PB&J every day sure
> makes me feel like a yuppie. Luckily, I don't
pay for bikes, I have
> sponsorships. My point was: Litespeeds are
ridden almost exclusively by
> losers and rich people who think fancy equipment
will make them fast.
> VERY few people who are fast actually choose
such bikes (excepting those
> who are sponsored by Litespeed, and even they
aren't that good).
>
> -W
>
> Harold Norman wrote:
>
> > Walt Wehner wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah. You're much better off riding a
Litespeed
> > > like all the other fat yuppies in the world.
> > >
> > > -Walt
> >
> > Gee Walt. Are you serious? You are posting
from
> > a maternal governmental lab with reasonable
salaries
> > and good bennies. And you are doing it on my
nickel.
> >
> > If you can't join 'em, then quit whining. Get
a real job.
> >
> > -- HN ex-TSM ( LANL staffer: been-there,
done-that )
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve Palincsar
> Different design philosophies and cosmetics, probably immaterial on the
> road. Merlin offers (offered?) more stock sizes. Merlins are (were)
> generally a bit more quick handling. If you decide you like Merlin, take a
> look at Tom Kellogg's Spectrum (welded by Merlin, much nicer cosmetics IMO,
> and no more expensive).
And, they're customs. Tom's great. Wonderful to work with, an
incredible fitter, and a great listener. My Spectrum's exactly 100%
what I was asking for, and after 9 years on the road still looks great.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
fat, a rich loser, or fast but not that good? >>
rich winner-thanks to TREK-
Dougie Richardson
is truly lightweight, they have made Lance a carbon fibre replica of
his Litespeed TT bike, the dimensions of which were measured by laser,
so that it is exactly the same bike, but in carbon. As you americans
would say, go figure.
On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 17:51:33 GMT, tsch...@my-deja.com wrote:
>Funny, Lance Armstrong rode a Litespeed to victory
>in the '93 World Championships and every time
>trial in last year's Tour. So which is Lance,
>fat, a rich loser, or fast but not that good? He
>was one of several top pros who used to choose
>rebadged Litespeeds exclusively. Seriously, I too
>was once a poor, ramen noodle and PB&J eating grad
>student, but that didn't embitter me to the extent
>I felt obligated to trash other's bikes. Live and
>let live, and let your riding do the talking.
>
snip...
Paul Arpino
Merlin makes a good bike. Seven makes a great bike (can you tell I'm biased?)
I've seen more Lightspeed frames fail than Merlins. But then how many more
frames does Lightspeed make vs Merlin? I have seen two people trade their
Lightspeeds in for Merlins. The quality and the finish of a Seven is superior to
Lightspeed, oh but I have seen them make mistakes. I was riding a very good
custom steel frame that to me rides better and handles better than anything else
I have ridden, including my Seven. When Seven first came out I test rode quite a
few (none of which were even my size) I fell in love with the ride. I had a
friend spec one out, I stripped my steel frame for parts and built up the Seven.
Its great I average about 200 miles a week. I don't claim to be fast, cause I'm
not I just enjoy riding my bike. I have seen the inside of other ti frames and
seen ugly purple blotches at the welds (a sure sign of overheating). I have been
to both the Seven Factory and the Merlin Factory (and Independent Fabrication,
and its predecessor Fat Chance) I have sold, built, and ridden Sevens and
Merlins. I know the people who work there. Alas Merlin is no more, but Seven is
going strong. Independent FAbrication is coming out with a Ti road bike I've
heard its supposed to be pretty nice. All of this doesn't mean didly though. The
question isn't which manufacturer makes the better frame, the question is which
frame is best for you. Why not forget about the names test ride the bikes under
equal conditions and pick one. A friend of mine has a Lightspeed, He can leave
me standing still. Is his Lightspeed better than my Seven? He would say no,
however his handling abilities and strength make me look very slow. For the
recreational rider it's about having fun, anything else is bull. For the athlete
its how hard he or she trains. if your looking for a durable non rusting frame
ti is your material. Nuff said
PA