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Guns, Germs and Steel
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EdwardDolan
Jul 25, 2016, 3:57:34 AM7/25/16
to
"John B." wrote in message
news:i6vgob1fma78meo1i...@4ax.com...
[...]
>> And how do I know? Well I have actually, unlike you, spent some time
>in places [West Papua?] where no man may have ever walked before.
>[...]
>>> If, instead of sitting home watching the T.V. you actually traveled to
any of these remote regions you would find that the bulk of the poor
primitive people are located along rivers and streams where there is
an abundance of water and at least fish to eat. And even the Danu
people, a stone age culture, in West Guinea who live as high as 3,000
- 4,000 ft. above sea level and depend on agriculture for survival
live along streams and rivers.
Edward Dolan wrote:
The kind of agriculture practiced in New Guinea was not capable of
supporting a large population, but even so, the land was being fully
occupied given the kind of economy that was available to them. Any
elementary course in anthropology will explain why primitive peoples live
where they live, but you were claiming that there are areas of the earth
that were untrod by man. That is what I am disputing, not that some areas
were difficult, if not impossible to settle. Only Antarctica was relatively
untrod by man.
[...]
>>> Again you speak without knowledge. In fact there aren't many people in
New Guinea. No where that I worked, in roughly 5 years in the country,
was there a town or village. The Danu, one of the largest tribes seem
to have about 90,000 members, and the entire populating of W. New
Guinea is estimated at 3.6 million and the population density seems to
be 10 per sq. Km. Anthropologists describe the people as primarily
living in villages along the rivers.
New Guinea, like every other area of the world, was fully populated in
accordance with the economy that prevailed there. An island the size of New
Guiana with millions of people will have examined every square inch of that
island. The brute fact of geography itself will determine how many people
the land will support. Tropical areas only look rich and fertile, but they
are not. New Guinea was supporting as many people as it could support.
Besides reading some anthropology you should perhaps read Malthus, although
I think primitive people were better at controlling their population than we
are.
[...]
More about New Guinea:
Has it ever occurred to you why Britain had an empire that covered the world
while New Guinea remained mired in poverty and savagery? They are both about
similar sized islands - and let us go with the progressive liberal view that
all people are born equal. Why were the outcomes on these two islands so
different? Frankly, I would have had a tough time answering that question
myself, other than making some general observations that Britain was the
repository of other earlier advanced civilizations whereas New Guinea was
not.
Sine you have an interest in New Guinea based on your stay there, here is a
video which is a must view for you. It was an eye opener for me and I think
it will be for you too. It is long and in 18 parts, but it will repay the
time and effort you spend on it because it will teach you some hard lessons
about mankind that you never knew, or least never thought about much.
From a description of the YouTube video:
“ Uploaded on Nov 5, 2007
Episode One : Out of Eden (Part 1 of 6)
Jared Diamond's journey of discovery began on the island of Papua New
Guinea. There, in 1974, a local named Yali asked Diamond a deceptively
simple question:
"Why is it that you white people developed so much cargo, but we black
people had little cargo of our own?"
Diamond realized that Yali's question penetrated the heart of a great
mystery of human history -- the roots of global inequality.
Why were Europeans the ones with all the cargo? Why had they taken over so
much of the world, instead of the native people of New Guinea? How did
Europeans end up with what Diamond terms the agents of conquest: guns, germs
and steel? It was these agents of conquest that allowed 168 Spanish
conquistadors to defeat an Imperial Inca army of 80,000 in 1532, and set a
pattern of European conquest which would continue right up to the present
day.
Diamond knew that the answer had little to do with ingenuity or individual
skill. From his own experience in the jungles of New Guinea, he had observed
that native hunter-gatherers were just as intelligent as people of European
descent -- and far more resourceful. Their lives were tough, and it seemed a
terrible paradox of history that these extraordinary people should be the
conquered, and not the conquerors.
To examine the reasons for European success, Jared realized he had to peel
back the layers of history and begin his search at a time of equality -- a
time when all the peoples of the world lived in exactly the same way. ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnmT-Y_rGQ&index=1&list=PL21D82E72068E3035
What prompted this post? John B. has spent years in New Guinea and thinks
someone like me could not possibly know anything about conditions there.
Alas for that view, anyone can know just about anything about anywhere in
the world as a result of the kind of technology that is available to us
today. All it takes is a willingness to learn.
This video will make anyone who views it very humble about any professed
superiority he might be deluded with as a result of being born into a
superior culture. I highly recommend this video to anyone who would like to
learn something about the conditions of mankind on this planet.
Regards,
Ed Dolan – Minnesota
news:i6vgob1fma78meo1i...@4ax.com...
[...]
>> And how do I know? Well I have actually, unlike you, spent some time
>in places [West Papua?] where no man may have ever walked before.
>[...]
>>> If, instead of sitting home watching the T.V. you actually traveled to
any of these remote regions you would find that the bulk of the poor
primitive people are located along rivers and streams where there is
an abundance of water and at least fish to eat. And even the Danu
people, a stone age culture, in West Guinea who live as high as 3,000
- 4,000 ft. above sea level and depend on agriculture for survival
live along streams and rivers.
Edward Dolan wrote:
The kind of agriculture practiced in New Guinea was not capable of
supporting a large population, but even so, the land was being fully
occupied given the kind of economy that was available to them. Any
elementary course in anthropology will explain why primitive peoples live
where they live, but you were claiming that there are areas of the earth
that were untrod by man. That is what I am disputing, not that some areas
were difficult, if not impossible to settle. Only Antarctica was relatively
untrod by man.
[...]
>>> Again you speak without knowledge. In fact there aren't many people in
New Guinea. No where that I worked, in roughly 5 years in the country,
was there a town or village. The Danu, one of the largest tribes seem
to have about 90,000 members, and the entire populating of W. New
Guinea is estimated at 3.6 million and the population density seems to
be 10 per sq. Km. Anthropologists describe the people as primarily
living in villages along the rivers.
New Guinea, like every other area of the world, was fully populated in
accordance with the economy that prevailed there. An island the size of New
Guiana with millions of people will have examined every square inch of that
island. The brute fact of geography itself will determine how many people
the land will support. Tropical areas only look rich and fertile, but they
are not. New Guinea was supporting as many people as it could support.
Besides reading some anthropology you should perhaps read Malthus, although
I think primitive people were better at controlling their population than we
are.
[...]
More about New Guinea:
Has it ever occurred to you why Britain had an empire that covered the world
while New Guinea remained mired in poverty and savagery? They are both about
similar sized islands - and let us go with the progressive liberal view that
all people are born equal. Why were the outcomes on these two islands so
different? Frankly, I would have had a tough time answering that question
myself, other than making some general observations that Britain was the
repository of other earlier advanced civilizations whereas New Guinea was
not.
Sine you have an interest in New Guinea based on your stay there, here is a
video which is a must view for you. It was an eye opener for me and I think
it will be for you too. It is long and in 18 parts, but it will repay the
time and effort you spend on it because it will teach you some hard lessons
about mankind that you never knew, or least never thought about much.
From a description of the YouTube video:
“ Uploaded on Nov 5, 2007
Episode One : Out of Eden (Part 1 of 6)
Jared Diamond's journey of discovery began on the island of Papua New
Guinea. There, in 1974, a local named Yali asked Diamond a deceptively
simple question:
"Why is it that you white people developed so much cargo, but we black
people had little cargo of our own?"
Diamond realized that Yali's question penetrated the heart of a great
mystery of human history -- the roots of global inequality.
Why were Europeans the ones with all the cargo? Why had they taken over so
much of the world, instead of the native people of New Guinea? How did
Europeans end up with what Diamond terms the agents of conquest: guns, germs
and steel? It was these agents of conquest that allowed 168 Spanish
conquistadors to defeat an Imperial Inca army of 80,000 in 1532, and set a
pattern of European conquest which would continue right up to the present
day.
Diamond knew that the answer had little to do with ingenuity or individual
skill. From his own experience in the jungles of New Guinea, he had observed
that native hunter-gatherers were just as intelligent as people of European
descent -- and far more resourceful. Their lives were tough, and it seemed a
terrible paradox of history that these extraordinary people should be the
conquered, and not the conquerors.
To examine the reasons for European success, Jared realized he had to peel
back the layers of history and begin his search at a time of equality -- a
time when all the peoples of the world lived in exactly the same way. ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnmT-Y_rGQ&index=1&list=PL21D82E72068E3035
What prompted this post? John B. has spent years in New Guinea and thinks
someone like me could not possibly know anything about conditions there.
Alas for that view, anyone can know just about anything about anywhere in
the world as a result of the kind of technology that is available to us
today. All it takes is a willingness to learn.
This video will make anyone who views it very humble about any professed
superiority he might be deluded with as a result of being born into a
superior culture. I highly recommend this video to anyone who would like to
learn something about the conditions of mankind on this planet.
Regards,
Ed Dolan – Minnesota
cycl...@gmail.com
Nov 16, 2016, 2:25:19 PM11/16/16
to
There isn't one spot on earth where man has not only trod but lived. Even Eskimos have lived in the Arctic and man presently lives in several research stations at the south pole.
Man is the universal creature and there is no spot on earth where life can exist that man has not now or in the past existed.
EdwardDolan
Nov 16, 2016, 9:56:03 PM11/16/16
to
wrote in message
news:6c82a479-f632-40d7...@googlegroups.com...
My God! Someone posting to Usenet who actually agrees with me! I am not used
to this. But of course you are so right. If you are making your living by
gathering and hunting, you will not allow any area of the earth to go
unnoticed.
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
news:6c82a479-f632-40d7...@googlegroups.com...
to this. But of course you are so right. If you are making your living by
gathering and hunting, you will not allow any area of the earth to go
unnoticed.
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
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