Beyond bike lanes

[Frank Krygowski]

Here's an excellent talk on the problems that bike lanes impose, and a
solution to those problems. I think it's well worth half an hour of
watching & listening, and worth sharing.

http://vimeo.com/43603867

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Király]

THANK YOU Frank, for posting this. I agree 100% with the presentation.
I will be sharing this link with the local cycling advocacy organziation
in Vancouver, who in recent years has been undoing decades of proper
bicyling advocacy, by screaming for separated bike lanes. Trying to get
bikes off of the road is the last thing a cycling advocacy org should be
doing.

--
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

[SMS]

On 6/22/2012 12:20 PM, Király wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Frank Krygowski<frkrygo...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Here's an excellent talk on the problems that bike lanes impose, and a
>> solution to those problems. I think it's well worth half an hour of

>> watching& listening, and worth sharing.

>>
>> http://vimeo.com/43603867
>
> THANK YOU Frank, for posting this. I agree 100% with the presentation.
> I will be sharing this link with the local cycling advocacy organziation
> in Vancouver, who in recent years has been undoing decades of proper
> bicyling advocacy, by screaming for separated bike lanes. Trying to get
> bikes off of the road is the last thing a cycling advocacy org should be
> doing.

Actually you should look at
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o>. A coherent network of
properly designed and interconnected bicycle path is what led to the
Netherlands becoming the leading bicycle-centric country. More cycling,
fewer fatal accidents.

The problem in the U.S. is that the cycle paths are often poorly
designed and there are large gaps in the system, so it's often safer to
avoid them entirely. Giving up on the optimal solution may be easier,
but it's not looking at the big picture, and it will make eventually
getting to a system like they have in Amsterdam much more difficult.

[Frank Krygowski]

SMS wrote:
> On 6/22/2012 12:20 PM, Király wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Frank Krygowski<frkrygo...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> Here's an excellent talk on the problems that bike lanes impose, and a
>>> solution to those problems. I think it's well worth half an hour of
>>> watching& listening, and worth sharing.
>>>
>>> http://vimeo.com/43603867
>>
>> THANK YOU Frank, for posting this. I agree 100% with the presentation.
>> I will be sharing this link with the local cycling advocacy organziation
>> in Vancouver, who in recent years has been undoing decades of proper
>> bicyling advocacy, by screaming for separated bike lanes. Trying to get
>> bikes off of the road is the last thing a cycling advocacy org should be
>> doing.
>
> Actually you should look at
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o>. A coherent network of
> properly designed and interconnected bicycle path is what led to the
> Netherlands becoming the leading bicycle-centric country. More cycling,
> fewer fatal accidents.

But, but, but... they don't have SMS's favorite hat style!

> The problem in the U.S. is that the cycle paths are often poorly
> designed and there are large gaps in the system, so it's often safer to
> avoid them entirely. Giving up on the optimal solution may be easier,
> but it's not looking at the big picture, and it will make eventually
> getting to a system like they have in Amsterdam much more difficult.

Getting a system like they have in Amsterdam into a major U.S. city is
approximately impossible. One would first have to flatten any hills.
One would next have to modify the climate to be as mild as Amsterdam's -
rarely below freezing, and August highs only about 70F (21C). One would
have to crunch all traffic generators together, so typical travel
distances were about 5km or less, not the 10+ miles common in the U.S.
One would have to get people out of their single family homes on large
suburban lots, and into tight little houses or apartments inside the
city. One would have to approximately double the price of gasoline, and
make getting a driver's license far more difficult and expensive. One
would have to pass laws presuming a motorist at fault if he injured a
bicyclist or pedestrian.

Oh, and I guess one would have to put in some bike lanes. But what with
all the other necessary changes, you might as well save that step until
the very last.

P.S. In Paris, cyclists confidently shared lanes, or controlled narrow
lanes, on thousands of streets with no special bike markings. Yes,
there are some bike facilities, but plain streets abound, and people
ride everywhere with confidence, as a normal part of traffic.

Learn to do that, and you don't need weird bike facilities. You can
ride everywhere.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[SMS]

It should be pointed out that more and more large metro areas in the
U.S. are trying to move to the Amsterdam model. If you've been to New
York City you can see the progress being made. Still a long way to go,
but the key in getting people out of their cars and onto bicycles is the
Amsterdam model, at least if we want to move beyond getting just cycling
enthusiasts out of their cars.

Even here in Silicon Valley, which is much less dense than Manhattan,
there's been a vast increase in the past few years of the cycling
infrastructure, including many commute routes where many of the most
difficult crossings of surface streets have been eliminated. Still some
gaps, but they're being closed, albeit slowly. Good routes to major
employers are key, and getting to Google, Apple, Intel, Oracle by
bicycle, or at least a combination of train and bicycle, is much less
stressful than in the past thanks to continuing improvements.

[ghostnik11]

First I would like to say thanks to the person who posted the video on Netherlands and the way they changed their roads to incorporate bicycle paths. As someone who lives in NYC, I can say I wish we had what the Netherlands has in terms of bike paths. Over here in NYC we have bike lanes where people live their cars in the bike lane double parking to a park car. You don't know how many times I have had to go into the car lane to get around an illegally parked car in the bike lane because people in NYC especially Brooklyn don't care about others on bicycles. I think this is due to the mentality of people in NYC in general. Due to the hustle and bustle of NYC most people tend to only think of themselves and not others and thats one of the main reason why NYC won't have anything similar to what the Dutch have. For example I sat on a community board meeting in the area of I live in Brooklyn and the topic came up for additional bike lanes that connect to other bike lanes in different parts of Brooklyn and the heads of the community board were outraged. They all said "we don't need more bike lanes (as if we had that many in the community)" they couldn't rationalize that if their is more bike lanes and the community promotes riding bicycles that they can reduce the number of cars on the road and the accidents that results from high number of cars on the road with people always in a rush, clean up the pollution from the cars in the area and promote healthy living.

In order for us to get such bike paths like they have in Netherlands we are going to need for gas to go to 10 dollars a gallon and then have to re-educate people that before their was cars people biked and walked to get where they had to go. You would think as it was in Holland video "where it says their was a economic collapse and a oil collapse" that people here especially in NYC would realize in this economy to cut back more and save money by driving less. Especially in a city that has public transportation 24 hours a day.

[SMS]

On 6/27/2012 7:13 AM, ghostnik11 wrote:

> First I would like to say thanks to the person who posted the video on Netherlands and the way they changed their roads to incorporate bicycle paths. As someone who lives in NYC, I can say I wish we had what the Netherlands has in terms of bike paths. Over here in NYC we have bike lanes where people live their cars in the bike lane double parking to a park car. You don't know how many times I have had to go into the car lane to get around an illegally parked car in the bike lane because people in NYC especially Brooklyn don't care about others on bicycles. I think this is due to the mentality of people in NYC in general. Due to the hustle and bustle of NYC most people tend to only think of themselves and not others and thats one of the main reason why NYC won't have anything similar to what the Dutch have. For example I sat on a community board meeting in the area of I live in Brooklyn and the topic came up for additional bike lanes that connect to other bike lanes in differ
ent parts of Brooklyn and the heads of the community board were outraged. They all said "we don't need more bike lanes (as if we had that many in the community)" they couldn't rationalize that if their is more bike lanes and the community promotes riding bicycles that they can reduce the number of cars on the road and the accidents that results from high number of cars on the road with people always in a rush, clean up the pollution from the cars in the area and promote healthy living.
>
> In order for us to get such bike paths like they have in Netherlands we are going to need for gas to go to 10 dollars a gallon and then have to re-educate people that before their was cars people biked and walked to get where they had to go. You would think as it was in Holland video "where it says their was a economic collapse and a oil collapse" that people here especially in NYC would realize in this economy to cut back more and save money by driving less. Especially in a city that has public transportation 24 hours a day.

I should have been more specific regarding NYC. In Manhattan, they've
made a big effort to enable bicycle commuting with the 32 mile greenway.
While you probably can't remain on the greenway for an entire commute,
it does make most of the commute far safer. I.e. my nephew commuted from
the upper west side down to the lower east side most days (and nights)
for the two years of his medical residency, using the greenway. Other
boroughs should duplicate what Manhattan has done, it's the closest
they're likely to get to anything that encourages non-enthusiasts to
bike in an urban environment.

Maybe Mayor Bloomberg could tax large sodas instead of banning them, and
use the funds to expand the bicycling infrastructure.

The difference in approaches, "vehicular cycling" versus the approach of
a country like the Netherlands, is clear. "Vehicular Cycling" is for
those individuals that would bicycle no matter what the traffic
situation, while building bicycle infrastructure results in large
increases in the number of non-enthusiasts being willing to bicycle.