Lemond on Ferrari
B. Lafferty
Let the attacks begin, LOL!!
Zeno
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/greg-lemond/bravo-to-the-new-generation
>
> Let the attacks begin, LOL!!
The irony is that back when Greg made his miraculous comeback, the
Brian Laffertys of the time were absolutely certain that he had his
own "Dr Ferrari," his immunologist father in law, Dr David Morris,
who was accused of slipping him PEDs under the guise of therapy.
("Iron shots" I think) Maybe they should supoena Kathy & turn the
screws on her til she squeals on her dad. Let get em all!
B. Lafferty
> On Jul 25, 8:07 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/greg-lemond/bravo-to-the-new-generation
>>
>> Let the attacks begin, LOL!!
>
> The irony is that back when Greg made his miraculous comeback, the
> Brian Laffertys of the time were absolutely certain that he had his
> own "Dr Ferrari," his immunologist father in law, Dr David Morris,
> who was accused of slipping him PEDs under the guise of therapy.
> screws on her til she squeals on her dad. Let get em all!
Lemond's father-in-law was not an immunologist. It's more likely that
the "iron shot" had a placebo effect on Lemond. That's doesn't mean he
wasn't using steroids that resulted in his MM diagnosis.
Interesting background info about Ferrari that apparently was never
published here in periodicals like VeloSnooze under John Wilcockson's
reign. Also, Wilcockson was on Nightline Friday night touting the great
Armstrong cancer recovery TdF myth. The older he gets, the more he
looks like a character out of Lord of the Rings.
MyPostingID
And looks are everything, aren't they?
Zeno
Lemond's father in law was an immunologist see
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1139990/2/index.htm
EPO went into production in 1989. Do the math.
Zeno
> EPO went into production in 1989. Do the math.
I especially liked "That night team doctors took blood samples that
revealed that LeMond's white blood cell count was elevated to nearly
twice its normal levels."
Zeno
fragmented text. I am using my phone)
CowPunk
it speed skating, with legs the size of an elephant was a good
indicator he was on the juice. Of course Lemond was still using d-
balls and the Euros had already moved on to EPO so that was that.
Career over. He's probably scared of needles, that's why he quit and
harbors so much anger towards the peloton.
B. Lafferty
math are you talking about?
B. Lafferty
And what do you deduce from that, Sherlock?
B. Lafferty
Again Sherlock, what do you deduce from that?
B. Lafferty
don't recall whether it was from skating and/or cross country skiing.
The latter, probably.
Rik Van Slick
> My recollection of that was he added too much to his upper body. I
> don't recall whether it was from skating and/or cross country skiing.
> The latter, probably.
It was cross country skate skiing. It was the fashionable mode of
winter training for North American roadies in the late 80's & early
90's. Problem was, it added too much upper body bulk, for which Lemond
took a lot a flack from his European team overlords.
Zeno
> > EPO went into production in 1989. Do the math.
>
> My mistake about his specialty. I thought he was an internist. What
> math are you talking about?
have more than the average doctors knowledge of Epo, what it could do
and access to it. Epo was already in general release since 1989. He
gave Greg "Iron Shots" which are normally used to boost red count,
just like epo. They were monitoring his blood.Forget about steroids, a
new miracle drug was there for early adopters. By all accounts, Lemond
turned in a miraculous performance. Brian, as a master of evedence
that should be an easy one.
Betty
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/greg-lemond/bravo-to-the-new-generation
>
> Let the attacks begin, LOL!!
Don't worry they've been fined:
<http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/6279027/Ferrari-Handed-Fine-Results-Stand>
yirgster
You need to quote the context: Lemond was diagnosed (by the father-in-
law) with an infection on the basis of open sores on his feet and so
was given antibiotics the next three days. Maybe this is all bs, but
it needs to be referenced even to say it's bs. Otherwise, it's being
taken out of context.
----------------------------------- from the si article
----------------------------------
Un jour sans, the French call these things—an off day. Every rider's
greatest fear is to have one in the mountains. In a scene that looked
like a wartime evacuation, a helicopter airlifted LeMond from the
mountaintop. "This Tour is far from over," he said before the door
shut and the chopper took off.
For him, alas, it was over. That night team doctors took blood samples
that revealed that LeMond's white blood cell count was elevated to
nearly twice its normal levels. Dr. David Morris, Kathy LeMond's
immunologist father, saw the open sores on his son-in-law's feet and
diagnosed an infection. In a way, the news gave LeMond comfort. "It's
not normal that I should be in such good condition before the race and
so good through the first part of the Tour and then suddenly have such
a bad day," he said.
Indeed, antibiotics helped tide LeMond through the three flat stages
before the Alps.
Zeno
would do who was administering epo
Anton Berlin
what was actually killing the EPO using cyclists. (thick blood)
Most all thought that the higher the crit the better.
Lemond was most likely a booster and maybe a corticosteroid user.
B. Lafferty
Very week argument on your part. Now tell me why he didn't win in 1991
with EPO if he was so ahead of the curve.
Zeno
> > that should be an easy one.
>
> Very week argument on your part. Now tell me why he didn't win in 1991
> with EPO if he was so ahead of the curve.
Because there is no factual testimony that he was getting "iron shots"
in 1991, before he made his miraculous comeback in 1992. There is no
doubt he did get them in 1992. And of course an immunologist would
know that EPO would accomplish the same ends as an old cure like iron,
but be an order of magnitude more efficacious. It's also possible
that Greg didn't even know what he was getting in those injections.
Brian, you are being very hypocritical about your standard of evidence
here to protect one of your star witnesses. If I had presented the
same info, but it was about LA in the 90s and not Greg, I have
absolutely no doubt you would gleefully incorporate it into your case
against Armstrong, no questions asked. Call for the release of all Dr.
Morris's records, including every prescription he ever wrote, the
grilling of Kathy & Gregg's medical team from 1992 etc. The
"evidence" I have presented more than meets the Lafferty criteria.
There is no real proof that Greg was a doper and I wouldn't call him
one, but it's easy to speculate, which you do all the time about LA
and treat it as fact.
My original point in this thread was and is that Greg should know
better than to throw around circumstantial guilt-by-association
accusations about doping doctors. Hoisted by his own petard.
B. Lafferty
Lemond reportedly received the iron injection after the 1989 Giro
d'Italia. That iron injection was reported extensively in the press in
1989. At the time people noted that an iron injection for anemia would
not raise his hemoglobin level much at all by the time the Tour de
France came around a few weeks later.
>
> Brian, you are being very hypocritical about your standard of evidence
> here to protect one of your star witnesses. If I had presented the
> same info, but it was about LA in the 90s and not Greg, I have
> absolutely no doubt you would gleefully incorporate it into your case
> against Armstrong, no questions asked. Call for the release of all Dr.
> Morris's records, including every prescription he ever wrote, the
> grilling of Kathy& Gregg's medical team from 1992 etc. The
> "evidence" I have presented more than meets the Lafferty criteria.
The same info??!! Tell me how many of Lemond's former teammates and
other associates have said Lemond was doping. Why are you focused on
1992 when Lemond was not performing well at all and retired the next
year? You aren't making much, if any, sense.
>
> There is no real proof that Greg was a doper and I wouldn't call him
> one, but it's easy to speculate, which you do all the time about LA
> and treat it as fact.
>
> My original point in this thread was and is that Greg should know
> better than to throw around circumstantial guilt-by-association
> accusations about doping doctors. Hoisted by his own petard.
If the association with Ferrari is so illogically bogus, why was
Armstrong so upset that it became public knowledge and that Lemond
commented negatively on the association?
The only indicator that Lemond may have doped lies in the etiology of
his mitochondrial myopathy--either it's genetic or steroid based from
what I've read in standard internal medicine texts. Contrary to your
assertions, I've discussed Lemond's possible steroid abuse numerous
times here at rbr.
Anton Berlin
example ) the Dutch 100k TT members (2 of them) dying in their sleep
and EPO.
It was in Velonews and Winning. Lemond most likely avoided EPO and
went with tried and true boosting and corticosteroids.
He's old school - Lance probably combo-d these and then skirted when
he could
Used corticosteroids until the poistive 'saddle sore' test
Used EPO then went back to boosting when the test came
Agent X ?
The testosterone protocol described by Landis.
Is Landis proof enough that the guy on top of the podium goes to a
shaggy ass fuck in a t-shirt without dope? Don't forget the numerous
back of the pack placings in the last few years.
--D-y
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/greg-lemond/bravo-to-the-new-generation
>
> Let the attacks begin, LOL!!
Wow. Greg sank to new lows of self-righteous whiner ickyness with that
one.
"I'm so pure and moral (he meant "chickenshit") that if I were faced
with a FEDERAL INVESTIGATION, I certainly couldn't function, and that
proves that Lance Armstrong is evil incarnate".
Plus the obvious coverup of the smashed hopes that Lance would be
arrested and taken in for extremely traumatic (confusing the
"punishment phase" with the "investigation phase" as the French are
reported to do) "questioning" the nanosecond he stepped foot into
France. (Duh) "This is what I meant". Right, Greg.
Brian, this is what *I* meant when I said Lance is being "set up"--
Greg's word will be golden, no matter what the truth of his doping/not
doping during his career might be. I know this is especially delicious
to you.
So, Greg, in spite of the fact that he fits the Doper Profile six ways
from Sunday, sees the Fall of Lance Armstrong.
Does he think he's gonna get a new bicycle endorsement out of this, is
that the deal? And people will forget Seven in a Row After Cancer?
Lots of ways to sell your soul, 'ol Ned isn't particular on that
score. Like Brian Lafferty, kinda.
--D-y
Michael Press
<5984b571-aaa7-40a1...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
> Plus the obvious coverup of the smashed hopes that Lance would be
> arrested and taken in for extremely traumatic (confusing the
> "punishment phase" with the "investigation phase" as the French are
> reported to do) "questioning" the nanosecond he stepped foot into
> France. (Duh) "This is what I meant". Right, Greg.
Instead, on his visit to the tour
the first one President Sarkozy greets
is Armstrong.
--
Michael Press
Betty
> Instead, on his visit to the tour
> the first one President Sarkozy greets
> is Armstrong.
Perhaps they're both getting kickbacks from Madame L'Oreal.
--D-y
> In article
> <5984b571-aaa7-40a1-80ea-d4a7762b1...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
>
> --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> > Plus the obvious coverup of the smashed hopes that Lance would be
> > arrested and taken in for extremely traumatic (confusing the
> > "punishment phase" with the "investigation phase" as the French are
> > reported to do) "questioning" the nanosecond he stepped foot into
> > France. (Duh) "This is what I meant". Right, Greg.
>
> Instead, on his visit to the tour
> the first one President Sarkozy greets
> is Armstrong.
>
> --
> Michael Press
Yeah, don't forget, "the French hate Lance Armstrong". Well, some of
the French hate him, anyhow!
--D-y