EuroFred's - The Continent is not Immune!

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jerry in vermont

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Nov 22, 2005, 6:03:22 PM11/22/05
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need I say more...
Ok, I have to say more - the definitive Fred, its universal and
transcends language.

http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/index.htm

J

Ewoud Dronkert

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Nov 22, 2005, 6:25:15 PM11/22/05
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jerry in vermont wrote:


You linked the frame. I'm wondering which photo you meant. Perhaps:
http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0195.htm

Hey,
http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0192.htm

--
E. Dronkert

Me

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Nov 22, 2005, 6:35:08 PM11/22/05
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RonSonic

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Nov 22, 2005, 8:06:41 PM11/22/05
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On 22 Nov 2005 15:03:22 -0800, "jerry in vermont" <engenu...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>need I say more...

My goodness, you're just posting that so I can consider myself a sleek, fast,
cyclocrossing animal.

Ron

Ryan Cousineau

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Nov 22, 2005, 10:44:59 PM11/22/05
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In article <m2a7o1tne9o3fiaq2...@4ax.com>,
Ewoud Dronkert <firs...@lastname.net.invalid> wrote:

No, I'm pretty sure it's this one:

http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0004.htm

Eurofatty!

--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ed Sullivan

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Nov 23, 2005, 8:52:42 AM11/23/05
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Your premise is wrong. Freds don't race, but they do ride fancy racing
bikes.


Thanks,

Ed

Jim Flom

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Nov 23, 2005, 10:21:57 AM11/23/05
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"Ryan Cousineau" <rcou...@sfu.ca> wrote in message
news:rcousine-791271...@news.telus.net...

> In article <m2a7o1tne9o3fiaq2...@4ax.com>,
> Ewoud Dronkert <firs...@lastname.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> jerry in vermont wrote:
>>
>> > need I say more...
>> > Ok, I have to say more - the definitive Fred, its universal and
>> > transcends language.
>> >
>> > http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/index.htm
>>
>>
>> You linked the frame. I'm wondering which photo you meant. Perhaps:
>> http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0195.htm
>>
>> Hey,
>> http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0192.htm
>
> No, I'm pretty sure it's this one:
>
> http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0004.htm
>
> Eurofatty!

I'm with Ryan. And as far as the chickie goes, how is it that anything
female on two wheels suddenly vaults into hottie status?


Carl Sundquist

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Nov 23, 2005, 2:24:48 PM11/23/05
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"Jim Flom" <jim...@telus.net.uk.edu> wrote in message

>
> I'm with Ryan. And as far as the chickie goes, how is it that anything
> female on two wheels suddenly vaults into hottie status?

Tammy Thomas?

Oh wait. You said female.


Carl Sundquist

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Nov 23, 2005, 2:25:59 PM11/23/05
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"Ed Sullivan" <really...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >

>
> Your premise is wrong. Freds don't race, but they do ride fancy racing
> bikes.
>

Actually, they do. You've never had some unknown guy chase you down on a
climb or training ride?


jerry in vermont

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Nov 23, 2005, 7:10:36 PM11/23/05
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Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

> You linked the frame. I'm wondering which photo you meant. Perhaps:
> http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0195.htm
>


as my 4 year old would say...whoopsy...

http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/images/DSC_0080.jpg

NOW do you must see that its obvious. I admit, there are a couple
choices but, IMHO, this one takes it.

J

John Forrest Tomlinson

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Nov 23, 2005, 7:43:41 PM11/23/05
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On 23 Nov 2005 16:10:36 -0800, "jerry in vermont"
<engenu...@hotmail.com> wrote:

At least he's out riding, and seems to be trying cross on his road
bike.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
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Carl Sundquist

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Nov 23, 2005, 7:54:05 PM11/23/05
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"jerry in vermont" <engenu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

The Fred in me is asking what kind of front wheel is he using? It looks like
a 12 spoke Spinergy.


RonSonic

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Nov 23, 2005, 8:33:53 PM11/23/05
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They just do.

Ron

RonSonic

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Nov 23, 2005, 8:44:23 PM11/23/05
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The worst ride of my life. It was a Monday, I'd just fried my legs and lungs
saturday and sunday and I'm doing an easy road loop out and across a rail to
trail park and then back another way and there's this guy with foamy-cushion
drop handlebars and and those brake lever extensions in a white t-shirt and
khaki shorts. Fred was strong. I had to watch a guy in white socks halfway up
his calf ride away from me.

Ron

Ryan Cousineau

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Nov 23, 2005, 11:04:32 PM11/23/05
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In article <453ao1dqmmvg15e5q...@4ax.com>,

John Forrest Tomlinson <usenet...@jt10000.com> wrote:

> On 23 Nov 2005 16:10:36 -0800, "jerry in vermont"
> <engenu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> >
> >> You linked the frame. I'm wondering which photo you meant. Perhaps:
> >> http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0195.htm
> >>
> >
> >
> >as my 4 year old would say...whoopsy...
> >
> >http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/images/DSC_0080.jpg
> >
> >NOW do you must see that its obvious. I admit, there are a couple
> >choices but, IMHO, this one takes it.
>
> At least he's out riding, and seems to be trying cross on his road
> bike.
>
> JT

Look JT: I'm all for the idea that mere participation is a great goal
for lots of cyclists. I even got my father restarted on bike commuting a
few years ago.

But my father never wore that outfit.

The next time "Chart" Chung extols the virtues of the Euro aesthetic or
lifestyle, I'm pulling this photo out of my bookmarks and posting it in
my reply.

I know _mountain bikers_ who wouldn't leave the house looking that bad.
And SPDs on a nice vintage Pinarello...oh dear.

This is where I draw the line,

b...@mambo.ucolick.org

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Nov 24, 2005, 1:38:01 AM11/24/05
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Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> The next time "Chart" Chung extols the virtues of the Euro aesthetic or
> lifestyle, I'm pulling this photo out of my bookmarks and posting it in
> my reply.
>
> I know _mountain bikers_ who wouldn't leave the house looking that bad.
> And SPDs on a nice vintage Pinarello...oh dear.
>
> This is where I draw the line,

On the other hand,

http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0190.htm

I would say something catty except for about three
or four things:

- This guy looks like he's having fun
- He's probably been doing this for years and would
ride me into the ground while pedaling with one leg
- I dig the jacket
- He has MAD STYLE all the way from the jacket club logo
through the brake lever position down to racing on
those pedals. I don't love the shades, but most cycling
sunglasses are difficult to pull off even if you're a
5% bodyfat freakazoid.

Final Score: Euro-Fred seven, RBR-Twerp-me nil.

Ewoud Dronkert

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Nov 24, 2005, 5:37:41 AM11/24/05
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jerry in vermont wrote:
> http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/images/DSC_0080.jpg
>
> NOW do you must see that its obvious. I admit, there are a couple
> choices but, IMHO, this one takes it.

I don't get it at all. In my mind a fred is a poser, not a real racer but
acting like one on training rides and wearing or riding things not
befitting his status. This guy wears his club jersey, a noname longsleeve,
a noname helmet, noname (speedskating) tights and rides an old(?) steel
frame. Because today's club event includes a spot of grass land en route,
he switched his regular pedals and shoes for mtb/spd versions. On top of
that, he is busy saving his fellow riders from that nasty loose dog coming
up on his left.

You may criticize the colour scheme of his chosen outfit, but really, this
is a bike path not a runway.

--
E. Dronkert

TM

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Nov 24, 2005, 7:41:27 AM11/24/05
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"Ewoud Dronkert" <firs...@lastname.net.invalid> wrote in >

> You may criticize the colour scheme of his chosen outfit, but really, this
> is a bike path not a runway.
>

The truth is the average person cannot tell the difference between this guy
and the op on a bike - we all look the same to them.

This whole thread is like a conversation about virtue in a whore house... a
little ironic, but mostly sad.


h squared

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Nov 24, 2005, 10:07:54 AM11/24/05
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b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> http://www.harfoto.nl/Adobe%2005-06%20vossenjacht%2005/pages/DSC_0190.htm


> Final Score: Euro-Fred seven, RBR-Twerp-me nil.

yep, i hope some day to upgrade to a bike like that one. and even if the
bike i eventually get doesn't have platform pedals to start with, i bet
i'll change them over to pp's...

heatherfred


Kyle Legate

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Nov 24, 2005, 5:01:20 PM11/24/05
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Curtis L. Russell

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Nov 24, 2005, 6:30:26 PM11/24/05
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On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:37:41 +0100, Ewoud Dronkert
<firs...@lastname.net.invalid> wrote:

>I don't get it at all. In my mind a fred is a poser, not a real racer but
>acting like one on training rides and wearing or riding things not
>befitting his status.

Mostly Freds are anti-posers. Unshaved legs, cut-offs, maybe old
Lyotard pedals because they still work. And since they ride maybe
every day and almost to every where, some will outride the posers on
the new bikes AFTER riding 20 miles to the ride and holding back
because they're riding the 20 miles home.

Maybe different elsewhere, but around here a Fred and a poser are from
different planets.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Ewoud Dronkert

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Nov 24, 2005, 7:03:02 PM11/24/05
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Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> Maybe different elsewhere, but around here a Fred and a poser are from
> different planets.

In my experience, over here, the poser is laughed at and pushed out of the
echelon. He's fortunate that not many people have frame pumps anymore.
Your fred maybe looks like he just got started in cycling but that's fine;
he's just another respected group rider (ie. like for everybody else, no
waiting when he flats). Legs talk. There's no special word for his kind of
rider. My idea about the fred concept I got from rbr. Apparently I got it
wrong, sorry for the confusion.

--
E. Dronkert

RonSonic

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Nov 24, 2005, 7:21:32 PM11/24/05
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Uh, mostly.

Ron

jerry in vermont

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Nov 24, 2005, 8:14:20 PM11/24/05
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I am with Curtis. The american fred has hairy legs, white tube socks
mid calf (I think lance and his tall socks are wicked fredly - so
wrong), smells TERRIBLE, rides to work 40 miles a day, all winter, does
not have "cycling specific" glasses, but must certainly has
prescription glasses, has the oldest helmet in existence, and probably
a rusty bike, and his clothes absolutely cannot match.

The fred is the smelly guy you come up on during your little group
ride, and try to drop cause his old rancid clothes smell so bad (or is
it the neoprene socks?) but CAN'T goddamnit.

The poser is the guy on the colnago with the chubby but shaved legs who
you blast by on your MTB riding to the trail.

J

Honorary PhD in Fredly Studies from University of Colorado

b...@mambo.ucolick.org

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Nov 24, 2005, 11:08:56 PM11/24/05
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Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> Ewoud Dronkert <firs...@lastname.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >I don't get it at all. In my mind a fred is a poser, not a real racer but
> >acting like one on training rides and wearing or riding things not
> >befitting his status.
>
> Mostly Freds are anti-posers. Unshaved legs, cut-offs, maybe old
> Lyotard pedals because they still work. And since they ride maybe
> every day and almost to every where, some will outride the posers on
> the new bikes AFTER riding 20 miles to the ride and holding back
> because they're riding the 20 miles home.
>
> Maybe different elsewhere, but around here a Fred and a poser are from
> different planets.

Ewoud's definition is more RBR-compliant:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/afd0e321f4181faa

Cutoffs and crew socks may be functional for riding to work,
ergo not "stupid stuff" by the Verheul definition. The original
post was written in response to some dude who wanted to buy
$1000 deep dish carbon wheels for riding hilly centuries.

I may be an inexpert witness because I've never actually
heard a rider use the word "Fred" in real life.

Ben
I have a pair of Lyotard pedals around here somewhere ...

p.s.
Anybody who tries to come up and race you while you're out
for a ride is behaving Fredly regardless of their bike type
or sock length. My favorite example of this was when I had
a commute up a big hill. Guys would catch up, suck wheel
all the way up the hill, then sprint around me at the top.
I would think "Jeez, I'm riding to work with a fucking
pannier on, what does attacking me on a hill accomplish?"
Nearly all offenders were older guys in cycling gear riding
MTBs up to ride in the woods, FWIW.

Me

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Nov 25, 2005, 12:21:04 AM11/25/05
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On 11/24/05 8:08 PM, in article
1132891736.3...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
"b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:

What works the best is when you have some fred suckin your wheel while you
are just commuting to work or doing an LSD ride is to blow your nose! You
just say "I did not know anyone was back there!"

Donald Munro

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Nov 25, 2005, 2:49:41 AM11/25/05
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jerry in vermont wrote:

> I am with Curtis. The american fred has hairy legs, white tube socks
> mid calf (I think lance and his tall socks are wicked fredly - so
> wrong), smells TERRIBLE, rides to work 40 miles a day, all winter, does
> not have "cycling specific" glasses, but must certainly has
> prescription glasses, has the oldest helmet in existence, and probably
> a rusty bike, and his clothes absolutely cannot match.

Americans don't appear to be very tolerant of unconventional people.

Marty

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Nov 25, 2005, 4:01:17 AM11/25/05
to

> jerry in vermont wrote:
>
>
>>I am with Curtis. The american fred has hairy legs, white tube socks
>>mid calf (I think lance and his tall socks are wicked fredly - so
>>wrong), smells TERRIBLE, rides to work 40 miles a day, all winter, does
>>not have "cycling specific" glasses, but must certainly has
>>prescription glasses, has the oldest helmet in existence, and probably
>>a rusty bike, and his clothes absolutely cannot match.
>
>

>

That sounds like my mental image of Sheldon, (except for the smell of
course.)

Marty

Ewoud Dronkert

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Nov 25, 2005, 4:53:50 AM11/25/05
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Me wrote:

> bjw wrote:
>> Anybody who tries to come up and race you while you're out
>> for a ride is behaving Fredly regardless of their bike type
>> or sock length. My favorite example of this was when I had
>> a commute up a big hill. Guys would catch up, suck wheel
>> all the way up the hill, then sprint around me at the top.
>> I would think "Jeez, I'm riding to work with a fucking
>> pannier on, what does attacking me on a hill accomplish?"
>> Nearly all offenders were older guys in cycling gear riding
>> MTBs up to ride in the woods, FWIW.
>
> What works the best is when you have some fred suckin your wheel while you
> are just commuting to work or doing an LSD ride is to blow your nose! You
> just say "I did not know anyone was back there!"

He doesn't mind the fact that they're there, or even the fact that they
sprint past, I think. What is fredly is that they are delusional in
thinking it was a race.

Actually what really happens is, I think Ben might be channeling his
flight or fight stress (deep down he *does* want to race) into anger and
misguided feelings of superiority. Hey, that fred did beat him up a hill.

--
E. Dronkert

Curtis L. Russell

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Nov 25, 2005, 7:55:59 AM11/25/05
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Depends on which direction the wind's blowing.

Curtis L. Russell

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Nov 25, 2005, 7:59:20 AM11/25/05
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On 24 Nov 2005 20:08:56 -0800, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org"
<b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:

>Anybody who tries to come up and race you while you're out
>for a ride is behaving Fredly regardless of their bike type
>or sock length. My favorite example of this was when I had
>a commute up a big hill. Guys would catch up, suck wheel
>all the way up the hill, then sprint around me at the top.
>I would think "Jeez, I'm riding to work with a fucking
>pannier on, what does attacking me on a hill accomplish?"
>Nearly all offenders were older guys in cycling gear riding
>MTBs up to ride in the woods, FWIW.

Same behavior, different groups, different motives. The freds do it
because they find racers as annoying as racers find freds, and they
know they have you in a moment of weakness. They know the truth and
are taking advantage of it.

The poser really, really thinks he's racing you, and winning.

dusto...@mac.com

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Nov 25, 2005, 9:39:31 AM11/25/05
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Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> My idea about the fred concept I got from rbr. Apparently I got it
> wrong, sorry for the confusion.

I don't know if I have it "right" either (getting it right =
non-fredly?) but the first time I heard the term, it was "triathafred",
and referred to the Magnificent Sleeveless (posing; posers) who refused
to learn group riding skills but still thought they were superior to
those who knew a whole bunch more than they did about riding bicycles.

I should put something in here about putting large groups of
competitors together and penalizing them for drafting: Fred-ly, fredly,
fredly. --D-y

b...@mambo.ucolick.org

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Nov 26, 2005, 2:06:50 AM11/26/05
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Curtis L. Russell wrote:

> >or sock length. My favorite example of this was when I had
> >a commute up a big hill. Guys would catch up, suck wheel
> >all the way up the hill, then sprint around me at the top.
> >I would think "Jeez, I'm riding to work with a fucking
> >pannier on, what does attacking me on a hill accomplish?"
> >Nearly all offenders were older guys in cycling gear riding
> >MTBs up to ride in the woods, FWIW.
>
> Same behavior, different groups, different motives. The freds do it
> because they find racers as annoying as racers find freds, and they
> know they have you in a moment of weakness. They know the truth and
> are taking advantage of it.
>
> The poser really, really thinks he's racing you, and winning.

Yeah, but how would a fred know to attack me as
a racer, on my commute, with a touring bike and a
pannier, and quite possibly an old wool jersey?
At that moment, _I'm_ the poser, posing as a Fred.

Ben
faking it all this time

P.S. Anyway, I think it's all macho. Only guys do this.
The Velo Bella chicks were always very friendly as
they rode away leaving me in the dust ...

Howard Kveck

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Nov 26, 2005, 3:16:44 AM11/26/05
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In article <1132988810.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:

> Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>
> > >or sock length. My favorite example of this was when I had
> > >a commute up a big hill. Guys would catch up, suck wheel
> > >all the way up the hill, then sprint around me at the top.
> > >I would think "Jeez, I'm riding to work with a fucking
> > >pannier on, what does attacking me on a hill accomplish?"
> > >Nearly all offenders were older guys in cycling gear riding
> > >MTBs up to ride in the woods, FWIW.
> >
> > Same behavior, different groups, different motives. The freds do it
> > because they find racers as annoying as racers find freds, and they
> > know they have you in a moment of weakness. They know the truth and
> > are taking advantage of it.
> >
> > The poser really, really thinks he's racing you, and winning.
>
> Yeah, but how would a fred know to attack me as
> a racer, on my commute, with a touring bike and a
> pannier, and quite possibly an old wool jersey?
> At that moment, _I'm_ the poser, posing as a Fred.

Having the pannier and a touring bike doesn't make you a Fred, although there
surely are Freds riding that set up. The guys who attacked you like that might
just see everyone ahead of him as a person to chase and attack. Last weekend, I
caught and rode by a guy who immediately sped up and caught my wheel. About 100
meters from the top of a rise in the road, he stands up and steams by. I caught
him a little while later, and this repeated twice more until he turned off to go
up Page Mill. It didn't bother me, though, as it gave me a chance to work hard
to stay in front once I knew what was going to happen (the reverse
greyhounds/rabbit thing), and a chance to work hard to try to stay with him once
he went by (HA!). I didn't consider it as a race, just some free motivating.

What do you call a guy who's only had a bike for a few weeks and asks where
you rode that weekend, then informs you that "you went the wrong way on that
ride," because he saw a description of the Portola loop on the Chain Reaction
site?

> Ben
> faking it all this time
>
> P.S. Anyway, I think it's all macho. Only guys do this.
> The Velo Bella chicks were always very friendly as
> they rode away leaving me in the dust ...

Friendly and fit is good.

--
tanx,
Howard

The sheriff is near...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

fast

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Nov 26, 2005, 6:04:23 AM11/26/05
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Marty wrote:
> That sounds like my mental image

Marty wrote:
> Caution- Rider may fall without warning

and we all hope this is you little marty wallace boy you fucken asshole

and you hit your head on a rock and don't wake up. more on little
boy marty wallace

That's because the poster derrick <domin...@layla.com is Marty Wallace
the layla.com is short for i have not got layed by la who is marty's
DOG in a long time. You can find out more about him here and this
will remind you of Marty Wallace


http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1005/270663.html
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/browse_thread/thread/2c...

http://groups.google.com/group/aus.bicycle/browse_thread/thread/346cf...

cops said *67 is not going help Marty Wallace m...@geo.net.au who
is a who is a Janitor at the Muja Power Station is leaving cow,
sex sounds and words like fuck,dick,suck,pussy,your dickhead,shit,
gay,ass,fuck you,now,ANIMAL,SEX,balls,hair and alot of other words
i don't want to post BECAUSE I AM A CHRISTIAN. on my cell voice mail &
ans. machine same thing and sometimes he just calls and lets the phone
ring 2 times and hangs up from this # 61897342316 and from this #
616045507000 Collie River Valley Marathon Relay,C/o Healthy Body
Care,26 B Steere St, Collie, 6225. & Muja Power Station. and posting
from both places.

Bill C

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Nov 26, 2005, 2:46:01 PM11/26/05
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I think this pretty much sums it up:
Will Rogers:
Common sense ain't common.

Bill C

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