Lemond Subpoenaed--the Trek Connection
B. Lafferty
B. Lafferty
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/sports/cycling/17landis.html?_r=1&ref=sports
B. Lafferty
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
Armstrong's representatives did not immediately respond to requests for
comment about the LeMond subpoena. Armstrong has been struggling this
month in what he says is his final Tour de France. He has denied doping,
most recently in the wake of vivid accusations from his former teammate,
Floyd Landis. Trek spokesman Bill Mashek told the News that the company
is "fully cooperating with the government's request."
RicodJour
Three posts in 15 minutes, on your obsession, regarding something any
idiot, including you, knew was coming a long time ago. I spend about
five minutes a day having any concern for the LANCE situation. You?
LANCE owns you and is living rent free in your head. Wot a maroon.
Maybe you should start your own Twitter feed. I mean where else would
people be able to find the information that is on every news source
online and off?
R
Scott
I personally find Laff@me's incessant posting of links w/out analysis
or commentary very helpful... ROTFLMAO!
B. Lafferty
have any substantive comments on the articles. How about a substantive
comment on the Washington Post article from yesterday. The Lance
acolytes are rather silent on that article.
B. Lafferty
:-)
Davey Crockett
| http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
Thanks for the updates Brian
They are most welcome
--
Arnold Schwarzenegger has ordered California State Controller John
Chiang to reduce state worker pay for July to the federal minimum
allowed by law -- $7.25 an hour for most state workers .
B. Lafferty
> "B. Lafferty" a écrit profondement:
>
> | http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
>
> Thanks for the updates Brian
>
> They are most welcome
>
RicodJour
> On 7/17/2010 8:44 AM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> > On Jul 17, 8:29 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> On 7/17/2010 8:15 AM, B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
>
> >> Armstrong's representatives did not immediately respond to requests for
> >> comment about the LeMond subpoena. Armstrong has been struggling this
> >> month in what he says is his final Tour de France. He has denied doping,
> >> most recently in the wake of vivid accusations from his former teammate,
> >> Floyd Landis. Trek spokesman Bill Mashek told the News that the company
> >> is "fully cooperating with the government's request."
>
> >>http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/07/16/2010-07-16_l...
>
> > Three posts in 15 minutes, on your obsession, regarding something any
> > idiot, including you, knew was coming a long time ago. I spend about
> > five minutes a day having any concern for the LANCE situation. You?
> > LANCE owns you and is living rent free in your head. Wot a maroon.
>
> > Maybe you should start your own Twitter feed. I mean where else would
> > people be able to find the information that is on every news source
> > online and off?
>
>
> have any substantive comments on the articles. How about a substantive
> comment on the Washington Post article from yesterday. The Lance
> acolytes are rather silent on that article.
Well, gee, Sparky, I choose to not give a rat's ass until something
interesting develops. It's like fast forwarding through most of a
boring flat stage and just slowing down to watch the crashes. If I
were obsessed with it, I wouldn't be able to fast forward and get on
with something more interesting. Like my own life, for instance.
I feel for you, bro.
R
B. Lafferty
--D-y
Go ahead and offer your own "substantive comment", Brian.
Otherwise, it's hard to tell what you're thinking.
(<g>)
I'm waiting for that one good stage in the Pyrenees, myself.
He looked scared when the Floyd stuff first broke. He doesn't look
scared anymore, at all.
Finally had a flat at the wrong time, a crash at the wrong time. Looks
to me like he's handling it with a lot of class.
Don't forget, Brian, they were all doping, and, aside from personal
hatred and vendetta, on that basis, the worst thing he did was win
races while doing what everyone else was doing too, except he did it
better. That's one of the things that really bothers you, obviously.
Thanks for the ticker tape; I know you spend hours every day raking
and reporting, btw.
Gosh, does Greg get to bring those handwritten, after-the-fact (and
after consultation with his lovely wife) notes, supposedly recording
what Lance said on the telephone, to a grand jury and have them
sanctified as evidence for The Inquisition?
Let's see here: <http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html>
"Unable to hold jobs for any length of time"
"Seek out situations where their work is admired and rewarded"
Sound like any prosecutors with last names starting with N you can
think of?
--D-y
RicodJour
> "B. Lafferty" a écrit profondement:
>
> |http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
>
> Thanks for the updates Brian
>
> They are most welcome
I am surprised that you are unable to find Cycling News, The New York
Times, and the Wall Street Journal on your own. They have rather a
large presence on the intertubes, and, at least for the last two, you
can most likely find them at your local newsstand or library, pretty
much anywhere you are. Even Goliath* could do it.
Aren't you also the guy that is all up-in-arms about people being
spoon-fed? Why does Brian spoon-feeding you this pablum not trigger
the outrage? Is it simply because you agree with his opinion/
obsession? Sheesh. No one's pure any more.
R
* Requisite obscure children's TV show reference.
B. Lafferty
The Ball connection is explained pretty well, don't you think? More
riders are talking than was thought. I disagree with the problem with
the five year S of L, but prosecutors are known to play mind games to
make target think they are partly off the hook.
>
> I'm waiting for that one good stage in the Pyrenees, myself.
> He looked scared when the Floyd stuff first broke. He doesn't look
> scared anymore, at all.
>
> Finally had a flat at the wrong time, a crash at the wrong time. Looks
> to me like he's handling it with a lot of class.
> Don't forget, Brian, they were all doping, and, aside from personal
> hatred and vendetta, on that basis, the worst thing he did was win
> races while doing what everyone else was doing too, except he did it
> better. That's one of the things that really bothers you, obviously.
I disagree with your attitude toward cheating and the lies and hypocrisy
surrounding cheating. Just because everyone is doing doesn't make it
right or OK to do.
>
> Thanks for the ticker tape; I know you spend hours every day raking
> and reporting, btw.
>
> Gosh, does Greg get to bring those handwritten, after-the-fact (and
> after consultation with his lovely wife) notes, supposedly recording
> what Lance said on the telephone, to a grand jury and have them
> sanctified as evidence for The Inquisition?
Your presumptions are showing. The Grand Jury subpoena calls for the
production of all documents from the Trek litigation and anything else
Lemond has. We don't know all that he has. And yes, certain
contemporaneous notes and memoranda can be probative and are often
admissible at trial.
>
> Let's see here:<http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html>
> "Unable to hold jobs for any length of time"
> "Seek out situations where their work is admired and rewarded"
>
> Sound like any prosecutors with last names starting with N you can
> think of?
Novitsky is NOT a prosecutor. He's an investigator. The prosecutor
assigned to the case is Doug Miller. "M" is close to "N" in the
alphabet, but they are different letters. ;-)
What's interesting to me is that Novitsky has been staying pretty much
out of the public eye in this investigation. Miller is probably keeping
him on a short leash for this investigation so that people will bark up
the wrong tree like you're doing. Arf! Arf!
> --D-y
Anton Berlin
> acolytes are rather silent on that article.
They are choking on the scrotum hairs of truth.
Ben Trovato
Davey stopped going to newstands after Der Stuermer ceased
publication...
--D-y
> The Ball connection is explained pretty well, don't you think?
Didn't read it.
> More
> riders are talking than was thought. I disagree with the problem with
> the five year S of L, but prosecutors are known to play mind games to
> make target think they are partly off the hook.
Prosecutors do all kinds of bad things all the time in order to get
convictions. How many murderers, for instance, have been found to be
wrongfully convicted after *real* DNA evidence was brought into the
light of day?
> I disagree with your attitude toward cheating and the lies and hypocrisy
> surrounding cheating. Just because everyone is doing doesn't make it
> right or OK to do.
I think you're jumping in a little late, so to speak, IRT my
"attitude". As I've said often here, my attitude starts with "Lead us
not into temptation", meaning make rules that can be fairly and evenly
enforced on the day. How easy it is for the Pounds of the world to cop
a phony moralistic stance for the purpose of selling sport to
corporate sponsors. Brandy and cigars for the "cops", who in my book
are worse cheaters than the athletes who dope.
As a competitive athlete, if the guy next to you can juice and get
away with it, you can either keep up or eat shit. Whether you agree or
not, that's not much of a "choice".
Don't you find it somewhat disgustingly ironic that Tommy Simpson died
not from "drugs" but from lack of water-- due to bad rules? IOW, he
could get amphetamines, alcohol, "whatever" easier than the water that
would have prevented his unnecessary death, which then brought about
the "dope scare" we are still living with to this day? I mean, were
"the rules" changed IRT getting water with the same sense of urgency
that "drugs" were attacked?
> Your presumptions are showing. The Grand Jury subpoena calls for the
> production of all documents from the Trek litigation and anything else
> Lemond has. We don't know all that he has. And yes, certain
> contemporaneous notes and memoranda can be probative and are often
> admissible at trial.
The issue is whether Greg and Kathy can be believed, short of a well-
examined recording of Lance's voice saying the things they said he
said.
The deck is being stacked against Lance at this point (I know you're
rejoicing).
> Novitsky is NOT a prosecutor. He's an investigator. The prosecutor
> assigned to the case is Doug Miller. "M" is close to "N" in the
> alphabet, but they are different letters. ;-)
That's right, he used to be a prosecutor but due to his over-reaching
shenanigans (as diagnosed in the DSM) he isn't one of those any more,
and now he's an "investigator"-- the position where his work can be
admired and rewarded, and he can get away with a lot more crap than he
could as a real prosecutor.
> What's interesting to me is that Novitsky has been staying pretty much
> out of the public eye in this investigation. Miller is probably keeping
> him on a short leash for this investigation so that people will bark up
> the wrong tree like you're doing. Arf! Arf!
Mad dog on a short leash. Maniacal hatred of Barry Bonds a well-
documented part of his past. Wow, just what we need working for us,
psychos enforcing the law!
"Bad cops, bad cops-- what you gonna do?
Bad cops, bad cops-- what ya gonna do when they come for you?
Bad cops!"
(did Novitsky give the evidence back yet like the judge ordered? I bet
not. Woof woof!)
--D-y
Jimmy July
Since the truth is clean shaven, this can only mean that you've been
fellating the wrong thing.
B. Lafferty
> On Jul 17, 9:30 am, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> The Ball connection is explained pretty well, don't you think?
>
> Didn't read it.
>> More
>> riders are talking than was thought. I disagree with the problem with
>> the five year S of L, but prosecutors are known to play mind games to
>> make target think they are partly off the hook.
>
> Prosecutors do all kinds of bad things all the time in order to get
> convictions. How many murderers, for instance, have been found to be
> wrongfully convicted after *real* DNA evidence was brought into the
> light of day?
Bad is a relative term here. As long as it's within the bounds of the
law, it's OK. Just like Herman can blow smoke for Armstrong as long as
it's within the bounds of the law.
To answer your question, not all that high a percentage. My guess is
that 99% percent of those convicted at trial are guilty. The few that
are not argue well for not having a death penalty.
>
>
>> I disagree with your attitude toward cheating and the lies and hypocrisy
>> surrounding cheating. Just because everyone is doing doesn't make it
>> right or OK to do.
>
> I think you're jumping in a little late, so to speak, IRT my
> "attitude". As I've said often here, my attitude starts with "Lead us
> not into temptation", meaning make rules that can be fairly and evenly
> enforced on the day. How easy it is for the Pounds of the world to cop
> a phony moralistic stance for the purpose of selling sport to
> corporate sponsors. Brandy and cigars for the "cops", who in my book
> are worse cheaters than the athletes who dope.
>
> As a competitive athlete, if the guy next to you can juice and get
> away with it, you can either keep up or eat shit. Whether you agree or
> not, that's not much of a "choice".
It's a lousy choice, but it is still a choice. You can either cheat or
not. In the long run I have more respect for the guys like Hampsten who
took their careers up the high road knowing the winnings would be fewer.
>
> Don't you find it somewhat disgustingly ironic that Tommy Simpson died
> not from "drugs" but from lack of water-- due to bad rules? IOW, he
> could get amphetamines, alcohol, "whatever" easier than the water that
> would have prevented his unnecessary death, which then brought about
> the "dope scare" we are still living with to this day? I mean, were
> "the rules" changed IRT getting water with the same sense of urgency
> that "drugs" were attacked?
Fool, Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
myriad. Limiting water in hot weather was one of them. Not playing
golf in ones spare time was another. Not taking your wool tights off
until the temp hit 70 is another. I could go on, but it's beside the
point.
>
>> Your presumptions are showing. The Grand Jury subpoena calls for the
>> production of all documents from the Trek litigation and anything else
>> Lemond has. We don't know all that he has. And yes, certain
>> contemporaneous notes and memoranda can be probative and are often
>> admissible at trial.
>
> The issue is whether Greg and Kathy can be believed, short of a well-
> examined recording of Lance's voice saying the things they said he
> said.
> The deck is being stacked against Lance at this point (I know you're
> rejoicing).
You are full of shit, pure and simple. If the deck is stacked, it's
because Lance and Co. stacked it themselves. And it isn't stacked from
the government side. The government has the power to criminally
investigate which is something perps usually don't consider while
planing and doing their acts. Like virtually all perps, they think
they'll never get caught. They're all rather stupid when it comes down
to it. And 99% still claim they're innocent after trial and conviction.
>
>> Novitsky is NOT a prosecutor. He's an investigator. The prosecutor
>> assigned to the case is Doug Miller. "M" is close to "N" in the
>> alphabet, but they are different letters. ;-)
>
> That's right, he used to be a prosecutor but due to his over-reaching
> shenanigans (as diagnosed in the DSM) he isn't one of those any more,
> and now he's an "investigator"-- the position where his work can be
> admired and rewarded, and he can get away with a lot more crap than he
> could as a real prosecutor.
My understanding is that Novitsky has never been a prosecutor. He was
previously an investigator with the criminal division of the IRS. If he
was an AUSA or an ADA, please provide details.
>
>> What's interesting to me is that Novitsky has been staying pretty much
>> out of the public eye in this investigation. Miller is probably keeping
>> him on a short leash for this investigation so that people will bark up
>> the wrong tree like you're doing. Arf! Arf!
>
> Mad dog on a short leash. Maniacal hatred of Barry Bonds a well-
> documented part of his past. Wow, just what we need working for us,
> psychos enforcing the law!
Mad dogs are usually most effective on short leashes.
>
> "Bad cops, bad cops-- what you gonna do?
> Bad cops, bad cops-- what ya gonna do when they come for you?
> Bad cops!"
> (did Novitsky give the evidence back yet like the judge ordered? I bet
> not. Woof woof!)
It's not his evidence to give back. You're thinking it is serves to
illustrate your ignorance of how the criminal legal system works. The
order directing return of materials, as I understand it, was directed by
the court to the US Attorney and the agency in possession of the records.
Might I suggest that you take a break for a while from typing for stupidity?
> --D-y
Keith
wrote:
Thanks, at last LA is not going to be able to bully his way out.
derf...@gmail.com
> or commentary very helpful... ROTFLMAO!
damn straight. We'd never think to look in such obscure places as the
NYT or cyclingnews.com
why, the only reason to visit this newsgroup is to experience such
expert link-spamming-to-make-it-appear-that-I've-discovered-something-
important-that-no-one-else-knows-about.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:WridnUeRhoi5MtzR...@giganews.com...
Silent about... what?
#1: "Lance acolytes" is yet another attempt on your part to further polarize
people rather than try to get to the truth or even understand why they think
the way they do. Why?
#2: There's NOTHING NEW HERE yet again. Get over it. Don't you remember
Trek's defense during the LeMond/Trek split not that long ago? Trek chose
the nuclear option. They put every bit of dirt that might get dug up on them
out on the table, right from the start, neutering LeMond's leverage (as in,
if you don't give me what I want, I'll expose all your dirty laundry... so
Trek exposed it on their own).
#2b: Oh wait, there is something that might come out from the Grand Jury
investigating this and calling in Greg LeMond, specifcally regarding the
"missing" USPS bicycles. Because, what do you know, that came up with Greg!
Ohmygosh, could the Grand Jury/Novitsky be putting two+two together and
wondering what Greg LeMond did with the money? Well no, not really, I don't
think Greg's a suspect for doping, at least not in this venue. But it
*could* go to show that what went on is relatively normal and not unique to
USPS etc.
Keep in mind, as always, I must be totally 100% biased because I'm typing
this from a hotel room in Toulouse, France, after riding out to watch the
'Tour with my son earlier in the day, and I'm here for the next week,
enjoying it immensely. I realize that you can't relate to that possibility;
that a 'Tour in which Lance is not a substantive part of, and in which I've
already said Contador is going to won must be a painful thing for me to
watch. To which I can only suggest that you need to come and see the
spectacle that is the TdF to understand it's a whole lot more than just one
person or team. This isn't World Cup Soccer where the world ends when your
team loses. This is an event where, no matter who wins, people are
entertained, excited, and keep coming back for more.
Which is why it bugs me so much that you only come out at 'Tour time seeking
to do exactly what I'm not sure of, beyond an intense desire to polarize and
inflame people.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Davey Crockett
| Davey stopped going to newstands after Der Stuermer ceased
| publication...
Last time I checked Der Stürmer was alive and well
--
Molly Malone would think she'd died and gone to Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvlUEI4CxhE&feature=player_embedded
thirty-six
>
> Fool, Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
> pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
> primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
> myriad. Limiting water in hot weather was one of them. Not playing
> golf in ones spare time was another. Not taking your wool tights off
> until the temp hit 70 is another. I could go on, but it's beside the
> point.
>
The man was likely to win the tour, he couldn't throw it away. He
had diahroeah and his blood pressure would have been falling without
salted water to bring it back up. The rules did not allow the handing
of water by another rider or by a team manager or mechanic. The
riders had to stop and collect their own water from public sources.
Only two bottles could be carried iirc. The taking of speed was
probably an attempt to maintain blood pressure within the vital
organs. There's also a damn good reason to stay covered up until it
is warm, tour riders back then had very little fat on them and core
body temperature drop when there is a sudden muscle demand for blood,
the returning blood is cold, due to cold muscles and will shock the
heart possibly instigating a heart attack. Not primitive knowledge,
quite advanced, but you need to understand the conditions and rules
imposed were not of the riders making.
B. Lafferty
> On 17 July, 20:05, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Fool, Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
>> pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
>> primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
>> myriad. Limiting water in hot weather was one of them. Not playing
>> golf in ones spare time was another. Not taking your wool tights off
>> until the temp hit 70 is another. I could go on, but it's beside the
>> point.
>>
>
> The man was likely to win the tour, he couldn't throw it away. He
> had diahroeah and his blood pressure would have been falling without
> salted water to bring it back up. The rules did not allow the handing
> of water by another rider or by a team manager or mechanic. The
> riders had to stop and collect their own water from public sources.
> Only two bottles could be carried iirc. The taking of speed was
> probably an attempt to maintain blood pressure within the vital
> organs.
Speed to maintain blood pressure to vital organs. That's a new one. Tom
had diarrhea and probably should not have started that day. But, he did
because he needed to win and needed to make money--a major factor for
him in his life.
> There's also a damn good reason to stay covered up until it
> is warm, tour riders back then had very little fat on them and core
> body temperature drop when there is a sudden muscle demand for blood,
> the returning blood is cold, due to cold muscles and will shock the
> heart possibly instigating a heart attack.
!. TdF riders today have less body fat than the riders of Simpson's
generation, generally.
2. Physiology is a bit more complex than what you present although I
have heard this theory of cold blood from muscles and shocks to the
heart from old racers in the 1970s. They also eschewed drinking water
on hot rides. One told me, Don't drink no water. Just put a pebble in
your mouth and suck on it."
> Not primitive knowledge,
> quite advanced, but you need to understand the conditions and rules
> imposed were not of the riders making.
Some were imposed by Le Tour. Many were of the riders own doing
--D-y
> Bad is a relative term here. As long as it's within the bounds of the
> law, it's OK.
"Bad" like lying or causing others to lie. Withholding exculpatory
evidence. A long way short of nitpicking "technicalities" here.
> Just like Herman can blow smoke for Armstrong as long as
> it's within the bounds of the law.
>
> To answer your question, not all that high a percentage. My guess is
> that 99% percent of those convicted at trial are guilty. The few that
> are not argue well for not having a death penalty.
Percentage is 100 when it happens to you. My "guess" is that there are
many, many false convictions because many don't have the resources to
fight back.
> It's a lousy choice, but it is still a choice.
Don't slip off that pedestal, Brian.
> You can either cheat or
> not. In the long run I have more respect for the guys like Hampsten who
> took their careers up the high road knowing the winnings would be fewer.
Me too. I also have another kind of respect for people who operate in
this evil world and win.
(Tommy Simpson's death)
> Fool,
If you read the Fotheringham book "Put Me Back on My Bike", you'd know
how wrong the rest of what you wrote is.
Rules limited bottle handups in order to "prevent cheating". That's
the (usual stupid human) irony, Brian.
> Simpson died because he was obsessed to win at all costs and
> pushed too close to the line of life and death. As to water, the
> primitive knowledge and superstitions of cyclist from that period are
> myriad. Limiting water in hot weather was one of them. Not playing
> golf in ones spare time was another. Not taking your wool tights off
> until the temp hit 70 is another. I could go on, but it's beside the
> point.
No, the point is, bad rules killed Tommy Simpson-- not "the dope".
Read the book-- his body was dry when he collapsed because he was
unable to sweat.
> You are full of shit, pure and simple.
Not at all full, Brian.
> If the deck is stacked, it's
> because Lance and Co. stacked it themselves.
Clearly, I meant, for one example, that poor Greg and Kathy Lemond are
being made into sympathetic figures. "Dope hysteria".
Greg and Kathy will likely "be believed". Too bad for Lance because
there isn't an accurate recording of the exchange (the "phone call").
> And it isn't stacked from
> the government side.
Jesus. Novitsky puts balls in vices and then gets... the shining
truth? Or, what he wants to hear?
> The government has the power to criminally
> investigate which is something perps usually don't consider while
> planing and doing their acts. Like virtually all perps, they think
> they'll never get caught. They're all rather stupid when it comes down
> to it. And 99% still claim they're innocent after trial and conviction.
I don't agree that "virtually all", by any means, don't believe
they'll be caught. Having spent some hours riding and gabbing with a
person who worked on both sides of the legal fence, so to speak, it
seems many are locked into a way of life that includes lots of jail
time. Sad, isn't it?
> My understanding is that Novitsky has never been a prosecutor. He was
> previously an investigator with the criminal division of the IRS. If he
> was an AUSA or an ADA, please provide details.
That was just downright sloppy on my part. Forgive me.>
> Mad dogs are usually most effective on short leashes.
The pit bulls being used as "legal carry" offensive weapons are let
off leash, by my understanding.
> It's not his evidence to give back. You're thinking it is serves to
> illustrate your ignorance of how the criminal legal system works. The
> order directing return of materials, as I understand it, was directed by
> the court to the US Attorney and the agency in possession of the records.
Not my recollection of the story I read. Judge what's her name, heap-
big PO'd at Novitsky, by name. But, whatever.
>
> Might I suggest that you take a break for a while from typing for stupidity?
Sure. Might I suggest you get some professional help in dealing with
your Lance mania and nasty personal manner? Thanks!
--D-y
RicodJour
It seems people have been trying to get you to shut up for most of
your life.
R
Phil H
Carry on --D-y, we've endured his biased stupidity for years. He's a
dyed in the wool advocate of adversarial legal proceedings and applies
this to his posting activity in rbr. If Lance falls, it will be due to
a relatively small piece of irrefutable evidence and not due to the
mountain of inferior tripe posted by Lafferty. Laf = Lance Armstrong
fixation.
Phil H
thirty-six
> Speed to maintain blood pressure to vital organs. That's a new one.
Amphetamine was the only drug connected with the death of T.Simpson,
it is a stimulant, it raises heart rate and pressure. Without water,
what else was there in an attempt to support his life with thick
blood?
>Tom
> had diarrhea and probably should not have started that day. But, he did
> because he needed to win and needed to make money--a major factor for
> him in his life.
>
> > There's also a damn good reason to stay covered up until it
>
> > is warm, tour riders back then had very little fat on them and core
> > body temperature drop when there is a sudden muscle demand for blood,
> > the returning blood is cold, due to cold muscles and will shock the
> > heart possibly instigating a heart attack.
>
> !. TdF riders today have less body fat than the riders of Simpson's
> generation, generally.
More attention may be paid to actual values today but I'd expect that
both generally across the field and specifically to GC riders that
body fat percentage will have been lower forty years and more ago.
> 2. Physiology is a bit more complex than what you present although I
> have heard this theory of cold blood from muscles and shocks to the
> heart from old racers in the 1970s. They also eschewed drinking water
> on hot rides. One told me, Don't drink no water. Just put a pebble in
> your mouth and suck on it."
And that would be the conditioning to enable a professional to ride
the tour. When water is rationed, the sucking of a pebble is used to
prevent the response to a false thirst.
>
> > Not primitive knowledge,
> > quite advanced, but you need to understand the conditions and rules
> > imposed were not of the riders making.
>
> Some were imposed by Le Tour. Many were of the riders own doing
The prevention of an adequate water supply was part of the rules of
the tour.
B. Lafferty
> On 18 July, 00:27, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Speed to maintain blood pressure to vital organs. That's a new one.
>
> Amphetamine was the only drug connected with the death of T.Simpson,
> it is a stimulant, it raises heart rate and pressure. Without water,
> what else was there in an attempt to support his life with thick
> blood?
He also had alcohol in his system which would have helped to dehydrate
him. I saw a guy die of dehydration/heat stroke at one of the
Manufacturer's Hanover Corporate Challenge road races in 1991 from
dehydration. We got him to a hotel lobby and covered him in ice until
EMS arrived, but it didn't save him. Scary.
Davey Crockett
| On 7/18/2010 11:40 AM, thirty-six wrote:
It was common practice way back when to down some brandy as it was
(purportedly) good for the stomach.
Also smoking a couple of cigarettes was believed to acclimatize one for
the exhaust fumes etc. on the roads.
And take it from Davey who grew up - cycling wise - with Simpson, he
would never have taken more than 30mg of speed (amphetamines) because of
the dangers of hallucinating.
He simply rode his heart out. No wins since Paris-Nice a couple of years
before I think, expiring contract and no prospective sponsor for the
next season - not even an approach which then as now was common at the
Tour.
--
Impeachment ot Enbalm-ment ?
One way or the other, O'Bongo has to go.
Wake up you KoolAid Drinkers.
thirty-six
> On 7/18/2010 11:40 AM, thirty-six wrote:
>
> > On 18 July, 00:27, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >> Speed to maintain blood pressure to vital organs. That's a new one.
>
> > Amphetamine was the only drug connected with the death of T.Simpson,
> > it is a stimulant, it raises heart rate and pressure. Without water,
> > what else was there in an attempt to support his life with thick
> > blood?
>
> He also had alcohol in his system which would have helped to dehydrate
> him.
Not necessarily. If anything the alcohol would have kept his blood
fluid. Next you'll be saying asprin was involved. The simple thing
is that he had insufficient blood volume to sustain the power in his
legs. His will-power overcame his weakness and he continued to his
death.
thirty-six
> "B. Lafferty" a écrit profondement:
>
> | On 7/18/2010 11:40 AM, thirty-six wrote:
> | > On 18 July, 00:27, "B. Lafferty"<b...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> | >
> | >> Speed to maintain blood pressure to vital organs. That's a new one.
> | >
> | > Amphetamine was the only drug connected with the death of T.Simpson,
> | > it is a stimulant, it raises heart rate and pressure. Without water,
> | > what else was there in an attempt to support his life with thick
> | > blood?
>
> | He also had alcohol in his system which would have helped to dehydrate
> | him. I saw a guy die of dehydration/heat stroke at one of the
> | Manufacturer's Hanover Corporate Challenge road races in 1991 from
> | dehydration. We got him to a hotel lobby and covered him in ice until
> | EMS arrived, but it didn't save him. Scary.
>
> It was common practice way back when to down some brandy as it was
> (purportedly) good for the stomach.
Alcohol is the fastest way to get fluid into the body through normal
routes, which occurs even if the stomach is in spasm. The
withhjolding of water would therefore create a desire for alcohol to
stop the spasm caused through dehydration.
>
> Also smoking a couple of cigarettes was believed to acclimatize one for
> the exhaust fumes etc. on the roads.
Kicks in the white cell (immune) response to clear the lungs.
>
Zeno
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe
This only confirms to me that the prosecution now know they have no
case and are going for celebrity grandstanding to try and justify all
the initial hype andf grab a few more headlines.
--D-y
The Fotheringham book has an episode detailing a Simpson drug
(amphetamine) buy. One buy was made for a season's supply, according
to this account by a witness, who I believe was a roomate (?; "read
the book, please").
From observation, not personal use, I understand that a little
ampetamine goes a long way, while "too much" makes it impossible to
work hard continuously in the heat (this from working construction
trades in Texas).
Again, "the rules" of Simpson's times forbade (IMS) more than two
bottles and handups/feeds were very limited, where allowed at all.
Which puts the "comical" scenes in 60's cycling movies-- is it "Stars
and Watercarriers", with Merckx at the Giro?-- where riders are
dipping in fountains, drinking dirty water, and raiding cafés for
"anything liquid" to drink (breakable glass bottles and all) into a
much more serious framework.
Note, the Fotheringham book also speaks of a couple of other incidents
where dehydrated riders collapsed but were saved from death. IOW, it
was not as if the strongest warnings were not plainly obvious.
Again, if I'm repeating: Simpson's body was reported to be dry when he
died. Meaning, no ability to sweat to cool himself off. "Heat stroke",
to use a common expression. Uncontrolled rise in body temperature
resulting in collapse and death.
Maybe the speed, even in a controlled dose, helped him push past what
might be called a "normal threshold" of suffering but that point is
perhaps moot, seeing that people in endurance events are known to
succumb to ingestion of too much water, as well as too little, and
post-mortems certainly do not always show "toxicity" (drugs). I'd
guess that Brian followed the most unfortunate case he mentioned?
--D-y
Human folly that Simpson's death could have benefitted athletes but as
a result of entrenched ignorance, it did not.
--D-y
Thank you.
The unfairness of it bugs me. Speaking as one who lost innocence in
the fairly recent past <g>.
I mean, there was a writer for Inside who some several years ago found
a Dr. Gofast who put him on a regimen (the usual reported pharmacopeia
of PED's) and guess what, he performed much better even as an
"outpatient", so to speak, not someone who saw or was in contact with
the doc every day because he was making the big bucks in competitive
sports. Meaning, the rewards are great and it isn't difficult to find
the dope and someone who knows something about how to administer it,
even in the lower levels of sport. Meaning, "no wonder they're all
doping" <g>.
He's (Lafferty) sure not stupid. Mostly angry, as far as I can tell;
the point there is, most if not all dope or have doped, always.
Including the "heroes" of the past, but also the virgin angels who
(sorry!) might not always know what is in the "medicine" they are
given.
Too bad, there's no solution for this problem, including (as Lafferty
has proposed) putting the sport on ice for a few years. What happens
when one street drugs dealer is sent away?
--D-y
Davey Crockett
| The Fotheringham book has an episode detailing a Simpson drug
| (amphetamine) buy. One buy was made for a season's supply, according
| to this account by a witness, who I believe was a roomate (?; "read
| the book, please").
Fotheringham will write anything. And he's pretty clueless overall
I quit reading anything he wrote after one book had an illustration
photograph of Ockers, Van Steenbergen and Bobet (Louis) and had the
order all wrong. Not even one in the right order - and the year was
wrong too which was an easy one as the diminutive Ockers had a rainbow
jersey on his back emblazoned as was the custom at that time with
"Wereldkampioen"
--
The number of deaths among illegal immigrants crossing the Arizona
desert from Mexico is soaring so high this month that the medical
examiner's office is using a refrigerated truck to store some of them,
the chief examiner said Friday. Gee, what a dirty rotten shame. I
think I will cry me a big ole river ;)
Perry
lot of reflective people have stopped
buying into Lance's concocted-by-an-agent-for-a-heartening-money-
making-miraculous "cancer cure"story.
"CANCER"+STEROIDS = $
Look you sports dupes. It doesn't take the brains of an ashtray to
deduce that if Armstrong's stage 4 bodywide cancer recovery was free
of fiction, his every physiological and cellular aspect would have
been studied and scrutinized by researchers to the Nth-degree to
determine if his recovery path could be replicated in/by other
seriously ill patients.
Of course, THAT route would have required long-term, in-depth BLOOD
exams and analyses, wouldn't it?