Tandem racing: is stoker bigger, more powerful?
Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)
How about track tandem action?
Today, most recreation tandems seem to be set up with a guy up front
and woman behind.
I vaguely recall a famous track tandem team from the 1970's with the
nicknames "The Body" and "The Worm." I recall that the skinny Worm was
the driver and the huge Body was stoker. I forget their names but
would remember if I saw them. Weren't they Detroiters?
--JP
allbikemag.com
Kurgan Gringioni
> "Feels good!"
John Forrest Tomlinson
OutYourBackdoor.com)" <Jef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In tandem racing is the stoker usually the bigger more powerful rider?
>
>How about track tandem action?
>
>Today, most recreation tandems seem to be set up with a guy up front
>and woman behind.
Control is an issue, so the rider in front should not be much smaller
than the one in back.
>
>I vaguely recall a famous track tandem team from the 1970's with the
>nicknames "The Body" and "The Worm." I recall that the skinny Worm was
>the driver and the huge Body was stoker. I forget their names but
>would remember if I saw them. Weren't they Detroiters?
Famous, huh?
Carl Sundquist
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenet...@jt10000.com> wrote in message
news:d14ub454r2bc1rvfl...@4ax.com...
The only tandem teams I can recall from that era were Leigh Barczewski and
Jerry Ash / Chris Bodycombe and Mike Derian.
Ryan Cousineau
My off-the-cuff, no-tandem-racing theory would be that the stoker,
having no driving responsibilities, would be well-suited to being the
sprinter/powerhouse of the pair, a circumstance which would leave him
able to put his head down (literally) and put out power when necessary.
As JT says, control is an issue with such teams, but much less of one
with experienced riders, and even less so in a race, as you don't have
to worry much about starting and stopping, which are the fussiest parts
of tandem riding.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
Howard Kveck
Ryan Cousineau <rcou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <d14ub454r2bc1rvfl...@4ax.com>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenet...@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:06:33 -0700 (PDT), "Jeff Potter (of
> > OutYourBackdoor.com)" <Jef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >In tandem racing is the stoker usually the bigger more powerful rider?
> > >
> > >How about track tandem action?
> > >
> > >Today, most recreation tandems seem to be set up with a guy up front
> > >and woman behind.
> >
> > Control is an issue, so the rider in front should not be much smaller
> > than the one in back.
> >
> > >
> > >I vaguely recall a famous track tandem team from the 1970's with the
> > >nicknames "The Body" and "The Worm." I recall that the skinny Worm was
> > >the driver and the huge Body was stoker. I forget their names but
> > >would remember if I saw them. Weren't they Detroiters?
>
> My off-the-cuff, no-tandem-racing theory would be that the stoker,
> having no driving responsibilities, would be well-suited to being the
> sprinter/powerhouse of the pair, a circumstance which would leave him
> able to put his head down (literally) and put out power when necessary.
> As JT says, control is an issue with such teams, but much less of one
> with experienced riders, and even less so in a race, as you don't have
> to worry much about starting and stopping, which are the fussiest parts
> of tandem riding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml4HN3B51kc
--
tanx,
Howard
The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Ryan Cousineau
Howard Kveck <YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <rcousine-F113F6.18052203092008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcou...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <d14ub454r2bc1rvfl...@4ax.com>,
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenet...@jt10000.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:06:33 -0700 (PDT), "Jeff Potter (of
> > > OutYourBackdoor.com)" <Jef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >I vaguely recall a famous track tandem team from the 1970's with the
> > > >nicknames "The Body" and "The Worm." I recall that the skinny Worm was
> > > >the driver and the huge Body was stoker. I forget their names but
> > > >would remember if I saw them. Weren't they Detroiters?
> >
> > My off-the-cuff, no-tandem-racing theory would be that the stoker,
> > having no driving responsibilities, would be well-suited to being the
> > sprinter/powerhouse of the pair, a circumstance which would leave him
> > able to put his head down (literally) and put out power when necessary.
> > As JT says, control is an issue with such teams, but much less of one
> > with experienced riders, and even less so in a race, as you don't have
> > to worry much about starting and stopping, which are the fussiest parts
> > of tandem riding.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml4HN3B51kc
Holy moly! Astounding video of track tandem sprinting, with a nice save
of a probable crash at the end. Must watch.
Donald Munro
> In tandem racing is the stoker usually the bigger more powerful rider?
Judge for yourself:
<http://s3.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bitch-cruiser-bike1_2263.jpg>
Steve Freides
message
news:b0c85381-e0e7-41c6...@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On the tandem email list
Steve Freides
"Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" <Jef...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:b0c85381-e0e7-41c6...@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On the tandem email list
http://sdcc3.ucsd.edu/home-pages/wade/tandem.html
there are quite a few teams who race - you might want to sign up and ask
there, or see if the archives are searchable by non-members (I think
they are).
There is the issue of controlling the bike, which is why the person with
the greater upper body strength is usually seated at the front, at least
that's how it works in our family. We own several tandems and a
custom-built triplet I've ridden with both my kids or my wife and one of
my kids as stokers.
BTW, we own a Green Gear Family Tandem my wife used to captain that's
for sale if anyone in metro NYC is interested (we're in northern NJ)
because my youngest child is now about my wife's size and both kids
prefer riding their single bikes - which is what you call them in a
household where a lot of tandeming happens, single bikes.
Last but not least, my favorite source for tandems both custom and
production: http://www.bilenky.com We own a production tandem, the
above-mentioned custom triplet, and he also built me my "dream" bike, a
custom single in fillet-brazed steel that weighs 16 lbs. ready to ride
(Sweet Wings crank/bb, built-by-me sewup wheels/tires, ordinary rest of
components).
Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)
[ ]
> >>I vaguely recall a famous track tandem team from the 1970's with the
> >>nicknames "The Body" and "The Worm." I recall that the skinny Worm was
> >>the driver and the huge Body was stoker. I forget their names but
> >>would remember if I saw them. Weren't they Detroiters?
>
> > Famous, huh?
Well, in track racing then... "Colorful"?
> The only tandem teams I can recall from that era were Leigh Barczewski and
> Jerry Ash / Chris Bodycombe and Mike Derian.
Ah! Bodycombe must've been "The Body"---that name is familiar, and
works. I was thinking "Mark" for one of them but was Mike
tall'n'skinny? I think that's the team.
Carl Sundquist
"Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" <Jef...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:0ee9b365-b2a3-4709...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
-----------------
Derian is a pretty big guy; maybe skinny back then.
Paul G.
Wow, those are really beefy chainstays!
Tom Kunich
> In tandem racing is the stoker usually the bigger more powerful rider?
Tandems are sort of strange animals. They aren't bicycles and they handle
quite a bit differently. For instance - the rear brake works almost as good
as the front. Another thing - they are so heavy to handle and steer that
when you get back on a bicycle after riding a tandem for more than a couple
of minutes you feel as if there's something loose or otherwise wrong with
the fork on the bicycle. Even the stoker gets that problem.
While women can handle a tandem it's pretty plain why they would rather not.
Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)
> "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" <Jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:0ee9b365-b2a3-4709...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> > Jerry Ash / Chris Bodycombe and Mike Derian.
>
> Ah! Bodycombe must've been "The Body"---that name is familiar, and
> works. I was thinking "Mark" for one of them but was Mike
> tall'n'skinny? I think that's the team.
> -----------------
>
> Derian is a pretty big guy; maybe skinny back then.
Well, the names are very familiar. Maybe the nicknames went the other
way around.
Two bike racing pals from early 80's did some track tandem with the
Wolverines and totally blew up one time---broken bones and huge
amounts of gruesomeness, as I recall. Kurt Martin---skinny---and Jon
Morgan---beefy. I don't know who was stoker. I think it happened in
Indy. I only heard about it 2nd-hand.
--JP
Ryan Cousineau
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" <Jef...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> news:b0c85381-e0e7-41c6...@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> > In tandem racing is the stoker usually the bigger more powerful rider?
>
> Tandems are sort of strange animals. They aren't bicycles and they handle
> quite a bit differently. For instance - the rear brake works almost as good
> as the front. Another thing - they are so heavy to handle and steer that
> when you get back on a bicycle after riding a tandem for more than a couple
> of minutes you feel as if there's something loose or otherwise wrong with
> the fork on the bicycle. Even the stoker gets that problem.
I don't have a lot of tandem experience (and none racing, though, er, I
may change that soon, but not in the usual way...), but "they aren't
bicycles" overstates the case rather a lot, from my experience. I don't
doubt your theory about the loose-fork sensation, though I have to say
that I've had that experience moving from my commuter bike (50 pounds
loaded?) to my racer (20 pounds, more or less). Also, my tandem really
does have a lot of flex and looseness, which hardly helps:
<http://wiredcola.com/content/ill-buy-anything>
Yes, I know, my collection of bikes is awesome, thank you for noticing.
> While women can handle a tandem it's pretty plain why they would rather not.
There's reasons both physical and probability-based (which basically
means that of typical mixed-sex tandem teams, the woman is fairly
unlikely to be the more experienced rider, never mind issues of physical
strength) that women aren't usually the captains.
In everyday riding, the captain should always be the more experienced
rider, unless the size and strength disparities are dramatic. Non-racing
tandem teams often have big disparities in ability, because that's one
of the best uses of a tandem: letting riders of disparate abilities ride
together with ease and a workload shared according to ability (very
communist, I know, but as a committed subsidiaritist, I believe that
communism begins and ends at home).
Racing teams are a different animal because I suspect very few have an
inexperienced cyclist on them. Given that, and with the proviso that
I've only ever seen one racing tandem in person*, I think that I would
be willing to try putting a small-but-skilled captain in front of a
big-and-not-inexperienced stoker with the hope that the stoker, freed of
the need to manage the bike, could concentrate on being a powerplant.
Indeed, my weird reference in the first paragraph is to this: a teammate
who is Mutt to my Jeff is threatening to buy this ludicrously cheap
tandem at the urging of his wife:
<http://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Dualie-Tandem-26-Inch-Wheels/dp/B001731O2M
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1220925800&sr=8-1>
I have promised to pay the entry fees if he will ride it with me as a
team. In a cyclocross race.** Current thinking is that Jeff should be
the captain (if, that is, Mutt can fit in the stoker cockpit) if only to
minimize the chance that the stoker will get kicked in the face.
*it was an all-female team, and the stoker was blind. Makes the decision
of who gets to be captain pretty easy.
**we both understand that This Is Not A Well Thought-Out Plan. That's
why we like it.