More Jumping The SS Armstrong?
B. Lafferty
TritonRider
>Perhaps Heras this time.
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/dec03/dec03news
>
>
Is Heras dumb enough to ride for "Venga Venga"? This would be enough to get
him a Vuelta win, I'm sure. I can't remeber what the song I heard was the other
day but the chorus was "Venga, Venga, Venga, something!" Couldn't help but
think of the escapades on the road of our favorite director.
Bill C
B. Lafferty
him in 2004. As for dumb, he must be dumb. After all, he's sacrificed
himself for Armstrong for several years. Other than seeing to it that he's
paid well, what has Armstrong done for him? Helped Heras in the Vuelta?
Brian
"TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031202201237...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Mike S.
"B. Lafferty" <Ma...@Italia.com> wrote in message
news:3Razb.1881$Qd6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Maybe Heras knows more about Armstong than any of us and figures he can
beat
> him in 2004. As for dumb, he must be dumb. After all, he's sacrificed
> himself for Armstrong for several years. Other than seeing to it that he's
> paid well, what has Armstrong done for him? Helped Heras in the Vuelta?
>
> Brian
No but the rest of the team has... After all, if LA isn't there and it
isn't a spring classic, RH is the man.
Mike
TritonRider
>Maybe Heras knows more about Armstong than any of us and figures he can beat
>him in 2004. As for dumb, he must be dumb. After all, he's sacrificed
>himself for Armstrong for several years. Other than seeing to it that he's
>paid well, what has Armstrong done for him? Helped Heras in the Vuelta?
>
>Brian
This is like going from working for Edward Jones which is rated the best
company to work for, granted he's #2 there, to being #1 at Wal-Mart who are
pond scum at best.
Bill C
B. Lafferty
I think you like "Venga, Venga" about as much as I like Armstrong. That's
ok. I'd like to see what Armstrong does with Heras as an adversary next
year. It could help make for a very good Tour.
If Heras goes, what's the post-Postal Lance count?. I've lost track.
TritonRider
> I'd like to see what Armstrong does with Heras as an adversary next
>year. It could help make for a very good Tour.
>
>If Heras goes, what's the post-Postal Lance count?. I've lost track.
>
>
The count's getting pretty high, and It would definitely make the mountain
stages more interesting, but I think Heras is better suited to shorter
steep/pure climber grades than those in the Tour. I could see him winning the
Vuelta with ease given a solid team and no other major goal, but I don't see
him challenging Lance and Jan for the Tour overall.
Bill C
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
I like Wal-Mart. Good old cut-throat capitalism.
The only problem with it is there aren't a whole lot of Hotties there - it's
mostly Fatties and Bluehairs.
Mike S.
That would have to be a huge mental leap. RH has worked with LA and knows
his strengths/weaknesses. Improving his TT ability would be #1 on the list
of things to do to beat LA.
Mike
Tom Paterson
>Is Heras dumb enough to ride for "Venga Venga"? This would be enough to get
>him a Vuelta win, I'm sure.
Maybe another Vuelta win, at best, is what remains for Heras, if the V3 man
doesn't blow it. His welcome at Postal may be worn out: Armstrong couldn't even
hand him a stage this year; his one superior abilty was shown to have pretty
severe limits. He was absent once or twice when duty called, and they got it
done without him. Gone.
He's done well for himself there, maybe the best choice possible for him
(looking past cycling-- standard of living in later years, etc.). Gracias,
adios. --TP
psycholist
"Tom Paterson" <dusto...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20031202211132...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Say what you will about Heras. Taking back 2 minutes on Nozal to win the
Vuelta in the short mtn. TT was one of the main highlights of this pro
season in my opinion. That was one awesome ride! Whatever he does, I wish
him all the best.
Bob C.
RACER X
riders. Let's see anorexic Spanish boy pull that nonsense on Alpe d'Huez next
year against Lance in the REAL Tour.
The Vuelta, much like the Giro, is for riders who get blown out the back on GC
in the Tour de France. The racers who race them are like the special education
class in pro cycling.
Botereo, all the Gonzalezes, Heras, that punta Sevilla....those guys are
little-boy prostitutes in the Tour de France.
What you got to say about that Triton Rider?
Racer X
Richard Adams
Sounds like the perfect sponsor for a Fattie Masters team.
Richard Adams
> I think you like "Venga, Venga" about as much as I like Armstrong.
That's
> ok. I'd like to see what Armstrong does with Heras as an adversary next
> year. It could help make for a very good Tour.
Lance would eat him for lunch, the only thing Heras could go for is
podium. Heras has improved considerably in the TT since joining postal,
in some of the pics you can see they've put some muscle on the boy, but
it's not enough to do in some of the mighty all-arounders, such as
Hamilton, Ullrich and Armstrong.
Boyd Speerschneider
news:bqjt39$g...@dispatch.concentric.net:
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> I like Wal-Mart. Good old cut-throat capitalism.
>>
>> The only problem with it is there aren't a whole lot of Hotties there -
>> it's mostly Fatties and Bluehairs.
>
> Sounds like the perfect sponsor for a Fattie Masters team.
Yeah... nothing sells your product like a bunch of overweight SOBs in spandex
racing bikes.
Walmart didn't get where they are today by flushing money down the toilet.
- BS
Ewoud Dronkert
> Perhaps Heras this time.
It's definite.
TritonRider
Anything looks spectacular when your main competition is a bunch of second-rate
riders. Let's see anorexic Spanish boy pull that nonsense on Alpe d'Huez next
year against Lance in the REAL Tour.
>Botereo, all the Gonzalezes, Heras, that punta Sevilla....those guys are
>little-boy prostitutes in the Tour de France.
>
>What you got to say about that Triton Rider?
It's Bill and I agree with you. They are definitely part of the second tier
of talent in the Tour, and wont be winning it any time soon unless they find a
way to get a "pantani program" through the controls.
Bill C
B. Lafferty
"Boyd Speerschneider" <bspeers...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9446125A0680...@65.32.1.6...
I can just see Henry as the spandex greeter at WM. "Welcome to WM. Toasters
and bread machines? Straight ahead and to your left."
Robert Chung
Antisocial
"Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3fcdd68c$0$21324$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net...
"..and some believe he is one of the few riders capable of challenging
Armstrong in the Tour."
Oh puh-leeze.
--
"There comes a time in every honest man's life when he feels the need to
hoist the black flag and start slicing throats."
- H.L. Menken
Ewoud Dronkert
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>> It's definite.
>
> http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/V3/L0/S18/E6083/sport_Lng0_Spo18_Evt6083_Sto515394.shtml
Is that meant as confirmation, or denial of my statement? Maybe it's
not definite in the sense that not all details are worked out, and
Heras himself hasn't officially confirmed it, but when Bruyneel says:
"A few days ago his lawyer told us that he wanted to leave the team.
Apparently he has received an offer of a three-year contract to lead
another team. We aren't happy with the situation, but if Roberto wants
to leave there is nothing we can do to stop him.", I think there's no
going back. Anyway, it's reported as fact in the Flemish papers.
Robert Chung
> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:26:48 +0100, Robert Chung wrote:
>> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>>> It's definite.
>>
>>
http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/V3/L0/S18/E6083/sport_Lng0_Spo18_Evt6083_Sto515394.shtml
>
> Is that meant as confirmation, or denial of my statement?
Does a dog have buddha nature?
Steven L. Sheffield
3fcddea2$0$15133$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net, "Robert Chung"
<inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
I thought dogs had dookie nature. Or natural dookie.
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
Ewoud Dronkert
>> Is that meant as confirmation, or denial of my statement?
>
> Does a dog have buddha nature?
Do both questions have the same answer as: does superstring theory
describe how things really are? and, more importantly: who will win
the Tour next year?
Richard Adams
"I can neither deny nor confirm the reports," he told Marca.
Man, have they taught him well or what? Next thing you know he'll be
running for governor.
Donald Munro
>> Does a dog have buddha nature?
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> Do both questions have the same answer as: does superstring theory
> describe how things really are? and, more importantly: who will win
> the Tour next year?
That depends on which one of the infinite supply of possible universes
in which the next tour takes place, and some in which it is cancelled
due to unforseen events such as a giant meteor hitting France.
Richard Adams
If this year's was a nail-biter, expect more of one next year.
Seriously, who wants a dull tour where Armstrong shows up in 2000 form
and walks away with it? I mean besides Lance and Co.
Robert Chung
> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:01:18 +0100, Robert Chung wrote:
>>> Is that meant as confirmation, or denial of my statement?
>>
>> Does a dog have buddha nature?
>
> Do both questions have the same answer as: does superstring theory
> describe how things really are?
My brother, who is an engineer, once told me that engineers think that
equations are an approximation of reality while physicists think reality
is an approximation to an equation. I started off my training as a
mathematician so he paused before adding, "Mathematicians haven't made the
connection yet."
pedalchick
> "TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message news:2003120220301-
> 3.15599....@mb-m03.aol.comnews:20031202203013.15599.00000054@mb-m0-
Congratulations! You've just managed to insert your masters fattie
fixation into a thread that I couldn't possibly imagine being associated
with fatties. Heras has to be one of the tiniest men I've ever seen that
isn't technically one of the "little people".
Personally, I'd hate to see Heras leave Postal beacause watching
Armstrong and Heras beat up on everyone in '02 was awesome, but the guy
could be a great tour rider if he can get his TT'ing (on the flats) up
to speed. There are few better that Saiz at turning out good TT'ers.
--
Marty
message news:kzbzb.8152$zL1.1...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
snip...
> > This is like going from working for Edward Jones which is rated the
best
> > company to work for, granted he's #2 there, to being #1 at Wal-Mart who
are
> > pond scum at best.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I like Wal-Mart. Good old cut-throat capitalism.
>
> The only problem with it is there aren't a whole lot of Hotties there -
it's
> mostly Fatties and Bluehairs.
Didn't Playboy recently do a hotties of Wal-Mart spread (no pun intended)?
--
Marty
Bob Schwartz
> Is that meant as confirmation, or denial of my statement? Maybe it's
> not definite in the sense that not all details are worked out, and
> Heras himself hasn't officially confirmed it, but when Bruyneel says:
> "A few days ago his lawyer told us that he wanted to leave the team.
> Apparently he has received an offer of a three-year contract to lead
> another team. We aren't happy with the situation, but if Roberto wants
> to leave there is nothing we can do to stop him.", I think there's no
> going back. Anyway, it's reported as fact in the Flemish papers.
That is an interesting statement because it implies that Roberto
was smarter in his contract with Postal than he was with his prior
employer.
This doesn't appear to be a bad move for him. He is still the team
leader in the Vuelta and will likely have a stronger team behind him.
If the money is comparable then anything positive that happens in the
Tour is a bonus.
This also frees up a chunk of cash in Postal's budget which should
make poaching a replacement for Heras pretty easy. And it also removes
any obligation to make a serious effort in the Vuelta.
Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com
Marty
news:vss0fbr...@corp.supernews.com...
Sure enough:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/11/12/news/companies/walmart_playboy/
--
Marty
Patrick O'Grady
Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> Does a dog have buddha nature?
Woof.
Patrick O'Grady
Zen Dog Media
http://www.maddogmedia.com
Richard Adams
> In article <3fcddea2$0$15133$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>, "Robert
> Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Does a dog have buddha nature?
>
> Woof.
Bjarne Riis leads a dog's life ... after all, he's a great dane!
Donald Munro
>>>Does a dog have buddha nature?
Patrick O'Grady (MadDogMedia) wrote:
>> Woof.
Richard Adams wrote:
> Bjarne Riis leads a dog's life ... after all, he's a great dane!
And some cyclists dogs spend a lot of time meditating at high altitude
in Tibet so they have a high haemocrit.
Alex Rodriguez
says...
>>From: "B. Lafferty" Ma...@Italia.com
>>Perhaps Heras this time.
>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/dec03/dec03news
> Is Heras dumb enough to ride for "Venga Venga"? This would be enough to get
>him a Vuelta win, I'm sure. I can't remeber what the song I heard was the other
>day but the chorus was "Venga, Venga, Venga, something!" Couldn't help but
>think of the escapades on the road of our favorite director.
Heras must have his eyes set on more than the Vuelta. With USPS he has plenty
of support of win the Vuelta. It is the TDF where he must sacrifice himself
for someone else. So that is probably the race he wants to win, but he can't
do that on his current team.
-----------------
Alex
Carl Sundquist
"pedalchick" <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message >
> Personally, I'd hate to see Heras leave Postal beacause watching
> Armstrong and Heras beat up on everyone in '02 was awesome, but the guy
> could be a great tour rider if he can get his TT'ing (on the flats) up
> to speed. There are few better that Saiz at turning out good TT'ers.
>
This also goes back to the stories that John Cobb et. al. did not work on Heras' TT
position. Presumably USPS and LANCE knew 'berto wouldn't be wearing Postal colors forever.
Kurgan Gringioni
"Ewoud Dronkert" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:qporsvgb1s2dio7j3...@news.xs4all.nl...
Dumbass -
IMO, what all those theories seem to tell us is our perception of reality is
at such a low level that none of us are capable of grasping reality as it
truly exists.
As for the Tour: Armstrong or Ullrich.
Heras? Pipe dream, but Postal should get a nice chunk of $$$ from Mr. Venga,
just like Kelme got from Postal.
Richard Adams
Like VDB's dog ... isn't that a Lhassa Eposo?
CTRDY01
>was smarter in his contract with Postal than he was with his prior
>employer.
>
>This doesn't appear to be a bad move for him. He is still the team
>leader in the Vuelta and will likely have a stronger team behind him.
>If the money is comparable then anything positive that happens in the
>Tour is a bonus.
>
>This also frees up a chunk of cash in Postal's budget which should
>make poaching a replacement for Heras pretty easy. And it also removes
>any obligation to make a serious effort in the Vuelta.
>
I think this is an excellent move for Heras. With the uncertainty of what LA is
doing after this season and the Postal sponsorship not to be continued (I think
I remember reading...) no telling what the team would look like after 2004, so
the promise of him being the USPS leader in the post-Armstrong area may not be
quite as appealing
He now has a multi year contract with another team as a leader... pretty sure
he's not loosing much on the $ side either :-)
I think the issue for LA and the USPS is that while it is uncertain what Heras
can do as a leader, he has certainly proved to to be among the best climbers.
Lance had plenty of attacks to answer in the hills this year, not only is he
loosing a supporting cast member, but there will be one more guy shooting up
the climbs that LA will have to contend with.
With potential attacks from podium contenders such as Hamilton, Beloki, Ulrich
(?), Mayo (?), Vino (?), and now possibly Heras... LA is going to be a busy man
in La Mongie and the Plateau de Beille.
USPS might be able to get a quality supporting cast member to help out Lance,
but none of the guys mentionned above are going to sign-up.... of course, the
way things are going... who knows!
- Chris -
http://www.customgetaways.com
Sport Vacations
(Multisport, Cycling, Marathons, etc...)
Kurgan Gringioni
"Carl Sundquist" <car...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:vss85ug...@corp.supernews.com...
Dumbass -
That is interesting. No wonder he still sucks at flat TT.
I wonder if he asked to do wind tunnel work or if he shares the typical Euro
racer aversion to that stuff, ala Jan Ullrich.
Kurgan Gringioni
"CTRDY01" <ctr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031203124801...@mb-m02.aol.com...
>
> I think the issue for LA and the USPS is that while it is uncertain what
Heras
> can do as a leader, he has certainly proved to to be among the best
climbers.
> Lance had plenty of attacks to answer in the hills this year, not only is
he
> loosing a supporting cast member, but there will be one more guy shooting
up
> the climbs that LA will have to contend with.
<snip>
Dumbass -
I don't think LANCE really has to worry about Heras. Heras can't flat TT and
his only attack is in the last 5k of a climb, an explosive style that matches
LANCE's strength. The climbs in the TdF are typically long grinders that
don't suit a lightweight like Heras.
As for losing support, Heras sucked this year as support although he was
excellent last year.
LANCE has to worry about Ullrich.
Tom Schulenburg
<SNIP>>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> I don't think LANCE really has to worry about Heras. Heras can't flat TT
and
> his only attack is in the last 5k of a climb, an explosive style that
matches
> LANCE's strength. The climbs in the TdF are typically long grinders that
> don't suit a lightweight like Heras.
>
> As for losing support, Heras sucked this year as support although he was
> excellent last year.
>
>
> LANCE has to worry about Ullrich.
>
Amen - Heras has not been as consistent as Rubiera in the last few TdF's.
Adding Beltran to the team gives USPS a little more insurance in the
mountains
-T
Ewoud Dronkert
>>>> Is that meant as confirmation, or denial of my statement?
>>>
>>> Does a dog have buddha nature?
>>
>> Do both questions have the same answer as: does superstring theory
>> describe how things really are? and, more importantly: who will win
>> the Tour next year?
>
> at such a low level that none of us are capable of grasping reality as it
> truly exists.
IOW, nobody knows.
CTRDY01
>his only attack is in the last 5k of a climb, an explosive style that matches
>LANCE's strength. The climbs in the TdF are typically long grinders that
>don't suit a lightweight like Heras.
>
>As for losing support, Heras sucked this year as support although he was
>excellent last year.
>
>
>LANCE has to worry about Ullrich.
>
>
Exactly why next year's Tour is so interesting. I'd venture to say that Heras
could take more time over Ullrich in the 2 Pyrenees stages + the Alpe d'Huez TT
than Ullrich can over Heras in the flat TT... it could be very close anyway.
The TTT could be a tie-breaker.
I still think LA won't like seeing Heras around in the final climbs (anymore!)
and if Heras decides to take off in la Mongie, I don't think LA will let him do
it again going up to Beille.
Lance has to worry about more then Ullrich... that's the problem (for LA)
Antisocial
Mu
--
"There comes a time in every honest man's life when he feels the need to
hoist the black flag and start slicing throats."
- H.L. Menken
Antisocial
"Richard Adams" <ack...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:bql7h4$f...@dispatch.concentric.net...
hehehe, very good.
pedalchick
> Dumbass -
> IMO, what all those theories seem to tell us is our perception of
> reality is at such a low level that none of us are capable of grasping
> reality as it truly exists.
> As for the Tour: Armstrong or Ullrich.
> Heras? Pipe dream, but Postal should get a nice chunk of $$$ from Mr.
> Venga, just like Kelme got from Postal.
OK, now that Postal will get a big hunk of cash from Saiz, who will they
spend it on?
Horner?
Let's begin the speculation....
--
Kyle Legate
> Dumbass -
>
> That is interesting. No wonder he still sucks at flat TT.
>
> I wonder if he asked to do wind tunnel work or if he shares the
> typical Euro racer aversion to that stuff, ala Jan Ullrich.
>
position in the windtunnel and were told by Postal management to never do
that again.
Benjamin Weiner
> "Carl Sundquist" <car...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> > This also goes back to the stories that John Cobb et. al. did not work on Heras' TT
> > position. Presumably USPS and LANCE knew 'berto wouldn't be wearing Postal colors forever.
> Dumbass -
> That is interesting. No wonder he still sucks at flat TT.
> I wonder if he asked to do wind tunnel work or if he shares the typical Euro
> racer aversion to that stuff, ala Jan Ullrich.
Dumbasses,
I have never fully believed that story. It had some dodgy sourcing,
something like John Cobb tooting his own horn by saying that USPS
told him not to improve Heras's position any more (as if Cobb was ever
gonna turn Heras into a TT threat to LANCE). Also, once upon a time
Heras said that one reason for moving to USPS was to improve his time
trialing, so he may not have the same aversion as Ullrich. At least
he knows it needs work.
Furthermore, we all know how Heras smoked Nozal in the Vuelta hillclimb TT.
That's the day he won it. But on the second flat TT, which was 53km and
dead flat, Heras lost "only" 1:45 to Nozal and placed 7th; he even put a
minute into Valverde in that TT. That's the day he didn't lose it.
He did bad in the first TT, but for a mini-person, Heras's stinking
in TTs is overrated.
Tom Kunich
news:3Razb.1881$Qd6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Maybe Heras knows more about Armstong than any of us and figures he
can beat
> him in 2004. As for dumb, he must be dumb. After all, he's
sacrificed
> himself for Armstrong for several years. Other than seeing to it
that he's
> paid well, what has Armstrong done for him? Helped Heras in the
Vuelta?
Maybe Heras knows more about Ullrich than any of us and figures he can
beat him in 2004.
Lafferty, is there anything inside that head at all?
Tom Kunich
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> > I think you like "Venga, Venga" about as much as I like Armstrong.
> > That's ok. I'd like to see what Armstrong does with Heras as an
> > adversary next year. It could help make for a very good Tour.
>
> Lance would eat him for lunch, the only thing Heras could go for is
> podium. Heras has improved considerably in the TT since joining
postal,
> in some of the pics you can see they've put some muscle on the boy,
but
> it's not enough to do in some of the mighty all-arounders, such as
> Hamilton, Ullrich and Armstrong.
Yeah, and Roberto wouldn't have anyone to compete with him except
Ullrich, Beloki, Hamilton, Beltran, Basso.........
In the first place the ONLY reason that Roberto would leave is because
he is offered enough money to make him change his mind. There's very
little chance that he could gain a podium position in the Tour and he
is the Postal leader in the Vuelta already.
Add to this the fact that almost all riders require a year or two at a
new team to settle in before they perform and Roberto is a sure thing
loser. Why be stupid unless it pays more than being smart?
Carl Sundquist
contract to thin out the competition?
B. Lafferty
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:91vzb.27072$n56....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Yeah. I'm thinking it might be time for you to increase your meds.
Richard Adams
Seems like a really good option, he's got legs for kicking ass in San
Francisco, which is a pretty tough course.
Roger Ramjet
Like its a given he can gain the 3 - 5 mins improvments he would need to
beat LA or Jan in a 30mi ITT. Forget it.
"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:pBbzb.26515$9O5.622@fed1read06...
>
> "TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20031202205446...@mb-m03.aol.com...
> > >From: "B. Lafferty" Ma...@Italia.com
> >
> > > I'd like to see what Armstrong does with Heras as an adversary next
> > >year. It could help make for a very good Tour.
> > >
> > >If Heras goes, what's the post-Postal Lance count?. I've lost track.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The count's getting pretty high, and It would definitely make the
> mountain
> > stages more interesting, but I think Heras is better suited to shorter
> > steep/pure climber grades than those in the Tour. I could see him
winning
> the
> > Vuelta with ease given a solid team and no other major goal, but I don't
> see
> > him challenging Lance and Jan for the Tour overall.
> > Bill C
>
> That would have to be a huge mental leap. RH has worked with LA and knows
> his strengths/weaknesses. Improving his TT ability would be #1 on the
list
> of things to do to beat LA.
>
> Mike
>
>
Roger Ramjet
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:kzbzb.8152$zL1.1...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
>
> "TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20031202203013...@mb-m03.aol.com...
> > >From: "B. Lafferty" Ma...@Italia.com
> >
> > >Maybe Heras knows more about Armstong than any of us and figures he can
> beat
> > >him in 2004. As for dumb, he must be dumb. After all, he's sacrificed
> > >himself for Armstrong for several years. Other than seeing to it that
he's
> > >paid well, what has Armstrong done for him? Helped Heras in the
Vuelta?
> > >
> > >Brian
Roger Ramjet
Richard Adams
Oh, Heras does very well, he just doesn't do exceptional, which is what
it takes to win the TdF. And to be fair to Nozal, he wasn't even the
pick for his team in the Vuelta, and it became evident as he ran out of
gas in the last week, same as happened to Vino in the TdF. Nozal
actually aqcuitted himself exceptionally well, even in the uphill TT and
is a threat for the future as he matures.
Heras is an excellent tactician, as was evident from an interview with
him in a recent mag, VeloNews IIRC. This is probably the most damaging
thing to USPS, is losing someone who's so well acquainted with their
game plan.
Some questions are:
Is Heras for the TdF and Nozal for the Vuelta?
Does Nozal go from 2nd in the Vuelta to SuperDomestique to the 1st?
How long before Nozal is overshadowing Heras?
Richard Adams
When Roberto left Kelme to join Postal, he was up front that it was
about the money and he's often said he's had no regrets. Now he has a
shot at making even more money, even it he never sees a podium again.
By my reckoning, he could live very well on what he's made in the past
three years and the next three years.
Richard Adams
[knip]
>
> This also frees up a chunk of cash in Postal's budget which should
> make poaching a replacement for Heras pretty easy. And it also removes
> any obligation to make a serious effort in the Vuelta.
>
> cv...@execpc.com
Y'know, it would be kinda cool to see Postal do the Giro instead. Since
they are in the off season for a couple weeks yet, they could shift
their program around, which I wouldn't mind.
Robert Oliver
> This is probably the most damaging
> thing to USPS, is losing someone who's so well acquainted with their
> game plan.
Has the USPS game plan really been a secret for the past 4 years?
John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
>Actually the Walmart in my neck of the woods (NE) hires mostly illegals.
How do you know that?
JT
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Benjamin Weiner
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> > Do both questions have the same answer as: does superstring theory
> > describe how things really are? and, more importantly: who will win
> > the Tour next year?
> That depends on which one of the infinite supply of possible universes
> in which the next tour takes place, and some in which it is cancelled
> due to unforseen events such as a giant meteor hitting France.
I wouldn't worry about that one, Rumsfeld doesn't have control over
the paths of interplanetary objects (yet).
CTRDY01
>> spend it on?
>>
>> Horner?
>>
>> Let's begin the speculation....
>
>Seems like a really good option, he's got legs for kicking ass in San
>Francisco, which is a pretty tough course.
>
>
>
I'll say Garcia Casas
Howard Kveck
wrote:
I'm not at all sure he has control of his own mouth:
"There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That
is to say there are things we now know we don't know. But there are also
unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. So when we
do the best we can we see only the known knowns and the known unknowns. And
each year we discover a few more of those unknown unknowns - the absence of
evidence is nnot evidence of absence."
Got it?
--
tanx,
Howard
"Danger, you haven't seen the last of me!"
"No, but the first of you turns my stomach!"
Firesign Theatre
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Gary
Lance retires after winning his sixth (maybe) and Postal tells Heras
will NOT be the new team leader after that. Or Roberto can't get them to
commit to him. Heras says adios.
Gary
Richard Adams
Well, there's what they do, which other teams can see, but why and when,
that's something the riders would know.
jim gravity
THAT, would be cool.
Richard Adams
He probably won't, either. As things continue to go to shit there's
been spin that DR is out of favor. Expect him to take the blame and
fall for the Iraq mess. George's Thanksgiving trip was quickly
forgotten with the latest crisis.
I suggest we take all these reality show people and put them on bikes
and have a Tour of Iraq, wouldn't that be fun? There'd be a taste of
reality alright.
Bob Schwartz
> OK, now that Postal will get a big hunk of cash from Saiz, who will they
> spend it on?
> Horner?
Horner is 32. Johan needs someone who can be an impact player in the
mountains RIGHT NOW! Horner is not that guy.
Especially when there are so many hungry, underpaid Spaniards. That's
the approach he's taken before.
Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com
Steven
> "pedalchick" <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message >
> > Personally, I'd hate to see Heras leave Postal beacause watching
> > Armstrong and Heras beat up on everyone in '02 was awesome, but the guy
> > could be a great tour rider if he can get his TT'ing (on the flats) up
> > to speed. There are few better that Saiz at turning out good TT'ers.
> >
>
> This also goes back to the stories that John Cobb et. al. did not work on Heras' TT
> position. Presumably USPS and LANCE knew 'berto wouldn't be wearing Postal colors forever.
WRONG!
http://www.trekbikes.com/news/news_detail.jsp?articleId=1821&category=hot_news
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/bigblow.html
Alex Rodriguez
says...
>Actually the Walmart in my neck of the woods (NE) hires mostly illegals.
Sounds like speculation at best. How do you know they are illegals?
----------------
Alex
Tuschinski
> Anything looks spectacular when your main competition is a bunch of
> second-rate riders. Let's see anorexic Spanish boy pull that nonsense on
> Alpe d'Huez next year against Lance in the REAL Tour.
> The Vuelta, much like the Giro, is for riders who get blown out the back
> on GC in the Tour de France. The racers who race them are like the
> special education class in pro cycling.
> Botereo, all the Gonzalezes, Heras, that punta Sevilla....those guys are
> little-boy prostitutes in the Tour de France.
Ohhh... so thats why Indurain couldn't win the Vuelta.
--
Tom Kunich
news:vsu7c0q...@corp.supernews.com...
> Maybe this is underneath:
> Lance retires after winning his sixth (maybe) and Postal tells Heras
> will NOT be the new team leader after that. Or Roberto can't get
them to
> commit to him. Heras says adios.
And it has nothing to do with that. Roberto won the Vuelta and his
agent told him that he should be making x-bucks and postal wasn't
paying that so they looked elsewhere. It's all about the bucks
Tom Kunich
>
> Yeah. I'm thinking it might be time for you to increase your meds.
Yeah, you thinking that Heras stands a chance to finish in the top 10
in the Tour is proof enough who needs meds.
Carl Sundquist
You mean like in '02 when he was 9th while working as a domestique and soft pedaling the
individual tt's?
Benjamin Weiner
> > I wouldn't worry about that one, Rumsfeld doesn't have control over
> > the paths of interplanetary objects (yet).
> >
> I'm not at all sure he has control of his own mouth:
> "There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That
> is to say there are things we now know we don't know. But there are also
> unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. So when we
> do the best we can we see only the known knowns and the known unknowns. And
> each year we discover a few more of those unknown unknowns - the absence of
> evidence is nnot evidence of absence."
> Got it?
I think he cribbed that from those damn superstring theory physicists.
I never can understand what they are on about, either.
Ben
p.s. It really does sound like something Ed Witten would say on NOVA.
Howard Kveck
wrote:
> Howard Kveck <YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
It sorta sounded like something a college student who's just smoked his
first joint might say - in the throes of thinking he's, like, deep, ya
know? But he's really, like, confused, ya know?
I wonder if the headline writer at the Philly Inky is trying to make a
subtle point with this one:
"Rumsfeld meets rival warlords in Afghan visit."
Heh.
Richard Adams
Well, Mr Mathematician, consider that the latest word is that Heras is
only getting the same pay he was on postal, 1.2 million euros/annum.
Add to that the split he will no longer get should Armstrong win the
tour and toss in some of his own money. That was some serious pocket
change. If he doesn't podium, he's sold himself short for 2004.
Richard Adams
Life is simpler if you just ride along and shoot Silly String at tifosi,
that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
Carl Sundquist
"Benjamin Weiner" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message news:3fd1899f$1@darkstar...
Actually, I was thinking it sounded like Dan Quayle:
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How
true that is."
"It's rural America. It's where I came from. We always refer to ourselves as real America.
Rural America, real America, real, real, America."
http://www.xmission.com/~mwalker/DQ/quayle/qq/quayle.quotes.html
Tom Kunich
Wrong. Heras got a three year contract and if Lance gets a 6th he'll
probably bail and Postal will probably drop out of the game leaving
anyone on the team free.
Tom Kunich
Everyone is getting the idea of Lance's "formula" now and more and
more people will be able to work his game. Heras is only good on the
very steepest of climbs and he ain't no Pantani.
It remains to be seen but I'd bet you a beer that he is 5th or lower.
B. Lafferty
Nah. I think Armstrong will be in the top five.
Howard Kveck
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
The last time I checked, fifth is in the top ten. Right?
Carl Sundquist
"Howard Kveck" <YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah. I'm thinking it might be time for you to increase your
> > meds.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, you thinking that Heras stands a chance to finish in the top
> > 10
> > > > in the Tour is proof enough who needs meds.
> > >
> > > You mean like in '02 when he was 9th while working as a domestique
> > and soft pedaling the
> > > individual tt's?
> >
> > Everyone is getting the idea of Lance's "formula" now and more and
> > more people will be able to work his game. Heras is only good on the
> > very steepest of climbs and he ain't no Pantani.
> >
> > It remains to be seen but I'd bet you a beer that he is 5th or lower.
>
> The last time I checked, fifth is in the top ten. Right?
>
It depends on your meds.
Howard Kveck
"Carl Sundquist" <car...@cox-internet.com> wrote:
Beer counts as meds, I suppose. For some people, it's a food group.
Amit
>
> Everyone is getting the idea of Lance's "formula" now and more and
> more people will be able to work his game.
Tell me, what's Lance's formula that everyone is "getting" and how
they will be able to "work his game".
-Amit
Richard Adams
If you watch the mountain top stages Lance wins, he tries to attack
late. Too early and he flames out before the finish. This year, on the
way to Luz Ardiden, Lance built up a larger lead on Ullrich than he
ended with. IIRC he was over a minute up on Jan, but won by 40 seconds.
Attacking Lance early, particularly if your team is loaded up with
people who can, i.e. Vino, you make him expend that explosive burst
before he can unleash it on you.
ronde chumpion
OH MY GOD!!!!! THAT COULD ACTUALLY WORK! QUICK....SEND OUT THE
MESSAGE TO THE TEAMS DIRECTLY. FIND CONTACT INFO AT WWW.UCI.CH. I
GUARANTEE YOU WILL BE GIVEN FULL CREDIT ON JULY 26, 2004 FOR SUCH A
BRILLIANT PLAN.
AND TO THINK, ALL THIS TIME, THE RIVALS WERE NOT ATTACKING EARLY
ENOUGH. I SAY WHY WAIT TILL JULY. ULLRICH SHOULD ATTACK NOW. TODAY!!!
ONE QUESTION...EVER RIDDEN A BICYCLE???? FxxKNUTS.
Tom Paterson
>Heras got a three year contract and if Lance gets a 6th he'll
>probably bail and Postal will probably drop out of the game leaving
>anyone on the team free.
Could go that way. But Merckx has said Lance could win 7; along those lines, #6
could lead to "one more year" for Postal, despite pressure to end their USPS
sponsorship (change in primary sponsor?), and LA's burnout factor. There are
also the classics, LBL and Amstel Gold that I think Lance wants pretty badly,
where the media circus is less a problem.
We criss-crossed all over the area the Posties were allegedly riding in
yesterday, didn't see them. Sorry I didn't get the chance to interview... --TP
Richard Adams
> Richard Adams <ack...@concentric.net> wrote in message news:<bquflq$h...@dispatch.concentric.net>...
>
>>Amit wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<AKnAb.2301
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Everyone is getting the idea of Lance's "formula" now and more and
>>>>more people will be able to work his game.
>>>
>>>
>>>Tell me, what's Lance's formula that everyone is "getting" and how
>>>they will be able to "work his game".
>>>
>>>-Amit
>>
>>If you watch the mountain top stages Lance wins, he tries to attack
>>late. Too early and he flames out before the finish. This year, on the
>>way to Luz Ardiden, Lance built up a larger lead on Ullrich than he
>>ended with. IIRC he was over a minute up on Jan, but won by 40 seconds.
>> Attacking Lance early, particularly if your team is loaded up with
>>people who can, i.e. Vino, you make him expend that explosive burst
>>before he can unleash it on you.
>
> OH MY GOD!!!!! THAT COULD ACTUALLY WORK!
'03 was the first time they tried this tactic. In '02 the opposition
just sat an waited for Rubiera and Heras to crack everyone before Lance
attacked. In '01 pretty much the same thing. The attacking made it a
nailbiter for sure, but for LA it was harrowing. What gets me is why it
took the other teams years to figure this out.
Tom Kunich
news:20031207102615...@mb-m22.aol.com...
> >From: "Tom Kunich"
>
> >Heras got a three year contract and if Lance gets a 6th he'll
> >probably bail and Postal will probably drop out of the game leaving
> >anyone on the team free.
>
> Could go that way. But Merckx has said Lance could win 7; along
those lines, #6
> could lead to "one more year" for Postal, despite pressure to end
their USPS
> sponsorship (change in primary sponsor?), and LA's burnout factor.
There are
> also the classics, LBL and Amstel Gold that I think Lance wants
pretty badly,
> where the media circus is less a problem.
Anything could happen but obviously a three year contract with
guarantees is a hell of a lot better than one more year and then
"maybe".
> We criss-crossed all over the area the Posties were allegedly riding
in
> yesterday, didn't see them. Sorry I didn't get the chance to
interview... --TP
It was reasonable weather in the afternoon and I went out and did a
short 25 miles but with a good 2000 feet of climbing just to keep the
legs moving. Today I went out and with a young kid and his father so
we just piddled along. The frame he was on was too small so after we
got back I gave him a 54 I had on the wall.
Tom Kunich
>
> '03 was the first time they tried this tactic. In '02 the
opposition
> just sat an waited for Rubiera and Heras to crack everyone before
Lance
> attacked. In '01 pretty much the same thing. The attacking made it
a
> nailbiter for sure, but for LA it was harrowing. What gets me is
why it
> took the other teams years to figure this out.
In 2001 (just finished watching it again) Ulrich tries that. The
problem is that you have to have two guys capable of winning on your
team and then one attacks and the other sits on Lance's wheel and does
the same thing to Lance that Lance has been doing to Ullrich.
Lance is not as strong a rider as Jan but he has a very explosive
attack and he can get a minute here and a minute there by pulling out
the stops at exactly the right instant. I don't think that Lance knows
when to do this, I think it is mostly coming from Bryneel.
BVM
(after riding for Kelme) and perhaps notoriety, but then he ended up
just being a chore boy for Lance when he was a major tour winner.
Besides his language is Spanish. Don't you think he wants to just talk
in Spanish all the time to people who speak Spanish in his home
country?
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 01:17:51 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <Ma...@Italia.com>
wrote:
>Maybe Heras knows more about Armstong than any of us and figures he can beat
>him in 2004. As for dumb, he must be dumb. After all, he's sacrificed
>himself for Armstrong for several years. Other than seeing to it that he's
>paid well, what has Armstrong done for him? Helped Heras in the Vuelta?
>
>Brian
>
>
>"TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20031202201237...@mb-m03.aol.com...
>> >From: "B. Lafferty" Ma...@Italia.com
>>
>> >Perhaps Heras this time.
>> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/dec03/dec03news
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Is Heras dumb enough to ride for "Venga Venga"? This would be enough to
>get
>> him a Vuelta win, I'm sure. I can't remeber what the song I heard was the
>other
>> day but the chorus was "Venga, Venga, Venga, something!" Couldn't help but
>> think of the escapades on the road of our favorite director.
>> Bill C
>
BVM
and grew in stature. Heras was already a major tour winner, but then
took a secondary role. Maybe Heras is not really sure what he wants
except that he doesn't really mesh well with the English speaking
riders. I mean how many English speaking fans are really even aware of
the Spanish riders? Lots of Spanish riders come to the Tour, but if
you look on the fantasy teams, nobody picks them. They are not even
interviewed (with translations) by the English speaking media.
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:09:32 -0800, "Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet>
wrote:
>
>"TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20031202205446...@mb-m03.aol.com...
>> >From: "B. Lafferty" Ma...@Italia.com
>>
>> > I'd like to see what Armstrong does with Heras as an adversary next
>> >year. It could help make for a very good Tour.
>> >
>> >If Heras goes, what's the post-Postal Lance count?. I've lost track.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> The count's getting pretty high, and It would definitely make the
>mountain
>> stages more interesting, but I think Heras is better suited to shorter
>> steep/pure climber grades than those in the Tour. I could see him winning
>the
>> Vuelta with ease given a solid team and no other major goal, but I don't
>see
>> him challenging Lance and Jan for the Tour overall.
>> Bill C
>
>That would have to be a huge mental leap. RH has worked with LA and knows
>his strengths/weaknesses. Improving his TT ability would be #1 on the list
>of things to do to beat LA.
>
>Mike
>
John Forrest Tomlinson
>But wasn't Heras' main reason to go to USPS for income stability
>(after riding for Kelme) and perhaps notoriety, but then he ended up
>just being a chore boy for Lance when he was a major tour winner.
Just a chore boy? He had the entire team working for him for two
years in a major tour, getting second one year and winning it the
next.
JT
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B. Lafferty
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <20...@jt10000removethesewords.com> wrote in message
news:3fd70ba9...@news.verizon.net...
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:32:44 GMT, BVM <bvon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >But wasn't Heras' main reason to go to USPS for income stability
> >(after riding for Kelme) and perhaps notoriety, but then he ended up
> >just being a chore boy for Lance when he was a major tour winner.
>
> Just a chore boy? He had the entire team working for him for two
> years in a major tour, getting second one year and winning it the
> next.
>
> JT
Entire team? I wasn't aware that Armstong did the Vuelta in support of
Heras. :-)
Andy Birko
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <20...@jt10000removethesewords.com> wrote in message
news:3fd70ba9...@news.verizon.net...
>
> >But wasn't Heras' main reason to go to USPS for income stability
> >(after riding for Kelme) and perhaps notoriety, but then he ended up
> >just being a chore boy for Lance when he was a major tour winner.
>
> Just a chore boy? He had the entire team working for him for two
> years in a major tour, getting second one year and winning it the
> next.
>
Make that 2.5 years - he was team leader the year Levi took 3rd in the
Vuelta until Levi passed him.