Tour-de-France stage 14 summary

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Bob Martin

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Jul 16, 2006, 1:22:59 PM7/16/06
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Changes in stage 14 compared to stage 13

Biggest gainers by position :
+20 Sébastien Hinault
+19 Salvatore Commesso
+18 Anthony Geslin
+17 David Lopez
+15 Inaki Isasi
+14 Marco Velo
+13 Moises Duenas
+12 Iker Camano
+12 Francisco Ventoso
+11 Stuart O'Grady

Biggest losers by position :
-32 Philippe Gilbert
-21 Christian Knees
-17 Gilberto Simoni
-17 Riccardo Ricco
-13 Matthias Kessler
-13 Walter Beneteau
-12 David Kopp
-11 José Rujano
-9 Alessandro Ballan
-8 Andriy Grivko
-8 Beat Zberg

Biggest gainers by time :
+0:35 Pierrick Fedrigo
+0:25 Salvatore Commesso
+0:12 Christian Vandevelde

Biggest losers by time :
-31:58 Philippe Gilbert
-22:01 Gert Steegmans
-19:55 Christian Knees
-19:55 David Kopp
-19:55 Gilberto Simoni
-19:55 Riccardo Ricco
-16:53 Beat Zberg
-16:53 José Rujano
-16:53 Samuel Dumoulin
-16:53 Sébastien Joly
-16:53 Walter Beneteau

Favourites by position :
+11 Stefano Garzelli
+7 Serguei Gonchar
+3 George Hincapie
+1 Damiano Cunego
-7 David Moncoutié
-17 Gilberto Simoni

Favourites by time :
-2:11 Serguei Gonchar
-12:49 David Moncoutié
-19:55 Gilberto Simoni

Top 3 and favourites standings :
1 Oscar Pereiro 64.05.04
2 Floyd Landis 1.29
3 Cyril Dessel 1.37
4 Denis Menchov 2.30
5 Cadel Evans 2.46
6 Carlos Sastre 3.21
7 Andreas Klöden 3.58
8 Michael Rogers 4.51
9 Juan Miguel Mercado 5.02
10 Christophe Moreau 5.13
.....
15 Levi Leipheimer 7.08
16 Michael Boogerd 7.23
17 Georg Totschnig 8.16
.....
27 Pietro Caucchioli 13.04
.....
33 Damiano Cunego 18.01
.....
38 George Hincapie 24.28
.....
45 Stefano Garzelli 34.20
.....
50 Serguei Gonchar 36.54
.....
52 Gilberto Simoni 37.58
.....
72 David Moncoutié 49.59

Retirements to date :
Agritubel José Alberto Martinez DNF 12
" Samuel Plouhinec DNF 12
Bouygues Telecom Laurent Brochard DNS 10
Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears Alejandro Valverde DNF 3
" Isaac Galvez DNF 12
Cofidis Rik Verbrugghe DNF 14 <<
Crédit Agricole Jimmy Engoulvent DNF 10
Davitamon-Lotto Fred Rodriguez DNF 3
Discovery Channel Benjamin Noval DNF 12
" Paolo Savoldelli DNF 12
Euskaltel-Euskadi Iban Mayo DNF 11
Liquigas Danilo Di Luca DNS 2
" Magnus Backstedt DNF 14 <<
Milram Fabio Sacchi DNS 6
" Mirko Celestino DNF 14 <<
Quick-Step-Innergetic Wilfried Cretskens DNF 11
Rabobank Erik Dekker DNF 3
Saunier Duval David Canada DNF 14 <<
Team CSC Bobby Julich DNF 7
" Giovanni Lombardi DNF 11
Total retirements : 20

Meg Worley

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Jul 16, 2006, 2:06:02 PM7/16/06
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Bob writes:
> Cofidis Rik Verbrugghe DNF 14 <<

I really like the new way of showing the abandons -- thanks, Bob!

(Poor Rik Verbrugghe. Poor David Canada. And definitely poor Mattias Kessler.)


Rage away,

meg


--

Meg Worley _._ m...@steam.stanford.edu _._ Comparatively Literate

Ewoud Dronkert

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Jul 16, 2006, 2:37:36 PM7/16/06
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Bob Martin schreef:
> Biggest losers by time :
> -19:55 Gilberto Simoni

Aha! Taking 3 rest days in a row and shine in the Alps? Here's hoping

E.
-fan

Ewoud Dronkert

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Jul 16, 2006, 2:48:03 PM7/16/06
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Meg Worley schreef:

> (Poor Rik Verbrugghe. Poor David Canada. And definitely poor Mattias Kessler.)

Mario Aerts commented that Kessler would probably have won were it not
for the fall, he was the strongest. More importantly Aerts
(Davitamon-Lotto) also said that when he heard that Quickstep-Innergetic
had started chasing, he gave it his all until he was spent. He was
already tired and didn't think he would make it to the line with the
other two, but better that one of them won than that the QS led peloton
would make it back in front...

--
E. Dronkert

Donald Munro

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Jul 16, 2006, 2:53:52 PM7/16/06
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Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> Mario Aerts commented that Kessler would probably have won were it not
> for the fall, he was the strongest. More importantly Aerts
> (Davitamon-Lotto) also said that when he heard that Quickstep-Innergetic
> had started chasing, he gave it his all until he was spent. He was
> already tired and didn't think he would make it to the line with the
> other two, but better that one of them won than that the QS led peloton
> would make it back in front...

I wonder what made Boonen think he would be able to make it over that
climb with the lead group anyway.

trg

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Jul 16, 2006, 5:35:25 PM7/16/06
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"Ewoud Dronkert" <firs...@lastname.net.invalid> a écrit dans le message de
news: 44ba877e$0$31651$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...

I happened to watch the stage on France television today and they chose
today to put their guy in the car with the DS of SDV. Simoni was
unfortunately not trying to conserve energy. Tough stage for the DS who had
a guy in the break and his leader falling off the back.


trg

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Jul 16, 2006, 5:38:27 PM7/16/06
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"Ewoud Dronkert" <firs...@lastname.net.invalid> a écrit dans le message de
news: 44ba89f1$0$31648$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...

Jalabert, who follows the break aways said (before the crash) that Kessler
and Fedrigo were clearly the two strongest today in the break. Whether
Kessler would have won is a question. Fedrigo is a pretty cool customer as
we saw today, and the way he won the French title last year.


Simon Brooke

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Jul 16, 2006, 5:33:58 PM7/16/06
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in message <44ba877e$0$31651$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>, Ewoud Dronkert
('firs...@lastname.net.invalid') wrote:

Well, that's pissed on his pretentions to be a GC contender. Not that he
ever was, the nasty little man.

> -fan

-non-fan.

--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

to err is human, to lisp divine
;; attributed to Kim Philby, oddly enough.

Tom Kunich

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Jul 16, 2006, 9:48:13 PM7/16/06
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"trg" <t...@world.REMOVETHIS.std.com> wrote in message
news:44bab1d6$0$23109$626a...@news.free.fr...

>
> Jalabert, who follows the break aways said (before the crash) that Kessler
> and Fedrigo were clearly the two strongest today in the break. Whether
> Kessler would have won is a question. Fedrigo is a pretty cool customer as
> we saw today, and the way he won the French title last year.

France does deserve a real Tour hero. With any luck between him and Voeckler
they may actually get some real air time.


Kurgan Gringioni

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Jul 16, 2006, 11:01:06 PM7/16/06
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Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> France does deserve a real Tour hero.

Dumbass -


Why do they "deserve" anything?

Their development system clearly sucks. Why does mediocrity "deserve"
to be rewarded?

You remind me of the supporters of the California public school system
where everyone gets a diploma whether or not they can read.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Carl Sundquist

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Jul 16, 2006, 11:03:45 PM7/16/06
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"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153105266.5...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

>
> Why do they "deserve" anything?
>
> Their development system clearly sucks. Why does mediocrity "deserve"
> to be rewarded?

How would you rate the US development system on a relative basis?


Kurgan Gringioni

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Jul 17, 2006, 1:15:34 AM7/17/06
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Dumbass -


I'm not talking about the stuff funded by the federations. The French
system as a whole must suck, otherwise they'd turn out contenders.

I can't really say the US "system" as a whole is all that great, but
the proof is in the pudding - we have GC contenders, quite a few of
them and the French have none even though it's their national tour and
French teams get preferential entry treatment, etc. If their system was
of high quality, they'd turn out sime high quality riders wouldn't
they?

The results from 2005 bear this out: USA has 7 riders in the Tour, 5
finish in the top 20, 3 in the top 10, including the overall win.
France has 26 riders in the Tour, one rider in the top 20, none in the
top 10. Or the results from the last 20 years. USA has 10 GC victories,
France has no overall GC victories in the last 20 years.

So: our system isn't all that great, therefore theirs must really,
really suck.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

amit....@gmail.com

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Jul 17, 2006, 1:33:45 AM7/17/06
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Tom Kunich wrote:

> France does deserve a real Tour hero. With any luck between him and Voeckler
> they may actually get some real air time.

dumbass,

voeckler is a douche. i hate him. how he's all over his bike like some
twelve year old and yo-yoing off the backs of groups. he got the yellow
somehow but he is far from france's best rider.

amit....@gmail.com

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Jul 17, 2006, 1:38:18 AM7/17/06
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Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> The results from 2005 bear this out: USA has 7 riders in the Tour, 5
> finish in the top 20, 3 in the top 10, including the overall win.
> France has 26 riders in the Tour, one rider in the top 20, none in the
> top 10. Or the results from the last 20 years. USA has 10 GC victories,
> France has no overall GC victories in the last 20 years.

dumbass,

in the '97 tour brochard, virenque, rous, mengin all won stages.
festina was the best team and virenque was second on GC. you know what
happened to festina in '98 and french cycling has sucked since then.

sonarrat

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Jul 17, 2006, 2:32:34 AM7/17/06
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Dumbass,

Voeckler is far from France's best rider, but his fearless attacking
style makes up for his deficiencies and contributes greatly to his
proclivity, and aptitude, for one-day races. I'll take him over that
washrag Chavanel any day.

b...@mambo.ucolick.org

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Jul 17, 2006, 3:32:51 AM7/17/06
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sonarrat wrote:
> amit....@gmail.com wrote:

> > voeckler is a douche. i hate him. how he's all over his bike like some
> > twelve year old and yo-yoing off the backs of groups. he got the yellow
> > somehow but he is far from france's best rider.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> Voeckler is far from France's best rider, but his fearless attacking
> style makes up for his deficiencies and contributes greatly to his
> proclivity, and aptitude, for one-day races. I'll take him over that
> washrag Chavanel any day.

Voeckler's attacks aren't "fearless." They are "doomed."
He has nothing to fear because he isn't actually gambling
a chance to win. He attacks, and rides himself into the
ground, at times when he has no reasonable chance of
using the attack to pull off a win. He gets on TV a lot, which
is good for the sponsor, but if it hadn't been for having the
yellow jersey as a baby, he wouldn't get so much airtime.

Among the Frenchmen, Calzati's stage winning attack,
and Moncoutie's stage wins in 2004 and 2005, are
much better examples of smart attacking in bike racing.
Save your energy, go at the right time, when your rivals
will look at each other for a moment, and give it everything.
These are real gambles, because if they do organize a
chase, you're probably hosed and you've used your chance.

Simon Brooke

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Jul 17, 2006, 6:02:40 AM7/17/06
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in message <1153114425....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

He got the yellow in exactly the same way he lost time last Thursday - by
putting total commitment into something that had no real chance of
succeeding. It's that cheerful insouciant uncalculating unstrategic
willingness to give it everything he's got - and then a bit more - even
when it's obviously hopeless, that's attractive about him. That and the
fact that he seems to actually enjoy riding a bike. And that he never
seems to have a bad word to say about anyone.

No, I agree: not a great rider. Not a great player of the game of bluff
and counter bluff, of calculation and deceit and betrayal and
provisional allegiances which make cycling as a sport so interesting to
watch. But a hero, definitely.

,/| _.--''^``-...___.._.,;
/, \'. _-' ,--,,,--'''
{ \ `_-'' ' /
`;;' ; ; ;
._..--'' ._,,, _..' .;.'
(,_....----''' (,..--''


Tuschinski

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Jul 17, 2006, 6:52:10 AM7/17/06
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Tuschinski

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Jul 17, 2006, 6:57:14 AM7/17/06
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Lots of ifs and buts, but Boonen is among the better climbers of the
sprinters. If they caught the escapees and the course hadn't exploded
on the last climb it could have been a group sprint.

The final climb wasn't exceptionally though and Boonen is very strong.
Someone who contends in Flandres and Milan-San Remo can take climbs
like these. But Boonen isn't in top-shape atm and Rabo took things in
hand.

Donald Munro

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Jul 17, 2006, 7:06:42 AM7/17/06
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Donald Munro wrote:
>> I wonder what made Boonen think he would be able to make it over that
>> climb with the lead group anyway.
Tuschinski wrote:
> Lots of ifs and buts, but Boonen is among the better climbers of the
> sprinters. If they caught the escapees and the course hadn't exploded
> on the last climb it could have been a group sprint.

That climb was a lot tougher than it looked on tv. For one thing the road
surface was pretty rough which can make climbs tougher than they at
first appear, and it wasn't a short climb either. A lot of better climbers
than Boonen didn't make it into the lead bunch; I doubt if Boonen even at
his current classic best would have been able to hang in.

Tuschinski

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Jul 17, 2006, 7:53:40 AM7/17/06
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> I doubt if Boonen even at
> his current classic best would have been able to hang in.

Considering how it went: nope, fully agreed.

On a side note:

71 Alexandre Moos (Swi) Phonak
7.44

Then a group:

72 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto
8.04
73 Erik Zabel (Ger) Milram

Seems Zabel and McEwen sprinted^ for the applause^^

Tuschinski

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Jul 17, 2006, 7:57:16 AM7/17/06
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>
> 72 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto
> 8.04
> 73 Erik Zabel (Ger) Milram
>
> Seems Zabel and McEwen sprinted^ for the applause^^

Heh, guess not:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tour06/index.php?id=/photos/2006/tour06/tour0614/11

Just leading the bunch.

RonSonic

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Jul 17, 2006, 9:19:50 AM7/17/06
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On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:06:42 +0200, Donald Munro <fat-d...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

If it were part of a classic, which is to say a single race that Boonen could
prepare for specifically and arrive rested and ready, he'd be a very strong
contender and could probably hang.

Not today, not with him already pounded by this last week of riding.

Ron

Donald Munro

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Jul 17, 2006, 9:46:14 AM7/17/06
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Donald Munro wrote:
>>That climb was a lot tougher than it looked on tv. For one thing the road
>>surface was pretty rough which can make climbs tougher than they at
>>first appear, and it wasn't a short climb either. A lot of better climbers
>>than Boonen didn't make it into the lead bunch; I doubt if Boonen even at
>>his current classic best would have been able to hang in.

RonSonic wrote:
> If it were part of a classic, which is to say a single race that Boonen could
> prepare for specifically and arrive rested and ready, he'd be a very strong
> contender and could probably hang.

If he could stay with the best climbers on a cat 2 then he'd be able to
win LBL easily. But I think he'd have to donate a testicle and
change some of his muscle fibres before he'd be able to do that.

yeahyeah

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Jul 17, 2006, 10:18:23 AM7/17/06
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b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> sonarrat wrote:
> > amit....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > voeckler is a douche. i hate him. how he's all over his bike like some
> > > twelve year old and yo-yoing off the backs of groups. he got the yellow
> > > somehow but he is far from france's best rider.
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > Voeckler is far from France's best rider, but his fearless attacking
> > style makes up for his deficiencies and contributes greatly to his
> > proclivity, and aptitude, for one-day races. I'll take him over that
> > washrag Chavanel any day.
>
> Voeckler's attacks aren't "fearless." They are "doomed."
> He has nothing to fear because he isn't actually gambling
> a chance to win. He attacks, and rides himself into the
> ground, at times when he has no reasonable chance of
> using the attack to pull off a win. He gets on TV a lot, which
> is good for the sponsor, but if it hadn't been for having the
> yellow jersey as a baby, he wouldn't get so much airtime.
>

Was Voeckler coached by Jacky Durand?

Tom Kunich

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Jul 17, 2006, 2:04:50 PM7/17/06
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"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153105266.5...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> France does deserve a real Tour hero.
>
> Why do they "deserve" anything?

Because they support the Tour every year regardless. All those little towns
pay a fortune to ASO to start a stage and in come cases even to just pass
through.

> Their development system clearly sucks. Why does mediocrity "deserve"
> to be rewarded?

Tell me about that French track team you beat again?

> You remind me of the supporters of the California public school system
> where everyone gets a diploma whether or not they can read.

What if the majority of the French players WERE clean and they were losing
simply because of the doping? Surely you remember Charly Mottet who Kimmage
claimed was a pure as the driven snow and whose career was destoyed in the
EPO era?

I suggest you try to grow up. Or better yet go out for a bicycle ride if you
can even sit on a saddle anymore.


Tom Kunich

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Jul 17, 2006, 2:07:14 PM7/17/06
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<b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message
news:1153121571.2...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

> sonarrat wrote:
>> amit....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> > voeckler is a douche. i hate him. how he's all over his bike like some
>> > twelve year old and yo-yoing off the backs of groups. he got the yellow
>> > somehow but he is far from france's best rider.
>>
>> Dumbass,
>>
>> Voeckler is far from France's best rider, but his fearless attacking
>> style makes up for his deficiencies and contributes greatly to his
>> proclivity, and aptitude, for one-day races. I'll take him over that
>> washrag Chavanel any day.
>
> Voeckler's attacks aren't "fearless." They are "doomed."

There are those of us who remember Claudio Chiapucci but then I suppose
that's ancient history to you.


Tom Kunich

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Jul 17, 2006, 2:08:13 PM7/17/06
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"Simon Brooke" <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:0r3so3-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...

> in message <1153114425....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> amit....@gmail.com ('amit....@gmail.com') wrote:
>
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>> France does deserve a real Tour hero. With any luck between him and
>>> Voeckler they may actually get some real air time.
>>
>> voeckler is a douche. i hate him. how he's all over his bike like some
>> twelve year old and yo-yoing off the backs of groups. he got the yellow
>> somehow but he is far from france's best rider.
>
> He got the yellow in exactly the same way he lost time last Thursday - by
> putting total commitment into something that had no real chance of
> succeeding.

I wonder if anyone can recall the way Hinault rode.


Carl Sundquist

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Jul 17, 2006, 7:44:41 PM7/17/06
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"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153113334.3...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

We had two outliers.


Carl Sundquist

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Jul 17, 2006, 9:19:28 PM7/17/06
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"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153113334.3...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>> >
>> > Their development system clearly sucks. Why does mediocrity "deserve"
>> > to be rewarded?
>>
>> How would you rate the US development system on a relative basis?
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I'm not talking about the stuff funded by the federations. The French
> system as a whole must suck, otherwise they'd turn out contenders.
>
> I can't really say the US "system" as a whole is all that great, but
> the proof is in the pudding - we have GC contenders, quite a few of
> them and the French have none even though it's their national tour and
> French teams get preferential entry treatment, etc. If their system was
> of high quality, they'd turn out sime high quality riders wouldn't
> they?
>
> The results from 2005 bear this out: USA has 7 riders in the Tour, 5
> finish in the top 20, 3 in the top 10, including the overall win.
> France has 26 riders in the Tour, one rider in the top 20, none in the
> top 10. Or the results from the last 20 years. USA has 10 GC victories,
> France has no overall GC victories in the last 20 years.
>
> So: our system isn't all that great, therefore theirs must really,
> really suck.

The Tour has evolved. Just as the riders composed by national teams then
trade teams, the tour, while named for France, run by a French organization,
and held predominately on French soil is no more about French riders than
Wimbledon is about British tennis players.

What is the US system? Has it developed riders of such quality and quantity
that it can hold its own closed national criterium championship? How many of
the riders on the only US based team to ride the Tour in 2005 were American?

If the French didn't give their teams preferential entry treatment, would
the Tour be more competitive with more US riders?

Belgium's system must suck. They haven't had a GC winner in 30 years. The
Dutch, 26 years. Sure Spain has won 6 times in the past 18 years, but what
have they done lately?

If the US's system isn't all that great, ergo France's really sucks, using
the metrics you've listed above which country has a 'system' that's really
good?


Kurgan Gringioni

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Jul 17, 2006, 10:23:09 PM7/17/06
to

Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
> Belgium's system must suck. They haven't had a GC winner in 30 years. The
> Dutch, 26 years. Sure Spain has won 6 times in the past 18 years, but what
> have they done lately?

Dumbass -


Belgium's system doesn't suck. They win one day races instead of 3 week
tours. France sucks. They can't do well at those either.


> If the US's system isn't all that great, ergo France's really sucks, using
> the metrics you've listed above which country has a 'system' that's really
> good?


Italy, Spain, Australia and Germany produce a slew of good riders who
win a variety of events. Australia, especially so since they're a small
country far removed from Europe or any major professional racing
circuit. Australian stereotype: sprinters and prologue guys although
they have Rogers and Evans. Spain, almost climbers, although they have
exceptions to this rule, Friere the sprinter and Flecha the cobbles
guy. Italy: all sorts of accomplished riders, the #1 nation in UCI
points. Germany: all sorts of versatile riders: Ullrich, Voight, Zabel,
Kloden, Kessler, and on and on and on.

France? They are Suckitude. They should definitly be much better than
us, considering that the biggest race in the world is French and so is,
arguably, the second biggest race in the world (Paris-Roubaix).


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

b...@mambo.ucolick.org

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Jul 17, 2006, 10:58:37 PM7/17/06
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Carl Sundquist wrote:

> What is the US system? Has it developed riders of such quality and quantity
> that it can hold its own closed national criterium championship?

Do any of the other major cycling countries even have
a national criterium championship?

Ben
p.s. If you count Masters, the US has more champions than
any other country, ergo it is Number One!

Carl Sundquist

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Jul 17, 2006, 11:02:37 PM7/17/06
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<b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message
news:1153191517.8...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
>> What is the US system? Has it developed riders of such quality and
>> quantity
>> that it can hold its own closed national criterium championship?
>
> Do any of the other major cycling countries even have
> a national criterium championship?
>

Thanks for reinforcing my point. We're the only 'major' cycling country with
a national criterium championship and still can't fill out the field
qualitatively.


b...@mambo.ucolick.org

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Jul 17, 2006, 11:18:53 PM7/17/06
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Carl Sundquist wrote:

> <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > Carl Sundquist wrote:
> >
> >> What is the US system? Has it developed riders of such quality and
> >> quantity
> >> that it can hold its own closed national criterium championship?
> >
> > Do any of the other major cycling countries even have
> > a national criterium championship?
>
> Thanks for reinforcing my point. We're the only 'major' cycling country with
> a national criterium championship and still can't fill out the field
> qualitatively.

That was my point - we're the only 'major' cycling country
(AFAIK) whose domestic circuit is so reliant on
round-the-block races that we have a championship for them.

Ben
crits are hard and I sucked at them

Donald Munro

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Jul 18, 2006, 4:00:11 AM7/18/06
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b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>> > Do any of the other major cycling countries even have
>> > a national criterium championship?
>> > p.s. If you count Masters, the US has more champions than
>> > any other country, ergo it is Number One!

Carl Sundquist wrote:
>> Thanks for reinforcing my point. We're the only 'major' cycling country with
>> a national criterium championship and still can't fill out the field
>> qualitatively.

b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> That was my point - we're the only 'major' cycling country
> (AFAIK) whose domestic circuit is so reliant on
> round-the-block races that we have a championship for them.
>
> Ben
> crits are hard and I sucked at them

You could have even more champions in the US if you introduced
championships for various types of crits like round-the-block crits and
parking lot crits etc. Even crit-pro might be a champion that way.

John Forrest Tomlinson

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Jul 18, 2006, 6:44:05 AM7/18/06
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On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:00:11 +0200, Donald Munro
<fat-d...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>You could have even more champions in the US if you introduced
>championships for various types of crits like round-the-block crits and
>parking lot crits etc. Even crit-pro might be a champion that way.

Yeah. And crits with a hill in them. Though some masters fatties
have been known to say "That's not a crit, it's got a hill."

And crits without corners too -- like on race tracks. Though some say
no corners = not a crit. I've been known to whine like that.

So:
"Classic round-the-block"
"Parking lot"
"Hilly"
"Swoopy"

With an age group every two or three years for men and women -- sweet!
That's like hundreds of jerseys!

JT

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Mark Fennell

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Jul 18, 2006, 11:29:13 AM7/18/06
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John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:00:11 +0200, Donald Munro
>>You could have even more champions in the US if you introduced
>>championships for various types of crits like round-the-block crits and
>>parking lot crits etc. Even crit-pro might be a champion that way.
>
> Yeah. And crits with a hill in them. Though some masters fatties
> have been known to say "That's not a crit, it's got a hill."
>
> And crits without corners too -- like on race tracks. Though some say
> no corners = not a crit. I've been known to whine like that.
>
> So:
> "Classic round-the-block"
> "Parking lot"
> "Hilly"
> "Swoopy"
>
> With an age group every two or three years for men and women -- sweet!
> That's like hundreds of jerseys!

And bifurcated into clockwise- and counter-clockwise-lap championships...


RonSonic

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Jul 18, 2006, 9:29:26 AM7/18/06
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On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:44:05 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
<usenet...@jt10000.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:00:11 +0200, Donald Munro
><fat-d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>You could have even more champions in the US if you introduced
>>championships for various types of crits like round-the-block crits and
>>parking lot crits etc. Even crit-pro might be a champion that way.
>
>Yeah. And crits with a hill in them. Though some masters fatties
>have been known to say "That's not a crit, it's got a hill."
>
>And crits without corners too -- like on race tracks. Though some say
>no corners = not a crit. I've been known to whine like that.
>
>So:
>"Classic round-the-block"
>"Parking lot"
>"Hilly"
>"Swoopy"
>
>With an age group every two or three years for men and women -- sweet!
>That's like hundreds of jerseys!

So there's hope for me after all.

Ron

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