If your name is Schleck...
atriage
--
Adama
> ...then today's racing didn't necessarily proceed in an advantageous
> manner.
Looks like "only one TT stage in the Tour" is still one too many for
them ...
Ben Trovato
> ...then today's racing didn't necessarily proceed in an advantageous manner.
> --
During the post-mortem on BritEuroSport, one of the commentators
opined that they were "unlucky in the thought process".
atriage
Somebody needs to lock them in a wind tunnel with a bicycle for six months.
--
atriage
Lol, brilliant euphemism if ever I heard one.
--
Scott
Much of the time loss seemed to have come from Schleck's tentative
descending, whereas Evans was nailing it in the twistier parts of the
descent. You'd have thought he was riding a crit bike, not a TT bike.
atriage
> On Jul 23, 9:48 am, atriage<atri...@satriage.net> wrote:
>> On 23/07/2011 16:40, Adama wrote:
>>
>>> Le 23/07/2011 17:12, atriage a écrit :
>>>> ...then today's racing didn't necessarily proceed in an advantageous
>>>> manner.
>>
>>> Looks like "only one TT stage in the Tour" is still one too many for them ...
>>
>> Somebody needs to lock them in a wind tunnel with a bicycle for six months.
>>
>> --
>
> Much of the time loss seemed to have come from Schleck's tentative
> descending, whereas Evans was nailing it in the twistier parts of the
> descent.
I'll say, I thought he was gonna lose it a couple of times, being an ex-mountain
biker he knows how to drift it round corners.
--
Simply Fred
> Much of the time loss seemed to have come from Schleck's tentative
> descending, whereas Evans was nailing it in the twistier parts of the
> descent. You'd have thought he was riding a crit bike, not a TT bike.
I recall last year he pushed Contador a lot more in the TT and probably
lost most of his time in the windier last section. Perhaps he had Riis
to kick his ass onto a TT bike back then.
thirty-six
It didn't have the curly handlebar but the dropped position is still
there. As long as a rider can get his weight forward he is able to
control it well at speed. There really isn't a lot of difference once
a rider lifts off the saddle and balances the bike into and out of a
corner.
Scott
You do know the steering geometry, and therefore the handling, is
significantly different between a TT bike and regular road bike,
right?
Can you make a TT bike corner well? Sure, if you know what you're
doing. That was the whole frikkin' point of the post, dumbass... that
Evans knew what he was doing and Schleck did not.
Geez, pay attention.
thirty-six
> On Jul 23, 3:37 pm, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 5:48 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 23, 9:48 am, atriage <atri...@satriage.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On 23/07/2011 16:40, Adama wrote:
>
> > > > > Le 23/07/2011 17:12, atriage a écrit :
> > > > >> ...then today's racing didn't necessarily proceed in an advantageous
> > > > >> manner.
>
> > > > > Looks like "only one TT stage in the Tour" is still one too many for them ...
>
> > > > Somebody needs to lock them in a wind tunnel with a bicycle for six months.
>
> > > > --
>
> > > Much of the time loss seemed to have come from Schleck's tentative
> > > descending, whereas Evans was nailing it in the twistier parts of the
> > > descent. You'd have thought he was riding a crit bike, not a TT bike.
>
> > It didn't have the curly handlebar but the dropped position is still
> > there. As long as a rider can get his weight forward he is able to
> > control it well at speed. There really isn't a lot of difference once
> > a rider lifts off the saddle and balances the bike into and out of a
> > corner.
>
> You do know the steering geometry, and therefore the handling, is
> significantly different between a TT bike and regular road bike,
> right?
No! What are these significant differences?
Scott
> On Jul 23, 11:37 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 3:37 pm, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 23, 5:48 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 23, 9:48 am, atriage <atri...@satriage.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On 23/07/2011 16:40, Adama wrote:
>
> > > > > > Le 23/07/2011 17:12, atriage a écrit :
> > > > > >> ...then today's racing didn't necessarily proceed in an advantageous
> > > > > >> manner.
>
> > > > > > Looks like "only one TT stage in the Tour" is still one too many for them ...
>
> > > > > Somebody needs to lock them in a wind tunnel with a bicycle for six months.
>
> > > > > --
>
> > > > Much of the time loss seemed to have come from Schleck's tentative
> > > > descending, whereas Evans was nailing it in the twistier parts of the
> > > > descent. You'd have thought he was riding a crit bike, not a TT bike.
>
> > > It didn't have the curly handlebar but the dropped position is still
> > > there. As long as a rider can get his weight forward he is able to
> > > control it well at speed. There really isn't a lot of difference once
> > > a rider lifts off the saddle and balances the bike into and out of a
> > > corner.
>
> > You do know the steering geometry, and therefore the handling, is
> > significantly different between a TT bike and regular road bike,
> > right?
>
> No! What are these significant differences?
>
A good TT bike is designed to be very stable at speed in a straight or
reasonable straight line, stable enough to keep the front end from
being too affected by strong cross winds. Bikes that are super stable
in a straight line tend not to turn well, not without significant
steering input.
You can start w/ the trail figures for the fork/headtube angle. Then
there's also the typically ever so slightly shorter chainstay, coupled
with the significantly steeper seattube angle, placing the weight of
the rider much further forward. The much lower bars will put the
weight of the rider lower. You may say that once the rider stands on
the pedals the seattube angle doesn't matter, but the position of the
bars changes everything about the position of the rider's CoG compared
to a standard road bike position.
Like I said, you can learn to ride a TT bike down a mtn, but I doubt
anyone who's not a supreme bike handler could do it well the first
time they try as it's not intuitive.
Choppy Warburton
So practicing is somehow beneficial ? What about training ? Does it
help to train ?
atriage
The best way to learn to ride a TT bike downhill is to change your name to
Fabian and go live in Switzerland.
--
Jimmy July
Not to the best of A. Schleck's knowledge.
Scott
thirty-six
So what does this mean, he's a damn good pedaller but can't steer his
way round an oval?
No, I don't think I'd want to ride with them, neither can hold a line
for a second.
thirty-six
Like a touring bike, should be not that far off that used in the
regular stages of the TdF, minimising effort to save energy. It means
the bike follows the road unless the rider wakes up and starts yanking
the steering. With all the twitchiness I've seen this year, it is
obvious that relaxed frame geometry is not as common as it should be
for such a race.
>
> You can start w/ the trail figures for the fork/headtube angle. Then
> there's also the typically ever so slightly shorter chainstay,
The short chainstay is for aerodynamics and selling. More significant
to control is CofG The back wheel does nothing if it's in the air,
it's mostly irrelevant as a touch of the front brake will tighten up a
corner. Of course you need a good front wheel to be able to learn to
descend at such speeds.
> coupled
> with the significantly steeper seattube angle, placing the weight of
> the rider much further forward. The much lower bars will put the
> weight of the rider lower. You may say that once the rider stands on
> the pedals the seattube angle doesn't matter, but the position of the
> bars changes everything about the position of the rider's CoG compared
> to a standard road bike position.
But it's essentially the same position a rider gets into to negotiate
the twisty bits on a road/touring bike. Right on the nose or just
above the nose of the saddle. About 100mm forward of the neutral
position.
>
> Like I said, you can learn to ride a TT bike down a mtn, but I doubt
> anyone who's not a supreme bike handler could do it well the first
> time they try as it's not intuitive.
I know.
Scott
You apparently know nothing about the current rage for positioning for
TT bikes, and little about how people descend quickly on standard road
bikes.
Firstly, who the hell slides forward onto the nose of the saddle to
descend? All you'd end up doing is messing w/ your CoG and making it
impossible to properly weight the outside pedal.
Secondly, damn near everyone who's ever spent a minute in a windtunnel
(all the top pros have, BTW) or who's had a professional bike fit (all
the pros, period) have the saddle on their TT bike slammed as far
forward as the rules will allow, with the appropriate adjustment to
saddle height to keep the relative bend in the leg at TDC correct.
Lastly, throw in the difference in front end geometry (going from
neutral trail to high trail) and add a deep dish front wheel to boot,
and the steering techniques for a standard road bike vs TT bike could
hardly be more different.
I'm guessing you've not done a TT since they invented aero bars and
all you did to ride a TT was to bolt on the bars and away you go.
Fred Flintstein
> You apparently know nothing about the current rage for positioning for
> TT bikes, and little about how people descend quickly on standard road
> bikes.
Dude, you are correct.
Why are you getting into it with Trevor?
F
RicodJour
They're racing. They're not supposed to be relaxed.
I was also under the impression that they were moving at fairly high
speeds in sometimes very tight formations, with a fair bit of Brownian
motion going on. If you don't avoid the dangers, you don't make it to
the end - no matter how "relaxed and efficient" the bike is.
That "obvious" observation of yours about twitchiness should have
reflected the nervousness in the peloton. It was rider anxiety, not
tube angles that made the difference between last year and this year.
I realize you're trolling in your own way. I just wish it was a
better way.
R
thirty-six
Moving forward prevents longitudinal weight shift when transferring
weight to the outer pedal. Standing on the pedal has to be assumed is
going to happen to negotiate a tighter turn so getting the weight
almost in place leads to a more stable bike while braking hard. I
have the experience, and sitting in the saddle until it's too late
doesn't work unless you enjoy road rash.
>
> Secondly, damn near everyone who's ever spent a minute in a windtunnel
> (all the top pros have, BTW) or who's had a professional bike fit (all
> the pros, period) have the saddle on their TT bike slammed as far
> forward as the rules will allow, with the appropriate adjustment to
> saddle height to keep the relative bend in the leg at TDC correct.
Low back and breathing space, so what?
>
> Lastly, throw in the difference in front end geometry (going from
> neutral trail to high trail) and add a deep dish front wheel to boot,
> and the steering techniques for a standard road bike vs TT bike could
> hardly be more different.
Are you claiming there is something wrong with the wheels?
>
> I'm guessing you've not done a TT since they invented aero bars and
> all you did to ride a TT was to bolt on the bars and away you go.
I was adopting the position without additional bars and in hilly time
trials before clip-on bars were available. Forward weight stabilises
the machine.
Scott
Newsflash: TT bikes these days are, for all intents and purposes,
completely different than what you were riding back in the day.
thirty-six
Yeah they use equal size wheels today, just like any other road or
touring bike. The slammed position is not new, it was generally found
using a sloping stem and deep drop bars but the small front wheel with
a cow horn handlebar was also used. Stop being silly, the rider still
sits between the wheels with the steered wheel at the front but with a
additional tiller steering bar. So it takes a bit of practice to
develop the skill of steering by tiller. Get over it, what do want a
computer to follow the white line?
Simply Fred
<snip>
thirty-six wrote:
<snip>
thirty-six wrote:
<snip>
Scott wrote:
> Newsflash: TT bikes these days are, for all intents and purposes,
> completely different than what you were riding back in the day.
Presumably the zoning regulations in Colorado allow the building of
windmills in backyards for tilting practice.