Magura HS22 - V brake
Rainer Steffl
I´ve read some articles about Magura and v-brakes. But i would like to
gain some practical experiences. So who can tell me some advantages and
disadvantages of Magura and v-brakes
Rainer Steffl , Austria
Egil Borgne
Hi
In my opinion v-brakes are better than Maguras.
v-brakes :
+lighter
+no toein neded
+stronger
-muchy feel in strong setup
Magura :
+firmer feel
-more frame stress
-expensive
-mud catcher
Egil Borgne
y94...@student.tdb.uu.se
Alain Yong
>I want to buy new brakes for my Cannondale F700.
>I´ve read some articles about Magura and v-brakes. But i would like to
>gain some practical experiences. So who can tell me some advantages and
>disadvantages of Magura and v-brakes
>
>Rainer Steffl , Austria
Well the advantage is based on your opinion. I would prefer the vbrakes cause
they are like a cable system where a average joe schmoe like could clean em, fix em
etc. The maguras are real great and are in a closed system but if you wanna shorten
the cable, you need special tools and be careful not to screw anything up. I would prefer
the vbrakes for maintenance advantages but i would get the maguras if someone would
fix em for me..hehehe
Geoffrey Aguirre
I would just like to add my "two cents" to Egil Borgne's comments.
The Shimano V-brakes are certainly a great product, yet while they adress
the issue of going in a staight line to the rim, they still do not have
the bonus of being a closed system like the Magura's. This comes in quite
handy in adverse conditions. Also, at the MTB-Worlds in Germany, Magura
had set up a booth where volunteers could go on stage and try to swap
brake pads from left to right while being blindfolded.The record was
around 17 seconds to swap the pads on the front wheel, starting with a
race ready bike and returning it to that condition. While it may not be
necessary to be that quick, it is certainly great not to mess up the
set-up. Wouldn't you enjoy to swap your pads minutes before a race when
the weather conditions change?
In article <310354...@student.tdb.uu.se>, Egil Borgne
<y94...@student.tdb.uu.se> wrote:
> Rainer Steffl wrote:
> >
> > I want to buy new brakes for my Cannondale F700.
> > I´ve read some articles about Magura and v-brakes. But i would like to
> > gain some practical experiences. So who can tell me some advantages and
> > disadvantages of Magura and v-brakes
> >
> > Rainer Steffl , Austria
>
> Hi
> In my opinion v-brakes are better than Maguras.
>
> v-brakes :
> +lighter
> +no toein neded
> +stronger
> -muchy feel in strong setup
>
> Magura :
> +firmer feel
> -more frame stress
> -expensive
> -mud catcher
>
> Egil Borgne
> y94...@student.tdb.uu.se
>
> http://www.student.tdb.uu.se/~y94ebo/
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Geoffrey Aguirre 'Go! Go! Go! |
| Dept. of Neuroscience Down! Down! Down! |
| School of Medicine Mine! Mine! Mine!' |
| Univ. of Pennsylvania - Daffy Duck |
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+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Les Dittert
> Rainer Steffl wrote:
> >
> > I want to buy new brakes for my Cannondale F700.
> > I´ve read some articles about Magura and v-brakes. But i would like to
> > gain some practical experiences. So who can tell me some advantages and
> > disadvantages of Magura and v-brakes
> >
> > Rainer Steffl , Austria
>
And then I'm riding x-country , 12 miles from my car , and a 1" branch
catches my Magura brake line. Out comes the Mugura blood.
" Direct pressure , Direct pressure , yells the medic !"
At least with cables , this is less likeley to happen... If it pulls out
I can fix it.
Les Dittert , RFX Inc. Hollywood CA.
l...@rfx.rfx.com
http://lesmac.rfx.com
"WWW homepages : bumper stickers of the 90's ..."
THE UNDERGROUND
wanna shorten
>the cable, you need special tools and be careful not to screw anything
up. I would prefer
>the vbrakes for maintenance advantages but i would get the maguras if
someone would
>fix em for me..hehehe
>
Do you not own a razor knife?? To shorten cable brake housing you need a
fifty dollar shimano cutter (to do it proper) Once you look at the
manual, Magura's are a cinch. Have you ever owned them???
Any Magura questions??? Thats what we are here for.
8 0 0 - 8 7 5 - B I K E
David Wootten @ The Underground. 1996 North American Magura Factory Service Team.
Voice; 800-875-BIKE E-Mail; unde...@buffnet.net
This weeks Specials; 1995 Magura Brakeset Front & Rear complete!! Everything you need for a complete Mtn Bike. $ 185.00 This is the cheapest price in North America!
THE UNDERGROUND
>On to the frame stress.
>Maguras has a longer moment arm than V-brakes and therefor increases
>the torque tension on the frame.In adision V-brakes increases the force
>outwards on the frame.
>The shear stress gets higer in the torque case than in the bending case
>in most frames at least as I can see.(Depends on frame type and
>geometry.)
>
Egil,
Have you ever worn out a frame due to brake stress, ever heard of it?? me
neither.
If this were true then Magura would put less stress in the frame (giving
that the V-brakes were the same stregth). Due to its two point mounting it
doesn't just put pressure on the canti posts but also on the fork or
stays.
Egil Borgne
>
> Egil Borgne (y94...@student.tdb.uu.se) wrote:
> :
> : In my opinion v-brakes are better than Maguras.
> :
> : v-brakes :
> : +stronger
> :
> : Magura :
> : +firmer feel
> : -more frame stress
> :
> I'd like your justification on the above points. If the V-brakes are in
> fact stronger, how can they be less stressful on the frame ? Wouldn't frame
> stress just be controlled by how strong the brakes are ? Also, V-brakes
> sit closer to the rim - odds are they aren't going to be great in mud either,
> so they are probably even with Magura's. As far as price - New HS-22
> Magura's are $185 at The Underground, while if you go with straight
> Shi*mano, your looking at $90 for XT brake levers, and $45 per end for V-
> brakes. Total is $180. I know you can go with other levers, but your
> LBS isn't going to tell you that... My point is V-brakes aren't gods
> gift to braking, they have good points and bad. As far as whether or
> not they are better than V-brakes, I don't know. I've ridden good
> canti's, and Magura's. I prefer magura's to canti's, but I haven't ridden
> on trails with V-brakes. Until then, I can't say. Whatever you choose,
> I'm sure you'll be pleased.
>
>
> --
> "Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines"
> -Enzo Ferrari-
>
> Jonathan M. Tallon jmta...@mtu.edu M.T.U.
Well first the prise difference I live in Sweden and here
Maguras go for ~3000SEK i.e $400
V-brakes go for 1900SEK i.e $270
Quite a difference or what!
(We have huge taxes on 25% + ~16% for non swedish made products.)
On to the frame stress.
Maguras has a longer moment arm than V-brakes and therefor increases
the torque tension on the frame.In adision V-brakes increases the force
outwards on the frame.
The shear stress gets higer in the torque case than in the bending case
in most frames at least as I can see.(Depends on frame type and
geometry.)
Egil Borgne
y94...@student.tdb.uu.se
RangersX4x
and tried out V-brakes at a shop. My opinion? The Maguras win. Why? Let's
see...
Maguras:
Maintenance free (after proper setup)
Closed system (no more rusty/stretched/tightened cables)
More powerful
Less frame stress (distributed over the frame because of canti stud and
elbow)
Easily changed pads (no need for allen wrenches)
Strong, yet spongy feel
V-brakes:
The maintenance! (less time on trails)
Cable system (again, maintenance)
Nearly as powerful (not good enough...)
More frame stress (because they're being held by the canti stud only)
Hard to change pads (less time on trails)
Lighter (I can lose weight on other parts of the bike)
Made by Shimano (ACK! a monopolistic company! just like micro$oft!)
--
"God made rivers, God made lakes. When God made you, He made a mistake."
Nick Shapter
says:
>
>Time for my 2 cents. I've been using Maguras for a year and a half now,
>and tried out V-brakes at a shop. My opinion? The Maguras win. Why? Let's
>see...
>
I have to agree that if you're looking for absolute braking power without
a big hassle, get Maguras. The benefits of V brakes should become more
evident as they become more common though.
Also I'd like to add a few more reasons:
1) Wire brakes get gunked up with mud and ice and can feel sticky, but
always have a consitent feel.
2) Depending on the pad (esp. w/ v brake pads), wire brakes tend to squeel
and shriek somewhat. Unless you grind and/or use rim compound, Maguras are
very quiet (except for the cool "thunk" when you lock up).
3) For a given amount of braking power (Force of pads on rim), Maguras
actually flex your frame or fork LESS than wire brakes. This is 'cause
the force is divided between the elbows and the brake bosses, rather than
all of the force at one place as with cantis.
4) Regular Magura levers are big, so your fingers don't get tired. XT
V brake levers are these tiny 2-finger jobs that are just aren't suited
for OT or DH. If you really dig those tiny levers, though, I think
Kooka makes a set of replacement levers that cost nearlyt as much as
the original setup costs.
Ted S. trs...@psuvm.psu.edu
Anthony Kraybill
: Have you ever worn out a frame due to brake stress, ever heard of it?? me
: neither.
Nope, sure haven't...
: If this were true then Magura would put less stress in the frame (giving
: that the V-brakes were the same stregth). Due to its two point mounting it
: doesn't just put pressure on the canti posts but also on the fork or
: stays.
Okay, I've always wondered about this... I just glanced at the V-brakes,
but it looks like there's 1 cable connecting the two brake arms, similar
to the Marinovative brakes. Under braking, there is a force directed
into the rim (of course) and a force directed outward, pushing the brakes
apart. With V-brakes, won't the outward force be supported by both the
canti studs and the cross cable (and housing I guess)? Whereas with
Maguras, this outward force must be supported by the frame entirely
(assuming no brace), right? It's been a while since I took physics,
though, so I could be completely off-base... Any engineering-types want
to take a shot at this? Maybe I should redirect this to r.b.tech...
Oh yeah, my experience with Maguras has been great so far. I've broken a
line or two, but it's no different than breaking a brake cable. Bleeding
them can be messy, but it still takes longer to set up a typical pair of
canti brakes and keep them adjusted. I give 'em a hearty thumbs up.
Anthony A. Kraybill
aakra...@ucdavis.edu
Jonathan M. Tallon
:
: Okay, I've always wondered about this... I just glanced at the V-brakes,
: to the Marinovative brakes. Under braking, there is a force directed
: into the rim (of course) and a force directed outward, pushing the brakes
: apart. With V-brakes, won't the outward force be supported by both the
: canti studs and the cross cable (and housing I guess)? Whereas with
: Maguras, this outward force must be supported by the frame entirely
: (assuming no brace), right? It's been a while since I took physics,
: though, so I could be completely off-base... Any engineering-types want
: to take a shot at this? Maybe I should redirect this to r.b.tech...
I think you are wrong. The cable provides an internal force, which is
completely insignificant in the overall brake system as far as supports
are concerned. All the force still winds up being supported by those
canti studs... I knew 'Statics' was good for something...
-jon-
Mike Schmitz
>I want to buy new brakes for my Cannondale F700.
>I´ve read some articles about Magura and v-brakes. But i would like to
>gain some practical experiences. So who can tell me some advantages and
>disadvantages of Magura and v-brakes
>Rainer Steffl , Austria
This past Christmas i received a Magura HS22 for the back of my bike
and it's the best thing i've ever put on my bike. I'm a trials rider
so now i get the ultimate braking power. I highly recommend them.
Personnally I think they're a better deal than the yellow
Racelines...because they work exactly the same. I've looked around
and tried both kinds and talked to many people, the HS22's are exactly
the same and cheaper. If you do get one or a set i also reccomend you
get Magura Brake Boosters, because these brakes are so strong it will
flex your forks or seat stays alot. The disadvantages are that new
brake pads are expensive...i believe 35 bucks for a set !! but it's
worth it....and the other is that....if you have one on the front, you
have to be very careful, these brakes are very touchy, too hard and
FWOOSH !! over the handle bars you go !! and that can't be good for
you. But overall i reccomend them...
Good Luck and I hope you're happy with whatever you get !!
Matt
James Carroll
brake booster, I found this made a huge difference. I used to run
Magura RL's, but have since switched to the V-brakes. They were OK
without the brace, but perform extremely well with it.
I was also concerned about frame stress when I saw how much the
V-brakes flexed my fork and seat stays, but the braces have fixed this.
--
James Carroll | Live to ride,
jjc...@electro.bpainc.com | Ride to live.
Anthony Kraybill
: I think you are wrong. The cable provides an internal force, which is
: completely insignificant in the overall brake system as far as supports
: are concerned. All the force still winds up being supported by those
: canti studs... I knew 'Statics' was good for something...
Well, there you go. I stand corrected. Doesn't make much intuitive
sense, but that's why I'm not an engineer. :)
--
Anthony A. Kraybill
aakra...@ucdavis.edu
Alain Yong
>This past Christmas i received a Magura HS22 for the back of my bike
>and it's the best thing i've ever put on my bike. I'm a trials rider
>so now i get the ultimate braking power. I highly recommend them.
>Personnally I think they're a better deal than the yellow
>Racelines...because they work exactly the same. I've looked around
>and tried both kinds and talked to many people, the HS22's are exactly
>the same and cheaper. If you do get one or a set i also reccomend you
>get Magura Brake Boosters, because these brakes are so strong it will
>flex your forks or seat stays alot. The disadvantages are that new
>brake pads are expensive...i believe 35 bucks for a set !! but it's
>worth it....and the other is that....if you have one on the front, you
>have to be very careful, these brakes are very touchy, too hard and
>FWOOSH !! over the handle bars you go !! and that can't be good for
>you. But overall i reccomend them...
>Good Luck and I hope you're happy with whatever you get !!
>
>Matt
>
>
Actually i think the only dif between the HS-22 and RAceline HS-22 is the
aluminum bolt kit and the colour. The grey ones (HS-22) don't have aluminum
bolts hence heavier. The Raceline ones do.. i think.. if i'm wrong, The UNderground
will start blasting me again..hehehe......... ;)
Mr A.A. Smith
I am not so sure that Anthony has not got a point, though in reverse, the
straddle wire _increasing_ the force onto the cantilever mounting studs. I
am trying to remember back to physics classes taken over ten years ago now
but having done a little sketch diagram it appears that tension in the
cable connecting the top of the cantis will act as a lever with the fulcrum
at the brake pad/rim thus exerting _more_ force onto the mounts and away from
the wheel rim. This extra leverage will not occur with the hydraulic system.
I can't draw it here, you will have to trust me or work it out yourself.
(Sorry Johnathon, but statistics is irrelevant to this problem unless you are
looking at the relative effects of forces in brakes across a sample of the
entire population of brakes).
However, at the end of the day, someone else asked who ever say frame
failure as a result of braking? So ultimately who cares? Get what you like,
if they work properly you will stop, if they don't you can sue.
Alaster.
Mike Schmitz
>: : canti studs... I knew 'Statics' was good for something...
>(Sorry Johnathon, but statistics is irrelevant to this problem unless you are
>looking at the relative effects of forces in brakes across a sample of the
>entire population of brakes).
Why am i doing this? Why oh Why????????????
I *HATE* IT WHEN PEOPLE NIT PICK!
sigh, having said that, Johnathon said STATICS not Statistics!
*grin*
Mike
Jonathan M. Tallon
: Anthony Kraybill (ez04...@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
: : Jonathan M. Tallon (jmta...@mtu.edu) wrote:
: : : I think you are wrong. The cable provides an internal force, which is
: : : completely insignificant in the overall brake system as far as supports
: : : are concerned. All the force still winds up being supported by those
:
:
: I am not so sure that Anthony has not got a point, though in reverse, the
: straddle wire _increasing_ the force onto the cantilever mounting studs. I
: am trying to remember back to physics classes taken over ten years ago now
: but having done a little sketch diagram it appears that tension in the
: cable connecting the top of the cantis will act as a lever with the fulcrum
: at the brake pad/rim thus exerting _more_ force onto the mounts and away from
: the wheel rim. This extra leverage will not occur with the hydraulic system.
: I can't draw it here, you will have to trust me or work it out yourself.
: (Sorry Johnathon, but statistics is irrelevant to this problem unless you are
: looking at the relative effects of forces in brakes across a sample of the
: entire population of brakes).
You are thinking of statistics, not statics. Statics is the study of
objects that aren't moving. Things like brakes slammed against your rims.
Longer canti' arms like the V-brakes will increase pressure againt the rim
given the same amount of pull on the brake cable. But for a given amount
of braking power at the rim (i.e. - enough to skid the tire), Magura's are
less stressful on the frame, due to having 2 supports againt the frame.
BUT, people tend to over-brake with magura's (and probably V-brakes),
flexing the frame unnecessarily... Point is - both types of brakes can
exert much more than the necessary amount of braking force. As for the
specifics of the above statics problem, I'm not sure anymore. You could
be right. I could. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong :) Oh
well, I ramble needlessly again... Happy trails.
: However, at the end of the day, someone else asked who ever say frame
: failure as a result of braking? So ultimately who cares? Get what you like,
: if they work properly you will stop, if they don't you can sue.
Agreed.