Waiting in traffic lines.
Marz
really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
laters,
Marz
Doki
"Marz" <marzje...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb3e1daa-75a2-4fe4...@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
It depends. Sometimes I will find my way through gridlocked traffic slowly
(ie on multilane approaches to roundabouts), or overtake on the right (being
in the UK where people drive on the left), depending on the traffic
conditions. Sometimes I'll wait with the traffic if it's a junction where
people tend to force their way into gaps.
Simon Mason
"Marz" <marzje...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb3e1daa-75a2-4fe4...@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
9/10 I will ride to the head of the queue/line or past slow moving vehicles.
Sometimes if there is a bus or lorry in front and there is a chance the
lights will change before I can get past then it's not worth the risk.
Keeping in the queue just negates the advantage of being on a bike.
--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/
Ian Smith
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Marz <marzje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For me, one of the reasons I did ride to work is to avoid getting
> stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do other folks wait in
> line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It depends upon the junction,
traffic conditions, situation and my mood.
regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
DougC
If the cars are all waiting on a straight section of road, I pass them.
Gridlock is their problem, not mine.
If I am going to make a right turn, I will still ride past, but be VERY
cautious at the turn. In the US (that is, driving on the right side of
the road) most drivers don't bother to look to their right before
turning--they are only looking straight or left. Getting turned on is a
real possibility, and the few times I've come closest to being run over,
this was the scenario (a car turning right without looking right first,
or using their turn signal).
If I am gong to make a left turn, I will pull up in the right side of
the left-turn lane, right behind the first car, to wait. The second car
is paying attention to what's in front of them, and (I think) is more
likely to notice me.
-----
Splitting lanes makes the most sense when making a left-hand turn at a
multi-lane stoplight, yet 1) it's illegal in the state I live in, and 2)
most drivers seem to be pretty surprised at a bicycle riding through
several lanes of traffic (even if the traffic isn't actually /moving/ at
the moment).
~
Martin Dann
Really depends upon the circumstances. If I approach a red light, and
just before I get there, a motorists cuts in front and blocks me, then I
will return the favour.
If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting before I
get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red lights on hills).
If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably won't bother passing that.
If there is a long queue, and I know I won't get through the next green
phase if I wait, then I filter.
Most congestion around here is caused by the amount of single occupier
cars, so I should pass as I am taking up less room (and subsidising
their motoring costs).
Marz
When I do ride through stationary traffic, up the middle of two lanes,
I have to be 100 times more cautious here in Houston as I used to be
in London. I guess London drivers are used to seeing cyclists and
motorcyclists traveling through gridlock. Whereas folks here seem to
be constantly amazed just to see a cyclist on the road. I don't even
know if what I'm doing illegal here in Texas.
And as for right turning traffic, you're correct drivers never look
right before going right, and I usually make sure I leave enough room
for folks to continue to turn right. And when the lights change, make
sure that the next guy turning right is aware that I'm going straight
on.
I had thought the differences in cycling habits I see here in Houston
compared to the UK was a left-pond right-pond sort of thing, but
having visit other US cities it's more of a Houston thang. As there
are so few cycling commuters on the road, drivers have no idea what to
do and never expect to have to look out for a cyclist.
Adam Lea
"Simon Mason" <simon...@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:NpidnRUervPoq5vV...@eclipse.net.uk...
I often wonder what to do in Central London where I can't pass on the left
because it is too dangerous, can't pass on the right because I would be in
the path of oncoming traffic, can't filter between lanes because the gap is
too small, yet I often hear of people managing 12+mph averages in this area.
I wonder how.
Adam
naked_draughtsman
> I had thought the differences in cycling habits I see here in Houston
> compared to the UK was a left-pond right-pond sort of thing, but
> having visit other US cities it's more of a Houston thang. As there
> are so few cycling commuters on the road, drivers have no idea what to
> do and never expect to have to look out for a cyclist.
It is exactly the same in different parts of the UK. I think it depends
on many things, the number of cyclists on the road is one of them.
It also seems to vary with the seasons/weather - more people are out
cycling in the better weather and people are generally happier to be out
in the sun (cyclists and everyone else) so people are a bit more courteous
to each other.
peter
victo...@gmail.com
> And as for right turning traffic, you're correct drivers never look
Why should they look there (beyond looking ahead to the right for
traffic in the crosswalk)?
If one is in the right most lane, it's quite reasonable to expect that
there is nothing coming up behind on the right when one is making a
right turn.
Martin Dann
naked_draughtsman wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:00:34 -0700, Marz wrote:
>> I had thought the differences in cycling habits I see here in Houston
>> compared to the UK was a left-pond right-pond sort of thing, but
>> having visit other US cities it's more of a Houston thang. As there
>> are so few cycling commuters on the road, drivers have no idea what to
>> do and never expect to have to look out for a cyclist.
>
> It is exactly the same in different parts of the UK. I think it depends
> on many things, the number of cyclists on the road is one of them.
One thing I have noticed in the last couple of months, is how my cycling
speed affects how other road users treat me. The faster I go, the more I
seem to be cut up, or receive abuse.
In mid-Feb it was taking me just over an hour to commute to work, and
now I am taking 40-45 minutes (still not fast enough). In Feb, I had
hardly any trouble from motorists.
However this could be due to road positioning, the faster I go, the
further from the kerb I ride.
Martin.
Paul Weaver
> GoogleUser Marz wrote:
> > When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> > really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
> > very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
> > with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
> > work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
> > other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> Really depends upon the circumstances. If I approach a red light, and
> just before I get there, a motorists cuts in front and blocks me, then I
> will return the favour.
My thoughts exactly. On the other hand if I catch up a motorist that
overtook me courteously some time before and has been waiting, I wont
filter past, even when there's an ASL.
If theres only one or two cars I wont filter, not worth it. If it's a
lorry of bus (and theres time) I will pass them if safe to do so, as
they have lousy acceleration. I'll filter past when its a long line of
cars too (or at a junction turning right (uk), across the traffic.
> If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting before I
> get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red lights on hills).
> If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably won't bother passing that.
> If there is a long queue, and I know I won't get through the next green
> phase if I wait, then I filter.
> Most congestion around here is caused by the amount of single occupier
> cars, so I should pass as I am taking up less room (and subsidising
> their motoring costs).
If you wait and act like a car, you're causing the same amount of
congestion as a car, which car drivers wouldn't like. Much better (for
them) for you to filter.
DennisTheBald
You're on the same roads, you've got the same rules, at least
stateside - all y'all 'cross the pond actually have consideration for
bikes written into the laws rather than slapped on at the end like
some kind of afterthought, dontcha.
If the lane is wide enough to share it with a car in the middle of the
block then it must be at the light too, but if I'm taking the lane...
Well, some times even when I'm taking the lane I will move all the way
over to the left edge of that lane to let right turning motorists
squeeze by at the light, but I'm a freaking prince among men whereas
people in spandex are mostly terrible knuckleheads like Kim Jong Il.
(How many commuters do you see wearing spandex, if you gotta buy five
$50 jerseys and hand wash 'em where's the cost savings?)
Plot a course that minimizes being in the situation where you're
waiting for traffic lights, not getting caught up in the motorists'
daily version of critical mass is one of the best parts of being a
Biking (yes, horned head gear). And if you're commuting you're
probably going to the same place every day, you ought to be able to
find better spaces to be in that thems that are completely filled up
with car farts.
Mark T
> do other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
I always filter far enough to guarantee getting through on the green. If
the traffic in front will pass me before the next light I don't bother
filtering forwards of it unless I'm in a hurry. Being, say, three cars
back at the lights means 3 fewer cars given the opportunity to overtake too
close. This is a particularly good idea when it's a large vehicle like a
bus.
On the coldest days I filter to the back of a bus, and warm myself in it's
exhaust. Long as you're close enough your head is above the fumes and it's
all toasty-warm.
Tom Sherman
> [...]
> I often wonder what to do in Central London where I can't pass on the left
> because it is too dangerous, can't pass on the right because I would be in
> the path of oncoming traffic, can't filter between lanes because the gap is
> too small, yet I often hear of people managing 12+mph averages in this area.
> I wonder how.
>
riding in London.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
frkr...@gmail.com
I seldom filter forward, because I seldom need to. My job has usually
(not always) allowed me to commute at non-peak times; and I have
routes to and from work that use mostly streets that aren't super-
busy. By those means, I've avoided most of the problem.
There are two intersections, however, where I occasionally have to
make the decision whether or not to filter forward. Both regularly
back up to the point that cars at the back of the queue won't make it
through the green.
The one I deal with most commonly is one where I (and most other
vehicles) are trying to turn left on the green turn arrow. The lanes
are narrow, and the left turn lane is quite long. I keep my place in
line for that one (i.e. dead-center behind the car in front of me),
even if it means I'll miss the green. I see no way to safely filter
forward.
At the other one, I'm going straight, in the right curb lane of a busy
arterial. Lanes are about 12 feet wide, which I consider wide enough
to share if speeds are reasonably low. On that one, I'll almost
always keep my place in the center of the lane. But if the line is so
long that I'll miss the green light, I _very_ carefully filter
forward. Generally, I'll stop sort of between the first and second
car (if there's room), taking care to make eye contact with the driver
of the second car, with a sort of nod of thanks. The great danger is
right hooks, - for example, from a right turn on red. That's why I
don't want to be next to the first car (or much worse, bus or truck).
I may be technically violating a rule by filtering forward on the curb
side (right side, here in the US). I've sometimes heard that all
passing should be done on the left. But ISTM that's silly. There are
times in wide lanes where the cars are faster than I am for a while,
then they must slow down and I'm faster than the cars. To keep all
passing on the left would require a series of figure 8 moves with
ballet precision.
- Frank Krygowski
james...@gmail.com
Well if all you are doing is moving up ~5 cars to the head of the
queue, when all of you are going to get through the lights at the next
green phase, then there is little time gained by doing this (in some
cases it may be safer).
Of course I jump the lights routinely so of course I almost always go
past the queues of traffic.
The lights are only there to manage the gridlocked cars, so long as I
can see it's safe I'll continue on my way. In Japan they don't even
default to priority for the through route at quiet times, but cycle
regularly day and night irrespective of traffic flow. I'm not going to
stop every 100 yards just because of some brain-dead traffic planning
- it's annoying enough having to slow down and check just in case
something is going across.
James
J. Chisholm
good ASL.
Take primary position behind first vehicle. The driver of the first
vehicle will be looking at the lights to see when they change, and even
if you think he should see you he may not. In addition an increasing
proportion of drivers don't realise that 'indicators' should be used in
advance of a manoeuvre to indicate intentions rather that show "I'm now
turning left", as if it isn't bloddy obvious by that stage. At a
junction I use almost daily I recon only half vehicles that are first in
Q indicate in advance that they're turn left, with the other half either
not indicating at all or only indicating as they move off to make the turn.
Similar applies to R'abouts, don't undertake first vehicle in Q but move
off behind him. In Cambridge a cyclist was killed when an HGV moved off
at a R'about when cyclist in front didn't.
Jim Chisholm
DougC
Because if a pedestrian is stepping off the corner that they are turning
on, what will happen?
~
victo...@gmail.com
> victor....@gmail.com wrote:
...
> Because if a pedestrian is stepping off the corner that they are turning
> on, what will happen?
How does a pedestrian stepping off the corner qualify as coming up
behind on the right, as a cyclist filtering up the right edge does?
Aeek
<Dennis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Well, some times even when I'm taking the lane I will move all the way
>over to the left edge of that lane to let right turning motorists
>squeeze by at the light, but I'm a freaking prince among men whereas
If you mean move out to let the indicating motorist turn curbside,
yes, I like to do that too. One of lifes little pleasures.
>people in spandex are mostly terrible knuckleheads like Kim Jong Il.
Almost all the braindead, unaware, road rule ignorant cyclists I see
are wearing "regular" clothes.
>(How many commuters do you see wearing spandex, if you gotta buy five
>$50 jerseys and hand wash 'em where's the cost savings?)
About 1/3, more during winter. Less if I go past a University.
Only need 2 sets, machine wash and spin, the jerseys can even go in
the dryer.
dgk
<marzje...@gmail.com> wrote:
Depends on conditions of course, but I would never wait in line unless
hell froze over.
dgk
I run lights whenver it's safe. They're timed for cars, not for me.
robindoug...@googlemail.com
[I'm new on urc... hello]
Almost all roads in central Edinburgh have advance stoplines, so if I
come to a queue of traffic at one of those junctions I'll filter,
usually on the left, if there is space to do so. If there turns out to
be a white van in the ASL I'll jolly well pull up right in front of
it, which I think is safer than hanging around somewhere to the left
where the driver isn't looking.
If, while filtering, I come to a car that's so far to the left there
isn't enough space to get past, I stop somewhere behind it, ready to
take a place in the lane when the cars start moving (looking backwards
and making eye contact with the driver behind me helps here, I think.)
Chelsea tractors and vans get a much more careful value of "enough
space" here; I never pass lorries unless I'm certain the lights aren't
changing any time soon.
Generally I only filter if I don't expect the cars to start moving
before I get to the front - if they do, I find it always starts slowly
enough for me to get back into the lane.
If I decide not to filter at all I wait in the centre of the lane
behind the last car, and reconsider filtering if I'm not past the
junction in one light cycle.
On most roads I'm uneasy about the idea of passing stopped cars on the
right, unless I'm going to be turning right myself, as I don't fancy
trying to get back in to moving traffic from that side.
Robin Johnson
idomybestw...@hotmail.com
> "Simon Mason" <simonma...@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:NpidnRUervPoq5vV...@eclipse.net.uk...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Marz" <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Maybe with a 29er straight over the top? That would be classy.
squeaker
bail out of) than on one of my bikes....
Rick
...
>
> The one I deal with most commonly is one where I (and most other
> vehicles) are trying to turn left on the green turn arrow. The lanes
> are narrow, and the left turn lane is quite long. I keep my place in
> line for that one (i.e. dead-center behind the car in front of me),
> even if it means I'll miss the green. I see no way to safely filter
> forward.
route, but do have a couple of similar situations. On my ride home,
during rush hour, I have to turn left from a very busy 2 lane road,
speed of 50 mph and long lines of cars to turn left, onto a quieter
wide laned road. There I totally skip the left turn and go straight
through, inserting myself between the straight through and right turn
lanes for the direction I am turning on to, as the speeds are just too
high for me to cross the 2 lanes easily - just getting out into a
break in the traffic can take a couple of minutes due to the heavy
high speed traffic. I have made the left turn easily when riding
earlier in the day, though.
Another left turn I make is on a road with a single lane going to a
dedicated left turn lane and right turn/straight lane. There I always
filter forward to the right side of the left turn, as the two lanes
are very wide and I don't have to worry about either lane of traffic
from there.
>
> At the other one, I'm going straight, in the right curb lane of a busy
> arterial. Lanes are about 12 feet wide, which I consider wide enough
> to share if speeds are reasonably low. On that one, I'll almost
> always keep my place in the center of the lane. But if the line is so
> long that I'll miss the green light, I _very_ carefully filter
> forward. Generally, I'll stop sort of between the first and second
> car (if there's room), taking care to make eye contact with the driver
> of the second car, with a sort of nod of thanks. The great danger is
> right hooks, - for example, from a right turn on red. That's why I
> don't want to be next to the first car (or much worse, bus or truck).
I have a similar intersection, but 95% of the cars turn right in my
case, and I will either hold in the center if there is a long line, or
filter up on the left if there are only a few cars in front and all
are obviously turning right, always easy to tell for the first couple
anyway, since they are edging over to the right anyway. That helps
avoid the right hooks there, which is practically every car anyway.
Rick
Marz
I did look into my route options to work and I have 3.
One to follow the feeder road along I10 and then turn down a short
street to the office, a very fast route as there's fewer lights and
the speeding traffic creates a nice tail wind/draft, but it's not the
safest route.
Option 2 it the straightest route along a 4 lane road through the
neighbourhoods, it's a nice wide road, speed limits of 30, 35 and 40 a
lot of traffic and a lot of lights and hence the need to queue jump,
but it is quick.
And option 3 a nice quiet ride through the smaller roads in the
neighbourhood, it zigzags a bit, adds about 2 miles to a 9 mile route
and not so much traffic, BUT I can't ride it. Bunker Hill have banned
cyclists from the road and I'm left to share the sidewalk/pavement/
foot path with joggers, dog walkers and of course have to check almost
every road and drive crossing before moving on, not fun at all.
Laters,
Marz
Marz
> Simon Mason wrote:
>
> > "Marz" <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Never seen an ASL in Houston and I doubt I ever will, but I agree with
not getting ahead of the first car. He's just watching for the light
to go green and has assumed that nothing is going to pull in front of
him after he's stopped for the red light.
Adam Lea
"Tom Sherman" <sunset...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fu6fhl$50u$2...@registered.motzarella.org...
> Adam Lea wrote:
>> [...]
>> I often wonder what to do in Central London where I can't pass on the
>> left because it is too dangerous, can't pass on the right because I would
>> be in the path of oncoming traffic, can't filter between lanes because
>> the gap is too small, yet I often hear of people managing 12+mph averages
>> in this area. I wonder how.
>>
> See <http://digave.com/videos/london06-digave_com.mpg> for advice on
> riding in London.
>
Ah so that's the answer - use the "full width" of the road.
Rob Morley
asr...@yahoo.co.uk says...
elbows. :-)
Seriously though, what a bunch of twats.
Matt O'Toole
> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a very
> rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line with
> traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to work is
> to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do other
> folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
I filter forward but only if there's plenty of room, and no danger of
being right-hooked. Actually this winds up being most of the time.
Keep in mind there will be drivers wanting to turn right who will inch
rightward well in advance of the intersection, without signaling or
checking their blind spot for bikes passing them on the right. If you
come up too fast from behind they won't see you even if they do look. So
be careful, don't go too fast, watch for signs of drivers encroaching on
your path, and be prepared to hit your brakes.
To take this one step further, I believe all right-hook situations are
entirely avoidable by keeping the above in mind.
Matt O.
Colin McKenzie
> My advice is NEVER go in front of the first vehicle unless there is a
> good ASL.
This is unduly restrictive, though I see your point. In front of the
first vehicle is much safer than beside it, so you MUST be sure you
can get into the driver's eyeline before he can move. If it's a lorry,
I'll look up at the driver and make eye contact. I also won't go in
front if that means I can't see the lights - I improve my safety a bit
more by reacting faster than the driver behind me when the lights change.
> Similar applies to R'abouts, don't undertake first vehicle in Q but move
> off behind him. In Cambridge a cyclist was killed when an HGV moved off
> at a R'about when cyclist in front didn't.
Roundabouts (and unsignalled junctions) are different. You never know
when the first vehicle will move off, so don't try to pass it unless
there's gridlock.
Colin McKenzie
--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.
Adam Lea
"Rob Morley" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2271ad4b1...@news.individual.net...
> No, just any bit you can squeeze through by tucking in your knees and
> elbows. :-)
I have been toying with the idea of getting one of those cameras that
attaches to the bike so I can videotape my rides. I could then post the odd
one on here and ask for some advice..
Roger Merriman
not sure i really see the problem, as such very few cars etc move off
from the lights with any great speed, i certinaly don't have much
problems leaving the traffic behind at least across the junction.
roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Zoot Katz
wrote:
Except these aren't binary groups. You'd have to do in on Youtube or
something and link it here.
--
zk
Martin Dann
I think my cycling improved dramatically in the weeks after I got mine,
and started reviewing my cycling. Watching your cycling in your own home
allows me to think about what happened, without having to watch the road
whilst cycling.
Now if I am cut up, I think "I got that on camera, I will have a look
when I get home", rather than trying to work out what happened then and
there.
Adam Lea
"Zoot Katz" <zoot...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:fhff04dfl4p87inma...@4ax.com...
Yes that is what I meant.
Martin Dann
>> Except these aren't binary groups. You'd have to do in on Youtube or
>> something and link it here.
>> --
>
> Yes that is what I meant.
Got this one on the way home from work this evening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42KbrxAFnY8
Zoot Katz
That sounds like a good learning tool.
I've carried a voice actuated recorder a few times just for laughs.
Most of it had to be beeped out and the singing parts were worse.
--
zk
Tom Sherman
Watching said video leaves me torn between admiration for the cyclists'
skill and thinking they would be earning their just desserts if run over
by a lorry/truck or bus.
By the way, are those motorized rickshaws in the video?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
Tom Sherman
a fraction of second before the light turns green.
In the 'hood, people pull up in the right turn only lane, then go
straight on red if there is no motorized cross traffic. The "bicycle"
and parking lanes are used as a passing lane.
Tom Sherman
them. The situation is bad enough that in some places (such as college
campuses), right turns are prohibited at certain intersections (except
for buses and emergency vehicles).
Being "right-hooked" is also a reason why riding at speed on the
sidewalk and crossing intersections is a very bad idea, and why "bicycle
lanes" on the sidewalk can be death traps.
Tom Keats
Colin McKenzie <ne...@proof-read.co.uk> writes:
> J. Chisholm wrote:
>> My advice is NEVER go in front of the first vehicle unless there is a
>> good ASL.
>
> This is unduly restrictive, though I see your point. In front of the
> first vehicle is much safer than beside it, so you MUST be sure you
> can get into the driver's eyeline before he can move. If it's a lorry,
> I'll look up at the driver and make eye contact. I also won't go in
> front if that means I can't see the lights - I improve my safety a bit
> more by reacting faster than the driver behind me when the lights change.
Here's a treatment of this very topic, from a North American POV:
http://bicyclesafe.com
(Scroll down to "Red Light of Death)
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
frkr...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Doug Cimper wrote:
> > victor....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Apr 16, 2:00 pm, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> And as for right turning traffic, you're correct drivers never look
> >>> right before going right...
>
> >> Why should they look there (beyond looking ahead to the right for
> >> traffic in the crosswalk)?
>
> >> If one is in the right most lane, it's quite reasonable to expect that
> >> there is nothing coming up behind on the right when one is making a
> >> right turn.
>
> > Because if a pedestrian is stepping off the corner that they are turning
> > on, what will happen?
> > ~
>
> Quite of few pedestrians are hit this way by drivers not looking for
> them. The situation is bad enough that in some places (such as college
> campuses), right turns are prohibited at certain intersections (except
> for buses and emergency vehicles).
>
> Being "right-hooked" is also a reason why riding at speed on the
> sidewalk and crossing intersections is a very bad idea, and why "bicycle
> lanes" on the sidewalk can be death traps.
Ditto for bicycle lanes on the street. Two of last year's cyclist
fatalities in Portland were standing in bike lanes at red lights.
Large vehicles at their left crushed them doing right turns on red.
When you're at the same speed as the motor vehicles, you should almost
always be right in line with the motor vehicles. And "same speed"
includes zero speed.
- Frank Krygowski
Marz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not always getting ahead of the lead car is something I've done to
moderate my cycling here in Texas. Back in the UK, I'd almost always
get to the head of the queue and be gone and away once the light
changed. Here, because drivers are allowed to turn right on red,
they'll very often stop at the light across the whole lane waiting,
not for the light to change, but for a gap in on coming traffic.And so
their attention is never on what may be filtering on their right,
bikes on the road or peds on the pavement/sidewalk. Plus the last
person you want to piss off is a Texan driver, that gun rack in the
back of that pick up is there for a reason and I've already had one
gun pointed at me. One of the funnier and witty bumper stickers says,
" Keep honking buddy, I'm reloadin". http://www.lakecitygraphics.com/images/lakecitypics/Honking1.jpg
:)
laters,
Adam Lea
"Tom Sherman" <sunset...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
They can't be that skilful, one of them fell off in the car park at the
beginning :-)
Matt O'Toole
> One thing I have noticed in the last couple of months, is how my cycling
> speed affects how other road users treat me. The faster I go, the more I
> seem to be cut up, or receive abuse.
> In mid-Feb it was taking me just over an hour to commute to work, and now
> I am taking 40-45 minutes (still not fast enough). In Feb, I had hardly
> any trouble from motorists.
>
> However this could be due to road positioning, the faster I go, the
> further from the kerb I ride.
As you go faster, especially if you're making better time in traffic, it
frustrates other drivers so they'll try to compete with you -- as they
will when you're driving a car faster than they are. But it really gets
their goat to be "beaten" by a bicycle.
Also, if you're riding fast, they may assume you're trying to "beat" them,
and will return the gesture in-kind.
Their problem, not yours. Imagine going through life like that.
Just don't engage, or when you feel you've gotten their (negative)
attention, take active steps to disengage -- let them "beat" you, and
go on their miserable way.
Matt O.
Tom Keats
Matt O'Toole <matto...@letterboxes.org> writes:
> Also, if you're riding fast, they may assume you're trying to "beat" them,
> and will return the gesture in-kind.
>
> Their problem, not yours. Imagine going through life like that.
I think that's pretty much how it is. In my observations,
people are competitive and covetous by nature. Maybe
there's some kind of connection between crime and sport
in that regard? Anyway, if someone is seen to have some
/thing/ -- even the point in space where he or she is
standing/walking/riding/driving at the moment -- other
people will want it. Nevertheless there's a certain
advantage in the predictable behaviours of us humanoids
and hominids.
We bicycle riders /do/ develop a sense of what's coming,
when we see the body English of cars ahead of us. Like
those times when y'just know that guy coming in off the
sidestreet is gonna so-oh-obediently stop at the stop line,
and then just go without looking, right when you'd be
in his path. I can often even predict those mind-changers
who signal a right turn, let me position myself behind
them accordingly, and then switch to their left turn
signal and simultaneously commence turning left when
they think I'd be alongside 'em[*]. I think anybody
who rides among car traffic develops this sense. It's
nothing special or "gifted"; it's just too intangible
to properly articulate in language. In short, I guess
I'm just saying bike riders are /not/ stupid. We all
know that we can't afford to be stupid. We're not that
stupid. Neither, as you well know, do we suicidally barge
through red lights and into busy cross-traffic, as we're so
often accused of doing.
I know I'm not saying anything new to you or to any other
bicycle rider. I'm just trying to acknowledge that intangible
understanding by which we survive our fellow traffic.
> Just don't engage, or when you feel you've gotten their (negative)
> attention, take active steps to disengage -- let them "beat" you, and
> go on their miserable way.
That hearkens to my own personal Cycling Prime Directive:
keep the impatient drivers ahead of me, and the indecisive
drivers behind me. By their fruits shall ye know them.
cheers, & I'm rather partial to grapefruit, myself,
Tom
[*] I bet Eric Sande knows exactly of what I speak.
Tom Keats
frkr...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Being "right-hooked" is also a reason why riding at speed on the
>> sidewalk and crossing intersections is a very bad idea, and why "bicycle
>> lanes" on the sidewalk can be death traps.
>
> Ditto for bicycle lanes on the street. Two of last year's cyclist
> fatalities in Portland were standing in bike lanes at red lights.
> Large vehicles at their left crushed them doing right turns on red.
That seems to be one of the most frequent bike fatality
situations -- rider gets stuck between a right-turning
large vehicle on their left, and a curb or abuttment or
whatever on their right.
> When you're at the same speed as the motor vehicles, you should almost
> always be right in line with the motor vehicles. And "same speed"
> includes zero speed.
Then that precludes filtering. Might as well just
drive a fat-assed, greenhouse-gas-farting machine
and get in line & wait with the other lusers.
I've heard it said that drivers don't like passing
a bicyle, only to have the bicycle pass them, and
then they "have" to pass the bicycle again.
I guess drivers hate being haunted by us.
Their sensitivities must certainly be set askew
whenever that happens. We mustn't upset the
sensitivities of drivers.
We must get in line.
Especially at late-night fast-food-restaurant
drive-thru's.
cheers, & VELORUTION (note the all-caps),
Tom
DougC
>
> I've heard it said that drivers don't like passing
> a bicyle, only to have the bicycle pass them, and
> then they "have" to pass the bicycle again.
>
I don't give two shits about motorists annoyed that I pass them.
"Casual freedom" from some traffic laws are one of the advantages
bicycles have.
~
frkr...@gmail.com
> In article <0d94641c-e85f-457f-9746-7fdc7974c...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> frkry...@gmail.com writes:
>
> > When you're at the same speed as the motor vehicles, you should almost
> > always be right in line with the motor vehicles. And "same speed"
> > includes zero speed.
>
> Then that precludes filtering. Might as well just
> drive a fat-assed, greenhouse-gas-farting machine
> and get in line & wait with the other lusers.
I tend to evaluate options by comparing benefits vs. detriments.
Now, as I explained, it's very rare that filtering forward would save
me catching a red light. So what's my benefit to filtering forward?
Getting through the intersection ten seconds earlier? That's not a
significant benefit, and to me, it's not worth the detriment of the
risks involved. I'll keep my place in line, avoid any possibility of
a right hook, and reinforce that I'm operating a legal vehicle. (I
like doing this just to educate motorists.)
For me, there's a lot of joy in bicycling that has nothing at all to
do with the ability to filter forward. So no, I wouldn't say I might
as well be driving a car.
- Frank Krygowski
r15...@aol.com
The second of the two was traveling at a high cycling speed just
before the incident.
> When you're at the same speed as the motor vehicles, you should almost
> always be right in line with the motor vehicles. And "same speed"
> includes zero speed.
In the suburbs filtering won't give you much time advantage at all
over other street traffic. In a congested city at rush hour, not
filtering means you're sitting in a traffic jam. You'll still be
downtown when a cyclist using his common sense filtering ability will
be home already. That's a pretty high price to pay to make a
statement. I guess that's why even the hardcore 'vehicular cyclist'
statement-makers suddenly forget all about that when they're in that
situation. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Tom Keats
frkr...@gmail.com writes:
> On Apr 19, 5:55 am, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
>> In article <0d94641c-e85f-457f-9746-7fdc7974c...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>> frkry...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> > When you're at the same speed as the motor vehicles, you should almost
>> > always be right in line with the motor vehicles. And "same speed"
>> > includes zero speed.
>>
>> Then that precludes filtering. Might as well just
>> drive a fat-assed, greenhouse-gas-farting machine
>> and get in line & wait with the other lusers.
>
> I tend to evaluate options by comparing benefits vs. detriments.
>
> Now, as I explained, it's very rare that filtering forward would save
> me catching a red light. So what's my benefit to filtering forward?
Not having to miss a traffic light cycle because some
bone-headed driver up ahead is yacking on his cell,
arguing with his S.O., obsessively picking those li'l
lint balls off his sweater, or asleep at the wheel,
or the whole lineup except you is turning left while
you want to go straight through, on an un-lane-lined
but wide and busy street.
In the latter situation, the streets of Vancouver often
have cyclists' push-buttons for the traffic lights. I'm
doing a favour for the drivers to my left by getting up
to the button and pushing it. Sometimes the drivers wave
me up to it and ahead of them, just to get the light to
change in their favour.
> Getting through the intersection ten seconds earlier? That's not a
> significant benefit, and to me, it's not worth the detriment of the
> risks involved. I'll keep my place in line, avoid any possibility of
> a right hook, and reinforce that I'm operating a legal vehicle. (I
> like doing this just to educate motorists.)
I find there are times when it is more advantageous to
be at or near the front of the lineup in terms of
maintaining one's visibility to other street users.
I find myself sizing-up (literally) the vehicles in
all directions of an intersection, and considering
(among other factors) where I'm most visible at a
given situation when I decide where I place myself.
Sometimes that means getting ahead of a cube van or
garbage truck or whatever, sometimes that means hanging
back behind 'em, and sometimes that means getting in
line. It's a dynamic, on-the-spot, on-the-fly judgment
call. The point is: there is absolutely no Standard
Operational Procedure (other than local, jurisdictional
traffic [by]laws) as to where a rider should place her/himself
in a lineup at a controlled intersection. Just take the
best of what you've got at the time while, as you say,
considering the risks involved.
> For me, there's a lot of joy in bicycling that has nothing at all to
> do with the ability to filter forward. So no, I wouldn't say I might
> as well be driving a car.
Canoeists & kayakers can adamantly stick to the shipping
lanes too, if they wanna.
The joy in bicycling is that the world becomes
your oyster, not your inescapable rail line.
cheers,
Tom Keats
r15...@aol.com writes:
>> When you're at the same speed as the motor vehicles, you should almost
>> always be right in line with the motor vehicles. And "same speed"
>> includes zero speed.
>
> In the suburbs filtering won't give you much time advantage at all
> over other street traffic. In a congested city at rush hour, not
> filtering means you're sitting in a traffic jam. You'll still be
> downtown when a cyclist using his common sense filtering ability will
> be home already. That's a pretty high price to pay to make a
> statement. I guess that's why even the hardcore 'vehicular cyclist'
> statement-makers suddenly forget all about that when they're in that
> situation. What a bunch of hypocrites.
As I see it, there are two types of VC'ers: those who were
actually trained/taught that way by a qualified VC instructor,
and those who've sorta read the book, and created their own
interpretations of its contents.
The former group does pretty good. The latter group just
cherry-picks the parts that suit 'em, while disregarding
the rest of the story.
At any rate, it seems to me that people are looking for
simole, rote rules-of-thumb, and there really aren't any
that are applicable, except for being heads-up and prepared
for contingencies. As much as it would be nice to be able
to do so, one simply cannot sleepwalk through traffic and
get away with it for very long.
Dennis P. Harris
Marz <marzje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And option 3 a nice quiet ride through the smaller roads in the
> neighbourhood, it zigzags a bit, adds about 2 miles to a 9 mile route
> and not so much traffic, BUT I can't ride it. Bunker Hill have banned
> cyclists from the road and I'm left to share the sidewalk/pavement/
> foot path with joggers, dog walkers and of course have to check almost
> every road and drive crossing before moving on, not fun at all.
>
How can they ban bikes? AFAIK in most states cities can't ban
bikes from streets or roads. I'd just do it and fight the
ticket.
Tom Keats
It also helps to check every road and drive crossing
before moving on. I dunno, I just think it's good
to be aware of what's going on around one, and to
deal with it accordingly. Maybe some folks would like
to be able to get around with eyes wide shut, but
I'm not one of 'em.
Gettin' clobbered is no fun at all.
Stephen Harding
Pretty much agree w/ you.
One of the benefits of bicycling in traffic is you can move
when the four wheeled of the road species can't.
On the other hand, I can't go as fast as they do, so pretending
I'm a car and waiting in line with them may not be a safe thing
to do in its own right if the spacing is tight (narrow
or unlined lanes).
The main thing one must be careful about when moving to the
front of the line is the timing of the light. You don't
want to be passing someone (on the right) as the light changes
and cars start moving.
Best to move up to the front, or as close to it as the light
allows, then sit in front of the car (or off to the side) so
they know you are there.
But sometimes, waiting in line is OK too. Just depends on
the traffic and road situation. It's not really about saving
time. If that were the issue, one would probably not be on a
bicycle (although in heavy traffic, the bike can certainly be
faster than the car some times).
SMH
frkr...@gmail.com
>
>
> As I see it, there are two types of VC'ers: those who were
> actually trained/taught that way by a qualified VC instructor,
> and those who've sorta read the book, and created their own
> interpretations of its contents.
>
> The former group does pretty good. The latter group just
> cherry-picks the parts that suit 'em, while disregarding
> the rest of the story.
Here's a related proposition: there are two types of anti-VC'ers:
those who are totally clueless as to what Vehicular Cycling is about,
and those who have sort of read the book and created their own
interpretation of its contents, cherry picking the parts they want to
argue against.
Some of the latter group argues vociferously that vehicular cycling is
worthless, on the basis that it requires mindless behavior according
to an absolutely rigid set of rules, and forbids consideration of
anything that's not within that set of rules.
As Tom says, if those anti-VC'ers were actually taught by a competent
instructor (and had a mind open enough for learning) they might learn
that their interpretation is far from correct.
- Frank Krygowski
frkr...@gmail.com
> In article <aca55e21-c101-45dc-a9cf-63e86d07a...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> frkry...@gmail.com writes:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 19, 5:55 am, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> >> In article <0d94641c-e85f-457f-9746-7fdc7974c...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >> frkry...@gmail.com writes:
>
> >> > When you're at the same speed as the motor vehicles, you should almost
> >> > always be right in line with the motor vehicles. And "same speed"
> >> > includes zero speed.
>
> >> Then that precludes filtering. Might as well just
> >> drive a fat-assed, greenhouse-gas-farting machine
> >> and get in line & wait with the other lusers.
>
> > I tend to evaluate options by comparing benefits vs. detriments.
>
> > Now, as I explained, it's very rare that filtering forward would save
> > me catching a red light. So what's my benefit to filtering forward?
>
> Not having to miss a traffic light cycle because some
Yes, but as I explained, it's very rare that filtering forward would
save _me_ catching a red light. IOW, that benefit generally doesn't
exist for me.
This is partly because, when I moved to this town over 25 years ago, I
shopped for houses with location in mind, and chose one with a
location allowing reasonably pleasant bike access to places I
frequently go.
If I lived where I'd frequently miss a traffic light cycle because of
motorist gridlock, my balance of benefits vs. detriments would be
different. But for me, filtering forward would save me perhaps ten
seconds on a typical trip. Not worth it.
And I think my situation is more common. That is, I think most
cyclists - even most utility cyclists - wouldn't save all that much
time by filtering forward.
> I find myself sizing-up (literally) the vehicles in
> all directions of an intersection, and considering
> (among other factors) where I'm most visible at a
> given situation when I decide where I place myself.
> Sometimes that means getting ahead of a cube van or
> garbage truck or whatever, sometimes that means hanging
> back behind 'em, and sometimes that means getting in
> line. It's a dynamic, on-the-spot, on-the-fly judgment
> call. The point is: there is absolutely no Standard
> Operational Procedure (other than local, jurisdictional
> traffic [by]laws) as to where a rider should place her/himself
> in a lineup at a controlled intersection. Just take the
> best of what you've got at the time while, as you say,
> considering the risks involved.
Hmm. I guess I can see a slight visibility disadvantage if a cyclist
is behind a large truck, but I don't see a significantly increased
risk of getting hit by other vehicles. OTOH, I sometimes get a
drafting advantage by being there. (Garbage trucks excepted, of
course!)
In any case, I don't think I've ever gone around such a truck with the
intent of making myself more visible. I've never needed to.
>
> > For me, there's a lot of joy in bicycling that has nothing at all to
> > do with the ability to filter forward. So no, I wouldn't say I might
> > as well be driving a car.
>
> Canoeists & kayakers can adamantly stick to the shipping
> lanes too, if they wanna.
>
> The joy in bicycling is that the world becomes
> your oyster, not your inescapable rail line.
My joy in bicycling comes from dozens of different aspects. Filtering
forward, when I do it, is certainly less than 1% of the total.
- Frank Krygowski
Tom Keats
frkr...@gmail.com writes:
>> I find myself sizing-up (literally) the vehicles in
>> all directions of an intersection, and considering
>> (among other factors) where I'm most visible at a
>> given situation when I decide where I place myself.
>> Sometimes that means getting ahead of a cube van or
>> garbage truck or whatever, sometimes that means hanging
>> back behind 'em, and sometimes that means getting in
>> line. It's a dynamic, on-the-spot, on-the-fly judgment
>> call. The point is: there is absolutely no Standard
>> Operational Procedure (other than local, jurisdictional
>> traffic [by]laws) as to where a rider should place her/himself
>> in a lineup at a controlled intersection. Just take the
>> best of what you've got at the time while, as you say,
>> considering the risks involved.
>
> Hmm. I guess I can see a slight visibility disadvantage if a cyclist
> is behind a large truck, but I don't see a significantly increased
> risk of getting hit by other vehicles.
Consider this scenario: you're the last vehicle in your lineup,
and there's a large truck directly in front of you. Meanwhile,
there are left-turning drivers on the opposite side of the street,
eagerly awaiting their chance to go, and chompfing at the bit to
do so. They see the truck that's ahead of you, but do they see
/you/, behind it?
[...]
> My joy in bicycling comes from dozens of different aspects. Filtering
> forward, when I do it, is certainly less than 1% of the total.
I suppose my original post comes across as contentious
and argumentative, which was not my intent. At least,
I wish to not charge with emotion my point that filtering
is sometimes a viable and useful tactic when applied
judiciously and carefully. I also bear in mind that
discussing filtering might induce some people to associate
it with lane-splitting, which is an horse of a somewhat
different colour.
peace & goodwill, and much joy in cycling,
recycled
"Tom Keats" <tkeat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qfvguf...@vcn.bc.ca...
Here's something I find beneficial: I think one of the more dangerous
situations vis a vis automobiles crowding a cyclist is just after an
intersection. In the curb lane that is stopped for an automobile that is
likely going straight there will likely be several waiting to turn right on
red. So by getting ahead of those right turners you not only avoid them
right hooking you but gain a 'breathing space' after the intersection where
there is often a gap in traffic from the right turners behind you.
Just IME.
frkr...@gmail.com
> In article <b06b0a44-99d9-4f2a-9cb6-c5643e586...@u69g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> frkry...@gmail.com writes:
>
> > Hmm. I guess I can see a slight visibility disadvantage if a cyclist
> > is behind a large truck, but I don't see a significantly increased
> > risk of getting hit by other vehicles.
>
> Consider this scenario: you're the last vehicle in your lineup,
> and there's a large truck directly in front of you. Meanwhile,
> there are left-turning drivers on the opposite side of the street,
> eagerly awaiting their chance to go, and chompfing at the bit to
> do so. They see the truck that's ahead of you, but do they see
> /you/, behind it?
I've been aware of what you're describing, both while riding and while
typing my previous response. I just don't think the hazard is
significant.
When I am behind a big vehicle at a traffic light, I frequently enjoy
the drafting help when traffic starts. They accelerate slowly, so I
can often get pulled up to 25 mph (and in my younger days, 30 mph).
In that situation, I'm close enough behind the truck that nobody could
cut that left turn sharply enough to hit me, or even come close.
In the instances where things are different (say, because the truck's
creeeping forward) I simply position myself toward the left side of
the lane. I can then see around the truck, and I can be seen by any
potential left-turners.
- Frank Krygowski
Marz
wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:49:27 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.misc,
>
> > And option 3 a nice quiet ride through the smaller roads in the
> > neighbourhood, it zigzags a bit, adds about 2 miles to a 9 mile route
> > and not so much traffic, BUT I can't ride it. Bunker Hill have banned
> > cyclists from the road and I'm left to share the sidewalk/pavement/
> > foot path with joggers, dog walkers and of course have to check almost
> > every road and drive crossing before moving on, not fun at all.
>
> How can they ban bikes? AFAIK in most states cities can't ban
> bikes from streets or roads. I'd just do it and fight the
> ticket.
Dunno how it came about, but here's the local ordinance...
Sec. 9-131. Bicycle paths--When use required.
Wherever a useable public path for bicycles has been provided adjacent
to a public street, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not
use the public street.
(Ord. No. 317, § 1, 9-8-87)
... I think the local bike clubs having been trying to change it for
some time.
Dane Buson
>
> GoogleUser Marz wrote:
>> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
>> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
>> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
>> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
>> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
>> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red lights on hills).
> If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably won't bother passing that.
> If there is a long queue, and I know I won't get through the next green
> phase if I wait, then I filter.
This is pretty much how I operate. On most stretches of my commute, I'd
rather be in the traffic queue rather than off to the side. As long as
I don't miss the light, I don't care if I'm in the very front. In fact,
if I can get behind someone in a van or DHL or UPS truck, I can get an
excellent draft and zip along with everyone else at traffic speed on
most of the stretches.
--
Dane Buson - sig...@unixbigots.org
If you can read this, you're in range of the demat gun
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is
>>> not really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter
>>> (a very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait
>>> in line with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I
>>> did ride to work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my
>>> question is, do other folks wait in line or do you ride through
>>> stationary traffic?
>> If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting
>> before I get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red
>> lights on hills). If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably
>> won't bother passing that. If there is a long queue, and I know I
>> won't get through the next green phase if I wait, then I filter.
> This is pretty much how I operate. On most stretches of my commute,
> I'd rather be in the traffic queue rather than off to the side. As
> long as I don't miss the light, I don't care if I'm in the very
> front. In fact, if I can get behind someone in a van or DHL or UPS
> truck, I can get an excellent draft and zip along with everyone else
> at traffic speed on most of the stretches.
I think it depends on the road configuration and traffic light phases.
On my commute, several expressways with bicycle lanes cross and have
double left turn lanes with many left turning cars. For these
intersections, I wait in the bicycle lane and when the left turn phase
occurs, ride diagonally between opposing left turn flow, ending the
crossing in the other expressway bike lane.
I find that this does not impede cars (that can accelerate faster than
I) and don't ride in the midst of those cars. These are 4-lane or
wider divided roads, some with median separators. The more lanes the
better but don't ride in the debris pile dead zone in the center of
the intersection, but watch for tools and money that seem to prefer
that location. Stopping there for a pickup is not hazardous.
As for traffic jams, I ride in the bicycle lane and it isn't jammed.
On our main street, I ride down the center stripe to avoid getting
doored or right-turned by slow or stalled traffic.
Jobst Brandt
Zoot Katz
We who have survived for years largely unscathed develop a sense of
flow that fits the infrastructure and social norms of our particular
area. "Vehicular Cycling" and the scofflaw zen gonzo riding styles
meld in that flow.
To expect anything but a rolling-stop without a stern application of
"the eye" is the norm around here. Stoping for a right-turn-on-red
will too often get you tail ended, leaving serious injury claims and
flattened bicycle tires in the wake.
I won't hang my butt out in a left turn lane for more than one light
sequence except in situations requiring hazardous moves to avoid it.
Mostly it's a matter of timing, sight lines and grade. Knowing the
route helps. Sometimes a "square-turn" is going to be quicker.
My line is preferably on the right front quarter panel, signalling
left across the windshield, of the first car in the line-up. Second
choice is in that driver's blind spot. Hitting a green arrow on the
fly across four lanes of slowing and stopped through-traffic to merge
with the turning traffic is beautiful but takes confidence and luck.
People blathering about the optics of how you get there are wasting
their time.
--
zk
Peter Cole
> We who have survived for years largely unscathed develop a sense of
> flow that fits the infrastructure and social norms of our particular
> area. "Vehicular Cycling" and the scofflaw zen gonzo riding styles
> meld in that flow.
That about sums it up for me. Even in the same area, I'll naturally
adopt different styles to match the conditions. In urban areas, when
things are congested, I tend to go gonzo, just to get through/stay ahead
of it. When things spread out/speed up, I tend to be more vehicular.
Just as we self-optimize our cadence and posture, I think we optimize
our behavior (or should) to suit the circumstances.