Light & Motion 3-watt LED headlight
David L. Johnson
Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
something as usable.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The
_`\(,_ | common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance,
(_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my
trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my
business!" --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"
Rich Clark
"David L. Johnson" <david....@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.13....@ptd.net...
>
> Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
> light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
> My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
> something as usable.
I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday. The test I
read indicated that it might well be sufficient for standalone road use, and
it certainly looks convenient to use. Reviews are good; see:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_motion_vega
and
http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop
I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.
RichC
Wayne Pein
> Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
> light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
> My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
> something as usable.
>
I bought one for my wife. We took it for a test ride along with the car.
It's amazingly visible from the perspectives of another road user. She
thought it was adequate for seeing on an unlit street on a downhill
curve. We think its a great light.
Wayne
Ron Hardin
>
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:29:44 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
> <david....@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
> >light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
> >My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
> >something as usable.
>
> fairing & am very pleased.
>
> Indiana Mike
I use four EL500's, which means I like the light, but two is marginal.
One of them I use more as a canary, with a lower capacity battery, to warn
when they all need to be recharged, by its going dim (leaving the other
three working). Rechargeables with LEDs don't give enough warning to cover
the rest of the trip, otherwise, when they start to run out.
Don't run them far into dimness, or you'll reverse-charge the weakest of the
four AA batteries with the other three.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
David L. Johnson
> I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.
Looking forward to it.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |
Joe Faust
http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega LED
Headlight. The cateye HL-EL510 costs about $60 or Ł40, and ouptuts 800
candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175 and 95 lumen on
high.
On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
hours on 4 AA.
rdclark
Joe Faust wrote:
> http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
> Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega LED
> Headlight. The cateye HL-EL510 costs about $60 or £40, and ouptuts 800
> candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175 and 95 lumen on
> high.
>
> On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
> hours on 4 AA.
Have you compared the actual lights, or just their published specs?
RichC
Peter Cole
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:18:12 -0400, "Rich Clark"
> <rdclar...@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>"David L. Johnson" <david....@ptd.net> wrote in message
>>news:pan.2005.10.13....@ptd.net...
>>
>>>Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
>>>light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
>>>My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
>>>something as usable.
>>
>>I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday. The test I
>>read indicated that it might well be sufficient for standalone road use, and
>>it certainly looks convenient to use. Reviews are good; see:
>>
>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_motion_vega
>>
>>and
>>
>>http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop
>>
>>I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.
>>
>>RichC
>
>
> http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
> Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega LED
> candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175 and 95 lumen on
> high.
>
> On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
> hours on 4 AA.
>
Something sounds a little fishy. If a 2.5W (halogen) light runs for 3 hr
on 4 AA's, how can a 1W light run 30 hr on the same batteries?
I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries. I find it to be comparable
to a 2.5W halogen like the Cateye MicroII (I have 3 of those). I paid
about $30 for the Nitehawk, the Cateyes are as low as $8 recently. The
current generation of white LEDs are somewhat more efficient than
halogen, perhaps 2x, but not 10x.
Eric Babula
news:Ap-dnemmrNZ...@comcast.com:
I'll admit I'm a little ignorant with regards to lighting. I have a
VistaLite Nightstick 15 (two lamps: a 5W and 10W). I mostly use the 5W
to shine at oncoming cars, and the 10W down on the road in front of me.
Even with the 10W lamp, I sometimes feel that I'd like even more light
than I have.
Now, this Light & Motion is only a 3W light. Is that really enough for
nighttime commuting on the road? Or, are there other standards I need to
know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
VistaLite?
Just trying to learn a bit more....
--
Eric Babula
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention
of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body.
But rather, it’s to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'Wow! What a ride!!!'
Roger Zoul
May I ask why you got ride of it? I bought one last winter that I never
really have used because I don't like having dark to the sides and also due
to the fact that I can't see my bike on a really dark night. so I'm thinking
of getting a helmet light too, and maybe adding a second light on the
handlebar, just to get a wider beam. I have been testing my Nitehawk
Emitter since the night before last....so far it's still going on high beam
for over 24 hours....sounds fishy to me, perhaps this unit is defective and
my high beam is not what it should be. I have no means for comparison,
since I don't have another Emitter.
Roger Zoul
:: "David L. Johnson" <david....@ptd.net> wrote in message
I'll be looking forward to your follow up. I got my Nite-Hawk Emitter out
the day before yesterday...bought it last winter but didn't use it because I
didn't feel comfortable riding without being able to see off the the sides -
the beam is pretty narrow. So now i'm thinking of two lights on the handle
bars and one on the helmet. Anywho, I been testing the run-time on the
Nite-Hawk on the high beam. It's supposed to last 9 hours in that mode, but
so far it's been going for well over 24 hours -- it will be 36 hours by
12:35 pm today...the beam is a nice bright white and hasn't weaked at all.
In fact, last night the power in my neighborhood went out for over 2 hours.
So I used this light to see...since I couldn't go to the gym (no power), I
decided to do a dumbell workout at home. After that, as I was getting hot, I
went for a nice walk (I didn't go for a bike ride simply because I didn't
want to spend time trying to put the mounting bracket on the bike in the
dark - in my garage - where creepy crawly things live). Anywho, the light
was able to enable me to see the road well, even though there was a partial
full moon out. I'm a little concerned that maybe I'm not getting the
appropriate amount of light out of this unit as it's been going well over
the rated 9 hours for the high beam...the low beam is supposed to go for 92
hours or something like that. And these are the same batteries I put in
there last winter, even though I haven't really used the unit much. Also, I
do enjoy the bright white light...I'm not sure how I'd feel about the blue
tint on the Light & Motion....I'd be happy to hear your comments about that,
Rich.
Roger Zoul
::
::
http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop
I don't know if I can trust my impressions over this video, BUT, my
impression is that my Nite-hawk Emitter has a slightly wider beam and lasts
longer (currently over 24 hours on high beam!). And the bright white light
is nice....
I'd love to hear comments on this....
Peter Cole
> Peter Cole wrote:
> :: Joe Faust wrote:
> ::: On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
> ::: hours on 4 AA.
> :::
> ::
> :: Something sounds a little fishy. If a 2.5W (halogen) light runs for
> :: 3 hr on 4 AA's, how can a 1W light run 30 hr on the same batteries?
> ::
> :: I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
> :: lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries.
>
> May I ask why you got ride of it? I bought one last winter that I never
> really have used because I don't like having dark to the sides and also due
> to the fact that I can't see my bike on a really dark night.
I still have it, I bought it for my son, who crashed and broke the mount
(oddly, the light was not on the bike), I've been debating whether to go
through Nitehawk's reportedly crappy customer service to get a new one.
I've been using it as a work light, unfortunately I found that exposure
to automobile brake fluid (don't ask) caused the lens to crack. It still
works fine though. As a matter of fact, last week it allowed us to pick
our way through a narrow 3/4 mile harbor channel when we got caught out
after sunset on our sailboat in a very dense fog.
> I have been testing my Nitehawk
> Emitter since the night before last....so far it's still going on high beam
> for over 24 hours....sounds fishy to me, perhaps this unit is defective and
> my high beam is not what it should be. I have no means for comparison,
> since I don't have another Emitter.
I'm still on my original batteries, I'm guessing my total time used so
far is several hours, although I haven't been keeping track. I'd be
surprised if the light's burn time was really that much longer than
Nitehawk's own spec of 8 hr -- which relates roughly to a 1W electrical
load. My concern with the lights that claim 1W and 30 hr is that they're
using some kind of "incandescent equivalent" rating, like some of the
florescent bulb makers do.
During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high" setting?
When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye MicroII
and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer and narrower, but
had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about equal in
usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily being much longer
battery and bulb life, the low beam and whiteness over battery life
being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get another when
I can find it for $30-35USD.
David L. Johnson
> I'll admit I'm a little ignorant with regards to lighting. I have a
> VistaLite Nightstick 15 (two lamps: a 5W and 10W). I mostly use the 5W
> to shine at oncoming cars, and the 10W down on the road in front of me.
> Even with the 10W lamp, I sometimes feel that I'd like even more light
> than I have.
>
> Now, this Light & Motion is only a 3W light. Is that really enough for
> nighttime commuting on the road?
Don't you have any compact florescent lightbulbs? "60 watts of light for
only 14 watts of power"? Different lights use power differently.
Florescent bulbs are more efficient than incandescent bulbs, since less of
the energy is wasted as heat.
It's the same idea with various bike lights. Current halogen bulbs are
more efficient than standard incandescent, and HID is even better. But
LED lights are better still, in terms of light per watt. The limitation
with LEDs has been getting one big enough with enough output to use as a
headlight, and with a decent color. Taillights are almost universally
LEDs now, since they give off great be-seen light and even tiny batteries
last nearly forever. That was not the case for incandescent rear lights.
Or, are there other standards I need to
> know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
> VistaLite?
This is more or less the question I asked. It seems at least close.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy
rdclark
David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:48:32 +0000, Eric Babula wrote:
> Or, are there other standards I need to
> > know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
> > VistaLite?
>
> This is more or less the question I asked. It seems at least close.
I have a 15W single-lamp Niterider halogen, which has been a reliable
and sufficiencly bright light. But the battery uses up a bottle cage,
and now alsoneeds to be replaced.
I have a dual-halogen Performance light, with 15W total (one flood, one
spot), that has also been reliable but is not as subjectively bright as
the Niterider, and the very heavy battery also takes up a bottle cage.
And I have an Emitter, the Performance-branded one. It is not
sufficient by itself, but I value it as a supplement/backup in case of
lamp or battery failure of my main light.
I'm trying the L&M Vega in hope that it can equal the Niterider in
terms of overall brightness on the pavement, and allow me to reclaim
that bottle cage. Not having that second cage available makes me have
to carry my coffee thermos elsewhere, which forces me to add a pannier,
and the whole thing ends up adding an inordinate amount of weight to
the bike just to accommodate the battery. So it will be worth it to me
if I can use this new self-contained light instead, perhaps in tandem
with the Emitter.
RichC
frkr...@yahoo.com
David L. Johnson wrote:
>
> Don't you have any compact florescent lightbulbs? "60 watts of light for
> only 14 watts of power"? Different lights use power differently.
> Florescent bulbs are more efficient than incandescent bulbs, since less of
> the energy is wasted as heat.
>
> It's the same idea with various bike lights. Current halogen bulbs are
> more efficient than standard incandescent, and HID is even better. But
> LED lights are better still, in terms of light per watt.
I don't believe that's the case.
I know LEDs are improving very rapidly. But people have been claiming
for years that white LEDs are more efficient (more lumens per watt)
than halogen bulbs. It's my understanding that it only _recently_
became true for some white LEDs, but not most of them.
AFAIK, nobody is claiming that LEDs are more efficient than HID lamps.
Admittedly I'm just going by memory, and I've found data rather hard to
come by. But see
http://www2.whidbey.net/opto/LEDFAQ/The%20LED%20FAQ%20Pages.html#Q7
as one reference on this point.
Again, LEDs are improving rapidly. And that page is a few years old, I
think. But it's a little early to imagine LEDs beat all comers.
BTW, I think red LEDs beat red incandescents long ago, partly because
the incandescent actually puts out white (i.e. a mix of wavelengths)
and the red lens absorbed most of that white, leaving only the red to
pass. That caused much less efficiency than a white incandescent.
- Frank Krygowski
SMS
> I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
> lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries. I find it to be comparable
> to a 2.5W halogen like the Cateye MicroII (I have 3 of those). I paid
> about $30 for the Nitehawk, the Cateyes are as low as $8 recently. The
> current generation of white LEDs are somewhat more efficient than
> halogen, perhaps 2x, but not 10x.
Unfortunately, much of the efficiency gain is lost because it is not
possible to focus the output of the LED very well.
When you move to the 5W LEDs, they have a very short lifetime, and are
expensive to replace, but the 3W LEDs have a reasonable lifespan.
For "being seen" the LED lights are excellent, but for lighting up the
road they are not great.
REI has a good deal on the CygoLite Night Rover NiMH XTRA, for $70. It's
one 6W and one 10W beam.
"http://www.rei.com/product/47842645.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CYCLING_TOC"
Stephen Harding
> Now, this Light & Motion is only a 3W light. Is that really enough for
> nighttime commuting on the road? Or, are there other standards I need to
> know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
> VistaLite?
I believe candlepower ratings are what you'd want to compare.
Three Watts can be plenty sufficient for night time *road*
commuting. I use a 3W Lumotec Plus light powered by a
generator on my primary commuter.
How the lense shapes the light is really more important I
think than a Wattage rating.
SMH
Peter Cole
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
>> I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
>> lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries. I find it to be
>> comparable to a 2.5W halogen like the Cateye MicroII (I have 3 of
>> those). I paid about $30 for the Nitehawk, the Cateyes are as low as
>> $8 recently. The current generation of white LEDs are somewhat more
>> efficient than halogen, perhaps 2x, but not 10x.
>
>
> Unfortunately, much of the efficiency gain is lost because it is not
> possible to focus the output of the LED very well.
Given that the actual emitting surface of the LED is small, I'd think it
would be easier to focus them. The uniformity of the narrow Nitehawk
lamp seems to bear that out, if anything, the beam might be too narrow,
suggesting that it collimates well with a relatively small reflector. I
find them impressive side-by-side with a 2.5W halogen, but not
stunningly so -- by that I mean comparable light at a bit more than 1/3
the power consumption and a nicer beam pattern. Like those halogens, I
think it qualifies as a "bare minimum" bike light.
http://members.misty.com/don/led.html#w
UPDATE 7/31/2005: Lumileds white Luxeons typically produce 45 lumens at
350 mA with a typical voltage drop at 3.42 mA. This works out to 37.6
lumens/watt, although at a chip temperature of 25 degrees C which
requires a heatsink temperature of typically 1 degree C.
David L. Johnson
>
> I know LEDs are improving very rapidly. But people have been claiming
> for years that white LEDs are more efficient (more lumens per watt)
> than halogen bulbs. It's my understanding that it only _recently_
> became true for some white LEDs, but not most of them.
>
> AFAIK, nobody is claiming that LEDs are more efficient than HID lamps.
>
> Admittedly I'm just going by memory, and I've found data rather hard to
> come by. But see
> http://www2.whidbey.net/opto/LEDFAQ/The%20LED%20FAQ%20Pages.html#Q7
> as one reference on this point.
Well, I think their data is either old, or wrong, or someone else is. But
one thing is really confusing. As a bulb consumes power, that energy has
but two places to go, either light or heat. That article did claim that
LEDs run much cooler, but consume more energy than an incandescent ---
that seems to be contradictory on its face unless a lot of ultraviolet
light is thrown off as well. L&M claim their 3-watt LED produces 85 lumens
(it is also overdriven at 3.8-watts of power according to someone earlier
on this thread), for 22.3 lumens/watt, but that is much more than the less
than 8 lumens/watt claimed in the link above (they state that
incandescents produce 8 lumens/watt and are more efficient than LEDs).
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |
Roger Zoul
:> During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high" setting?
I made certain to test the setting before starting the test. As I wasn't
expect this, I checke it again last night. And since in 4 hours it will
have been burning for 36 hours, I just now checked it again. I'm on the
"high" setting. Of course, if the light is somehow defective, then maybe
"high" isn't what it's supposed to be. That's my concern.
:>
:> When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye MicroII
:> and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer and narrower,
:> but
:> had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about
:> equal in usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily being
:> much longer battery and bulb life, the low beam and whiteness over
:> battery life
:> being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get another
:> when
:> I can find it for $30-35USD.
Nashbar has it for $45 right now.
Joe Faust
<david....@ptd.net> wrote:
>
>Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
>light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
>My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
>something as usable.
I have a Niterider digital with battery which is great for lighting
the road, however the battery is quite heavy, and I loose a cage. I
just purchased a Luxeon Star 3 Watt LED Flashlight with bicycle mount
on ebay, $19.99 plus shipping.
Burn Time : 10 hours
Bulb Type : 1x Super Bright 3Watt Luxeon star LED
Bulb Life : 100,000 Hours
Battery Type : 3x 1.5V AAA Battery
Weight : 95g (without Batteries) 115g (with Batteries)
Product Size : 115mm (Length) x 33mm (Diameter)
Body : 29mm (Diameter)
I like the fact that I can use rechargeable AAA nicads, or lithium
batteries.
It is small and light enough to keep on the handlebar for very early
morning, or not too late afternoon rides. At these times of day, more
for being seen, than seeing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7171204615
Joe Faust
<david....@ptd.net> wrote:
>
>Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
>light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
>My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
>something as usable.
I have a Niterider digital with battery which is great for lighting
Joe Faust
<david....@ptd.net> wrote:
>
>Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
>light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
>My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
>something as usable.
I have a Niterider digital with battery which is great for lighting
Peter Cole
> Peter Cole <peter...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> :> During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high" setting?
>
> I made certain to test the setting before starting the test. As I wasn't
> expect this, I checke it again last night. And since in 4 hours it will
> have been burning for 36 hours, I just now checked it again. I'm on the
> "high" setting. Of course, if the light is somehow defective, then maybe
> "high" isn't what it's supposed to be. That's my concern.
>
I think what may be going on is that, as the battery voltage drops, so
does the light output, effectively switching (gradually) from high-power
to low-power mode. I had what I'd estimate to be several hours on the
original batteries on mine, just switched to fresh ones, and found the
light to be a bit brighter. On a battery checker, the original batteries
showed that they were significantly drained.
Bottom line, this is a 1W high-output LED lamp. At roughly 20
lumen/watt, it rivals the 2.5W halogens, which are around 10 lumen/watt.
LED lights with much longer "4-AA" burn times are using less than a 1W
LED, and are proportionally less bright.
The Light & Motion is apparently a 3W lamp, so puts out 3x the light of
the NiteHawk.
The Cateye EL-500 supposedly is also a 1W LED lamp, although it
advertises a 30 hr runtime (on 4xAA). I don't think it can run at full
power for that time, so it must be a "usable light" kind of spec, with
output falling off gradually.
The whole business of comparing lights based on spec is rather
frustrating. I think that manufacturers are all using basically the same
LEDs, and probably the same regulators/controllers, but they're not
going to tell you that.
I think the 1W LED lights are roughly equivalent to the well-known 2.4W
halogen lights, with better color, battery life, bulb life and low
voltage (dead/dying battery) performance. They are still kind of pricey
in comparison, and most people consider them a barely adequate "seeing"
light, and perhaps a less-adequate (than halogen) for their "be seen"
characteristics, due to narrower beam.
I think the 3W LED may be the ideal "everyman's" bike light, but they're
still very expensive.
> :>
> :> When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye MicroII
> :> and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer and narrower,
> :> but
> :> had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about
> :> equal in usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily being
> :> much longer battery and bulb life, the low beam and whiteness over
> :> battery life
> :> being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get another
> :> when
> :> I can find it for $30-35USD.
>
> Nashbar has it for $45 right now.
Yeah, I know, still too much $$ for me -- perhaps with a 20% coupon...
Roger Zoul
:> Roger Zoul wrote:
:>> Peter Cole <peter...@comcast.net> wrote:
:>>
:>> :> During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high"
:>> :> setting?
:>>
:>> I made certain to test the setting before starting the test. As I
:>> wasn't expect this, I checke it again last night. And since in 4
:>> hours it will have been burning for 36 hours, I just now checked it
:>> again. I'm on the "high" setting. Of course, if the light is
:>> somehow defective, then maybe "high" isn't what it's supposed to
:>> be. That's my concern.
:>>
:>
:> I think what may be going on is that, as the battery voltage drops,
:> so does the light output, effectively switching (gradually) from
:> high-power to low-power mode. I had what I'd estimate to be several
:> hours on the original batteries on mine, just switched to fresh
:> ones, and found the light to be a bit brighter. On a battery
:> checker, the original batteries showed that they were significantly
:> drained.
Okay....I think you've nailed it...the light is still on...so now it's
almost 50 hours running (admittedly w/ me turning it on/off to check which
beam is on). ..however, last night I did definitely notice a weaker
beam...before it wasn't nearly so obvious, but when I realized that I'd
never ride with so little light...somehow, for some reason, I was expecting
it to just die before 9 hrs on high beam...I thought these things were
supposed to put out constant light and then die, rather than just get
weaker. Anyhow, I don't need more than 7 hours of constant light and for
the most part, I don't plan to ride more than 3 hours after dark (I'll be
riding mainly for fitness, not for distance, this winter)
:>
:> Bottom line, this is a 1W high-output LED lamp. At roughly 20
:> lumen/watt, it rivals the 2.5W halogens, which are around 10
:> lumen/watt. LED lights with much longer "4-AA" burn times are using
:> less than a 1W LED, and are proportionally less bright.
:>
:> The Light & Motion is apparently a 3W lamp, so puts out 3x the light
:> of the NiteHawk.
Hmm...so I'm wondering if I should go with 2 Emitters on the handle bars and
one on my helmet...or get that L&M and one helmet light. I just feel I want
to be able to see off to the side on a night ride....also, I'd like to be
able to see my bike...and my computer...
I seem to recall that my main objection (or, discomfort) with the Emitter
was that the beam was just a bit too narrow for comfort...two Emitters
should solve that problem, I think. I'll probably go out tonight to get
another read on that....
As I already have this one Emitter, that's money under the bridge...so
another and $40 (with 10% off coupon) and then a helmet mount version at
$100, that's $140...versus $175 for the L&M...only thing is, I don't like
the switch on the Emitter...it hurts my fingers sometimes to switch off or
change the beam...and perhaps there is some other helmet light that is less
costly that will be just as good or better. I thinking turning a helmet
light on/off should be easy, and with the Emitter it would be a major pain.
I plan to use mine with 2300 mAh NiMI, so I'll need get a good idea of how
long these LED lights last with though (under full beam!!).
:>
:> The Cateye EL-500 supposedly is also a 1W LED lamp, although it
:> advertises a 30 hr runtime (on 4xAA). I don't think it can run at
:> full power for that time, so it must be a "usable light" kind of
:> spec, with output falling off gradually.
Yep. They should state that clearly.
:>
:> The whole business of comparing lights based on spec is rather
:> frustrating. I think that manufacturers are all using basically the
:> same LEDs, and probably the same regulators/controllers, but they're
:> not going to tell you that.
Seems like we really need a consumer advocacy rag or website that reviewers
products in-depth and provides meaningful data....I guess cycling is just
not as popular as computers :)
:>
:> I think the 1W LED lights are roughly equivalent to the well-known
:> 2.4W halogen lights, with better color, battery life, bulb life and
:> low voltage (dead/dying battery) performance. They are still kind of
:> pricey in comparison, and most people consider them a barely
:> adequate "seeing" light, and perhaps a less-adequate (than halogen)
:> for their "be seen" characteristics, due to narrower beam.
I went walking the other night during a neighborhood power outage...with the
Emitter in hand pointed at the road, on-coming cars seemed to see me just
fine and gave wide space while a good distance away....perhaps it would be
different on a much faster moving bike, but the light would be somewhat
higher up from the ground and pointed a bit more forward, I'd think.
:>
:> I think the 3W LED may be the ideal "everyman's" bike light, but
:> they're still very expensive.
Yeah, and lights generally seem to get used mostly during winter
months....when days are short. for what you pay it seems you get relatively
little usage for the money you pay.
:>
:>
:>> :>
:>> :> When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye
:>> :> MicroII and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer
:>> :> and narrower, but
:>> :> had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about
:>> :> equal in usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily
:>> :> being much longer battery and bulb life, the low beam and
:>> :> whiteness over battery life
:>> :> being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get
:>> :> another when
:>> :> I can find it for $30-35USD.
:>>
:>> Nashbar has it for $45 right now.
:>
:> Yeah, I know, still too much $$ for me -- perhaps with a 20%
:> coupon...
Yeah, all I've seen is a 10% coupon....decisions, decisions....
frkr...@yahoo.com
Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Seems like we really need a consumer advocacy rag or website that reviewers
> products in-depth and provides meaningful data....
As opposed to a magazine that might say "We loved the penetrating, yet
not harsh, beam of the new Zappo LED headlight. The light's carbon
fiber body nicely complimented our test bikes' carbon bars and bottle
cages, and the purple switch earned serious styling points. But it
weighed a hefty 18 grams, and during our blackout test, the light was a
little uneven for shaving our legs. So we give it only 9.5 out of ten
chainrings."
>
> I went walking the other night during a neighborhood power outage...with the
> Emitter in hand pointed at the road, on-coming cars seemed to see me just
> fine and gave wide space while a good distance away....perhaps it would be
> different on a much faster moving bike, but the light would be somewhat
> higher up from the ground and pointed a bit more forward, I'd think.
Actually, I don't know if you want to put too much stock in that
particular test. When my wife and I take our nighttime walks, I carry
one of those flat, 3/4" diameter single LED keychain lights. Motorists
see us just fine even with that, but I'd never consider it adequate for
biking.
>From what I've read, the swinging motion of walking seems to trigger
something special in an observer's brain. That motion is absent in a
normally mounted bike headlight. (This is why pedal reflectors are so
effective, supposedly.)
Why not get a friend to ride your bike with that headlight, as you
drive by in a car from various directions? That would tell you a lot
about how well you're being seen.
- Frank Krygowski
Roger Zoul
:> Roger Zoul wrote:
:>>
:>> Seems like we really need a consumer advocacy rag or website that
:>> reviewers products in-depth and provides meaningful data....
:>
:> As opposed to a magazine that might say "We loved the penetrating,
:> yet
:> not harsh, beam of the new Zappo LED headlight. The light's carbon
:> fiber body nicely complimented our test bikes' carbon bars and bottle
:> cages, and the purple switch earned serious styling points. But it
:> weighed a hefty 18 grams, and during our blackout test, the light
:> was a little uneven for shaving our legs. So we give it only 9.5
:> out of ten chainrings."
:)
:>
:>>
:>> I went walking the other night during a neighborhood power
:>> outage...with the Emitter in hand pointed at the road, on-coming
:>> cars seemed to see me just fine and gave wide space while a good
:>> distance away....perhaps it would be different on a much faster
:>> moving bike, but the light would be somewhat higher up from the
:>> ground and pointed a bit more forward, I'd think.
:>
:> Actually, I don't know if you want to put too much stock in that
:> particular test. When my wife and I take our nighttime walks, I
:> carry
:> one of those flat, 3/4" diameter single LED keychain lights.
:> Motorists
:> see us just fine even with that, but I'd never consider it adequate
:> for biking.
:>
:>>From what I've read, the swinging motion of walking seems to trigger
:> something special in an observer's brain. That motion is absent in a
:> normally mounted bike headlight. (This is why pedal reflectors are
:> so effective, supposedly.)
Interesting.
:>
:> Why not get a friend to ride your bike with that headlight, as you
:> drive by in a car from various directions? That would tell you a lot
:> about how well you're being seen.
A good suggestion and a seemingly simple thing to do. Yet, I find doing it
challenging. I don't have a cycling friend handy right now....I'll keep an
eye out, though. :)
frkr...@yahoo.com
Roger Zoul wrote:
> frkr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> :> Why not get a friend to ride your bike with that headlight, as you
> :> drive by in a car from various directions? That would tell you a lot
> :> about how well you're being seen.
>
> A good suggestion and a seemingly simple thing to do. Yet, I find doing it
> challenging. I don't have a cycling friend handy right now....I'll keep an
> eye out, though. :)
Is there a bike club in your area?
I've organized "Night Riding Workshops" for my club several times,
where we did just that. They were quite popular.
- Frank Krygowski
Roger Zoul
There is...and a bike shop willing to help out! I'm sure I could get it
done there if I buy something! :) Thanks.
Peter Cole
> Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
> light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
> My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
> something as usable.
>
<http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop>
Just zis Guy, you know?
<pan.2005.10.13....@ptd.net> dtd Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:29:44
-0400:
>Has LED lighting come of age yet?
Quite likely, Busch & Muller are doing it after all...
I'll let you know when mine arrive :-)
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound