Ken Kifer
Chris B.
<kevans...@yahoo.c0/\/\> wrote:
>I didn't know him personally, but his web pages provided me with very useful
>information (http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/). If you've cited any stats in
>the h*lm*t threads, chances are you've used his pages, too. His writings
>revealed a person of gentle character and even temperament completely committed
>to bicycling.
>
>Mr. Kifer was killed by a drunk driver about six miles from his home late
>Saturday night. This has been confirmed by people on his mailing list, bicycling
>advocacy, at Yahoo! (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/).
>
>I hope I am wrong.
This is very sad news. I can't help but wonder how long it will take
for the victim blaming to start.
I respect his philosophy not only on cycling but on living life in
general. I really appreciated his web site and I hope that the ideas
and opinions he conveyed through his valuable work will live on.
Though the circumstances of his death are very unfortunate, I suspect
that he had a happier life and died with fewer regrets than most.
Still, it's a shame someone had to go and kill him.
--
Chris Bird
Pete
"Kevan Smith" <kevans...@yahoo.c0/\/\> wrote in message
news:v5rbmv81g605gb3h2...@4ax.com...
> I didn't know him personally, but his web pages provided me with very
useful
> information (http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/). If you've cited any
stats in
> the h*lm*t threads, chances are you've used his pages, too. His writings
> revealed a person of gentle character and even temperament completely
committed
> to bicycling.
>
> Mr. Kifer was killed by a drunk driver about six miles from his home late
> Saturday night. This has been confirmed by people on his mailing list,
bicycling
> advocacy, at Yahoo! (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/).
>
> I hope I am wrong.
No. No. No. No
DAMMIT
Pete
other words fail me.
Frederic Briere
> Mr. Kifer was killed by a drunk driver about six miles from his home late
> Saturday night. This has been confirmed by people on his mailing list, bicycling
> advocacy, at Yahoo! (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/).
I've wanted to ask Ken a few questions about his rides and experiences,
but I'd always put it off for some reason. Now I feel silly for not
emailing him when I had the chance.
Today I felt like going for a ride, but decided against it as I had some
work left to do, and forecasts called for some showers, and the rain
pants I ordered from MEC haven't arrived yet. Then I read about Ken's
death, and thought, screw that. I can take care of work tomorrow, and
it's too hot for wearing rain pants anyway. (Besides, getting wet can
be fun sometimes.) So I just filled my water bottle, and now I'm going
out for a ride in his memory.
Carpe diem.
--
Frederic Briere <*> fbr...@fbriere.net
=> <fbr...@abacom.com> IS NO MORE: <http://www.abacomsucks.com> <=
Top Sirloin
wrote:
>This is very sad news. I can't help but wonder how long it will take
>for the victim blaming to start.
Our society is to blame for not putting drunk drivers in jail for a loooong
time, as opposed to giving them a slap on the hand.
Last year I traded some emails with Ken about the nutritional info on his site,
just trying to provide another view. He was gracious and tenacious. :-)
--
Scott Johnson
"be a man ,stop looking for handouts , eat ,lift and shut your mouth"
-John Carlo
Brunswick_kate
saddened to hear of this loss.
Comfort to those who grieve.
--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
Eric S. Sande
diaries he inspired me to become a better cyclist and to challenge
myself to examine my own life, as he constantly examined his own.
He will always be a hero to me.
I remember discovering his writings some years ago and being
absolutely impressed by their literacy, honesty, and the pure
sense of joy that they conveyed.
Yes, there were dark times there, but Ken always seemed certain
of his path. He was a humane and intelligent man who was living
his philosophy with total commitment.
I am going to miss Ken Kifer. But I am going to keep what he taught
me, because Ken was an excellent teacher both of cycle touring and
other, more important things.
I'll try to honor his memory in every way I can, and may his soul
find peace.
Steve McDonald
Scott Johnson wrote:
>Our society is to blame for not putting drunk
>drivers in jail for a loooong time, as opposed to
>giving them a slap on the hand.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I have heard that in Sweden, if drivers are convicted of DUIL just
one time, they lose their licenses for life. They also say that very
few drivers make this mistake, knowing the consequences. If someone
from Sweden could comment on this, it would be helpful. On another
note, congratulations to the Swedes for wisely rejecting the proposed
shift to the euro and retaining their own currency.
What would be the effect in the U.S. if everyone who had ever been
convicted of DUIL had their licenses jerked? Would mass transit and the
bicycle industry flourish or would there be a mass rebellion by those
who were banned and a further weakening of compliance with traffic laws?
Steve McDonald
di
"Steve McDonald" <bigroc...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9589-3F6...@storefull-2112.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Peter Cole
news:9589-3F6...@storefull-2112.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>
>
> >Our society is to blame for not putting drunk
> >drivers in jail for a loooong time, as opposed to
> >giving them a slap on the hand.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have heard that in Sweden, if drivers are convicted of DUIL just
> one time, they lose their licenses for life. They also say that very
> few drivers make this mistake, knowing the consequences. If someone
> from Sweden could comment on this, it would be helpful.
I used to travel frequently to Sweden on business. People were extremely
careful about drinking and driving. Although the Swedes I was with drank a
lot, anyone who drove drank zero, not a few, but zero. I saw things like
chartered buses bringing partiers from nightclubs after closing to public
transport terminals. I haven't been back in several years, but I doubt if
things have gotten more lax.
R.White
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:28:36 GMT, Chris B. <bikerider@-nospam-thanks-rogers.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This is very sad news. I can't help but wonder how long it will take
> >for the victim blaming to start.
>
> Our society is to blame for not putting drunk drivers in jail for a loooong
> time, as opposed to giving them a slap on the hand.
I don't think so. "Our society" wants the hand slapping to stop,
but liberal judges, bleeding heart juries, and lenient laws that
vary too much from state to state all add up to killers still behind
the wheel.
smokey
> wrote:
>
> >This is very sad news. I can't help but wonder how long it will take
> >for the victim blaming to start.
>
> Our society is to blame for not putting drunk drivers in jail for a loooong
> time, as opposed to giving them a slap on the hand.
>
> Last year I traded some emails with Ken about the nutritional info on his site,
> just trying to provide another view. He was gracious and tenacious. :-)
ken had one of the best cycling pages on the internet. i visited it
often and learned a lot. DUI in this society, like other types of
crime and also politics (sometimes the same thing), is often a money
game. have enough money and you can get out of any DUI with a slap on
the wrist, even when a fatality is involved. let's hope it doesn't
happen this time. R.I.P., ken.
smokey
Steven M. Scharf
> What would be the effect in the U.S. if everyone who had ever been
> convicted of DUIL had their licenses jerked?
They would continue to drive.
onefred
really is screwed up.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the drunk driver was an off duty cop. Late at night,
we find lots of drunk police chiefs running the streets around here!
Dave
Scott
Scott
"Eric S. Sande" <esa...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<3F66AC64...@erols.com>...
Just zis Guy, you know?
>I don't think so. "Our society" wants the hand slapping to stop,
>but liberal judges, bleeding heart juries, and lenient laws that
>vary too much from state to state all add up to killers still behind
>the wheel.
It's more that a jury of twelve drivers won't send another of their
number down for something they probably do themselves.
Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
Robert Dole
> I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the drunk driver was an off duty cop.
No. The drunk driver was someone who had just been released -- earlier
that day -- from serving minor time for substance abuse. He seems to
have been a serious repeat offender.
Ken had gone on a bike trip earlier this year of about 6,000 miles --
from Alabama up to the northwestern US, up to Canada, and then back
down. However, he was killed very near his home.
Another poster mentioned that "blame the victim" would soon start.
Anybody going down this route would be strongly advised to start with
Ken's voluminous writings on this topic. The link is right here:
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/traffic/index.htm
This is an index page to at least 17 articles by Ken on bicycling
safety.
Although I never had the opportunity to meet Ken personally, or ride
with him, he did not seem like the type of person who would write one
way, and ride another.
David L. Johnson
> On 16 Sep 2003 04:44:07 -0700, bic...@charter.net (R.White) wrote:
>
>>I don't think so. "Our society" wants the hand slapping to stop, but
>>liberal judges, bleeding heart juries, and lenient laws that vary too
>>much from state to state all add up to killers still behind the wheel.
>
> It's more that a jury of twelve drivers won't send another of their number
> down for something they probably do themselves.
That is unfair. That jury of 12 drivers is not a jury of 12 reckless
fools who would drive while drunk. Not all drivers are murderers, and
most drivers have no sympathy for murderers, just because they are
drivers.
This guy was a repeat offender who cannot be trusted to take minimal care
for the safety of others. He needs to be incarcerated. This from a
liberal. It ain't the liberals that let drunk drivers get away with
murder. It's the good ol' boys. They figure that they've driven home
drunk themselves -- they sympathize with a guy who needs a belt or two to
face life, and think their "right" to drive shouldn't be taken away just because
they killed someone.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |
onefred
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/fitness.htm
Dave
Brent Hugh
>Mr. Kifer was killed by a drunk driver about six miles from his home
late
>Saturday night. This has been confirmed by people on his mailing
list, bicycling
>advocacy, at Yahoo!
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/).
>
>I hope I am wrong.
Here is an article with some details about how it happened:
http://www.thedailysentinel.com/story.lasso?wcd=167
The gist of it is that the driver was a repeated DUI offender who had
been arrested the day before for DUI and open container violations.
He had been released from jail just four hours before he killed Ken.
He was driving a Chevy S-10 pickup at very high speed and under the
influence of drugs and alcohol. He was driving south while Ken was
riding north in the opposite lane. The driver was originally charged
with assault but the charge has now been upgraded to murder.
Someone else pointed out this quote from Ken's web site:
"[O]ver the years, many authorities and motorists have mistakenly come
to see driving a motor vehicle as an unrevocable right, and thus even
drivers who have caused numerous collisions due to speeding, reckless
behavior, drinking, or other disorders are allowed unrestricted
driving and are often not punished in any way, even after killing
someone due to their clearly faulty behavior. Fortunately, we are
beginning to see an end to the concept of the highway as being a wild
frontier and the last lawless area. I think we should take traffic
infractions seriously. The purpose of streets and highways should be
to efficiently and safely transport people and goods from one area to
another. They should not be places for people to work out their
aggressions."
Obviously this hasn't happened yet. But maybe events like Ken's death
will galvanize the rest of us to help *make* it happen.
--Brent
bhugh [at] mwsc.edu
www.mobikefed.org
Goimir
> > Our society is to blame for not putting drunk drivers in jail for a loooong
> > time, as opposed to giving them a slap on the hand.
>
> I don't think so. "Our society" wants the hand slapping to stop,
> but liberal judges, bleeding heart juries, and lenient laws that
> vary too much from state to state all add up to killers still behind
> the wheel.
"Our society" has the highest per capita incarceration rate of any other
country in the free world. There simply isn't room for everyone in jail
who should be in there.
Alot of these people in jail are nonviolent drug offenders.
Think about that.
David Reuteler
: minorities will be imprisoned mainly on terror charges.
rather, in the future it will be a terroristic act to sell drugs. since the
money goes to al-qaeda and all.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Steven M. O'Neill
>Kevan Smith <kevans...@yahoo.c0/\/\> wrote:
>: For now that's true as a result of the so-called war on drugs. IN the future,
>: minorities will be imprisoned mainly on terror charges.
>
>rather, in the future it will be a terroristic act to sell drugs.
And gasoline.
>since the money goes to al-qaeda and all.
--
Steven O'Neill ste...@panix.com
www.bridgetolls.org
brian hughes
"Goimir" <neon...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3F709595...@adelphia.net...
>
> Alot of these people in jail are nonviolent drug offenders.
>
>
> Think about that.
Okay, I'm thinking, when a nonviolent drug offender is released from jail,
then goes out and kills someone with his truck 4 hours later (like Mr
kifer), is he still considered a nonviolent drug offender? If so can we at
least consider him a nonviolent killer?
David Reuteler
: Okay, I'm thinking, when a nonviolent drug offender is released from jail,
: then goes out and kills someone with his truck 4 hours later (like Mr
: kifer), is he still considered a nonviolent drug offender? If so can we at
: least consider him a nonviolent killer?
?
certainly you can call him a nonviolent killer after he's killed someone.
are you saying we should keep drug offenders in jail for the possibility
they may DUI after they get out (when they may have no record of it)?
seems like bad legal form to say the least.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
brian hughes
>
> certainly you can call him a nonviolent killer after he's killed someone.
>
> are you saying we should keep drug offenders in jail for the possibility
> they may DUI after they get out (when they may have no record of it)?
> seems like bad legal form to say the least.
I'm thinking in this case there was a record of repeat offenses--at least
the story I read it indicated that. In Albuquerque there was a 21 year-old
guy that recently ran over a 15 year-old skate boarder and was later
arrested and charged with fleeing the scene. The 21 year-old had 41 total
offences (driving with some alcohol related) already on his record (yes 41,
that's not a typo). Yet he wasn't behind bars because he apparently was
considered non-violent. That is what seems to be a bad legal system to
me--to say the least--to just let someone go until they finally actually
kill someone.
Brian
brian hughes
> are you saying we should keep drug offenders in jail for the possibility
> they may DUI after they get out (when they may have no record of it)?
> seems like bad legal form to say the least.
I'm sorry I was going to ignore this, but your statement just doesn't make
any sense. If they are in jail for a drug offence, they have a record of
DUI.
David Reuteler
:> are you saying we should keep drug offenders in jail for the possibility
? i'm sure there any number of drug offenders in jail who have no record
of driving under the influence. maybe they ordered in for pizza when they
got the munchies.
i would agree with you, though, that any imprisoned offender with a record
of causing repeated harm to others in the way you stated is probably best not
categorized as non-violent.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
David Kerber
bandjhughes@.nospam.earthlink.net says...
Not necessarily: most drug offences don't involve driving.
--
Dave Kerber
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