Sacramento fixed-gear bikes: braking the law
Ablang
Sacramento fixed-gear bikes: braking the law
Sacramento police recently began targeting illegal fixed-gear bikes.
But are the brake-free rides really dangerous, or are cops simply
going after a counterculture scene?
By Nick Miller
http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento...nt?oid=1304912
This article was published on 10.22.09.
Bicyclists stop their fixed-gear bikes by going against the crank’s
rotation (pictured) instead of using a hand brake.
PHOTO BY DAVID JAYNE
John Cardiel dashed down Ninth Street on his fixed-gear bike, tearing
southward in the right-hand lane, when he heard yelling, which grew
louder and closer. He looked over his shoulder and saw two Sacramento
police officers on bikes trailing him, hollering, “Stop!”
Cardiel explains that he “skidded to an immediate stop.” Then, he
describes that the cops applied their hand brakes and slid past him.
“One guy almost fell over. I had more control than they did,” Cardiel
remembers.
A professional skateboarder and expert cyclist, Cardiel appears in
Colin Arlen and Colby Elrick’s film Macaframa, a documentary
showcasing precision tricks and maneuvers by skilled fixed-gear bikers
that screened to a sold-out Crest Theatre crowd earlier this year.
But mere blocks from the Crest, Sacramento bike police had pulled the
accomplished rider over because he didn’t have a hand brake, which is
in violation of California Vehicle Code 21201(a). Fixies, whose
popularity has blown up in recent years, have no free wheel and cannot
coast, so riders come to a stop by going against the crank’s rotation
and skidding instead of using a hand brake.
This year, however, the city began targeting bikes without hand
brakes. And so Cardiel received a $25 fix-it ticket and would have to
install a new brake.
Other cyclists, though, have had it worse off: City police have
confiscated and impounded fixed-gear bikes, costing cyclists hundreds
of dollars in fines, repairs and court appearances—and in many cases,
their only means of transportation.
“It kind of harshed my summer. I really didn’t want to go downtown
anymore. It put a fear of police on my back,” Cardiel says of the
incident.
Sacramento’s lead bike cop, Sgt. David Valdez, however, says the city
is just enforcing California law, which states: “No person shall
operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with a brake.”
Valdez argues that fixed-gear bicyclists riding without hand brakes
are breaking this law.
“It seems to be a trend, not only here but across the nation,” says
Valdez. “These bicycles are a danger and present a clear hazard not
only for the cyclist but also pedestrians and people in vehicles.”
The city says it has actively been enforcing this law for the past six
months.
Cardiel calls the rule “terrible.”
SN&R art director David Jayne stopped and photographed Jacob Swift
(left) and Brian Morrison (right) on 20th Street in Midtown. Both
riders told Jayne that they’d been pulled over by Sacramento bike
police in recent months.
PHOTO BY DAVID JAYNE
“I think it’s totally messed up. We’re a society trying to get people
out of cars and promote cycling, but on the other hand you’re taking
kids’ bikes,” Cardiel says.
Other local cycling experts agree. Sage Bauers, a bike mechanic at
south Sacramento’s Bicycle Business, calls the no-brake rule “pretty
ridiculous.”
“There are a lot of people who can effectively control their bikes
without brakes,” he argues.
The city says that it doesn’t track data on fixed-gear bike
violations, but Valdez estimates that he writes at least five
citations a week. Both Valdez and Bicycle Business’ Bauers say that
fix-it tickets, where the city demands that riders install a hand
brake on their fixie, are “common.”
Cardiel thinks all this is causing a “stink between the youth and
police.” Of course, as a venerable local skater, he has witnessed this
before: police regularly confiscating skateboards and targeting
skaters in the ’80s and ’90s.
“It’s such a cliché [and] easy thing to say—‘they’re targeting us!’—
but I do feel this. They see these kids riding around [on fixed gears]
and they jump on them,” Cardiel says.
What’s more, authorities also have begun seizing and impounding fixed-
gear bikes more frequently.
This past July, a longstanding fixed-gear rider—he would prefer to
remain anonymous, so we’ll call him “Evan”—was heading west on L
Street, near 21st Street, when a Sacramento bike cop pulled him over.
“I asked him why and he said, ‘No brakes,’” Evan says. Earlier that
day, Evan’s car caught on fire; he mentioned this to the officer.
“‘Well, your day’s about to get a lot worse, because you’re not
leaving with your bicycle,’” the cop said, according to Evan, who
pleaded for a fix-it ticket but was denied. Instead, the cop impounded
Evan’s bike and sent it to the evidence department off of Richards
Boulevard. Evan received a $168 fine, too.
It gets worse.
A cyclist either has to pay the no-brake fine or wait up to 60 days to
contest the citation in Sacramento County’s Carol Miller Justice
Center. Evan went without transportation for a few weeks, but
eventually coughed up the fee and installed a brake on his fixie.
If this fixie bike had a brake, it probably would go here, on the
handlebar. Many fixed-gear riders, however, mount their brakes in
unconventional locations so as to disguise them.
PHOTO BY DAVID JAYNE
Of the new brake, he says he’s “never touched it.”
“[I’m] pretty confident that the police don’t understand these bikes,”
says Evan, who argues that fixies “fall within the law” because they
are “capable of coming to a one-wheeled skid stop.”
The city police and district attorney’s office both contend, on the
other hand, that legs don’t count as a braking mechanism. But Evan
points out that there’s no brake in existence that operates without
human muscle, whether hands or legs. “I wouldn’t get on a bike without
brakes and go down the street. That’s not what [a fixie] is,” he
explains.
The district attorney’s office says they’ve seized 18 bikes for
“evidence” and 19 for “safekeeping” in 2009.
To get around the police hand-brake-enforcement campaign, Bicycle
Business’ Bauers says that fixie riders are installing hand brakes on
their bikes in unconventional—and even dangerous—ways.
Typically, hand brakes are fixed on handlebars so that bikers have
quick access to them. But because most fixed-gear riders don’t even
use hand brakes—and because a fixie’s design aesthetic strives for a
minimalist look—Bauers says he’s seen brakes mounted on seat tubes,
fork blades (the part of a bike that holds the front wheel) and in
places where “it’s totally legal by technicality [but] not useful at
all.”
He notes that riding your bike but having to reach down below your
seat or between your legs to stop can be awkward, or dangerous, even
at slow speeds. But Bauers also says he doesn’t think anyone is using
these unconventional brakes anyway.
Both Cardiel and Bauers suggest that police target out-of-control and
unsafe bicyclists instead of focusing on a particular model.
“I wouldn’t say it’s an issue of the bike, I would say it’s more an
issue with the rider,” Bauers argues. He says some kids will jump onto
a brake-free fixed-gear bike and tear around downtown in something
“they can’t really control,” and that’s a cause for alarm.
Cardiel agrees. “Some of these kids are going kind of nuts,” he says,
but concedes that evaluating whether a rider has control of his bike
is “a hard thing to gauge.”
Ultimately, most fixed-gear riders feel this fixie goose chase needs
to come to a halt.
Cardiel would like to see more support from the city, like increasing
the number of urban bike lanes and more enforcement against red-light
violators and sidewalk riders.
“I think it’s really hypocritical, because [the city] wants people to
be more conscientious, more eco-friendly and support bike riding,” he
says. “But in turn, they’re taking kids’ bikes and trying to make
money off of it.”
thirty-six
independant means of braking of which includes the front wheel. I
can't recall whether a hand operated brake has to be fitted to the
steering bar, possibly a spoon brake under the fork crown with an
attached handle would satisfy But then what of a gloved hand. Isn't
that a hand brake? Leg power does for the rear wheel when fitted with
a fixed sprocket.
If the fixed rider is wearing gloves, he could argue that the glove is
his braking 'device', if that is what is required by the technicality
of the law. He would likely have to demonstrate this before the
court.
Tom Sherman °_°
> < Unbelievable isn't it? >
>
> Sacramento fixed-gear bikes: braking the law
> Sacramento police recently began targeting illegal fixed-gear bikes.
> But are the brake-free rides really dangerous, or are cops simply
"Counterculture" is really just another strict conformist group. There
is no reason not to have a front brake [1] other than wanting to look
"hip". I find the whining of these over-grown brats about being ticketed
to be amusing.
[1] The amount of money spent on these bicycles indicates that poverty
is not an excuse.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
Norman
> If the fixed rider is wearing gloves, he could argue that the glove is
> his braking 'device', if that is what is required by the technicality
> of the law. He would likely have to demonstrate this before the
> court.
Mr. Flintstone, do you honestly expect the court to
accept that a hole cut in your floorboards is supposed
to be a conforming braking device? Do you take this
court for a fool, Mr. Fintstone?
thirty-six
Fred would fail, he didn't wear shoes iirc, so was not equipped.
John Thompson
> "Counterculture" is really just another strict conformist group. There
> is no reason not to have a front brake [1] other than wanting to look
> "hip". I find the whining of these over-grown brats about being ticketed
> to be amusing.
>
> [1] The amount of money spent on these bicycles indicates that poverty
> is not an excuse.
Oh, come on, Tom. You *know* that if you have to choose between spending
$100 on a set of Toshi double straps or $50 on a front brake that the
Toshis are the only real choice.
--
-John (jo...@os2.dhs.org)
Bill Baka
Yes!
With shoes on I just jam my shoe (sneaker, not clip) between the rear
wheel and seat tube and I don't have to skid but can wear a rut in your
shoe. It isn't rocket science.
I live just North of Sacramento and haven't heard it on the local news,
but our mayor, another wonder boy like Obama, probably never rode
bicycles that much.
Bill Baka
Leo Lichtman
"Norman" wrote: Mr. Flintstone, do you honestly expect the court to
accept that a hole cut in your floorboards is supposed
to be a conforming braking device? Do you take this
court for a fool, Mr. Fintstone?
Your honor, you don't have to be a fool to see that a fixed gear bicycle,
hereinafter referred to as a "fixie," is just a simplified version of the
traditional and time-honored coaster brake, wherein reverse torque is
applied to the pedals in order to produce braking on the rear wheel.
thirty-six
I think the problem lies in that the pedal crank, chain and sprocket
system was not designed as a braking device. Or at least it is not
known to have been designed as a braking device. Perhaps if the
cranks were emblazoned with "Bill's Brakes" and Bill had submitted an
application on his mechanism for patent, then the court could not
proceed to judgement without investigation as to the device's
efficiency in braking. The pedal crank should be referred to as the
wheel control device. Muscles can also resist greater forces than
they can provide. So a rider stops much quicker than he can
accelerate in even a low speed range. Actually in the wet with smooth
high pressure tyres it is easy for an experienced rider to spin the
wheel on a fixed gear bicycle with a low gear and so braking
efficiency in the wet is purely down to tyre adhesion to the road.
I've not heard that any device is required. In the UK, the device for
braking the rear wheel is the same as the propulsive components, that
of pedals,cranks,chain and sprockets.
Another argument may be with reference to a runner. Should he don a
special device so as to enable him to stop, a drag anchor? Or is he
capable of stopping using his leg muscles? I think he might find it
less stressful to stop quickly if he had a bicycle between himself and
the ground. With repeatability in the equation,this would mean that
the bicycle rider stop in a shorter distance than the runner from the
same speed. When a runner is going full pelt, it is difficult for
him, and so it takes time, to modify his gait to establish braking.
The fixed gear cyclist is at much advantage, for when he decides to
brake he has already actioned it.
D_Frum...@ndersnat.ch
> > Sacramento fixed-gear bikes: braking the law
> > Sacramento police recently began targeting illegal fixed-gear bikes.
> > But are the brake-free rides really dangerous, or are cops simply
> > going after a counterculture scene?[...]
> "Counterculture" is really just another strict conformist group. There
> is no reason not to have a front brake [1] other than wanting to look
> "hip". I find the whining of these over-grown brats about being ticketed
> to be amusing.
> [1] The amount of money spent on these bicycles indicates that poverty
> is not an excuse.
For some reason, bikes are subject to fads, many of which run counter
to efficiency and safety. My very first bike was a hand-me-down that
was designed to look as much as possible like a car, right down to the
grayhound "hood ornament" on the front fender.
Anybody remember "sting ray" bikes, the ones with the undersized
frames, banana seats, and high-riser handlebars? And then suddenly,
everybody was a racer and had to have a "ten-speed." After that the fad
switched to trail bikes. Nowadays there's more variety available in the
typical bike shop, but there are still some fads, like the bikes that
are designed to look like "chopper" motorcycles, complete with massive,
four-inch-wide slick rear tires and extended front forks.
Fixies are a fad too. There is no defensible reason why they can't
have hand brakes in addition to the back-pressure method of stopping.
Bill (Frumious)
__o | Conservatism makes no poetry, breathes no prayer,
_`\(,_ | has no invention; it is all memory.
(_)/ (_) | --Ralph Waldo Emerson
Király
> Fixies are a fad too. There is no defensible reason why they can't
> have hand brakes in addition to the back-pressure method of stopping.
The fixie defenders will maintain that "I have the leg skills to stop
just as well as somebody with front and rear hand brakes".
I think half of their belief is a lack of understanding of the physics
of bicycle braking, and the other half is a machismo-inspired
unwillingness to understand it.
With no front brake, one needs twice the time and twice the distance to
stop, compared to somebody with a front brake. If you are riding on a
paved surface and you have a front brake, you don't need your rear brake
*at all*.
--
K.
Lang may your lum reek.
thirty-six
> The fixie defenders will maintain that "I have the leg skills to stop
> just as well as somebody with front and rear hand brakes".
Clearly false.
>
> I think half of their belief is a lack of understanding of the physics
> of bicycle braking, and the other half is a machismo-inspired
> unwillingness to understand it.
>
> With no front brake, one needs twice the time and twice the distance to
> stop, compared to somebody with a front brake.
Not quite that bad. Because a track bikes rear wheel is generally
tucked in as close as chain adjustment allows to the seat tube, when
the rider shift his weight backward with a locked wheel on a dry road
surface the stopping distance is generally shorter than most childs
bikes. If the rider has enhanced skills, he may brake harder than
this by sliding side ways, putting the braking tyre patch further
forward in relation to his CofG. This is almost as good as maximum
braking with a front brake but is severe on the tyre and you may not
have the room to perform the stunt when you really need to use it.
Tom Keats
I don't recall during the course of my half-century+ lifetime
bicycle riding evoking so much law enforcement as it does now.
Perhaps it indicates cyclists are finally becoming a known
quantity in the collective mind of the general public.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
thirty-six
> m...@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) considered Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:46:28 GMT
> the perfect time to write:
> wheel, so you lose much more than half the braking, and therefore need
> much more than twice the stopping distance,
> Somewhere between 3 and 4 times the distance, in fact.
On a wet road with a slick tyre. On a dry road with a reasonable (not
skinny) tyre, rear braking alone can be acceptable if body weight is
shifted back. You cannot shift bodyweight as far back when holding
onto brake levers as is possible on a track bike. On a road with
little camber, the rider only needs to hold the stem to effect
steering when braking, which means his weight can be further back. So
'in fact' it appears your assumptions of braking performance are
clearly ill-founded.
landotter
> Tom Sherman °_° <twshermanREM...@thissouthslope.net> wrote:
>
> > > Sacramento fixed-gear bikes: braking the law
> > > Sacramento police recently began targeting illegal fixed-gear bikes.
> > > But are the brake-free rides really dangerous, or are cops simply
> > > going after a counterculture scene?[...]
They're dangerous and illegal.
The real story would be a psychological profile piece on people that
consistently need to set themselves up to be victims as a component of
their "scene".
I mean--would a drunk driver have a leg to stand on if he demanded
respect because he was supporting the troops by driving a Cavalier?
Hahahaha!
thirty-six
> thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> considered Mon, 2 Nov 2009 04:23:11
> of us.
> The limit on braking is defined by the angle between the front wheel
> contact point and the CofG, because weight transfers onto the front
> wheel when braking.
Again. Without brake levers the CofG can be taken further rearwards
so that more weight is taken by the rear wheel when braking. You dont
need to be in the hooks to brake if it wont do you any good..
Norman
I ride fixed-gear bicycles year 'round and I have no idea
how to do what you are proposing. In any reasonable
gear for road riding (>58in) you cannot lock up the rear
wheel without shifting your weight forward. Further, on
every road bicycle I have ridden, I can swing behind the
saddle with my ass nearly brushing the tire while braking.
I can't really do that on a fixed gear, at least easily.
thirty-six
Move the handlebars close. Jump the rear wheel and hang behind the
saddle. You should lock the rear wheel easily.
thirty-six
> thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> considered Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:27:16
> produces enough unloading of the rear wheel that the tyre will no
> longer grip. The front wheel braking is limited only by the need to
> stop the rear wheel actually rising.
>
> There's one hell of a difference between just keeping the rear wheel
> on the ground and keeping enough weight on it to provide any useful
> grip for braking.
>
> The best use for rear wheel braking in an emergency or maximum effort
> stop is to judge when the rear wheel is about to lift, at which point
> it will start sliding.
This thread is about track bikes (without specific mechaincal braking
devices).
Tom Sherman °_°
> [...]
> You must live somewhere with different laws of physics than the rest
> of us.
> The limit on braking is defined by the angle between the front wheel
> contact point and the CofG, because weight transfers onto the front
> wheel when braking.
On a recumbent lowracer or tadpole trike with a low seat, it is possible
to lock the front wheel(s) on dry pavement.
Tom Sherman °_°
> [...]
> On a wet road with a slick tyre. On a dry road with a reasonable (not
> skinny) tyre, rear braking alone can be acceptable if body weight is
> shifted back. You cannot shift bodyweight as far back when holding
> onto brake levers as is possible on a track bike. On a road with
> little camber, the rider only needs to hold the stem to effect
> steering when braking, which means his weight can be further back. So
> 'in fact' it appears your assumptions of braking performance are
> clearly ill-founded.
Not that a rider will have the time or presence of mind to do such a
combination of actions in an emergency braking situation.
Norman
You first. & I want to see the video.
Additional qualifications: dry pavement, normal temperatures,
standard diamond frame bicycle with seat at normal riding
height, no phocomeli, offer not valid in all 57 states, some
settling may occur during shipping, take that out of your
goddamned mouth right now, young man, or God help me,
I will cut your penis off and give it to the neighbour's dog.
thirty-six
wrote:
The move should be practiced. Repeat until the skill is learnt so
that it is done automatically in a stressfull situation. It seems a
quicker manouveur than grabbing a tyre when hands are initially on the
bars.
thirty-six
I wrote:
> >This thread is about track bikes (without specific mechaincal braking
> >devices).
On 3 Nov, 13:28, Phil W Lee <phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk> wrote:
>
> It is about the wisdom or otherwise of using such bikes on the road.
> I don't see any reason that the fixie shouldn't be regarded as a back
> brake (as it is in the UK) since it seems to be as effective as one.
>
> If only having a back brake is legal where they are (and it seems to
> be), I don't see that they are doing anything illegal, although it
> seems that some people do. Ultimately, it may need a test case, if
> the legal terminology is imprecise.
> I wouldn't ride anything on the road with no front brake (except in a
> limp-home situation).
> I think our law has it right - 2 brakes, with the fixed transmission
> acting as one if you choose to do it that way.
My thoughts 100% I have ridden without a front brake, I just went
slower. In fact as I got used to not having the brake and my
awareness improved, I rode quicker, but never as agressively as with
two racing rim brakes.
dgk
<invasiv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I ride fixed-gear bicycles year 'round and I have no idea
>how to do what you are proposing. In any reasonable
>gear for road riding (>58in) you cannot lock up the rear
>wheel without shifting your weight forward. Further, on
>every road bicycle I have ridden, I can swing behind the
>saddle with my ass nearly brushing the tire while braking.
>I can't really do that on a fixed gear, at least easily.
If your ass does hit the rear wheel it should contribute braking power
as well. Butt Brakes. Truely skid marks on the underwear.
Pat
Way to go to bring politics into it, bill. You sink to new lows daily.
Pat in TX
Pat
> bicycle riding evoking so much law enforcement as it does now.
>
> Perhaps it indicates cyclists are finally becoming a known
> quantity in the collective mind of the general public.
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
I wish law enforcement would get even more involved with bicyclists breaking
the law, for the vast majority of these are children and teenagers riding
the wrong way in traffic and doing other idiotic things. OTOH, I have seen
many new, adult riders doing the same idiotic things plus riding on
sidewalks and going against red lights. Maybe some law enforcement would
make the general public know that bicycles aren't toys that do not have any
limits on them.
Pat in TX
Bill Baka
I live here and the mayor (black of course) is on a power trip.
He was pushing for the "Strong Mayor" to get even more power for
himself. Think he cares about bicycle?
Get real.
The Tour of California started in Sacramento and made them lots of money
so why doesn't he get the value of bicycles???
It doesn't get him anywhere to look like that kind of politician.
What I was curious about is "Are the fixies also stunt bikes with pegs
on the wheels to stand on?". Those are a red flag to cops since they
indicate to them it must be some good off. And, just to add some fuel,
when I was driving my *RED* Mustang GT I had a motorcycle cop follow me
over 4 (yes 4) freeway exits to other freeways just waiting. The doofus
didn't even figure how obvious he was in my rear view mirror so I did
54MPH for about 10 miles then pulled off on a side road and parked. I
rolled down the window and yelled at him as he rode past "Like my car?".
He gunned it and disappeared.
*Sacramento*.
Kevin Johnson, the black wonder boy mayor, a mini-Obama.
He could stop it but is probably the one who got the bright idea.
That's all.
I brought politics into it because that is what it is.
Bill Baka
thirty-six
UK police are a bit clever, they manage to hide a standard unmarked
saloon in your blind spot. I think they shift position as you move
your head to see clearly in the mirrors. I now tend to check centre
and side without looking forward between them. Upon suspicion of
unwanted attention I use a corner where I get the following vehicle
down to my speed or slower while in second gear, corner late at
2000rpm and feed in the torque at the turn in. Unless their vehicle
is lighter, which it wont be, it is unlikely they can take as good a
line and follow, they lose ground with a botched gear change. It used
to be easy to see an unmarked car, it would be a four door booted
medium sized UK built saloon in dark blue (usually) with spotless
glass and clean wheel trims and no furry dice. The clean wheel trims
etc distinguished it from a salesmans car, as did not having a coat
hanging behind the driver as did the precence of a co-pilot. Road
behaviour also distinguishes from the salesman. They dont use the
regular booted saloon in muted primary colours so much now, so its
primarily road behaviour which is the recognition factor.
Paul M. Hobson
> Pat,
> I live here and the mayor (black of course)
What is that suppose to mean?
--
Paul M. Hobson
.:change the f to ph to reply:.
Simon Lewis
So now it's Blacks as well as Mexicans. Is there no end to your
"dislikes"?
> The Tour of California started in Sacramento and made them lots of money
> so why doesn't he get the value of bicycles???
> It doesn't get him anywhere to look like that kind of politician.
> What I was curious about is "Are the fixies also stunt bikes with pegs
> on the wheels to stand on?". Those are a red flag to cops since they
> indicate to them it must be some good off. And, just to add some fuel,
> when I was driving my *RED* Mustang GT I had a motorcycle cop follow me
> over 4 (yes 4) freeway exits to other freeways just waiting. The doofus
> didn't even figure how obvious he was in my rear view mirror so I did
He didn't take into account our training as an International Man Of
Mystery Bill.
> 54MPH for about 10 miles then pulled off on a side road and parked. I
> rolled down the window and yelled at him as he rode past "Like my car?".
> He gunned it and disappeared.
Sure he did.
> *Sacramento*.
> Kevin Johnson, the black wonder boy mayor, a mini-Obama.
There you again. It's the great thing about low brow red necks : you
just can't help yourself!
> He could stop it but is probably the one who got the bright idea.
>
> That's all.
> I brought politics into it because that is what it is.
>
> Bill Baka
You bought politics into it because you're a big mouthed twit.
Bill Baka
> Bill Baka wrote:
>> Pat,
>> I live here and the mayor (black of course)
>
> What is that suppose to mean?
>
Bill Baka
Bill Baka
decided to go on a mayor power trip. (Black of course) just means that
this seems to be the decade for blacks in politics. I think he is an ex
basketball player and maybe never rode a bicycle in his life. Did Obama?
>
>> The Tour of California started in Sacramento and made them lots of money
>> so why doesn't he get the value of bicycles???
>> It doesn't get him anywhere to look like that kind of politician.
>> What I was curious about is "Are the fixies also stunt bikes with pegs
>> on the wheels to stand on?". Those are a red flag to cops since they
>> indicate to them it must be some good off. And, just to add some fuel,
>> when I was driving my *RED* Mustang GT I had a motorcycle cop follow me
>> over 4 (yes 4) freeway exits to other freeways just waiting. The doofus
>> didn't even figure how obvious he was in my rear view mirror so I did
>
> He didn't take into account our training as an International Man Of
> Mystery Bill.
Are you bored today or just an asshole all the time?
>
>> 54MPH for about 10 miles then pulled off on a side road and parked. I
>> rolled down the window and yelled at him as he rode past "Like my car?".
>> He gunned it and disappeared.
>
> Sure he did.
My wife was with me as a witness but I won't pull her into your
silliness. I didn't do 200MPH to lose him, just drove around until he
became so obvious I couldn't stand it. I was going to a Fry's
Electronics, slowly.
>
>> *Sacramento*.
>> Kevin Johnson, the black wonder boy mayor, a mini-Obama.
>
> There you again. It's the great thing about low brow red necks : you
> just can't help yourself!
You are a flaming assed idiot if you think I am in any 0.000% red neck.
I was raised and schooled (mostly) in Illinois, college was in
California in Silicon Valley. I just don't tolerate stupid people.
>
>> He could stop it but is probably the one who got the bright idea.
>>
>> That's all.
>> I brought politics into it because that is what it is.
>>
>> Bill Baka
>
> You bought politics into it because you're a big mouthed twit.
>
>
Suuuure.
Break a leg. (not figuratively speaking).
Bill Baka
Simon Lewis
Yes. One black president. Poor Bill.
> basketball player and maybe never rode a bicycle in his life. Did
> Obama?
I bet he stole a few though eh Bill?
>
>>
>>> The Tour of California started in Sacramento and made them lots of money
>>> so why doesn't he get the value of bicycles???
>>> It doesn't get him anywhere to look like that kind of politician.
>>> What I was curious about is "Are the fixies also stunt bikes with pegs
>>> on the wheels to stand on?". Those are a red flag to cops since they
>>> indicate to them it must be some good off. And, just to add some fuel,
>>> when I was driving my *RED* Mustang GT I had a motorcycle cop follow me
>>> over 4 (yes 4) freeway exits to other freeways just waiting. The doofus
>>> didn't even figure how obvious he was in my rear view mirror so I did
>>
>> He didn't take into account our training as an International Man Of
>> Mystery Bill.
>
> Are you bored today or just an asshole all the time?
You were the one explaining how you tracked him .... you are a mighty
man Bill.
>>
>>> 54MPH for about 10 miles then pulled off on a side road and parked. I
>>> rolled down the window and yelled at him as he rode past "Like my car?".
>>> He gunned it and disappeared.
>>
>> Sure he did.
>
> My wife was with me as a witness but I won't pull her into your
> silliness. I didn't do 200MPH to lose him, just drove around until he
You just did.
> became so obvious I couldn't stand it. I was going to a Fry's
> Electronics, slowly.
How is the time machine coming along Bill?
>>
>>> *Sacramento*.
>>> Kevin Johnson, the black wonder boy mayor, a mini-Obama.
>>
>> There you again. It's the great thing about low brow red necks : you
>> just can't help yourself!
>
> You are a flaming assed idiot if you think I am in any 0.000% red neck.
> I was raised and schooled (mostly) in Illinois, college was in
> California in Silicon Valley. I just don't tolerate stupid people.
You are too stupid to recognise stupidity.
>>
>>> He could stop it but is probably the one who got the bright idea.
>>>
>>> That's all.
>>> I brought politics into it because that is what it is.
>>>
>>> Bill Baka
>>
>> You bought politics into it because you're a big mouthed twit.
>>
>>
> Suuuure.
> Break a leg. (not figuratively speaking).
> Bill Baka
In years of trawling the web and usenet I believe this group has
the ultimate triumvirate : "Rednecked Racist and international superstar"
Bill Baka, "Big headed boring racist" Ed Dolan, and "I invented The
World" Andre Jute.
Quite a gathering.
Bill Baka
> Bill Baka <bb...@comcast.net> writes:
>> Dislikes? I dislike a mayor who was OK until Obama got elected and then
>> decided to go on a mayor power trip. (Black of course) just means that
>> this seems to be the decade for blacks in politics. I think he is an
>> ex
>
> Yes. One black president. Poor Bill.
It isn't racial, it just seems to be that blacks are a fad right now.
How does being an ex-basketball player qualify him for politics???
Obama is flailing, again, not from being black, but lack of experience
and the mess he inherited. This was about fixies in Sacramento and I
just made a comment that the mayor could care less about local cyclists
unless they have an event which raises money.
*Simple enough?*
>
>> basketball player and maybe never rode a bicycle in his life. Did
>> Obama?
>
> I bet he stole a few though eh Bill?
Not likely since he is too tall.
>
>>>> The Tour of California started in Sacramento and made them lots of money
>>>> so why doesn't he get the value of bicycles???
>>>> It doesn't get him anywhere to look like that kind of politician.
>>>> What I was curious about is "Are the fixies also stunt bikes with pegs
>>>> on the wheels to stand on?". Those are a red flag to cops since they
>>>> indicate to them it must be some good off. And, just to add some fuel,
>>>> when I was driving my *RED* Mustang GT I had a motorcycle cop follow me
>>>> over 4 (yes 4) freeway exits to other freeways just waiting. The doofus
>>>> didn't even figure how obvious he was in my rear view mirror so I did
>>> He didn't take into account our training as an International Man Of
>>> Mystery Bill.
>> Are you bored today or just an asshole all the time?
>
> You were the one explaining how you tracked him .... you are a mighty
> man Bill.
WTF are you hallucinating about?
>
>>>> 54MPH for about 10 miles then pulled off on a side road and parked. I
>>>> rolled down the window and yelled at him as he rode past "Like my car?".
>>>> He gunned it and disappeared.
>>> Sure he did.
>> My wife was with me as a witness but I won't pull her into your
>> silliness. I didn't do 200MPH to lose him, just drove around until he
>
> You just did.
Did what, moron?
>
>> became so obvious I couldn't stand it. I was going to a Fry's
>> Electronics, slowly.
>
> How is the time machine coming along Bill?
Repeat, are you hallucinating about?
>
>>>> *Sacramento*.
>>>> Kevin Johnson, the black wonder boy mayor, a mini-Obama.
>>> There you again. It's the great thing about low brow red necks : you
>>> just can't help yourself!
>> You are a flaming assed idiot if you think I am in any 0.000% red neck.
>> I was raised and schooled (mostly) in Illinois, college was in
>> California in Silicon Valley. I just don't tolerate stupid people.
>
> You are too stupid to recognise stupidity.
I *do* recognize you, and you can't even spell recognize properly.
Who's stupid?
>
>>>> He could stop it but is probably the one who got the bright idea.
>>>>
>>>> That's all.
>>>> I brought politics into it because that is what it is.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Baka
>>> You bought politics into it because you're a big mouthed twit.
>>>
>>>
>> Suuuure.
>> Break a leg. (not figuratively speaking).
>> Bill Baka
>
> In years of trawling the web and usenet I believe this group has
> the ultimate triumvirate : "Rednecked Racist and international superstar"
> Bill Baka, "Big headed boring racist" Ed Dolan, and "I invented The
> World" Andre Jute.
>
> Quite a gathering.
>
>
Add to that this group has you, one of a handful of assholes who just
waste my time, bandwidth (globally), and that of the group. The fact
that I actually did every single thing I ever said except the tricycle
speed makes me not a liar or troll. The fact that everyone thinks I am
BS'ing them just makes me feel sorry for all the folks who never
actually lived on the edge in their youth.
You have missed sooooo much.
Bill Baka
Dan C
<SNIP>
> Add to that this group has you, one of a handful of assholes who just
> waste my time, bandwidth (globally), and that of the group. The fact
> that I actually did every single thing I ever said except the tricycle
> speed makes me not a liar or troll. The fact that everyone thinks I am
> BS'ing them just makes me feel sorry for all the folks who never
> actually lived on the edge in their youth. You have missed sooooo much.
>
> Bill Baka
... And here we go again, ladies and gentlemen. Looks like
Bill_the_Blowhard is back for another round of tall tales.
Bullshit, all of it.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he garotted another passing Liberal.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Paul M. Hobson
Huh? That doesn't make any sense. I would consider only fraction of
white politicians to be George W. Bush knock-offs.
RobertH
> I wish law enforcement would get even more involved with bicyclists breaking
> the law,...
I wish they would just change the law already to Idaho stop, focus on
ticketing riders who actually violate right-of-way.
RobertH
wrote:
> The best use for rear wheel braking in an emergency or maximum effort
> stop is to judge when the rear wheel is about to lift, at which point
> it will start sliding.
This is a strange myth that is not only repeated on these forums but
actually taught in LAB classes and whatnot. It's patently ridonkulous
for several reasons. There is a great deal of leeway between the point
the rear starts to slide and the point it comes off the ground. And
there is a great deal of leeway between the point it comes off the
ground and the point the rider goes over the bars. In any case, you
certainly don't need to monitor the rear tire's skidding or not to
determine if the wheel is about to come off the ground, it's an
obvious sensation among cycling-related sensations. If you can't feel
the bike about to come off the ground then I kind of doubt you will be
able to feel your rear tire start to skid, which could be a more
subtle sensation. Nor could you keep tabs on such a thing as your rear
tire's degree of skidding in a panic stop situation anyway. The whole
thing will happen way too fast for this kind of conscious accounting.
In the real world, maximum controlled stop involves some rear tire
skid every time and the rear wheel will probably come off the ground
at least a little bit. Anybody who thinks they can stop as quickly in
a controlled fashion using the front brake alone need only perform a
simple physical experiment to see that the shortest controlled stops
involve both brakes and thus some rear tire skid as an inevitable by-
product. The max stop is a whole-body maneuver with an exaggerated and
coordinated body movement as a critical component, it is not about
sitting and squeezing levers while monitoring for rear tire skid.
landotter
> Bill Baka wrote:
> > Paul M. Hobson wrote:
> >> Bill Baka wrote:
> >>> Pat,
> >>> I live here and the mayor (black of course)
>
> >> What is that suppose to mean?
>
> > He's an Obama knock-off.
> > Bill Baka
>
> Huh? That doesn't make any sense. I would consider only fraction of
> white politicians to be George W. Bush knock-offs.
That's because they aren't cloned like black people, who just look
alike, dammit. Give Baka credit--he can probably tell one from a
chinaman and a raghead--though his brainz might lock up if you
presented him with a white Sikh.
Simon Lewis
hahahaha! Good one. Stinking up a white man's air too! Baka is a racist
prick.
Bill Baka
>
> hahahaha! Good one. Stinking up a white man's air too! Baka is a racist
> prick.
>
>
>
Bill Baka
Paul M. Hobson
> Simon Lewis wrote:
>>
>> hahahaha! Good one. Stinking up a white man's air too! Baka is a racist
>> prick.
Bill Baka wrote:
> Far better than being an uninformed clod.
> Bill Baka
Being old is no excuse for being stupid, Bill.
Simon Lewis
In what way am I uninformed?
Oh and nice snipping. And thanks for admitting you're a racist arse. A
moron like you can only hide behind bullshit before your true colours
can be seen by all for a short while.
landotter
> > Simon Lewis wrote:
>
> >> hahahaha! Good one. Stinking up a white man's air too! Baka is a racist
> >> prick.
> Bill Baka wrote:
> > Far better than being an uninformed clod.
> > Bill Baka
>
> Being old is no excuse for being stupid, Bill.
I disagree. It can be a fantastic excuse for a lot of things!
"These waffles are burnt!"
"Fuck off, I'm oooold!"
Bill Baka
>
>> Simon Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>> hahahaha! Good one. Stinking up a white man's air too! Baka is a racist
>>> prick.
>
> Bill Baka wrote:
>> Far better than being an uninformed clod.
>> Bill Baka
>
> Being old is no excuse for being stupid, Bill.
Yup! What's your excuse for being stooopid?
Fixies, *as I have seen them* seem to be in favor of the stunt crowd
because they can pedal backwards for balance. Can't do that with a
coaster or hand brake. Watch some of the videos on youtube and you will
see what I mean. I don't actually live in Sacramento but I think part of
this is to stop the bicycle stunting and the accompanying broken bones
for beginners.
Bill Baka (Racist against whatever color Simon is)
Dan C
> Paul M. Hobson wrote:
>>
>>> Simon Lewis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hahahaha! Good one. Stinking up a white man's air too! Baka is a
>>>> racist prick.
>>
>> Bill Baka wrote:
>>> Far better than being an uninformed clod. Bill Baka
>>
>> Being old is no excuse for being stupid, Bill.
>
> Yup! What's your excuse for being stooopid? <SNIP>
Bill! You're back (again)! Thought you might have gotten run over by a
semi truck, while racing them downhill on your bike at 55+mph.
No such luck, I guess.
thirty-six
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:18:58 -0800, Bill Baka wrote:
> > Paul M. Hobson wrote:
>
> >>> Simon Lewis wrote:
>
> >>>> hahahaha! Good one. Stinking up a white man's air too! Baka is a
> >>>> racist prick.
>
> >> Bill Baka wrote:
> >>> Far better than being an uninformed clod. Bill Baka
>
> >> Being old is no excuse for being stupid, Bill.
>
> > Yup! What's your excuse for being stooopid? <SNIP>
>
> Bill! You're back (again)! Thought you might have gotten run over by a
> semi truck, while racing them downhill on your bike at 55+mph.
>
> No such luck, I guess.
>
No fun here, articulated lorries are legallty limited to 40mph
although that doesnt stop them doing 50.. Just enough to make a pass
a little dangerous but not a pounding heart jobbie. Truck drivers
appear to be generally knowledgable about cyclists capabilities but
car drivers, not. They make for much more fun.
Bill Sornson
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:18:58 -0800, Bill Baka wrote:
>> What's your excuse for being stooopid? <SNIP>
> Bill! You're back (again)! Thought you might have gotten run over
> by a semi truck, while racing them downhill on your bike at 55+mph.
> No such luck, I guess.
Point of order, yer honor. It was a TRIKE.
Bill "and little Billy Baka was 5 LOL " S.
Bill Baka
You do know it is Dan C pulling me in here. I can tolerate 1 large truck
at a time, maybe once a minute, but 5 or 6 in a row at 65 to 70 is a bit
much. Besides, I have much more respect for UK drivers than Americans.
I do believe you have to be able to fix your own flat and a few other
things that most Americans will just call On-star or some other service
to do it for them.
My point here, American drivers are not as good as UK/Eu drivers.
Bill Baka
Dan C
How do you know that, Bill? How much cycling have you done on the roads
of the UK or Eu?
Is it possible that you were just talking out of your ass again?
thirty-six
Practical driving examination before being permitted to drive without
qualified company. My test over twenty years ago included tight old
city roads, steep hills, high speed roads single and dual
carriageway. We have a guide to road use called the highway code,
when people apply the methods in this guide precisely there is rarely
a problem. Although we are tested to do an emergency stop from about
25 to 30mph, I would liketo see this applied from higher speeds or
er..CBA continuing.. We are pretty well tested for driving, but
there are perhaps some ommisions.
Bill Baka
That was basically my point, Americans are granted licenses for passing
only very rudimentary tests. Drive around the block, back up, move back
into traffic and make left turn, head back to get license. The latest
batch of ads for cars makes me gag. If people continue the trend towards
more electronic goodies in a car, the accident rate will go up due to
people fiddling with their toys. I mean, really, who is so lame they
will look more at their navigation toys than the actual road?
Answer; Lots of people.
Bill Baka
thirty-six
I still get there quicker by sense of smell.
Bill Baka
Am I the only one who actually passed the Boy Scout tests???
At night I can use the stars since Polaris is so obvious.
With clouds I can still tell where the moon is.
Daytime is too easy. If it's 3:00 P.M. and the sun is over there then we
are here and need to go there.
The only way I can get lost is on an overcast *and* moonless night.
I think those in dash systems are nice toys but will begin to be the
causes of way too many crashes or flattened bicycle riders.
Safety first, tech toys last.
Bill Baka