Tele ski comments wanted
Steve LaSala
In the Fall a young man's fancy turns to...skiing; and I'm no
exception. I'm looking for a set of good tele skis and would value all of your
opinions recommendations, and warnings.
Where I'm coming from is that I have an old pair of E99's, a little
to long for me, that I've been bashing around for a while now. They are
fitted with old-style <C> cables, and are great for backcountry touring, but I
find they skip and chatter rather badly on the groomed ice-I-mean-hardpack-I-
-mean-packedpowder that develops on the local lift-served slopes.
I'll certainly keep the above for rock skis and loaded touring, but
I'm thinking of getting something better suited to turning, whether on
lift-served or foot-served slopes. I'm neither super-aggressive nor
super-talented about my skiing. Just gliding down in graceful arcs through
beautiful scenery is what I'm looking for. I want a ski on the edge of
backcountry-ness, so I can practice at local areas and still take them to
Tuckerman's Ravine. The contestants, so far, are:
Tua Toute Neige - looks great, and I like a wood core - This looks like a
great crossover ski. Is there anything drastically wrong with it
that I should know?
Tua Expresso - basically like the 'Neige but stiffer and more biased toward
groomed slopes - I wouldn't have considered it, but I can get a good
deal on last year's model. (Probably not a good reason, I know).
Tua Valmonte - a little narrower and lighter than the 'Neige for more of
a touring orientation - The description of 1 1/2 camber with a slight
wax pocket sounds weird. I'm worried that the design tries to do
everything at once and may end up doing nothing well. Comments?
Karhu XCD - more of a tourer, but highly regarded - I don't like the foam
core because of lessened springiness and durability, but it does
cut weight.
Have I left out any of your favorites? (Sorry for you fans of Kazama's, but
I just can't abide that color!)
I've also been getting worried about my previously-twisted knees
and thinking about outfitting the new boards with Riva's and Voile release
plates. There's already a thread along these lines in rec.skiing, but feel
free to comment here as well.
Thanks,
- Steve
Ray Snead
> I'm looking for a set of good tele skis and would value all of your opinions
> recommendations, and warnings.
Any list like this should certainly include the Fischer GTS... This is a great
powder ski, but well-rounded enough for most non-glare ice area fare. They are
wide, with lots of sidecut and a strictly alpine camber. Not for touring, but
that's not what you are after.
Mine are set up with <C> (<BD>??) Rivas. I find these to be outstanding-- all
the good features of the old <C> cables without the deficiencies.
Ray Snead
Boulder, Colorado
Mark Lord
>Tua Toute Neige - looks great, and I like a wood core - This looks like a
> great crossover ski. Is there anything drastically wrong with it
> that I should know?
This has all of the makings of a great and expensive ski.
>Karhu XCD - more of a tourer, but highly regarded - I don't like the foam
> core because of lessened springiness and durability, but it does
> cut weight.
Double camber.. not the best for lift-area/Tuckerman.
>Have I left out any of your favorites?
Being in Canada, I'm biased. My shopping is done by mail order from
Mountain Equipment Coop, the place with the best prices on climbing gear
*anywhere* in North America (except for the occaisional fire sale somewhere).
For cheap skis that will do the trick,
go for the "Club Fat TourLites".. around CAN$150 = US$125-130
These skis are very affordable, and can make even the most casual beginner
carve turns like a pro in Tuckerman Ravine.
--
___Mark S. Lord__________________________________________
| ..uunet!bnrgate!mlord%bmerh724 | Climb Free Or Die (NH) |
| ML...@BNR.CA Ottawa, Ontario | Personal views only. |
|________________________________|________________________|
Mark Lord
>>Karhu XCD - more of a tourer, but highly regarded - I don't like the foam
>
Ooops. My mistake. XCD is SINGLE camber, GT is double camber.
Steve Susswein
>In article <46...@bwdls58.UUCP> ml...@bwdls58.bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
>>>Karhu XCD - more of a tourer, but highly regarded - I don't like the foam
>>
>>Double camber.. not the best for lift-area/Tuckerman.
>
>Ooops. My mistake. XCD is SINGLE camber, GT is double camber.
>--
The XCd-GT is double camber, the old (and no longer made) XCD-Comp was single
camber. The XCD-Comp has been replaced by the Supreme and Extreme.
Steve
Svein-Ivar Lillehaug
>Karhu XCD - more of a tourer, but highly regarded - I don't like the foam
> core because of lessened springiness and durability, but it does
> cut weight.
The XCD GT is the perfect combination for both touring and classical
Telemark. Unfortunately they don't sell Karhu in Norway, which means
that I will have to go to Sweden or Finland to get a new pair. My old
ones won't manage trough another winter. TUA might be good for either
touring or Telemark down hill, but I haven't managed to find a good
TUA ski for the combination. And buying two pairs of TUA, -that's
expensive.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Svein-Ivar Lillehaug ~ sve...@forit.uit.no ~
~ TF/FBT, Tromsoe NORWAY ~ svein-ivar...@fbt.tf.tele.no ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ TROMSOE, city of the midnight fun -from the book "Let's go Europe" ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John E. Hartman
The current (November) Backpacker magazine has tests and reviews of
about 12 models of backcountry and telemark skis, including Karhu,
<C>-Tua etc.
Cross Country Skier and the other ski mags will surely have some
articles too.
---
A friend in Jackson Hole just called after skiing in knee-deep powder.
Cheers - Think Snow,
John Hartman
Artificial Intelligence Laboratory 512-471-9586 (office-TAY 5.144)
Dept. of Computer Sciences -471-8885 (fax)
TAY 2.124 -472-3606 (home)
The University of Texas at Austin har...@cs.utexas.edu (Internet)
Austin, TX 78712-1188 {harvard,gatech,uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!hartman
Hal Lillywhite
>Hi,
>I am going trout fishing on Fri.
>I havn't cleaned a fish since childhood.
>I need tips on how to clean and prepare them for
>cooking on an open fire. Any help will be appreciated.
Well, here's a method which is perhaps a bit unusual but suits my
taste:
1. Cut off head and tail.
2. Cut down the back, opening the fish by using the boneless
belly as a hinge. Remove all that stuff inside.
3. Nail or tack the spread-out fish to a board, skin side out.
4. Lean the board over a nice bed of coals and cook slowly for
about an hour. Be careful not to get too close to the coals or the
fish will burn. If you're really ambitious you can take the fish
off the board and turn it over half way through the cooking
process.
5. Carefully pull the nails or tacks and remove the fish.
6. Throw the fish in the fire and eat the board. :-)
(Sorry, I couldn't resist. I don't care for fish.)
The Shark
>Hi,
>I am going trout fishing on Fri.
>I havn't cleaned a fish since childhood.
>I need tips on how to clean and prepare them for
>cooking on an open fire. Any help will be appreciated.
>
Well,
You lay the fish on its back with two snowballs on either side to hold
it steady then you do a snap (jump) turn on it slicing it open cleanly with the
outside edge of your downhill ski. At this time you wrap your favored hand
in your hankerchief and scoop out the entrails. These are saved to be
dropped into the chili pot at the mid-chalet restaurant just prior to the big
lunch crowd or saved to clear a space in the restaurant for you and your
friends. You then pull out your flask and wash the insides and
store the fish in your fannypack to throw at the next asshole who cuts
you off or you attempt to pay for tomorrows lift ticket with it.
This is basic stuff, you would assume that everybody already knows.
Rob Bradlee
>I am going trout fishing on Fri.
>I havn't cleaned a fish since childhood.
>I need tips on how to clean and prepare them for
>cooking on an open fire. Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Mary
Mary,
You've come to the right newsgroup (rec.skiing) for advice. First, you're
going to need a complete fish-tuning kit. Use the scraper to remove
the scales and any wax left from last season. Fill in any gouges with
a hot ptex gun. Heat an iron on your campfire, and iron in a
good layer of medium tempature wax. Scrape again. Now thoroughly clean
the entire length, top and bottom, of the fish with wax remover.
Throw onto the fire while still coated with wax remover. After the
flames dies down should have a delicious Blackened Trout Fish suitable
for competition in any USSA sanctioned race. Remember, no logos on your
camping gear with lettering over two inches in height!
--
Rob Bradlee w:(508)-658-5600 X5153 h:(617)-944-5595
AGFA Compugraphic Division. ...!{decvax,samsung}!cg-atla!bradlee
200 Ballardvale St. bra...@cg-atla.agfa.com
Wilmington, Mass. 01887 The Nordic Way: Ski till it hurts!
Bill Harris
enjoyable ways to prepare an evening meal. Bring
these items with you:
o salt
o pepper
o oil
o pocket knife
Take the pocket knife and scrape the fish lightly
to remove some of the slime so as to make the fish
easier to handle. Holding it bottom side up, insert
the blade into the rear vent and make a cut almost
to the gills. Below the lower lip there are two
lines running parallel to each other. Slip the blade
into one of these lines and out the other and cut
forward. Pinch with thumb and forefinger(inserted
into fish's mouth) with one hand. Grab the cut you just
made with the other and pull downward hard enough to
seperate the bottom lower jaw, lower fins and entrails
from the rest of the fish. The mouth of the fish must
be left intact!
Now coat the fish all over with oil and season to taste with
salt and pepper. Make a hot dog stick from a fairly stout
branch and strip the bark from the last ten inches or so.
Toast the end in the fire to clean it.
Now insert the pointed end of the stick into the fish's mouth
and run the point into the meat below the tail. Hang out over
the fire until meat turns white. Have a plate handy and when
the fish is soft enough to fall off the stick, catch it in the
plate. Voila!
Uncork some white wine and get down to it.........
OOOOOOPPPPPSSSSS!!!!! Forgot to tell you to scrape the bloody
area along the backbone inside before you oil and season.
P.S. For all the fire-ring haters out there.... Do this in an
established camping area with prepared fire pits. I would never
ever be caught doing something as crude and senseless as building
a fire alongside a stream, on a sandy bank, with dead wood, in a
shallow depression, with no rocks for a fire-ring which might sit
there as irrefutable proof that someone had enjoyed themselves in
that very spot perhaps even moments before the tight-asses appeared.
Light pack,
Good track!
Bill Harris
Kevin Morgan
Hi,
I am going trout fishing on Fri.
I havn't cleaned a fish since childhood.
I need tips on how to clean and prepare them for
cooking on an open fire. Any help will be appreciated.
Mary
----------
Kill and eat the fish AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AFTER CATCHING.
Don't let the fish die and sit around for the whole day before
cleaning and eating.
Tell the fish you're sorry and you'll promise to give your body
back to nature to feed others like it someday.
(Squemish stop reading here.)
To kill a live fish: QUICKLY push the point of a knife into the
back of the head, through the brain area.
Cut off the head, by cutting from just behind (tail side) of the
front dorsals, down toward the backbone.
Slice open the belly in a straight line all the way to the end of
the body cavity.
Pull out the guts. THROW THEM IN THE BUSHES OR BURY, DO NOT THROW
THEM IN A STREAM OR LAKE.
Rinse out the remaining scum/blood/etc as well as you can; you pretty
much need to use your fingers tips for this.
Slice with the point of your sharp knive along the backbone from the
inside of the body cavity, to loosen up the blood right along the
backbone. I.e., run the tip of your know along the backbone where
there is still blood to free it up, then rinse it out.
Wrap the fish in tin foil, completely, along with a little fresh
wild onion if you can find it.
Bury in red hot coals, rotate after five minutes, cook for a total
of about 10 minutes.
Remove and test for doneness. The flesh should be opaque all the way
through, no areas still "raw" looking.
If the fish is properly cooked, you can usually grab the backbone
at the head side, and by lifting gently and using your knife or
fork, peel the backbone right away from half the fish. Flop over
and do this on the other side, and you have two fairly bone
free filets ready to eat. All you need to watch out for is dorsal
fin bones.
Consume. Don't forget to nibble on the tail, it tastes real good,
like a potato chip.
There is nothing in the world (imo) better than native fresh caught
trout, cooked immediately after catching, with fresh wild onions.
Good luck catching 'em.
-kevin
Sylvia Budak
Boy, I think you may be making a mistake by ruling out the Kazamas. I
have a pair of Karhu XCD-GTs and a pair of Kazama Mountain Softs. I LOVE my
Kazamas! To me there is no comparison between how much better the Kazamas
turn than the Karhus. I know they don't make the Mountain Softs any more and
yes, that color is real disturbing. I'm hoping my silver-grey mountain softs
last long enough for them to change the color of the Outbacks. The Mountain
softs are great in powder and they don't do badly at the down-hill areas either.
A word about single camber skiis in the backcountry -- they are GREAT for
climbing. You don't have the problem of the middle part of the ski not making
contact with the snow when you need it most. With single camber skiis it
doesn't take much force to flatten them and have your wax do its job. My
Mountain Softs do pretty well at kicking and gliding too.
I've heard that you can't put front throw cable bindings on Karhus because
the mounting plate doesn't extend far forward enough. A problem I've had with
my XCD-GTs is that they tend to get railed really fast. It only took a few
times skiing on them to get that way. I've used my Kazamas for one and a half
years without them deviating much from flat bottoms. All in all, I much prefer
the Kazamas to the Karhus. I think you might want to give Kazamas another look,
if not this year maybe some other year.
Sylvia
Margaret Scott
>>Hi,
>>I am going trout fishing on Fri.
>>cooking on an open fire. Any help will be appreciated.
>
>back of the head, through the brain area.
>Pull out the guts. THROW THEM IN THE BUSHES OR BURY, DO NOT THROW
>THEM IN A STREAM OR LAKE.
>
on the method of gut dispersal you've recommended. Although not
legal, strictly speaking, wardens we've talked to are adamant that
fish guts should NOT be left around where bears, etc will find
them. They recommend that when no-one is looking, they be tossed
back into the lake and consumed by other trout. As I said, this
is not legal in Canadian Parks (Waterton, anyhow), but is certainly
safer than teaching the wildlife to associate people smells with
those yummy fish guts. If not back in the lake...bury them DEEP.
>There is nothing in the world (imo) better than native fresh caught
>trout, cooked immediately after catching, with fresh wild onions.
Steve Susswein
>
> I've heard that you can't put front throw cable bindings on Karhus because
>the mounting plate doesn't extend far forward enough. A problem I've had with
I've had front throw cable bindings mounted on 2 different pairs of
Karhu XCD-GT's with no problems whatsoever.
Steve
MARLATT STUART WARREN
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Trout fishing
Summary:
Expires:
References: <36...@male.EBay.Sun.COM> <1091...@hpcuhd.HP.COM>
Sender:
Reply-To: mar...@spot.Colorado.EDU (MARLATT STUART WARREN)
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Keywords:
>/ hpcuhd:rec.backcountry / gi...@slavery.EBay.Sun.COM (Mary Allen) / 8:41 am Oct 24, 1990 /
>Hi,
>I am going trout fishing on Fri.
>I havn't cleaned a fish since childhood.
>I need tips on how to clean and prepare them for
>cooking on an open fire. Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Mary
>----------
>
Fire? Trout sashemi is actually quite good. Clean fish as others have
described (I tend to prefer the head-on method). Skin. Eat. This
is the traditional Japanese method of fish preparation. Important-
eat it fresh. Sashemi with old fish is bad news.
swm
john reece
(MARLATT STUART WARREN) writes:
> Fire? Trout sashemi is actually quite good. Clean fish as others have
> described (I tend to prefer the head-on method). Skin. Eat. This
> is the traditional Japanese method of fish preparation. Important-
> eat it fresh. Sashemi with old fish is bad news.
Whoa!!!! It was always my understanding that fresh-water fish were
much, much more prone than salt-water fish to nasty parasites. Which
is why you don't find fresh-water fish in sushi bars.
John Reece
Not an Intel spokesman
jre...@yoyodyne.intel.com
Craig Steury
> Tua Toute Neige - looks great, and I like a wood core - This looks like a
> great crossover ski. Is there anything drastically wrong with it
> that I should know?
>
> Tua Expresso - basically like the 'Neige but stiffer and more biased toward
> groomed slopes - I wouldn't have considered it, but I can get a good
> deal on last year's model. (Probably not a good reason, I know).
The Toute Neige has been very popular in these parts (Wasatch Mts) as
an easy-to-turn all-around good touring/powder ski. I believe you
should consider the Tua tele Sauvage (sp?) also. It turns quickly,
holds an edge without chattering on hardpack, and is ok in
powder also. I use them for powder-dump resort days at Alta for conditions
transitioning from those first sweet unpacked runs (altogether too
short) to the packed conditions prevailing by noon. My backcountry
powder skiis (Tua Sulphur) are totally inadequate for resort skiing
because they are too wide and too soft. My point is that you should
consider where you will be skiing most of the time if you are only to
buy one pair of skiis, and if it is back east, or on spring
conditions, a slightly stiffer ski than the Toute Neige may be in order.
Craig Steury
> Tua Toute Neige - looks great, and I like a wood core - This looks like a
> great crossover ski. Is there anything drastically wrong with it
> that I should know?
>
> Tua Expresso - basically like the 'Neige but stiffer and more biased toward
> groomed slopes - I wouldn't have considered it, but I can get a good
> deal on last year's model. (Probably not a good reason, I know).
(Sorry if this got posted twice ... I started wildly jabbing at keys
while thinking about skiing!)
The Toute Neige has been very popular in these parts (Wasatch Mts) as
an easy-to-turn all-around good touring/powder ski. I believe you
should consider the Tua tele Sauvage (sp?) also. It turns quickly,
holds an edge without chattering on hardpack, and is ok in
powder also. I use them for powder-dump resort days at Alta for conditions
transitioning from those first sweet unpacked runs (altogether too
short) to the packed conditions prevailing by noon. My backcountry
powder skiis (Tua Sulphur) are totally inadequate for resort skiing
because they are too wide and too soft. My point is that you should
consider where you will be skiing most of the time if you are only to
buy one pair of skiis, and if it is back east, or on spring
conditions, a slightly stiffer ski than the Toute Neige may be in order.
Craig Steury
Evans & Sutherland
(801) 582-5847
Salt Lake City, UT 84108
and there are no truths outside the gates of Eden
writes:
|> In article <28...@boulder.Colorado.EDU>, mar...@boulder.Colorado.EDU
|> (MARLATT STUART WARREN) writes:
|>
|> > Fire? Trout sashemi is actually quite good. Clean fish as others have
|> > described (I tend to prefer the head-on method). Skin. Eat. This
|> > is the traditional Japanese method of fish preparation. Important-
|> > eat it fresh. Sashemi with old fish is bad news.
|>
|> Whoa!!!! It was always my understanding that fresh-water fish were
|> much, much more prone than salt-water fish to nasty parasites. Which
|> is why you don't find fresh-water fish in sushi bars.
|>
|> John Reece
|> Not an Intel spokesman
|> jre...@yoyodyne.intel.com
|>
This is entirely true. You must be an expert to serve fresh-water fish as
sashimi. I've heard the parasites are easily visible with a large magnifying
glass; it might be edifying to be a bit empirical as far as looking before you
eat...
John Ritz
ri...@ldyday.enet.dec.com
ri...@smaug.enet.dec.com
"It's freedom of speech...as long as you don't say too much."
Neville Bros.
Mike D. McNamee
/ hpcuhd:rec.backcountry / gi...@slavery.EBay.Sun.COM (Mary Allen) / 8:41 am Oct 24, 1990 /
>Hi,
>I am going trout fishing on Fri.
>I havn't cleaned a fish since childhood.
>I need tips on how to clean and prepare them for
>cooking on an open fire. Any help will be appreciated.
> Mary
>----------
>To kill a live fish: QUICKLY push the point of a knife into the
>back of the head, through the brain area.
A slightly easier method is to just hold the squirming fish firmly and
whack it on the top of the head with something like the handle of a fillet
knife. Make sure you have the knife in a scabbard, of course. The fish will
fibrillate for a second, then it's deader than a doornail. The momentary
fibrillation is your cue that you've hit the right spot.
Sounds pretty gross, huh????
As a humorous aside, the first time I ever witnessed this technique was
when fishing with a friend. As he applied the necessary whack to each fish
he had caught, he muttered something like "Naughty fish!!".
Mike McNamee
Hewlett-Packard
Spokane Division R&D Lab
mcnamee@hpspkla
d_ri...@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au
understanding that salmonids (sp?), that group of fish including trout and
salmon, do not generally carry parasites that are attracted to vertebrates
like ourselves. This is why salmon is frequently eaten raw, such as in the
form of Gravid Lox, even in our own culture. I had also heard that in
Japan, many freshwater fish ARE served as sashimi. The results? Totally
inconclusive. A parasitologist expressed shock/dismay/fear-and-trembling
at the idea of eating ANY raw flesh (so much for steak tartare or lamb
kibbeh); felt that sashimi should be banned; but did admit that he knew of
no data that would clearly support his position. A fish-person (I'm not
going to even attempt to spell icth.... first thing in the morning) claimed
that salmonids generally were free of the most common types of parasites
that bug people, wouldn't think twice about making Gravid Lox with land-
locked salmon, and admitted the worst part of living inland was not having
a good Japanese sushi bar in the area. But again she could provide no data
supporting her position. It seems that data may well simply not be
readily available. Can somebody think of an appropriate place to cross-post
this message? Anybody hooked up <sorry no pun intended> to a medical bbs?
Incidently, to tie this to the Fussy Eater and Dangerous Foods threads: had
a dear friend, the epitome of the fussy eater, who a few years ago started
losing weight. This can be a frightening experience, especially if you're
a member of certain sub-cultures. Anyhoo, he quickly got to the Clinic,
and the feared possibility was eliminated. But weight loss continued.
Needless to say, it was frustrating. Several months later he passed part
of a tape worm. This was taken to the MD, who after much ado and
shipping around of the piece of critter, finally got it identified. He
asked my friend when had he been to India. He never had been out of the US
Somehow or another, he had picked up this worm, which clinically did not
exist in North America as a human parasite and for which there was no
available medication. I recall the funny part of the whole thing was that
the doctor had to medicate him (under the table, so to speak) with tablets
obtained from the Vetinary College!
Dave
Dan Liddell
>
> A slightly easier method is to just hold the squirming fish firmly and
> Sounds pretty gross, huh????
I think I know a grosser one. Slide your thumb into the gills, and
apply pressure until the spine snaps. No tools, and it has the air of
loving kindness.
--
Dan Liddell UUCP decwrl!teda!dll TELEPHONE 4089805222 USA
curb your dogma. The opinions and views expressed are Dan's.
Kate M. Gregory
>In article <1114...@hpspkla.spk.hp.com> mcn...@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Mike D. McNamee) writes:
>>>back of the head, through the brain area.
>>
>> A slightly easier method is to just hold the squirming fish firmly and
>>whack it on the top of the head with something like the handle of a fillet
>
>I also recommend the latter method. Much less chance of cutting one's self
>while waving a sharp knife around a thrashing fish.
>
>It is easy to kill a trout by whacking it with a knife handle (fishing pliers,
>etc.). However, when I first tried this on an 18" northern pike, the fish did
>not seem to notice. Usually it took six or eight sharp blows with the pliers
>to subdue them. The only time I was able to kill a pike in one blow was at a
>trash strewn portage where someone had left the driveshaft of an outboard
>motor (24" of 5/8" steel rod).
>
>Other useful advice: never put your finger or thumb into a pike's mouth while
>it is still alive. They have a most unpleasant set of teeth.
>
For fish smaller than eighteen inches, I'd rather whack something with
the back of the fishes head than whack the back of the fishes head with
something. Whack it on the side of the boat, or a nearby rock.
Not recommended for eighteen inch pike. My sister once had the classic
"that perch you just caught made a great lure for a passing pike" and ended up
with a pike in the canoe with her. She discovered, at the tender age of
eighteen, what a great weapon a canoe paddle makes. She also reported that
putting your finger or thumb into a pike's mouth is still not a clever move
even if it is dead.
Kate
As a child I really truly believed that a musky could take your leg
off, like a shark...
Marcus B Leonard
>>back of the head, through the brain area.
>
> A slightly easier method is to just hold the squirming fish firmly and
>whack it on the top of the head with something like the handle of a fillet
I also recommend the latter method. Much less chance of cutting one's self
while waving a sharp knife around a thrashing fish.
It is easy to kill a trout by whacking it with a knife handle (fishing pliers,
etc.). However, when I first tried this on an 18" northern pike, the fish did
not seem to notice. Usually it took six or eight sharp blows with the pliers
to subdue them. The only time I was able to kill a pike in one blow was at a
trash strewn portage where someone had left the driveshaft of an outboard
motor (24" of 5/8" steel rod).
Other useful advice: never put your finger or thumb into a pike's mouth while
it is still alive. They have a most unpleasant set of teeth.
- Marc
ma...@pawl.rpi.edu
Eric Fetzer
> McNamee writes:
>> ...whack it on the top of the head ...
>> Sounds pretty gross, huh????
>I think I know a grosser one. Slide your thumb into the gills, and
>apply pressure until the spine snaps. No tools, and it has the air of
>loving kindness.
The method in most non-squeamish cultures is a bite between the eyes. This is
also used on octopi. Believe it or not, I have tried it on fish and it isn't
so bad. The slime is unpleasant only after the animal has been dead a few
hours.
This conversation should be considered in light of a traditional
Japanese method of eating fish: out of the tank, cleaned, and onto the plate
so fast that it's still blinking. This is considered a great delicacy and
a sure sign it's fresh, though many westerners are shocked. (Incidentally, a
friend born and raised in Hong Kong was also shocked.) Anything from the sea
is eaten, and some of the most repugnant by western standards is delicious.
Nothing like a visit to another culture!
Eric Fetzer
fet...@ncar.ucar.edu
Hal Lillywhite
|In article <16...@teda.UUCP> d...@teda.UUCP (Dan Liddell) writes:
|> McNamee writes:
|>> ...whack it on the top of the head ...
|>> Sounds pretty gross, huh????
|>I think I know a grosser one. Slide your thumb into the gills, and
|>apply pressure until the spine snaps. No tools, and it has the air of
|>loving kindness.
|
|The method in most non-squeamish cultures is a bite between the eyes. This is
|also used on octopi. Believe it or not, I have tried it on fish and it isn't
|so bad. The slime is unpleasant only after the animal has been dead a few
|hours.
[And other similar postings have appeared suggesting ways to
dispatch our finney friends.]
And some of you folks think hunters are cruel! :-)
Seriously, I find it ironic that some of the same people who condemn
hunting find it acceptable to bury a barbed hook in some food and
offer it to an unsuspecting fish. Of course this is more fun if the
fish is big enough to put up a long fight before it tires, thereby
prolonging the time it is being tortured by the hook.
(Note: I said "some of the people." I'm aware that not all
anti-hunters fish.)
Bruce Smith
>This is entirely true. You must be an expert to serve fresh-water fish as
>sashimi. I've heard the parasites are easily visible with a large magnifying
>glass; it might be edifying to be a bit empirical as far as looking before you
>eat...
For some of them, you don't even need need a magnifying glass. I've caught
many freshwater fish -including trout- whose flesh contained visible parasites.
Bruce Smith
Mark Nass
After reading all this great advice on how to prepare trout on an open fire,
Iwas wondering if Mary actually caught any fish. For that matter did she
ever go
fishing?
Jim Schwalbe
>
>Seriously, I find it ironic that some of the same people who condemn
>hunting find it acceptable to bury a barbed hook in some food and
>offer it to an unsuspecting fish. Of course this is more fun if the
>fish is big enough to put up a long fight before it tires, thereby
>prolonging the time it is being tortured by the hook.
>
It's been over 20 years since I was into fishing but I seem to remember
learning that fish have no pain receptors and therefor do not experience pain.
Can anyone confirm/refute this?
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
: Jim Schwalbe .----------------. "Half of what I say is :
: Hardware Research Group .--+-------------. | meaningless; but I say it :
: Encore Computer Corp. | | E N C O R E | | so that the other half may :
: Mail: {bu-cs,talcott} | `-------------+--' reach you." :
: !encore!schwalbe `----------------' - Kahil Gibran :
`---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Roland Latour
(Hal Lillywhite) responds to this comment:
>
>Seriously, I find it ironic that some of the same people who condemn
>hunting find it acceptable to bury a barbed hook in some food and
>offer it to an unsuspecting fish. Of course this is more fun if the
>fish is big enough to put up a long fight before it tires, thereby
>prolonging the time it is being tortured by the hook.
>
It's been over 20 years since I was into fishing but I seem to remember
learning that fish have no pain receptors and therefor do not experience pain.
Can anyone confirm/refute this?
`---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
This reminds me of a chapter in "Natural Acts", a collection of essays by
David Quammen, who writes for Outside magazine. He did a review of the
literature by the animal rights gurus (I don't have the details, the boot is
at home), and the uptake is that the dividing line between animals that have
rights and those that don't is the same as that between those animals that
feel pain and those that don't: the oyster (No I'm not making this up, and
No, I don't necessarily agree with that point of view)
I personally have no problem with fishing per se (though I don't do it anymore)
because predation (even by humans) and therefore pain are part of life. I do
have a problem with the fact that fishing is allowed in Wildlife Refuge Areas.
Why is it that fish are not considered wildlife?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roland Latour M/S 6-06 {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!rolandl
MIPS Computer Systems rol...@mips.com
"No good deed goes unpunished." -Claire Booth Luce
--
Roland Latour M/S 6-06 {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!rolandl
MIPS Computer Systems rol...@mips.com
"No good deed goes unpunished." -Claire Booth Luce
Hal Lillywhite
>It's been over 20 years since I was into fishing but I seem to remember
>learning that fish have no pain receptors and therefor do not experience pain.
>Can anyone confirm/refute this?
I haven't fished for a long time either but I remember something
which seems to contradict this. I read a suggestion in some
magazine that if the fish "sulks" instead of fighting and tiring
himself out you can hold tension on the line and bang the but of the
rod on a rock. The vibration is transmitted to the hook and
"stimulates" the fish to fight. I tried it once on a fish which was
not really sulking but I wanted to see what happened. It drove the
poor little guy crazy. If it wasn't pain it was something mighty
close!
Mike McNelly
> because predation (even by humans) and therefore pain are part of life. I do
> have a problem with the fact that fishing is allowed in Wildlife Refuge Areas.
>
> Why is it that fish are not considered wildlife?
Many national wildlife areas on the east coast permit goose hunting
(carefully controlled). I used to go hunting in Delaware at a NWA while
I was in the military.
I believe that each refuge is largely responsible for setting its own
policies.
Mike McNelly
mi...@fc.hp.com
Mike 'fritz' Rehberg
>> because predation (even by humans) and therefore pain are part of life. I do
>> have a problem with the fact that fishing is allowed in Wildlife Refuge Areas
Why? National Wildlife Refuges are not (now) intended to be a haven
from human uses like observation, managed hunting and the like.
They seem to serve more of a habitat preservation and management
role.
>> Why is it that fish are not considered wildlife?
Interesting sideline: I heard Cleveland Avery (sp?), a bigshot
from the Fund For Animals in a radio interview last week.
He said that he eats fish. I got a real kick out of that.
>
>Mike McNelly
>mi...@fc.hp.com
--
*********** Mike 'fritz' Rehberg ( mreh...@rodan.acs.syr.edu ) **************
SUNY College of Environmental ** ** "..just as a deer herd lives in mortal fear
Science and Forestry ** ** of its wolves, so does a mountain live in
Siberiacuse, New York *** *** mortal fear of its deer." - Aldo Leopold
Jim Schwalbe
>
>>It's been over 20 years since I was into fishing but I seem to remember
>>learning that fish have no pain receptors and therefor do not experience pain
>
>I haven't fished for a long time either but I remember something
>which seems to contradict this. I read a suggestion in some
>magazine that if the fish "sulks" instead of fighting and tiring
>himself out you can hold tension on the line and bang the but of the
>rod on a rock. The vibration is transmitted to the hook and
>"stimulates" the fish to fight. I tried it once on a fish which was
>not really sulking but I wanted to see what happened. It drove the
>poor little guy crazy. If it wasn't pain it was something mighty
>close!
I didn't say that they couldn't feel touch. There are many different types of
sensory nerves; touch (pressure), pain, heat, cold (different from heat
receptors), etc. I think the phenomena you describe still can be explained by
touch receptors. If you had no pain receptors but someone started tugging
at your mouth, you'd still react to it, it just wouldn't be hurting you.
Sorry Hal, you haven't convinced me. I still think fish don't feel pain.
Wayne Trzyna
>In article <62...@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> ha...@vice.ICO.TEK.COM
>(Hal Lillywhite) responds to this comment:
>>
>
>because predation (even by humans) and therefore pain are part of life. I do
>have a problem with the fact that fishing is allowed in Wildlife Refuge Areas.
>
>Why is it that fish are not considered wildlife?
Well sorry to shake your foundations, but did you know that in Alaska
fishing, hunting, power boats and snowmobiles, to name a few things,
are all allowed in Wildlife Refuge areas and Wilderness areas.
Please don't misunderstand this post however. I'm not putting down
fishing. I love fishing. I hate power boats and smow-mobiles and
cars/roads however. I like Mr. Messner's concept of "White Wilderness."
In white wilderness, I guess no-one would know whether anyone is fishing.
-Wayne Trzyna Solbourne Computer, Inc.
wa...@Solbourne.COM Longmont, CO 80501
uunet!stan!wayne
Sue me if you want.
Mike McNelly
>
> Why? National Wildlife Refuges are not (now) intended to be a haven
> from human uses like observation, managed hunting and the like.
> They seem to serve more of a habitat preservation and management
> role.
>
>
> from the Fund For Animals in a radio interview last week.
> He said that he eats fish. I got a real kick out of that.
> >
> >Mike McNelly
> >mi...@fc.hp.com
>
> --
> *********** Mike 'fritz' Rehberg ( mreh...@rodan.acs.syr.edu ) **************
> SUNY College of Environmental ** ** "..just as a deer herd lives in mortal fear
> Science and Forestry ** ** of its wolves, so does a mountain live in
> Siberiacuse, New York *** *** mortal fear of its deer." - Aldo Leopold
Mike,
Either your notes machine or mine is misbehaving. I had nothing to do
with this note. I did not write it.
Mike McNelly mi...@fc.hp.com
Troy Landers
>(Hal Lillywhite) responds to this comment:
>
>I personally have no problem with fishing per se (though I don't do it anymore)
>because predation (even by humans) and therefore pain are part of life. I do
>have a problem with the fact that fishing is allowed in Wildlife Refuge Areas.
>
>Why is it that fish are not considered wildlife?
Uh, here in Oregon, one can hunt in all wildlife refuges. In fact, the
vast majority of their funding comes from hunting fees. The refuges are
NOT (as commonly believed) refuges from hunters (or fisherman), they are
refuges from the encroachment of "civilization". Destruction of habitat
is far more damaging to wldlife than a few, well-regulated hunters.
-Troy
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Landers Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
tlan...@sequent.com 15450 S.W. Koll Parkway
Phone: (503) 578-4491 Beaverton, Oregon 97006-6063
Hal Lillywhite
>>In article <62...@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> ha...@vice.ICO.TEK.COM
>>(Hal Lillywhite) responds to this comment:
>>I personally have no problem with fishing per se (though I don't do it anymore)
>>because predation (even by humans) and therefore pain are part of life. I do
>>have a problem with the fact that fishing is allowed in Wildlife Refuge Areas.
For the record the above is a misquote. I don't remember who it is
from but it wasn't me. I have no problem with fishing being allowed
in wildlife refuge areas or anywhere else as long as it doesn't
damage the appropriate ecological balance.