Sympatex vs. Goretex
david mann
I've recently read that in one man's experience,
Sypatex is more durable than Goretex while giving
no perceptible difference in performance (waterproofness
or breathability). In particular, this author noted
that he's had better luck with Sympatex resisting
the type of delamination failure that you often
get with Goretex (or the coatings) when you
frequently put it under a set of packstraps.
Does anybody out there have any experience with
Sympatex clothing? Any insights?
Dave Mann | "It is impossible, or not easy, to do
| noble acts without the proper equipment."
dam...@lynx.neu.edu | Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
maohai huang
david mann (dam...@lynx.dac.neu.edu) wrote:
: I've recently read that in one man's experience,
: Sypatex is more durable than Goretex while giving
: no perceptible difference in performance (waterproofness
: or breathability). In particular, this author noted
: that he's had better luck with Sympatex resisting
: the type of delamination failure that you often
: get with Goretex (or the coatings) when you
: frequently put it under a set of packstraps.
: Does anybody out there have any experience with
: Sympatex clothing? Any insights?
i odn't have experience with sympatex. but i have heard good words about it
from people from the other side of the Atlantic. it looks like Goretex is
dominating in the US market -- most people have never heard about it. I
have never seen Sympatex products sold in stores and normal
outfitters. Since sympatex is poreless, it should have no problem with
clogged micro pores.1L;~
- mh
Clyde Soles
david mann wrote:
>
> I've recently read that in one man's experience,
> Sypatex is more durable than Goretex while giving
> no perceptible difference in performance (waterproofness
> or breathability). In particular, this author noted
> that he's had better luck with Sympatex resisting
> the type of delamination failure that you often
> get with Goretex (or the coatings) when you
> frequently put it under a set of packstraps.
Gore delams are pretty much ancient history. Occasionally a bad batch may
get out but that is always tracable to a certain color lot...and is quickly
dealt with. Coating delams are also rare except for the really cheap (or
very old) stuff. Triple Point and Membrain are the two strongest
challengers for Gore-tex but they still have a ways to go.
> Does anybody out there have any experience with
> Sympatex clothing? Any insights?
Most designs are from Europe. I haven't seen any that were particularly
remarkable. I used the Vaude and was very disappointed. PTFE is not
recyclable so its use in CE countries may eventually be curtailed but that
has nothing to do with performance.
Markus F Bj|rksten
Maohai Huang >
> i don't have experience with sympatex. but i have heard good words about it
> from people from the other side of the Atlantic. it looks like Goretex is
> dominating in the US market -- most people have never heard about it.
I guess that Finland classifies as the other side of the Atlantic.
Gore-Tex is certainly widely known here. I think that other 'waterproof-
breathable' materials might have a bigger relative market share here
than there, but this is more due to the fact that outdoor clothing,
particularily the higher end, is much more expensive and often not
available at all over here (small market etc).
Markus Bjorksten
maohai huang
Markus F Bj|rksten (bjor...@cc.hut.fi) wrote:
: Maohai Huang >
: > i don't have experience with sympatex. but i have heard good words about it
: > from people from the other side of the Atlantic. it looks like Goretex is
: > dominating in the US market -- most people have never heard about it.
: I guess that Finland classifies as the other side of the Atlantic.
: Gore-Tex is certainly widely known here.
oops, i meant "most people *in the US* have never heard about it (sympatex)
because GoreTex is dominating the (US) market." i largely believe Goretex
is not much worse than symtatex in most cases, especially when the fabric
is clean. Gore's marketing and R&D strength is surely stronger.
Clyde Soles wrote:
: I used the Vaude and was very disappointed.
could you elaborate this a little bit? was it the design or the make or the
fabric that was disappointing? not that i can afford another shell... just
interested.
thanks
- mh
Stephen Jones
An article in `Trail' Mar '96 presented some year old results from the
Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Testing and Research. In
their breathability test 2-layer Goretex got 72 when dry and 40 when
wet, Sympatex (2-layer direct laminate) got 65 when dry and 20 when
wet. The figures are approximate as I'm reading by eye from the
graph. They were measuring water vapour transmission in g/m2/hr. There
are figures for about a dozen waterproof fabrics/coatings. The Triple
Point 1200 was perhaps the best overall 63 when dry and 55 when wet.
The article does go on to say, that really it's all down to
individuals, to quote "So, if you sweat like a pig ... you'll be
wringing every penny of performance out of your top of the range
breathable jacket. If, however you glow gently like a Victorian lady
watching a summer cricket match, even a bog standard PU coating may be
all you required".
None of this means that Goretex is not over-priced or that other
waterproofs are not better value for money, just that arguing on
grounds of breathability is doubtful.
Steve
david mann
Stephen Jones (jo...@imag.fr) wrote:
: An article in `Trail' Mar '96 presented some year old results from the
david mann
Stephen Jones (jo...@imag.fr) wrote:
: An article in `Trail' Mar '96 presented some year old results from the
: Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Testing and Research. In
: their breathability test 2-layer Goretex got 72 when dry and 40 when
: wet, Sympatex (2-layer direct laminate) got 65 when dry and 20 when
: wet. The figures are approximate as I'm reading by eye from the
: graph. They were measuring water vapour transmission in g/m2/hr. There
: are figures for about a dozen waterproof fabrics/coatings. The Triple
: Point 1200 was perhaps the best overall 63 when dry and 55 when wet.
Steve,
Thanks for posting these numbers. Its the first time I've seen them.
One thing they seen to lend creadance to is the claim that Triple
Point gets its good breathability when wet by virtue of a better
DWR than that used on the GoreTex tested. I recall seeing some
lab numbers from a Marmot document that showed a considerable
(well numerically noticable) difference in the breathablity
of (dry) Goretex depending on the type of face fabrics. It would
be interesting to know what types of face fabrics where used
in the Swiss tests. It would also be intersting to see numbers
run with identical face fabrics and identical DWRs. I would
suspect that we may see that Goretex is the most breathable
barrier. But as you correctly noted, the numbers also suggest
the differences are pretty small and choosing based on breathablity
is rather silly.
By the way, did this article say anything about the durability
of Sympatex compared to Goretex; especially with regards to
resistance to bubbling or delamination?
Clyde Soles
david mann wrote:
> Thanks for posting these numbers. Its the first time I've seen them.
This is the EMPA report that has been widely touted by some and mostly put
down by others. I have a copy of the actual report; there are enough flaws in
it that I don't give it too much value, hence I have not posted numbers.
> It would
> be interesting to know what types of face fabrics where used
> in the Swiss tests. It would also be intersting to see numbers
> run with identical face fabrics and identical DWRs.
These are some of the most glaring problems. The scientists pretty much
ignored the importance of the fabric the WP/B stuff is applied to. The tests
are be redesigned now that they've been given a lot more input.
> By the way, did this article say anything about the durability
> of Sympatex compared to Goretex; especially with regards to
> resistance to bubbling or delamination?
You're still on this kick? It's a non-issue.
Cupidon
dam...@lynx.dac.neu.edu (david mann) wrote:
>
>
>By the way, did this article say anything about the durability
>of Sympatex compared to Goretex; especially with regards to
>resistance to bubbling or delamination?
>
>
>Dave Mann | "It is impossible, or not easy, to do
> | noble acts without the proper equipment."
>dam...@lynx.neu.edu | Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
>
Yes sympatex is as good quality as goretex and I can testified it on 700
pairs of boots I bough in Canada. I understood that this is because
Goretex do not make the same quality in the world. Goretex Italy decided
last year to change the support of his product despite many advices I
have been told. Result, I still have 250 pair of Goretex boots value
between 250.00 to 300 retail to clear out from 130.00$ Cad. And don't
tell me that Goretex is a warranty life because the maker which name is
Trezeta do not want to make the warranty anymore on his Goretex boots....
Incredable?
Yes it is and I signed
Bernard Latapie.
serge.v...@gmail.com
> Sypatex is more durable than Goretex while giving
> no perceptible difference in performance (waterproofness
> or breathability). In particular, this author noted
> that he's had better luck with Sympatex resisting
> the type of delamination failure that you often
> get with Goretex (or the coatings) when you
> frequently put it under a set of packstraps.
>
> Sympatex clothing? Any insights?
>
> | noble acts without the proper equipment."
> dam...@lynx.neu.edu | Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
James Tomasino
> from Halti). After less than 2 hours in a heavy rain, I was totally
> wet. I never had such a bad experience with Goretex Pro. This latter
> is just unbeatable in terms of performance.
claims. Sympatex seems to work at first before it soaks through.
Supposedly reimpregnating your sympatex will help, but even the brand
new stuff is no match for Goretex.
--
~ toma...@sdf.org