Hiking Mt Washington (NH) with Kids
Sean Murray
Any advice?
penny s
"Sean Murray" <sean...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p0CT8.94452$hF5.4...@news2.east.cox.net...
> Hey, has anyone hiked Mt Washington with children (3 and 4 yo?)
> Any advice?
>
>
this is the one in NH that has supposedly the worst weather on the East
Coast..?
The one that people die on because they are unprepared? Or do you mean a
different one?
Just curious...
penny
Gary S.
wrote:
>Hey, has anyone hiked Mt Washington with children (3 and 4 yo?)
>Any advice?
>
3 and 4 yo?
Is this about your goals or their goals?
Are you trying to teach them to hate hiking?
Do you want to carry them both down?
The Cog Railway and the Stage (van) services are quite clear on
discouraging people from hiking up and riding down. Gets very
expensive, just a couple of bucks less than a round trip, and goes up
lot$ towards the end of the day.
Many fit adults with experience find Mt. Washington difficult, and the
changable weather, wind and so on to be challenging. The terrain is
difficult, and there is a 4000 elevation gain.
There are hundreds of hikes in the Whites better suited to young
children.
It is far better to take them on a smaller, easier mountain which is
safer and that they are very likely to complete. You can work up to
Washington with them.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence
Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
penny s
"Gary S." <Idontwantspam@net> wrote in message
news:3d1f8b7...@news.bellatlantic.net...
> On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:33:41 GMT, "Sean Murray" <sean...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Hey, has anyone hiked Mt Washington with children (3 and 4 yo?)
> >Any advice?
> >
> 3 and 4 yo?
>
> Is this about your goals or their goals?
>
> Are you trying to teach them to hate hiking?
Gary, I am glad it's not just me that was thinking this was a way out idea
to take small children hiking up there!!
Maybe he LIKES to carry two kids?
penny
Doug McDonald
Maybe he meant part way. There probably are NOT better mountains
in New Hampshire to walk part way up, i.e., to Tuckermann's,
for kids. I have no idea whether your average 3 yr. old is up
even to that, however.
Doug McDonald
penny s
"Doug McDonald" <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:3D1FA4D5...@scs.uiuc.edu...
> > >
> > > Are you trying to teach them to hate hiking?>
> Maybe he meant part way. There probably are NOT better mountains
> in New Hampshire to walk part way up, i.e., to Tuckermann's,
> for kids. I have no idea whether your average 3 yr. old is up
> even to that, however.
>
> Doug McDonald
Having had ( several) three years olds.... "not much" (compared to adults)
would be a pretty good estimate.
penny
Doug Adair
> Any advice?
Do yourself and them a huge favor - work your way up to it via a
series of shorter, less rigorous hikes until you don't need to ask the
question because you know they are ready. This could very well take
many years. My first "summit" was Mt. Monadnock when I was about 8,
and that is a far cry from Mt. Washington (I think I was at least 10).
it sounds like you love to hike - give your kids a chance to learn the
wonders of the mountains for themselves by not force-feeding bites
that are too big to chew.
Doug Adair
Bruce W.1
=========================================================
A hike around the visitor center at the top would be nice, after you
drive up. There's a gift shop, museum and a restaurant to hike in. I
don't know that Sean was suggesting a summit attempt with a 4 year old.
That's crazy, it's a tough climb. But you never know, maybe he's trying
to get the Darwin Award.
Gary S.
The 2nd and 3rd graphs of your DW cover this well.
Mt. Washington (for this area) attracts many who want to start with
the biggest one in the Northeast. This has some of us who know the
area a bit skeptical of beginners wanting to take on Mt. Washington,
as well as the many others who underestimate it.
No matter how many warnings about the ruggedness and the potentially
dangerous weather, they are going to go for it. A large part, I think,
is the summit buildings and the perceived availability of a ride down.
At three or four, a child is not going to be able to do a fraction of
this hike. At minimum, they will be miserable; potentially their lives
could be at risk.
I once was an assistant scoutmaster with an organization which will
remain anonymous. I wanted to take the kids on a hike, on something
basic but quite within their abilities for a first hike. These kids
ranged from 11 to 14 or so, with a few of the other leaders/fathers
along. Rather than the easy hike I suggested, they wanted to do
Washington, rather than mid-September, we went in mid-October, rather
than the wool or synthetic clothes I recommended, the other leaders
told them that jeans were fine, vinyl ponchos were fine, and so on.
In the course of the day, our progress was rather slow. The weather
included a light mist (not a problem in fleece, big problem in jeans).
Instead of the summit, 4000' elevation gain, we made it to Hermit
Lake, a 1600' gain on an easy trail. If these kids, not experienced
hikers but typical active kids (Little League, etc) could not do that,
how will a 3 year old do?
A friend of mine is quite pleased that his 3 year old daughter can
hike up an easy mountain with an 800' elevation gain and no
scrambling. He still brings the kiddie pack to carry her just in case.
I think that is a far more reasonable goal with such young children.
The original poster should reconsider his plan, IMHO.
Gary S.
Even that could be a lot for many three-year-olds. Besides the 2.4
miles with 1600' elevation gain (Tuckerman Ravine trail from Pinkham
to Hermit Lake), the trail is a series of boulders. The 12" step up
that is no big deal for an adult will seem quite different to little
legs.
We have no idea how far the original poster was planning, all the way
to the summit or partway.
Montana Wolf
> Any advice?
My advice, go to Lincoln Woods. It's a 3.5 mile easy and level hike
along the beautiful Pemigawasset River to Franconia Falls. It's also
a great place to break kids in on backpacking if it has been reopened.
IMO Mt. Washington is too much for kids that age. I did take my 6 yo
old up, or rather he waited often for us to catch up. However he had
done several 10 milers at age 5, including a couple inGlacier NP.
We aborted our first try up Tuckermans due to a light rain and a
healthy dose of respect. A week later someone slipped off the rocks
and died.
If you are set on getting to the top, drive or take the train. Or
have mom and kids ride and you walk.
Doug McDonald
I wrote:
> I have no idea whether your average 3 yr. old is up
> >> even to that, [i.e. car to Tuckermann's Ravine] however.
> >>
> >> Doug McDonald
> >
> >Having had ( several) three years olds.... "not much" (compared to adults)
> >would be a pretty good estimate.
> >
> Even that could be a lot for many three-year-olds. Besides the 2.4
> miles with 1600' elevation gain (Tuckerman Ravine trail from Pinkham
> to Hermit Lake), the trail is a series of boulders. The 12" step up
> that is no big deal for an adult will seem quite different to little
> legs.
>
I guess not! Certainly, on a nice day, it is OK for say a 7 year old.
In N. H. there are lots of choices, not all ideal for kids
even thogh "easy". Chocorua, for instance, is considered an "easy"
trail and in done by gazillions of unprepared Boy and Girl scouts every
season. But it is too long for small kids, the early parts
will be boring as hell, and the top part to rugged.
Monadnock is even easier, but has similar problems.
What the original poster should try to find a trail that starts,
right at the road, in an interesting area, and is easy. The obvious
first choice is unfortunately TOO obvious to adults and older
kids, and TOO something-else-you-know-what, but for even a 4 year old
should
be a real good idea: The Flume (in Franconia Notch.) Turn back at
the right place, and head off to some nice view site ... maybe Artist's
Bluff nearby (I forget the climb height)?
Doug McDonald
Bruce W.1
>
> Hey, has anyone hiked Mt Washington with children (3 and 4 yo?)
> Any advice?
A recent related article:
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=3897&messageid=1024379444
Sean Murray
First: Thanks for the responses.
Second: FUCK YOU all. You cocksucking douchebags are all a bunch of
assholes.
I asked for advice. You all flamed me. I got one response that suggested
a better hike with children. The rest of you elitist bastards treated me as
if I farted in church. I have hiked, and my children have done some pretty
challenging hikes with me ( I carried the younger one).
At the very most, you could have said "don't do it".
I know Mt. Washington is challenging. I know the weather is bad for many
days of the year. I was looking for advice. Not flames.
Like I said. FUCK You all.
Sean Murray
128/544/55874587
"Sean Murray" <sean...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p0CT8.94452$hF5.4...@news2.east.cox.net...
montanawolf
I was the one:)
"Sean Murray" <sean...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:xWrU8.12275$%%2.29...@news2.east.cox.net...
montanawolf
In all seriousness, you may be a little too harsh in your reply.
Your question was "Hey, has anyone hiked Mt Washington with children (3 and
4 yo?)
Any advice?"
You didn't really lay out all of your previousness experiences. I can
understand this as sometimes I am rushed to get going to work etc that I
don't take enough time to include all the details that might be neccessary.
Being that you have carried your kids in the past and are willing to do so
again, in my opinion makes you a first rate hiking dad.
Then there is the issue of the "Mt. Washington Paranoia". In my opinion
most of the people who get in trouble are those who can't say "that's
enough, it's time to go home".
Also, another point in hiking with young kids, as I am sure you know, is the
ability to accept the fact that their "turn around point" may not come as
far down the trail as yours.
So Sean, I humbly submit that you may have been a little too harsh in your
response. However I also am a little frustrated with those who say Mt.
Washington is "always" too hard and deadly without coming within 1000 miles
of it.
King Pineapple
news:afu5ev$hgk5o$1...@ID-151271.news.dfncis.de...
> So Sean, I humbly submit that you may have been a little too harsh in your
> response. However I also am a little frustrated with those who say Mt.
> Washington is "always" too hard and deadly without coming within 1000
miles
> of it.
No, those of us who live less than 50 miles away from Mt. Washington say
that it's dangerous, too.
As for Sean here, I hate to tell you that most of the other people (who you
flamed) are right. That mountain is absolutely NOT for 3 and 4 year old
kids. Wait until they're 7 or 8 or 9. They'll be able to appreciate it
then....
Craig
Meredith, NH USA
montanawolf
"King Pineapple" <saddl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:QOBU8.1060$pp3....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> "montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:afu5ev$hgk5o$1...@ID-151271.news.dfncis.de...
>
>>
> that it's dangerous, too.
I never said it wasn't dangerous
> As for Sean here, I hate to tell you that most of the other people (who
you
> flamed) are right. That mountain is absolutely NOT for 3 and 4 year old
> kids. Wait until they're 7 or 8 or 9. They'll be able to appreciate it
> then....
>
Agreed
Andrew Bading
Sean Murray wrote:
> I have a couple of things to say.
> First: Thanks for the responses.
> Second: FUCK YOU all. You cocksucking douchebags are all a bunch of
> assholes.
> I asked for advice. You all flamed me. I got one response that suggested
> a better hike with children. The rest of you elitist bastards treated me as
> if I farted in church. I have hiked, and my children have done some pretty
> challenging hikes with me ( I carried the younger one).
> At the very most, you could have said "don't do it".
> I know Mt. Washington is challenging. I know the weather is bad for many
> days of the year. I was looking for advice. Not flames.
>
> Like I said. FUCK You all.
>
> Sean Murray
Flamed ?
Gee, I didn't see anyone say that only a douchebag a**hole would attempt
to make a 3 or 4 year-old climb MW.
I did read lots of sound advice. Perhaps "Sure, no problem" was what you
were looking for. More than one poster suggested other hikes more
suitable for younger children.
40% grades, boulder hopping on rocks as big as cars and small houses,
4000'+ elevation gain in 4 miles mean that this hike would be torture to
any 3 or 4 year-old. This terrain does not lend itself to carrying a
child, even in a child carrier backpack.
My 11 year-old could do it, not as a dayhike, though. I would have no
great reservations about taking him on this hike if we:
Hiked in summer.
Hiked to Hermit Lake and spent the night.
Had nearly a 100% chance for clear weather.
Got an early start for the summit.
Flamed ?, I don't think so.
penny s
"montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:afu5ev$hgk5o$1...@ID-151271.news.dfncis.de...
>
> In all seriousness, you may be a little too harsh in your reply.
>
> Your question was "Hey, has anyone hiked Mt Washington with children (3
and
> 4 yo?)
> Any advice?"
>
> You didn't really lay out all of your previousness experiences. I can
> understand this as sometimes I am rushed to get going to work etc that I
> don't take enough time to include all the details that might be
neccessary.
>
As a responder to the original post, I agree here. One adage of usenet, is
that the more information you give, the more precise information you get.
When someone is vague in their rfi... readers tend to go to the lowest
common denominator. So it's easy to assume that there is NO experience, and
with Mt. Washington having a high rate of Barney type rescues every season,
assume the worst.
I assure you, if you said that you were experienced and your kids were
strong hikers, you most likely would've gotten a different flavor of reply.
Penny S
Andrew Bading
Completely putting aside the question of weather on the mountain.
A hike of similar distance and elevation gain in say, the Smokies, would
be a nice, short uphill walk. Certainly nothing beyond the abilities of
any 4 year old, and, yes you could easily carry a child on your
shoulders the whole way.
On Mt. Washington, approaching treeline and above, you are basically
boulder hopping. Think of it as nearly every step being carefully,
consciously, and deliberately made. Not technical climbing,
but I wouldn't want a kid piggybacking on my shoulders. One misplaced
step or slip and a 3 or 4 year old could very easily end up with
fractured bones or skull.
The terrain makes all the difference here, My 11 year old can and does
far longer hikes, or greater elevation gains than Mt. Wash. but these
are "walking" as opposed to "climbing".
amh
Your original post gave no information as to your condition or how
much experience you have hiking with your kids. Mt. Washington
attracts all sorts of newbies who have no clue what they are doing
(I've seen it myself). You gave every indication that you are one of
these newbies.
Having said that, If you treat the free advice you got here the same
way you treat your kids I think the people who flamed you were
correct. My only hope is that there is an officer in Child protective
Services who knows child abuse is on the mountain that day. And I hope
that person puts your children into protective custody.
Andy
On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 00:53:49 GMT, "Sean Murray" <sean...@cox.net>
wrote:
>I have a couple of things to say.
montanawolf
"Andrew Bading" <apba...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3D2336FF...@fuse.net...
> My 11 year-old could do it, not as a dayhike, though. I would have no
> great reservations about taking him on this hike if we:
>
> Hiked in summer.
> Hiked to Hermit Lake and spent the night.
> Had nearly a 100% chance for clear weather.
> Got an early start for the summit.
I agree with your requisite conditions. IMHO your 11 yo could do it in a
day. As I said in a previous post in this tread, my 6 yo did it in a day.
However, we went up on the Cog railroad side, after bailing on an attempt
the previous day to go up Tuck's due to bad weather.
Bob Gross
thrive on that.
Tuckerman's Ravine was a good workout for me when I went there the first
time, but that was in late October with snow on the ground.
I don't think any adults would be cruel enough to their kids to take them up
there at that season.
---Bob Gross---
"montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ag059g$htuns$1...@ID-151271.news.dfncis.de...
montanawolf
day trying to go up Tucks' due to bad weather, and I must admit, after
seeing the headwall up close and personal. To be honest, the 6 yo spent a
lot of time waiting for Mom and Dad to catch up to him. I thought I was in
fairly good shape too :(
"Bob Gross" <rwg...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ag089m$k0f$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...
Pete Hickey
Bob Gross <rwg...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>I don't think any adults would be cruel enough to their kids to take them up
>there at that season.
You'd be surprised at what some parents will do with their kids
in order to have them be the first/youngest to complete something.
-Pete
--
--
LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot
taste the difference between fried dog and fried cat?
montanawolf
as a yo and then was disappointed because he couldn't do it again the next
day
"Bob Gross" <rwg...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
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montanawolf
"Pete Hickey" <pe...@bitman.uottawa.ca.DELETE.ME> wrote in message
news:YHNU8.35557$FN1.8...@wagner.videotron.net...
Bob Gross
six-year-old has a subscription to Soldier Of Fortune magazine.
---Bob Gross---
"montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ag094f$hkanc$1...@ID-151271.news.dfncis.de...
montanawolf
Let me guess, you don't have any kids do you?
"Bob Gross" <rwg...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ag09kd$kfc$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...
montanawolf
This is also the same kid that hiked up to Granite Park Chalet in Glacier
NP
as a 5 yo and then was disappointed because he couldn't do it again the
Bob Gross
---Bob Gross---
"montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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montanawolf
"Bob Gross" <rwg...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
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Bob Gross
---Bob Gross---
"montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Bruce W.1
>
> Geez, is this rec.backcountry, or is it a singles chat room?
>
Yeah, why don't you guys get a private newsgroup like
psych.children.stress . Bob made a funny, duh, hah hah.
Montanwolf, are you having marriage & child problems? Move it to
alt.marriage.spouse.abuse.bam.bam .
montanawolf
"Bruce W.1" <b...@NOSPAMcorecomm.net> wrote in message
news:3D23CE53...@NOSPAMcorecomm.net...
montanawolf
you do like :)
Or, you could read the entire thread and make an intelligent reply.
The choice is yours.
"Bruce W.1" <b...@NOSPAMcorecomm.net> wrote in message
news:3D23CE53...@NOSPAMcorecomm.net...
montanawolf
I took my own advice and reread your post. I guess I am guilty of premature
sarcasm. Bang boom clang
My Bad :(
"montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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montanawolf
"Bob Gross" <rwg...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
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King Pineapple
"montanawolf" <montana...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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>
> day. As I said in a previous post in this tread, my 6 yo did it in a day.
> However, we went up on the Cog railroad side, after bailing on an attempt
> the previous day to go up Tuck's due to bad weather.
By going up the "cog railroad side", do you mean you went up the Jewell
Trail? Or Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail?
Craig
Meredith, NH USA
montanawolf
"King Pineapple" <saddl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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bbense+rec.backc...@telemark.stanford.edu
In article <ag089m$k0f$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>,
Bob Gross <rwg...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>You folks must raise tough kids. I guess that is good, as long as they
>thrive on that.
>
>Tuckerman's Ravine was a good workout for me when I went there the first
>time, but that was in late October with snow on the ground.
>
>I don't think any adults would be cruel enough to their kids to take them up
>there at that season.
>
- - Explains a lot about me then. %-) At the time I thought it was
great fun, the worse the weather the better. It's hard for me
to remember, but I think the first time I climbed
Mt. Washington via Tuck's I was about 9 or 10. The late fall
trips happened later on when I was 12 or so. I think you can
do a lot with kids if you listen and keep the point of the
outing to having fun. Leave YOUR goals at home and start
slow. I had probably been on about 20 - 30 trips before we
climbed Mt. Washington.
- - Booker C. Bense
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