Backpacker's Pressure Cooker?
Roy Salume
Hi folks,
I'm with a party of 5 which will be spending 7 days
at 11,000'+. The fuel calculations (white gas with 2
communal meals a day) tell me that we'll have to lug
lots of heavy bottles up with us.
I know light weight pressure cookers designed for
altitude backpacking exist ... I just don't know
where to find one. I've tried REI, MSR, and all the
usual sources in the SF Bay Area. No luck.
Would one of you kind and knowledgeable folks point
me in the correct direction?
Thanks in advance,
Roy Salume
roy_s...@smtp.svl.trw.com
Mike2678
In article <roy_salume-30...@m42109.svl.trw.com>,
roy_s...@smtp.svl.trw.com (Roy Salume) writes:
>I'm with a party of 5 which will be spending 7 days
>at 11,000'+. The fuel calculations (white gas with 2
>communal meals a day) tell me that we'll have to lug
>lots of heavy bottles up with us.
>
>
Why work so hard. Set up a decent menu and enjoy the hiking more. All
you need is an 8" Skillet with large spoon and cup for untensils and off
the shelf food. Throw in a Peak 1 or equivilent and you're set.
Brian Parks
In article <roy_salume-30...@m42109.svl.trw.com>,
roy_s...@smtp.svl.trw.com (Roy Salume) wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm with a party of 5 which will be spending 7 days
> at 11,000'+. The fuel calculations (white gas with 2
> communal meals a day) tell me that we'll have to lug
> lots of heavy bottles up with us.
>
i went hiking high with 3 last summer for seven days and six nights.
mornings were kept simple with pap tarts, hot cocoa, instant oatmeal, etc.
lunch was an individual thing with no cooking. dinner was communal and
consisted of a one pot meal (the everything under the sun garbage can
method) with coffee or tea afterward. we used just a tad more than a half
liter of fuel for the entire trip, and we were not taking unusual
precautions. just common sense. i.e. - simmer when possible, and turn the
stove off if you wont be using it for a while. with five people you could
get by with a liter and a half max. that's not too bad i dont think. most
of your weight will be food. dont bother with a pressure cooker. it wont
lower your cooking time that much and it weighs too much.
bmp
--
Delete the "SPAM" to reach me directly
Alan Dove
Hey, folks:
I missed some posts in this thread, I think, so please tell me if a real
answer was posted. This subject has come up several times, without ever
(in my experience) producing a satisfactory result. I'm not traveling
into the mountains where I would need one any time soon, but does anybody
out there know if there is a current source for small,
backpacking-suitable pressure cookers? I can think of a few situations
where they would definitely be handy. If they aren't around now, were
they at some time? I've seen references to them before, but I theorize
that increased litigation may have driven them into extinction.
--Alan
__________________
Alan Dove
N3IMU
ad...@columbia.edu
http://128.59.173.136/Poliolab/Alan/Dove.html
Tom Jazbutis
Alan,
There used to be pressure cookers out there. Got mine at REI sometime
in the mid 70's.
They're unavailable now (as far as I know and I've looked). Not sure
why.
A pressure cooker is, in my experience, overkill unless you're going to
be at high altitude
(+14000') for an extended period of time. I've used my on Denali.
Never saw much need for
the thing and it's weight even for trips of +30 days where camp is
usually below the 14000'
mark. Even with the pressure cooker you're probably limited to ~10 days
or so of food that
you can carry.
Jazz
Mike2678
In article
<Pine.SUN.3.95L.97070...@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>, Alan
Dove <ad...@columbia.edu> writes:
>out there know if there is a current source for small,
>backpacking-suitable pressure cookers? I can think of a few situations
>where they would definitely be handy. If they aren't around now, were
>they at some time?
Does anyone know where I can rent a Skycrane Helicopter to bring all this
stuff I need to my campsite everynight? Not far just about 20-30 miles
into the Sierra Mtns. Must be able to pick up and deliver every Morning
and night.
Lloyd Bowles
I don't know where to get them but the author Robert Perkins (Into the
Great Solitude) used one on his 72 day solo canoe trip of the Back River
in the Canadian Arctic. I wonder if a pressure cooker would save
fuel?
--
Lloyd Bowles
The Mad Canoeist
"Keep the open side up!"
Eugene Miya
In article <19970709153...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
Mike2678 <mike...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article
><Pine.SUN.3.95L.97070...@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>, Alan
>Dove <ad...@columbia.edu> writes:
>>out there know if there is a current source for small,
>>backpacking-suitable pressure cookers?
Expedition sources.
>Does anyone know where I can rent a Skycrane Helicopter to bring all this
>stuff I need to my campsite everynight? Not far just about 20-30 miles
>into the Sierra Mtns.
The nearest S-64 I know is based in Southern Oregon.
If you have to ask the price, you can't afford. I have a particular
fondness for S-64s, I took a State drafting prize at a young age with
United Aircraft's help.
Chinooks (CH-47s) are easier to find. One is based just North of Truckee.
We are using one to replace a roof on one of the Sierra Club huts,
and Simpson will know the rental rates. Those are independent of the CA
or NV Guard or the Army/Marines/Navy, etc.
Dr. Jack
>>out there know if there is a current source for small, backpacking-
>>suitable pressure cookers?
>Does anyone know where I can rent a Skycrane Helicopter to bring all this
>stuff I need to my campsite everynight? Not far just about 20-30 miles
>into the Sierra Mtns. Must be able to pick up and deliver every Morning
>and night.
So that's how you get your jacuzzi and sauna out to the wilderness!!!
Quotes of the Week:
I have learned that the swiftest traveler is he that goes
afoot."
"To make a railroad round the world available to all mankind is
equivalent to grading the whole surface of the planet."
Walden, Henry David Thoreau
Mike2678
>>Does anyone know where I can rent a Skycrane Helicopter to bring all
this
>>stuff I need to my campsite everynight? Not far just about 20-30 miles
>>into the Sierra Mtns. Must be able to pick up and deliver every Morning
>>and night.
I don't believe that someone took my post Seriously!
Art Doyle
>Hi folks,
>
>I'm with a party of 5 which will be spending 7 days
>at 11,000'+. The fuel calculations (white gas with 2
>communal meals a day) tell me that we'll have to lug
>lots of heavy bottles up with us.
>
>altitude backpacking exist ... I just don't know
>where to find one. I've tried REI, MSR, and all the
>usual sources in the SF Bay Area. No luck.
>
>Would one of you kind and knowledgeable folks point
>me in the correct direction?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Roy Salume
I own an Itallian made, all stainless (except for aluminum bottom)
pressure cooker with *no* rubber gaskets. It is tall and holds 6
liters when filled to the brim. No markings are in evidence other tahn
a tiny "Made in Italy" stamp on the bottom.
We have conducted experiments during our last few outings to determine
the worthyness of it's participation. Results are yet inconclusive,
but here are some interesting uses:
1. Fuel savings are dramatic @ ~ 40%.
2. One of the best features, is the ability to sterilize all of our
eating utensils with < 2 ounces of water/steam.
3. We generally pack our utensils clean but unsterilized within the
pressure cooker, then sterilize just before use. As an autoclave, this
beast cannot be beat. With less than 1/4 cup of water, everything is
sterilized.
Problems:
At 4lbs, any weight savings with regards to fuel are at *best* a wash.
Only the need for *extreme* water conservation (usually we carry all
our water) makes this practical. If water sources were available
during my trip, I doubt that we would use the pressure vessel.
If I can every find the vendor, I will pass this info on.
Best,
Art
Lloyd Bowles
Art Doyle wrote:
> At 4lbs, any weight savings with regards to fuel are at *best* a wash.
> Only the need for *extreme* water conservation (usually we carry all
> our water) makes this practical. If water sources were available
> during my trip, I doubt that we would use the pressure vessel.
So the pressure cooker would probably only make sense for extended trips
where you can save more than 4 lb of fuel or for high altitudes where
lower atmospheric pressure would increase cooking time & fuel usage.
I'm not into mountain climbing & only dream of extended trips. Maybe
some day though.
John P. Kiljan
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>I'm with a party of 5 which will be spending 7 days
>>at 11,000'+. The fuel calculations (white gas with 2
>>communal meals a day) tell me that we'll have to lug
>>lots of heavy bottles up with us.
>>
>>I know light weight pressure cookers designed for
>>altitude backpacking exist ... I just don't know
>>where to find one. I've tried REI, MSR, and all the
>>usual sources in the SF Bay Area. No luck.
>>
>>Would one of you kind and knowledgeable folks point
>>me in the correct direction?
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>Roy Salume
>>roy_salume@smtp.
These are still readily available in larger sizes in department stores,
or, if you want to save a lot of money, in thrift shops. I use mine
(about 3 quarts) for cooking beans, stews, rice, lentils and the like.
Not only does it cut the cooking time by more than half, meats come out
more tender. If you are planning to cook a lot of these types of foods
for a group of five, I'd consider bringing one; otherwise, it is
probably not worth it in terms of convenience for cooking the
freeze-dried stuff. It is probably not much of a weight saver for fuel
no matter what you are cooking for seven days unless you really like a
lot of beans 8^)
-- John Kiljan
Alan Dove
On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Art Doyle wrote:
> I own an Itallian made, all stainless (except for aluminum bottom)
> pressure cooker with *no* rubber gaskets. It is tall and holds 6
> liters when filled to the brim. No markings are in evidence other tahn
> a tiny "Made in Italy" stamp on the bottom.
<snip>
> At 4lbs, any weight savings with regards to fuel are at *best* a wash.
> Only the need for *extreme* water conservation (usually we carry all
> our water) makes this practical. If water sources were available
> during my trip, I doubt that we would use the pressure vessel.
> If I can every find the vendor, I will pass this info on.
Cool - people are actually posting real answers and experiences in this
thread now. I stopped by Lechter's yesterday and checked their selection
of pressure cookers, and found two virtually identical to the one you
describe. I didn't have a scale, but hefting one model in my hand I
estimated the weight at about 3lbs., though I wouldn't be surprised if it
were 4. The sales staff had never seen one smaller than 6 liters, but
that doesn't mean much. One was $40 and one was $60.
For an expedition where a lot of people must be fed for a long time, this
seems to make a lot of sense. A pressure cooker would also be the last
word in destroying microbes in drinking water (or on a razor blade before
performing that emergency backcountry appendectomy).
Mike2678
In article
<Pine.SUN.3.95L.97071...@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>, Alan
Dove <ad...@columbia.edu> writes:
>> At 4lbs, any weight savings with regards to fuel are at *best* a wash.
>> Only the need for *extreme* water conservation (usually we carry all
>> our water) makes this practical. If water sources were available
>> during my trip, I doubt that we would use the pressure vessel.
>
>
I still fail to see WHY would anyone in thier right mnd wish to carry an
additional 4 lbs backpacking for a pressure cooker when it is so
unnecessary. The benefits just do not exceed the disadvantage of the
weight, and volume.
Michael Daly
Lloyd Bowles wrote:
>
>
> So the pressure cooker would probably only make sense for extended trips
> where you can save more than 4 lb of fuel or for high altitudes where
> lower atmospheric pressure would increase cooking time & fuel usage.
>
> I'm not into mountain climbing & only dream of extended trips. Maybe
> some day though.
>
FWIW, I was on a sailing trip 20 years ago where we did most of
our cooking in a pressure cooker. There were two advantages.
One was the reduction in cooking time (you're hungry and you want
to go to bed.) The other, more important, was that it was the
only reasonable way to cook on an alcohol stove. To this day,
I think that if alcohol is your only fuel option, a pressure
cooker should be considered (hire a sherpa and ignore the weight -
or custom make one in titanium.) However, I'd do almost anything
to avoid cooking with alcohol fuel again.
Mike.
Matthew . Dunne
Ever try to cook at 14'000 feet? Water boils at a much lower temp at high
altitude. Also, there's no reason why someone like sigg or MSR can't make
a pressure cooker much lighter than four pounds. REI in seattle used to
have them, supposedly. They were not quite round (some oval-shaped)
allowing the lid to be inserted below a lip for a positive seal. Where
are they now?
Matt
Alan Dove
On 14 Jul 1997, Mike2678 wrote:
> I still fail to see WHY would anyone in thier right mnd wish to carry an
> additional 4 lbs backpacking for a pressure cooker when it is so
> unnecessary. The benefits just do not exceed the disadvantage of the
> weight, and volume.
You make the assumption that everyone who goes backpacking is a) traveling
in a small group, b) not far from "civilization", and c) carrying their
gear in a way that requires a stringent focus on weight. How about a
rafting expedition down a long river in a third-world country? How about
a K2 summit attempt? How about a researcher setting up camp in a remote
Antarctic site? A ham radio DXpedition to Peter I Island?
A gallon of gasoline weighs six pounds. If you have a large party and are
carrying one gallon versus two (because you can save half your fuel by
using a pressure cooker), then the four pounds for a pressure cooker
suddenly starts to make a lot of sense - you've saved two pounds. The
fellow with the alcohol stove had a good point, too - cooking over an
alcohol burner is an excruciating process, and I can imagine boaters
getting a lot of use out of a pressure cooker. Come to think of it, I may
get my folks one for a Christmas present this year.
You are correct, though, that the vast majority of backpackers don't need
something like this - it's still a good thing to know about, should the
need arise.
Eugene Miya
In article <Pine.SUN.3.95L.97071...@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>,
Alan Dove <ad...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>How about a researcher setting up camp in a remote Antarctic site?
Hey, we ate well. Turkey for each of the holidays, a turkey for the
communal B-day (December was the only B-day month). The king crab leg:
slurp! I figure out the best way to eat them was with a pair of scizzors.
Started with the Swiss army knife (on a separate Alaska trip, the head
of the French nuclear program was sitting at a table with us and he also
pulled out his Swiss army knife: we could agree on one thing!). I
thought our burritos were a little starchy. Oh, and lobster tail!
And Bob baked fresh bread, too.
Naw the things most people wanted didn't require a pressure cooker:
freshies: lettuce, tomatoes, etc.
Alan Dove
On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Matthew . Dunne wrote:
>
> On 14 Jul 1997, Mike2678 wrote:
>
> >
> > I still fail to see WHY would anyone in thier right mnd wish to carry an
> > additional 4 lbs backpacking for a pressure cooker when it is so
> > unnecessary. The benefits just do not exceed the disadvantage of the
> > weight, and volume.
Attribution, folks, attribution. I DID NOT SAY THIS. I replied to it,
arguing that the additional weight WOULD be justified under some
circumstances, then listed some of those circumstances.
Prabbit
I'd think if ANYONE had such an item, it would be Camp-Mor. They seem
to carry all the unusual and hard-to-find stuff.
-P
Paul Weiss
SOMEBODY said this ... it doesn't really matter who!
> > > I still fail to see WHY would anyone in their right mind wish to carry an
> > > additional 4 lbs backpacking for a pressure cooker when it is so
> > > unnecessary. The benefits just do not exceed the disadvantage of the
> > > weight, and volume.
>
Somebody out there is being mighty pompous when it comes to assuming that
his way is the right way and the only way. I would suggest that it is up
to the individual to judge whether the benefits of carrying the weight of
ANYTHING exceed the disadvantage of the extra weight and volume. Lots of
items come under the heading of luxuries that some people will carry and
other hikers will look upon with disdain ... pillows, chairs, books, a
bottle of liquor, a journal, fresh food, walking stick, camera, tarp,
stove, and on and on and on.
--
Cheers,
Paul Weiss
Backwater Trails: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/BWT/BWT.html
E-mail: cpw...@netaccess.on.ca
Personal Home Page: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/
Quote:"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."
"Does anal retentive have a hyphen?"
Art Doyle
mike...@aol.com (Mike2678) wrote:
>In article
><Pine.SUN.3.95L.97071...@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>, Alan
>Dove <ad...@columbia.edu> writes:
>
>>> At 4lbs, any weight savings with regards to fuel are at *best* a wash.
>>> Only the need for *extreme* water conservation (usually we carry all
>>> our water) makes this practical. If water sources were available
>>> during my trip, I doubt that we would use the pressure vessel.
>>
>>
>
>I still fail to see WHY would anyone in thier right mnd wish to carry an
>additional 4 lbs backpacking for a pressure cooker when it is so
>unnecessary. The benefits just do not exceed the disadvantage of the
>weight, and volume.
You're right, it's another cussed 4 lbs. But consider what "carrying
all water" really means. All water for drinking, all water for
washing. Ever try to *really* clean utensils with a few drops of
water? A pressure cooker's main advantage is that it can serve as an
autoclave. You dump the utensils in the pot, add a few ounces of
water, fire it up....and everything is sterile.
The need to clean can be avoided these days through the careful
selection of packaged goods taken during the trip. But these
materials don't come cheap, and for a multi party trip, 4 lbs is not
an excessive load (4lbs/4 people= 1lb/person).
I would like to see a food poisoning thread started in this NG. I
suspect that this maledy is all too common in the backcountry.
Best,
Art
Alan Dove
On Sun, 20 Jul 1997, Art Doyle wrote:
<snipped excerpt MIS-ATTRIBUTED to me>
> You're right, it's another cussed 4 lbs. But consider what "carrying
> all water" really means. All water for drinking, all water for
> washing. Ever try to *really* clean utensils with a few drops of
> water? A pressure cooker's main advantage is that it can serve as an
> autoclave. You dump the utensils in the pot, add a few ounces of
> water, fire it up....and everything is sterile.
Yep, I agree completely. I suggested purifying water this way, too.
> I would like to see a food poisoning thread started in this NG. I
> suspect that this maledy is all too common in the backcountry.
It's come up in one way or another a few times. Basically, if you pack
high-protein foods and leave them in unsealed containers in your pack,
you're probably asking for trouble (though some items, like highly-spiced
and dried sausage, are pretty well-preserved). Leave the sliced turkey
breast at home unless you're hiking in refrigerator-temperature weather or
cooler.
One other important point: some organisms give you food poisoning because
of proteins they leave on the food, and even cooking won't destroy these
toxins reliably. Cooking food that's gone bad won't necessarily make it
safe to eat, so it's best to make sure it doesn't go bad in the first
place.
Eugene Miya
Look,
if you are looking for one, this is why Customer Service representatives
at stores like REI exist. They get paid to paid you the obscure stuff.
It's there. Let them do the leg work.
Michael Edelman
Someone wrote:
> > > I still fail to see WHY would anyone in thier right mnd wish to carry an
> > > additional 4 lbs backpacking for a pressure cooker when it is so
> > > unnecessary. The benefits just do not exceed the disadvantage of the
> > > weight, and volume.
The benifits come into play at high altitude, where the lowered boiling
point of water prevents you from getting it hot enough to cook with.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Edelman m...@pass.wayne.edu
Wayne State University voice: (313) 577-0742
Computing & Information Technology fax: (313) 577-8787
Academic Computing & Support Services
Detroit MI 48070 http://www.pass.wayne.edu/~mje/home.html
Michael Edelman
Oevna wrote:
>
> On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:11:52 -0400, Michael Edelman
> <m...@pass.wayne.edu> wrote:
>
> >Someone wrote:
> >
> >> > > I still fail to see WHY would anyone in thier right mnd wish to carry an
> >> > > additional 4 lbs backpacking for a pressure cooker when it is so
> >> > > unnecessary. The benefits just do not exceed the disadvantage of the
> >> > > weight, and volume.
> >
> >The benifits come into play at high altitude, where the lowered boiling
> >point of water prevents you from getting it hot enough to cook with.
> >
> with an extremely long extension cord so you can have freshly baked
> bread are as equally logical!
It's certainly amazing how some people are so proud at showing off their
ignorance; no doubt the above poster has no problem heating water to
100C at 27,000'.
If you read the literature of mountaineering, you find that pressure
cookers are common when cooking has to be done at high altitudes. Chris
Bonnington's books often mention them, and Bonnington is no slouch at
mountaineering.
-- mike
Lloyd Bowles
> >
> >The benifits come into play at high altitude, where the lowered boiling
> >point of water prevents you from getting it hot enough to cook with.
> >
> Ahh, yes of course! And the benefits of bringing up an electric oven
> with an extremely long extension cord so you can have freshly baked
> bread are as equally logical!
That extra 4 pounds of pressure cooker can save cooking time & fuel,
especially at high altitudes. If it saves more than 4 pounds of fuel it
is worth it.
I'm sure Robert Perkins (Into the Great Solitude) saved much more than 4
pounds of fuel during his 72 day trip down the Back River N.W.T. Maybe
he even saved enough weight to make up for his lawn ornament flamingo &
seven hats.
Tim Hewitt
A sizable number of canoeists carry pressure cookers as well as ovens of one
type or another (reflector, dutch, sit-on-stove). I have carried both for
years while paddling, yet only occasionally when backpacking. A pressure
cooker can make all the difference in cuisine while in the backwoods. I'll
cook many more interesting dishes when I have it than when I do not. If you
are into boiling water dinners, don't bother. If you like to eat really good
food in the woods, try it.
-Tim
--
Tim Hewitt- Webmaster
Wooden Canoe heritage Association
http://www.wcha.org
Doug Roussel
Oevna (oora...@fznegg.pbz) wrote:
: >
: >The benifits come into play at high altitude, where the lowered boiling
: >point of water prevents you from getting it hot enough to cook with.
: >
: Ahh, yes of course! And the benefits of bringing up an electric oven
: with an extremely long extension cord so you can have freshly baked
: bread are as equally logical!
If someone feels that an extra 4 lbs is a fair price to pay for
faster cooking times and lower fuel consumption, what's the big
deal? Most folks probably take along a couple extra pounds of gear
that they feel will make their trip a little more enjoyable.
What are we doing, having a pack size contest or something?
"Betcha mine's smaller that yours. Is not! Is too! Is not!" ;-)
Mike2678
In article <5rqt2n$lor$2...@AesSedai.wes.army.mil>, do...@freud.inst.com (Doug
Roussel) writes:
>If someone feels that an extra 4 lbs is a fair price to pay for
>faster cooking times and lower fuel consumption, what's the big
>deal? Most folks probably take along a couple extra pounds of gear
>that they feel will make their trip a little more enjoyable.
>What are we doing, having a pack size contest or something?
>"Betcha mine's smaller that yours. Is not! Is too! Is not!" ;-)
If you're working at 10K+ with a full pack of 50 to 60 # x country you
want to enjoy the experience as much as possible. Hauling another 4 # is
not my idea of fun.
Doug Roussel
Mike2678 (mike...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <5rqt2n$lor$2...@AesSedai.wes.army.mil>, do...@freud.inst.com (Doug
: Roussel) writes:
No, but some people might not mind it as much as you. Also, maybe the
net load increase isn't the full 4 pounds, if you consider fuel savings, and
if the cooker allows you to leave other cooking gear behind. It may also
have a positive effect on morale, if it helps add variety to your diet
by allowing you to cook meals that would be too much trouble to bother with
otherwise.
Mark A Parsons
OK without getting sucked into the debate of whether could/should use such, I
do confess to a bit of interest. Where would one find a backpacking pressure
cooker? Or do people just use small models designed for home use?
-m.
Alan Dove
Before it got buried in the "who would need this?" nonsense, the answer
that seemed to come up was that your local housewares store is a good
source, or you can call REI and talk to customer service. I suspect that
the latter would go to their local housewares store, then ship you the
cooker they got for twice the price, but that's just a guess. The best
one I found seemed to weigh about 3-4 pounds (didn't have a scale with me)
and cost about $40 at Lechter's.