Fuel canister adapter???
Bruce W.1
butane/propane fuel for my MSR Superfly stove. These canisters are not
always easy to find in stores.
The big green Coleman propane bottles are very easy to find at
drugstores and Wally World.
Does anyone know of a valve adapter, to put an MSR stove onto a Coleman
fuel bottle?
Thanks for your help.
y_p_w
On my recent trip I found myself shopping for Coleman-style propane at
Wal-Mart in the Pacific NW, and I did notice some of the French-made
Coleman canisters with the Lindal valve at many locations. These were
the propane/butane ones and not the propane/isobutane ones like from
MSR, Snowpeak, Primus, or Brunton.
That being said, every Wal-Mart is different with prices and
occasionally inventory. I'm not finding the unscented Wet Ones
Outdoors wipes that I've only seen at Wal-Mart in most stores.
Those canisters are bulky and heavy. I used them on a car camping
trip, and they weigh at least a lb empty.
Bruce W.1
Yes they are heavy. But weight while bicycle touring is not as big of a
concern as it is for backpacking. My whole bike with panniers, gear,
and water weighs about 100 lbs..
y_p_w
Wow - I once weighed my bike (Columbus SL tubing) and thought it was
heavy at just under 23 lbs.
I noted the Coleman propane/butane canisters I saw at Wal-Mart.
Coleman owns the French company Camping Gaz, and I'm guessing that
they're the ones that make the Coleman labelled Lindal valve
cartridges.
I went camping myself over the past few weeks with a Target Greatland
brand (made by Stansport) dual-burner propane stove that took those
Coleman-style bottles. The large size meant it lasted quite a while
although my wife and I went through maybe 1-1/2 bottles. These are
definitely cheap, last a while, and don't suffer from preferred
propane vaporization like the mixtures do in colder temps. I left my
Snow Peak Gigapower (w/igniter) and MSR PocketRocket stoves at home.
Maybe another suggestion I have would be to get a couple of the extra
large 450g Primus canisters with the Lindal valve. One of these has
slightly more fuel than one of the 16.4 oz Coleman-style bottles and
should weigh less. You could probably pack about two of them in a
little more space than the standard Coleman bottles. They're about $8
each though. I'd think one of them might be easier to pack/carry than
two of the normal 220-230g canisters.
Stormin Mormon
some contacts, before the trip. Or, get a propane stove instead. The Coleman
16 ouncers are in most stores. Near me, even grocery stores have them,
though typically 3.99 per canister.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:AIXsk.20404$89....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
Stormin Mormon
reason, the valves usually leak after refil. The tank is 12 ounces, empty.
I know of no adaptor for what you ask. Wish I did, it's excellent idea.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"y_p_w" <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f6d33a47-8efd-41e6...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
y_p_w
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I bought the refil adaptor for 16 ounce propane cylinders. For whatever
> reason, the valves usually leak after refil. The tank is 12 ounces, empty.
>
> I know of no adaptor for what you ask. Wish I did, it's excellent idea.
Isn't refilling those canisters kind of illegal? Or at least illegal
to transport said canisters over any public road. The tool sounds
like drug paraphernalia - perhaps not illegal to have, but ultimately
illegal to use in the intended fashion. Those canisters are so cheap,
so why would anyone want to refill them if the process is unreliable?
My research indicates that the walls aren't thick enough to take
continued refilling and that some people have ended up with large
clouds of propane that sometimes ignites.
As hooking up propane to a mixture fuel canister stove...I'd think for
any reasonable temperature that canister stove devices should be able
to handle the pressure. Still - it sort of defeats the purpose of
having a small stove using a small canister.
BTW - Coleman now has these "Green Key" things that are inserted into
the cylinder valve. The valve then sticks open and is essentially
marked as being fully emptied/depressurized and safe for recycling or
disposal. I've only seen them sold on new Coleman cylinders at a few
sporting goods stores (Big 5 so far) but they're supposed to have 6-
packs of these things for 99 cents if I could find them.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=3000000415&categoryid=27203
Bruce W.1
My research indicates that MSR butane canisters, and other Lindal valve
type canisters, have a pressure of about 15 psi. Whereas 1 lb. Coleman
propane bottles have about 140 psi. So putting an MSR stove onto a
propane bottle really should use a pressure regulator.
I haven't found a high pressure regulator small enough to be suitable
for the job.
So here's what I'm going to try. I will buy a propane torch (with
valve), cut off the torch tip, and attach a Lindal valve which I cut
from an MSR canister.
The valve on the MSR Super Fly stove will be left wide open, and
pressure will be regulated by the torch valve.
This should work, but the flame might need to be closely monitored.
If too much pressure is fed to the stove then it will probably blow the
flame right off the burner and extinguish, or explode?
This is not something I would want to use all the time. It is an
emergency measure until a Lindal canister can be purchased.
Will report on the results.
y_p_w
> y_p_wwrote:
> > On Aug 27, 5:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"
> > <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> I bought the refil adaptor for 16 ounce propane cylinders. For whatever
> >> reason, the valves usually leak after refil. The tank is 12 ounces, empty.
>
> >> I know of no adaptor for what you ask. Wish I did, it's excellent idea.
>
> > Isn't refilling those canisters kind of illegal? Or at least illegal
> > to transport said canisters over any public road. The tool sounds
> > like drug paraphernalia - perhaps not illegal to have, but ultimately
> > illegal to use in the intended fashion. Those canisters are so cheap,
> > so why would anyone want to refill them if the process is unreliable?
> > My research indicates that the walls aren't thick enough to take
> > continued refilling and that some people have ended up with large
> > clouds of propane that sometimes ignites.
>
> > As hooking up propane to a mixture fuel canister stove...I'd think for
> > any reasonable temperature that canister stove devices should be able
> > to handle the pressure. Still - it sort of defeats the purpose of
> > having a small stove using a small canister.
>
> > BTW - Coleman now has these "Green Key" things that are inserted into
> > the cylinder valve. The valve then sticks open and is essentially
> > marked as being fully emptied/depressurized and safe for recycling or
> > disposal. I've only seen them sold on new Coleman cylinders at a few
> > sporting goods stores (Big 5 so far) but they're supposed to have 6-
> > packs of these things for 99 cents if I could find them.
>
>
> ===================================================================
>
> My research indicates that MSR butane canisters, and other Lindal valve
> type canisters, have a pressure of about 15 psi. Whereas 1 lb. Coleman
> propane bottles have about 140 psi. So putting an MSR stove onto a
> propane bottle really should use a pressure regulator.
>
> I haven't found a high pressure regulator small enough to be suitable
> for the job.
>
> So here's what I'm going to try. I will buy a propane torch (with
> valve), cut off the torch tip, and attach a Lindal valve which I cut
> from an MSR canister.
>
> The valve on the MSR Super Fly stove will be left wide open, and
> pressure will be regulated by the torch valve.
>
> This should work, but the flame might need to be closely monitored.
>
> If too much pressure is fed to the stove then it will probably blow the
> flame right off the burner and extinguish, or explode?
>
> This is not something I would want to use all the time. It is an
> emergency measure until a Lindal canister can be purchased.
>
> Will report on the results.
Again - that's a lot of effort for something that may not be advisable
because of the pressure differences you stated. Jury rigging
something could result in any number of things from singed hair to 3rd
degree burns. You might not be very popular with campground neighbors
if you burn down a table or tree.
I wasn't sure about the pressure, but now that I think of it the stove
I used earlier this month did note "16 PSI" on the neck of the
connector to the cylinder. Must have been regulated to prevent it
from flaring up. I looked it up, and apparently propane pressure (as
with any other liquefied gas) is heavily dependent on temperature. In
my use the pressure might have varied from 70-1140 PSI.
Seriously though - consider bringing along a few of the 450g Primus
canisters. It should last you plenty long. If you're going to be
near any major cities, maybe map out where there are REI stores that
will stock several brands of the Lindal valve cartridges.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/primus_powergas_450g_canister_orwm08.html
You
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'd think about either staging replacement canisters along the way. Make
> some contacts, before the trip. Or, get a propane stove instead. The Coleman
> 16 ouncers are in most stores. Near me, even grocery stores have them,
> though typically 3.99 per canister.
One of the things one could do is buy a 10# BBQ Grill Tank, and Northern
Tool sells an Adapter that fills the small Canisters from the BBQ Tank.
You pack the Tank to your Resupply Site, and then refill your Hiking
Canisters from the Tank.
Steven
premiums paid..
"Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:jJgtk.11602$vn7....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
y_p_w
> reason, the valves usually leak after refil. The tank is 12 ounces, empty.
Did a little more checking on this. Apparently not illegal per se,
but transporting the result on any road is consequently illegal.
The reasons given that these things were pretty much disposable were:
1) The valves aren't made of the most durable materials. They're
known to leak as you found out. Continued attempts to refill may
result in complete failure.
2) The cylinder steel isn't terribly corrosion resistant. Refillable
canisters are. Refill propane contains enough oxygen and moisture to
cause corrosion from the inside out of a disposable cylinder that was
factory filled with dry propane. I've seen rust on the outside, but
that's usually OK since you can usually tell if it's minor.
3) They get easily overfilled from a higher pressure tank. Some
people seem to chill the disposable cylinder first to aid in the
filling. Might induce thermal stresses on the valve as well as expose
to moisture in the freezer.
Stormin Mormon
> I bought the refil adaptor for 16 ounce propane cylinders. For whatever
> reason, the valves usually leak after refil. The tank is 12 ounces, empty.
>
> I know of no adaptor for what you ask. Wish I did, it's excellent idea.
Isn't refilling those canisters kind of illegal? Or at least illegal
to transport said canisters over any public road.
SM: It was several years ago. My sense was that it was mostly a problem for
interstate commerce.
The tool sounds
like drug paraphernalia - perhaps not illegal to have, but ultimately
illegal to use in the intended fashion.
SM: So true.
Those canisters are so cheap,
so why would anyone want to refill them if the process is unreliable?
SM: Canisters are three bucks a pound, and propane is about a buck a pound.
Only takes a couple refils to pay for itself. And, you don't know that the
process is unreliable until you try it. I've heard the original equipment
Coleman canisters seal a lot better. I was doing Ozark Trail.
My research indicates that the walls aren't thick enough to take
continued refilling and that some people have ended up with large
clouds of propane that sometimes ignites.
SM: Got a link? If it's that dangerous, I'd like to know.
As hooking up propane to a mixture fuel canister stove...I'd think for
any reasonable temperature that canister stove devices should be able
to handle the pressure. Still - it sort of defeats the purpose of
having a small stove using a small canister.
SM: And propane may cook differently than a propane / butane mix.
BTW - Coleman now has these "Green Key" things that are inserted into
the cylinder valve. The valve then sticks open and is essentially
marked as being fully emptied/depressurized and safe for recycling or
disposal. I've only seen them sold on new Coleman cylinders at a few
sporting goods stores (Big 5 so far) but they're supposed to have 6-
packs of these things for 99 cents if I could find them.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=3000000415&categoryid=27203
SM: I've never heard of such.
Stormin Mormon
an orifice. Please open the valve on the stove wide open, and then regulate
the flame with the propane torch valve. It would be very easy to over
pressure the valve if you close the stove, and leave the torch open.
Propane and butane pressures vary with temperature. Though, propane is
noticably higher.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:jJgtk.11602$vn7....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
Stormin Mormon
Did a little more checking on this. Apparently not illegal per se,
but transporting the result on any road is consequently illegal.
The reasons given that these things were pretty much disposable were:
1) The valves aren't made of the most durable materials. They're
known to leak as you found out. Continued attempts to refill may
result in complete failure.
SM: Leak check just means to fill the valve with water and see if the
propane is bubbling out. What you don't need, more water in the valve.
2) The cylinder steel isn't terribly corrosion resistant. Refillable
canisters are. Refill propane contains enough oxygen and moisture to
cause corrosion from the inside out of a disposable cylinder that was
factory filled with dry propane. I've seen rust on the outside, but
that's usually OK since you can usually tell if it's minor.
Sm: I've not heard of dry versus wet propane. Nor oxygen in the proapne.
But, who can tell?
3) They get easily overfilled from a higher pressure tank. Some
people seem to chill the disposable cylinder first to aid in the
filling. Might induce thermal stresses on the valve as well as expose
to moisture in the freezer.
SM: The instructions do say to chill the tank before attempting to fill.
"higher pressure tank" is necessary. By chilling the small tank, you reduce
the internal pressure. Then, the propane travels from warmer (higher
pressure) to colder, with lower pressure. It's necessary to invert the
source tank, so you're feeding liquid. And then weight the tank you just
filled, to see if it's properly or over filled.
y_p_w
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I bought the refil adaptor for 16 ounce propane cylinders. For whatever
> > reason, the valves usually leak after refil. The tank is 12 ounces, empty.
>
> > I know of no adaptor for what you ask. Wish I did, it's excellent idea.
>
> Isn't refilling those canisters kind of illegal? Or at least illegal
> to transport said canisters over any public road.
>
> SM: It was several years ago. My sense was that it was mostly a problem for
> interstate commerce.
Clearly stated on the cylinder label. Says something about 5 years
and/or $500,000 fine.
"5. Never refill this cylinder. Refilling may cause explosion. Federal
law forbids transportation if refilled - penalty up to $500,000 and 5
years imprisonment. (49 U.S.C. 5124)"
> The tool sounds
> like drug paraphernalia - perhaps not illegal to have, but ultimately
> illegal to use in the intended fashion.
>
> SM: So true.
>
> Those canisters are so cheap,
> so why would anyone want to refill them if the process is unreliable?
>
> SM: Canisters are three bucks a pound, and propane is about a buck a pound.
> Only takes a couple refils to pay for itself. And, you don't know that the
> process is unreliable until you try it. I've heard the original equipment
> Coleman canisters seal a lot better. I was doing Ozark Trail.
Don't know who makes them. I'd be surprised if there were any
difference in quality. They looked practically identical to me. I've
seen Wal-Mart stores with 2-pks of the Coleman cylinders for $4.50,
but again prices are variable.
> My research indicates that the walls aren't thick enough to take
> continued refilling and that some people have ended up with large
> clouds of propane that sometimes ignites.
>
> SM: Got a link? If it's that dangerous, I'd like to know.
The thing I did read is that these are factory filled with dry
propane, and the cylinder material isn't made for long-term corrosion
resistance. That was the claim made by people who were trained in
propane refilling - that most refilled propane tends to have moisture
in there. Pick up any Coleman cylinder at Wal-Mart and look at the
neck where the paint has no coverage. There's usually a thin layer of
rust.
> As hooking up propane to a mixture fuel canister stove...I'd think for
> any reasonable temperature that canister stove devices should be able
> to handle the pressure. Still - it sort of defeats the purpose of
> having a small stove using a small canister.
>
> SM: And propane may cook differently than a propane / butane mix.
Perhaps.
> BTW - Coleman now has these "Green Key" things that are inserted into
> the cylinder valve. The valve then sticks open and is essentially
> marked as being fully emptied/depressurized and safe for recycling or
> disposal. I've only seen them sold on new Coleman cylinders at a few
> sporting goods stores (Big 5 so far) but they're supposed to have 6-
> packs of these things for 99 cents if I could find them.
>
> http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=30000...
>
> SM: I've never heard of such.
Seems like a neat trick. Seriously though - I wouldn't want to keep
one of these things around long term. I've seen them rust and if
they're around long enough I'd think they would get unreliable and/or
dangerous.
Bruce W.1
control with the propane torch valve. I ran it for a half-hour. The
MSR valve was wide open.
I have not kicked it over to see what happens when it falls, yet.
Picture:
http://www.didah.com/adapter.jpg
y_p_w
Looks interesting. I'd also note that the comments on refilling are
tangential as you've never noted anything about refilling the
canisters yourself. I'd think what' you're doing isn't illegal like
transporting refilled disposable canisters, but there's got to be some
risk in using a jury-rigged device.
The biggest problem I see is that your setup looks way too tall and
potentially unstable. At the very least you should consider getting a
plastic base that attaches to the bottom of the cylinder. Century
Tool includes them with their single-burner propane stoves (I've got
one). I don't use that one any more as I've kicked it around a few
too many times, the valve isn't continuous and clicks at discrete
levels (I can't get a decent simmer unless I hold the knob where I
want it). and don't like how unstable the setup is. These bases
(different brands) are also sold separately for anywhere from $3 to
$5.
If you think you'll need to use 16.4 oz disposable propane, why not
just get a single-burner propane stove? These things are like $20 to
$25. There are a few compact ones (Coleman PowerPack is one) that sit
on the surface and use a remote cylinder attached via a regulated
tube. They are kind of heavy though, but if you can fit it in your
pannier I don't think it's a problem.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=5453A700&categoryid=2010
Bruce W.1
Yes it is tall and unstable. This problem can be remedied with rocks or
logs.
This is an emergency device, that hopefully will never be used.
One more test is in order to see what happens when it falls over and
liquid propane reaches the burner. I have no idea what will happen.
I have a couple of the single burner propane stoves, and plastic bases.
But as a matter of course, this stuff is too heavy for backpacking or
bicycle touring.
Fully-loaded bicycle touring basically uses backpacking gear but in
panniers instead of in a backpack. And the part I really like is the
ability to shop at grocery stores, drink beer nightly, go to
restaurants, or stay in hotels when the weather is unpleasant. You
can't do this in the backcountry. 8^)
y_p_w
> Fully-loaded bicycle touring basically uses backpacking gear but in
> panniers instead of in a backpack. And the part I really like is the
> ability to shop at grocery stores, drink beer nightly, go to
> restaurants, or stay in hotels when the weather is unpleasant. You
> can't do this in the backcountry. 8^)
Maybe not drink beer nightly, but there are high-alcohol content
beverages known as "distilled spirits". I can even fit a Nalgene
flask w/ 12 YO Scotch whisky in a bear canister. ;-)
Bruce W.1
For backpacking I carry Everclear grain alcohol. However I prefer beer.
My son and I just did a bicycle tour from Buffalo to Albany, NY along
the Erie Canal. 450 miles.
Originally we brought along one medium size butane canister. A couple
days into the trip it developed a valve leak and was gone. The next day
we diverted 20 miles to a Bass Pro store. There we bought another
medium size canister, and a tiny one for backup.
Two days later someone left a pannier pocket unzipped. Apparently the
medium size canister fell out somewhere along the way. We backtracked a
few miles but could not find it.
The tiny backup canister lasted a few days and we were unable to find
any more. On the second to last day it was empty. Staying in a hotel
on the last night negated this problem. The fact was that we were out
of fuel.
Sure we could have cooked over a fire but that can be messy. My new
adapter will prevent this in the future.
PatOConnell
> In article <JcWsk.18991$cW3....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> "Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote:
>
>> On a recent bicycle tour I came very close to running out of
>> butane/propane fuel for my MSR Superfly stove. These canisters are not
>> always easy to find in stores.
>
> or convenient as canister stoves but the alcohol is easily available in
> hardware stores and some gas stations.
Alcohol has a very low BTU content. That's what the problem is with
trying to cook meals with Trangia stoves and Sterno.
Coleman Fuel is a lot easier to find, and contains more energy. That is
the advantage with MSR and Svea gasoline stoves.
If you really like canister stoves, resign yourself to carrying more
canisters.
y_p_w
> > "Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote:
>
> >> On a recent bicycle tour I came very close to running out of
> >> butane/propane fuel for my MSR Superfly stove. These canisters are not
> >> always easy to find in stores.
>
> > You might want to consider alcohol stoves. They are not as fast burning
> > or convenient as canister stoves but the alcohol is easily available in
> > hardware stores and some gas stations.
>
> Alcohol has a very low BTU content. That's what the problem is with
> trying to cook meals with Trangia stoves and Sterno.
And output control. That's the real killer with most potential users.
> Coleman Fuel is a lot easier to find, and contains more energy. That is
> the advantage with MSR and Svea gasoline stoves.
You mean the Coleman white gas or propane? There's more energy per
unit weight for propane compared to alcohol. Per unit volume is
almost the same. And alcohol can be safely carried in a lightweight
plastic bottle.
> If you really like canister stoves, resign yourself to carrying more
> canisters.
It's not really a problem. Canister stoves are the most convenient
and easiest to operate. I've yet to have one leak, gum up, or fail to
light with a match. There are always tradeoffs, and some people don't
want to overhaul their white gas or multifuel stoves when they clog.
Or deal with gummed-up white gas from storage.
PatOConnell
> On Aug 31, 10:38 am, PatOConnell <gypkap.figureit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> TH O wrote:
>>> In article <JcWsk.18991$cW3.17...@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
>>> "Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote:
>>>> On a recent bicycle tour I came very close to running out of
>>>> butane/propane fuel for my MSR Superfly stove. These canisters are not
>>>> always easy to find in stores.
>>> You might want to consider alcohol stoves. They are not as fast burning
>>> or convenient as canister stoves but the alcohol is easily available in
>>> hardware stores and some gas stations.
>> Alcohol has a very low BTU content. That's what the problem is with
>> trying to cook meals with Trangia stoves and Sterno.
>
> And output control. That's the real killer with most potential users.
>
>> Coleman Fuel is a lot easier to find, and contains more energy. That is
>> the advantage with MSR and Svea gasoline stoves.
>
> You mean the Coleman white gas or propane? There's more energy per
> unit weight for propane compared to alcohol. Per unit volume is
> almost the same. And alcohol can be safely carried in a lightweight
> plastic bottle.
Any alcohol (by definition) has an OH radical on it that is like
carrying along a molecule of water. That's why alcohol doesn't put out
as much heat per mole as hydrocarbons like Coleman fuel. Avoid methyl
alcohol as a fuel--toxic. Denatured ethyl alcohol is safer. Personally,
I'd carry alcohol in a metal fuel bottle.
>> If you really like canister stoves, resign yourself to carrying more
>> canisters.
>
> It's not really a problem. Canister stoves are the most convenient
> and easiest to operate. I've yet to have one leak, gum up, or fail to
> light with a match. There are always tradeoffs, and some people don't
> want to overhaul their white gas or multifuel stoves when they clog.
> Or deal with gummed-up white gas from storage.
Well, Coleman fuel has a reasonably decent shelf life, but like any
other hydrocarbon, gets gummy (long chain hydrocarbons) if it
evaporates. I'll guess shelf life of Coleman is about 2 to 3 years, but
that's just a guess. When I used a Svea, I emptied out the tank between
camping/hiking trips.
y_p_w
> y_p_wwrote:
> > On Aug 31, 10:38 am, PatOConnell <gypkap.figureit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> TH O wrote:
> >>> In article <JcWsk.18991$cW3.17...@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> >>> "Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote:
> >>>> On a recent bicycle tour I came very close to running out of
> >>>> butane/propane fuel for my MSR Superfly stove. These canisters are not
> >>>> always easy to find in stores.
> >>> You might want to consider alcohol stoves. They are not as fast burning
> >>> or convenient as canister stoves but the alcohol is easily available in
> >>> hardware stores and some gas stations.
> >> Alcohol has a very low BTU content. That's what the problem is with
> >> trying to cook meals with Trangia stoves and Sterno.
>
> > And output control. That's the real killer with most potential users.
>
> >> Coleman Fuel is a lot easier to find, and contains more energy. That is
> >> the advantage with MSR and Svea gasoline stoves.
>
> > You mean the Coleman white gas or propane? There's more energy per
> > unit weight for propane compared to alcohol. Per unit volume is
> > almost the same. And alcohol can be safely carried in a lightweight
> > plastic bottle.
>
> Any alcohol (by definition) has an OH radical on it that is like
> carrying along a molecule of water. That's why alcohol doesn't put out
> as much heat per mole as hydrocarbons like Coleman fuel. Avoid methyl
> alcohol as a fuel--toxic. Denatured ethyl alcohol is safer. Personally,
> I'd carry alcohol in a metal fuel bottle.
I've seen alcohol sold in plastic bottles.
> >> If you really like canister stoves, resign yourself to carrying more
> >> canisters.
>
> > It's not really a problem. Canister stoves are the most convenient
> > and easiest to operate. I've yet to have one leak, gum up, or fail to
> > light with a match. There are always tradeoffs, and some people don't
> > want to overhaul their white gas or multifuel stoves when they clog.
> > Or deal with gummed-up white gas from storage.
>
> Well, Coleman fuel has a reasonably decent shelf life, but like any
> other hydrocarbon, gets gummy (long chain hydrocarbons) if it
> evaporates. I'll guess shelf life of Coleman is about 2 to 3 years, but
> that's just a guess. When I used a Svea, I emptied out the tank between
> camping/hiking trips.
Want to amend that? ;-)
Methane, propane, butane, and other short-chain hydrocarbons don't get
gummy. They just evaporate. It's the impurities that tend to gum up
white gas.
Ever tried using charcoal lighter fluid in a pinch?
Stormin Mormon
ago. Most of the boys dropped out after 100 miles or so, no big surprise. As
I remember, only one boy rode the whole length of the canal.
I hope your emergency adaptor serves, if needed in emergency. I'd sure
prefer a more low to the ground assembly.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Bruce W.1" <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:hsCtk.20608$89....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
Jon
On Aug 31, 8:21 pm, PatOConnell <gypkap.figureit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, Coleman fuel has a reasonably decent shelf life, but like any
>> other hydrocarbon, gets gummy (long chain hydrocarbons) if it
>> evaporates.
>
>gummy. They just evaporate. It's the impurities that tend to gum up
>white gas.
I must be lucky. I use my white gas stoves somewhat infrequently.
Once or twice a year. A gallon of Coleman fuel lasts me several
years. I haven't had "gumming" problems in either my Primus Nova
or my two-burner Coleman stove. I don't empty the leftover
fuel after use. The two-burner "big green" Coleman has gone
as much as two years with fuel left in the tank.
The Nova may benefit from the fact that it has no permanently
attached fuel tank. To turn it off when disconnecting the tank,
you turn the tank so that the fuel intake line is in the airspace
of the tank. The stove burns the fuel remaining in the fuel
line and the goes out.
>Ever tried using charcoal lighter fluid in a pinch?
In the right stove (multi-fuel capable) shouldn't be a problem.
There are a number of stoves that can burn a wide range
of fuels from kerosene to unleaded gasoline.
Jon
y_p_w
> "y_p_w" <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote
> On Aug 31, 8:21 pm, PatOConnell <gypkap.figureit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Well, Coleman fuel has a reasonably decent shelf life, but like any
> >> other hydrocarbon, gets gummy (long chain hydrocarbons) if it
> >> evaporates.
>
> >Methane, propane, butane, and other short-chain hydrocarbons don't get
> >gummy. They just evaporate. It's the impurities that tend to gum up
> >white gas.
>
> I must be lucky. I use my white gas stoves somewhat infrequently.
> Once or twice a year. A gallon of Coleman fuel lasts me several
> years. I haven't had "gumming" problems in either my Primus Nova
> or my two-burner Coleman stove. I don't empty the leftover
> fuel after use. The two-burner "big green" Coleman has gone
> as much as two years with fuel left in the tank.
I would think it would have pretty much the same problems that
internal combustion engines have. But pump fuel is produced to a
price point and has so many additives that help reduce that kind of
build-up.
> The Nova may benefit from the fact that it has no permanently
> attached fuel tank. To turn it off when disconnecting the tank,
> you turn the tank so that the fuel intake line is in the airspace
> of the tank. The stove burns the fuel remaining in the fuel
> line and the goes out.
Evaporating residue could be part of the potential problem.
> >Ever tried using charcoal lighter fluid in a pinch?
>
> In the right stove (multi-fuel capable) shouldn't be a problem.
> There are a number of stoves that can burn a wide range
> of fuels from kerosene to unleaded gasoline.
If you could get it, maybe something like pure octane would work great
in a multifuel stove. I always thought it was the larger fractions
(like olefins) from distilled petroleum fuels that tend to cause
combustion deposits as well as gum/varnish.
I thought that most multifuel stoves have cleaning/repair kits
available. I haven't used one, but am curious and maybe I'll try
one. The advantage of topping off a fuel bottle and cold weather
performance seems to make up for the weight and need to prime. They
do seem to be on the expensive side though (I only paid $50/$30 for my
SnowPeak Gigapower w/igniter + MSR PocketRocket).