Primus OmniFuel 328984 canister compatibility
David
said, in the text quoted below, that the SuperFly fits all fuel canisters.
Does the new 2002 Primus OmniFuel 328984 have the same capability?
http://www.primus.se/konsument/as_himalaya_e.htm
"The SuperFly's most distinctive feature is a first-of-its-kind multimount
that fits all self-sealing butane canisters. You can use canisters from
Primus, MSR, Peak 1, and others that have the ubiquitous screw mount, as
well as Camping Gaz canisters, which have a proprietary mount . . . I used
the stove with
(1) MSR's IsoPro isobutane/isopropane fuel,
(2) Peak 1's butane/propane canisters, and
(3) Camping Gaz's butane/propane mix."
http://www.backpacker.com/article/0,2646,2053,00.html
George Tyrebyter
>
> In May, 2001, Backpacker Magazine wrote about MSR's SuperFly stove. It
> said, in the text quoted below, that the SuperFly fits all fuel canisters.
> Does the new 2002 Primus OmniFuel 328984 have the same capability?
No.
The Superfly is supposed to work with all of the Lindal valve cartridges
AND the Camping Gaz canisters. I say "supposed to" because I have not
seen it used with a Gsz canister; I avoid Gaz stoves and fuel.
The screw-on Lindal valve canisters use the same self-sealing valve as
is used in aerosol cans (spray paint, etc.), with a threaded collar to
hold the stove connector on the canister. You can attach the stove
hose, or stove, and detach it repeatedly without the gas leaking. The
Gaz canister is punctured when you attach it, and you cannot remove the
stove until the gas is exhausted.
The Primus stove will not work with Gaz canisters.
--
George Tyrebyter
David
the
> stove until the gas is exhausted.
Thank you George. Perhaps you might not have been aware that Camping Gaz
makes a wide variety of cartridges, which contain different kinds of fuels
and blends. Although it is true that some Camping Gaz cartridges, once
punctured, must be used until exhausted, others are resealable, and still
others are refillable. See:
http://www.leisurequest.net/shop/Accessories/Other.html
So the question remains: Can the Primus OmniFuel stove work with Camping
Gaz resealable or refillable canisters, as well as all other resealable
brands?
George Tyrebyter
>
> So the question remains: Can the Primus OmniFuel stove work with Camping
> Gaz resealable or refillable canisters, as well as all other resealable
> brands?
And the answer remains: The Primus stove will not work with Gaz
canisters.
--
George Tyrebyter
David
> canisters.
Thank you George for the clarification. Will the Primus OmniFuel 328984
stove work with all other (non Camping Gaz) canisters, including MSR's
IsoPro isobutane/isopropane and Peak 1's butane/propane canisters?
Fox Americana
no valve at all, simply a dimple on the top which was punctured
by a needle and gasket when tightened onto the stove?
Are those even sold anymore?
I had one of the old-style "puncture the top of the can" Gaz
stoves and threw it out - deciding it was an explosion waiting for
an opportunity to happen.
At this point Gaz seem to have discontinued the old style
connections, now they've got a sort of hybrid lindal valve connection
which uses what appears to be the very same male connection pin
as the other lindal valve canisters, without threads.
This could be the canister which the MSR Superfly attaches to,
which others will not.
The Gaz stove-side connection has an expanding plastic mechanism
with jaws which move out as the threaded housing is turned,
clamping the can from the inside. It seems odd,
but it would seem to work, considering they're selling them.
The detail I did notice about the Gaz arrangement which concerns
me still, is unlike every other pocket stove I've seen,
there is no secondary gasket sealing the stove against the
top of that lip on the can - there appears to be only the lindal
valve preventing any leaks from the can when mated to the stove.
MSR (Superfly and all versions I've seen), and other stoves have
a wide rubber gasket on the stove, which appears to serve as a
backup seal in case gas were somehow able to leak out around the
stove-side connector when the stove and can are joined.
Even the threads on most canisters create a backup seal of sorts.
On the Gaz version there seems to be nothing at all, serving
to back-up the lone primary seal in the valve.
The Primus stoves (clearly) will not work with the Gaz canisters,
since the Primus Omni-Veri stoves all depend on threads for
connecting. The Superfly would seem logically compatible.
(haven't tried it)
David
I've done some further research, which should be not only be of interest to
owners of Primus OmniFuel stoves, but to owners of other gas "appliances"
(i.e., stoves, lanterns, etc.), as well.
The Camping Gaz compatibility issue
A number of people have claimed that Camping Gaz brand pierceable and
resealable cartridges are not compatible with gas appliances made by other
companies, including Primus.
In this regard, GoGas makes the 2130 resealable adapter, which is designed
to convert pierceable Camping Gaz cartridges (i.e., canisters) to the
Camping Gaz resealable cartridge standard. The threaded connection on this
adapter is described as being compatible with "the most popular brands of
threaded value type gas appliances." It is unclear whether this includes
the Primus OmniFuel 328984 stove. However, if the resealable adapter is
compatible, it would seem likely that Camping Gaz resealable and refillable
canisters would be compatible with most other small gas appliances using a
threaded connection, except those designed to burn propane only.
References:
GoGas leisure appliances operate directly from EN 417
threaded valve self-sealing gas
cartridges or from EN 417 Type 200 pierceable 190g gas
cartridges when used with the GoGas 2130 Resealable Adapter.
With the Go-System, users are assured of being able to fuel their
appliances wherever they are.The 2130 Resealable Adapter
has been tested and approved by BSI for use with the most popular
brands of Type 200 pierceable 190gram gas cartridges, in order
to ensure complete compatibility. BSI also approved the Adapter
for use with a number of the most popular brands of threaded value
type gas appliances, providing they comply with EN 521 and
carry the CE mark. See page 3 at:
http://www.btinternet.com/~dorothymagee/gas.pdf
Excerpts from Camping Gaz FAQ:
"Can the 2130 Resealable Adapter be used with other makes of pierceable gas
cartridges?"
Yes, providing the cartridges comply with the European Standard EN 417 Type
200.
"Can the 2130 Resealable Adapter be used with other manufactures self
sealing appliances?"
Yes if the appliances are manufactured to European Standard EN 521 and carry
the CE mark.
http://www.oswaldbailey.co.uk/pix/Info/gogas.htm
Photo of canister with adapter:
http://www.ctc-cambridge.org.uk/Stoves.html
Also, read these usenet posts:
From: Phil Cook (ph...@p-t-cook.nukeallspamfreeserve.co.uk)
Subject: Re: Best fuel source in French Alps...
Newsgroups: uk.rec.walking
Date: 2001-06-23
The adapter converts a piercable cartridge to a self sealing one. The
cartridge+adapter behaves exactly like a screw on cartridge and can be
removed from the stove, what you can't do is remove the cartridge from
the adapter. The gas is the same stuff.
From: alan.hughes3 (alan.h...@ntlworld.com)
Subject: Re: Resealable stove cartridges
Newsgroups: uk.rec.climbing, uk.rec.walking
Date: 2000-09-14 17:09:56 PST
> The magic number on the gas canister is EN417. All cylinders with this
> marking are interchangable.
Not so. There are two EN417 standards, type 2 and type 200. The threaded
cartridges are type 2, pierceable ones are type 200.
Be careful with the Go-Gas adapter. The threads strip rather too easily for
my liking.
The propane compatibility issue
In the United States, Canada and Mexico, 16.4 ounce propane cylinders are
widely sold from Kmart and Wal-Mart to small rural convenience stores. They
are more typically used with heavier car camping stoves than with small
backpacking stoves. Nevertheless, for those who prefer to burn compressed
gas, it would be a marvelous convenience to have the option of using these
cylinders with backpacking stoves, instead using a phone book and a map to
find (if you are lucky) a camping store selling a compatible canister.
However, there are a number of issues in using propane. These include the
fact that 1) propane cylinders operate at a higher pressure, 2) the
regulators on non-propane using backpacking stoves aren't designed to handle
this pressure and 3) the optimum fuel-air ratio for burning propane is
different. Although it might be possible to add an in-line propane pressure
regulator
(see page 2 at http://www.btinternet.com/~dorothymagee/gas.pdf),
to reduce the pressure, this is a dubious solution at best. Perhaps the
next step for the manufacturers of multi-fuel stoves is to design a propane
compatible system
References:
From: John Decker (John_...@newsguy.com)
Subject: Re: Propane with Primus multifuel?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 2001-01-21
If, however, you are referring to a 16.4oz cylinder to the best of my
knowledge, there
is no adapter for the Primus Himalaya and the standard Himalaya pressure
regulator/valve is not designed to operated safely on higher pressure 16.4oz
propane cylinder.
All backpacking LP gas canisters, as you know, are thin walled structured
cylinders containing gas mixtures of about 70% butane + 30% propane. There
is no thin
walled structured cylinder built to contain propane gas. Propane gas must be
contained
in heavy thick walled cylinders because of the increased pressure that this
gas
exerts on the cylinder wall.
From: Gary S. (Idon...@spam.net)
Subject: Re: butane/propane cartridge adapter
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 1999/01/26
> I have a Primus wildlife lantern designed for using with small
> butane/propane cartridges, Is there a adapter so I can use it with a
> Propane 16.4oz cylinder?
First, 90%butane/10%propane requires a different ratio with air to burn
properly than 100%propane, so the orifice would need to be replaced.
Propane (and other gases?) adapters:
http://www.campchef.com/accessories/adapters/index.php
FYIO, a cross-reference for liquid fuel names used world-wide is at:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml
David
significantly, Primus states that GoGas canisters are compatible with their
stoves. It appears likely that GoGas and resealable Camping Gaz canisters
have the same kind of connection. Needless to say, one Canadian retailer,
Le Baron, http://www.lebaron.ca/pdffiles/outdoors/go_sys.pdf, which sells
the Go System International line, says that the GoGas pierceable canister
with the 2130 adapter "fits all." Presumably, GoGas resealable canisters
have the same compatibility.
Skickat: den 29 Juli 2002
Dear David,
Thank you for your mail!
Our stoves work with all LPGas canisters that have the same thread
connnection as ours, for example MSR, SnowPeak, Markill, EpiGas, Coleman and
Go-Gas
With best regards
Helena Ullberg
Primus AB
Customer Service Coordinator - Consumer Division
Ph: +46 8 629 22 04
Fax:+46 8 629 22 66
Till: in...@primus.se
Chris Townsend
<n...@mindspring.com> writes
>I have just received the e-mail below from http://www.Primus.se. Most
>significantly, Primus states that GoGas canisters are compatible with their
>stoves. It appears likely that GoGas and resealable Camping Gaz canisters
>have the same kind of connection.
They don't. GoGas resealable canisters have the same connection as
Primus, MSR, Snowpeak, Markill and Coleman resealable canisters. GoGas
also make a piercable canister that fits the same stoves as the old
Campingaz piercable canisters. The resealable Campingaz CV 270 and 470
canisters have a unique connection. Only Campingaz CV and the MSR
Superfly stoves will fit CV canisters. No Primus stoves will fit these
canisters.
With the GoGas adapter you can use piercable canisters with stoves that
take Primus/MSR/GoGas resealable canisters. You can't use the adapter
with Campingaz CV canisters.
By the way, corporate changes mean GoGas have just changed their name to
Karrimor Go System. Their parent company Cadac will be known as Rekri8.
David
OmniFuel 328984 pressurized gas canister (i.e., cartridge) compatibility.
The OmniFuel, and its predecessor, the MultiFuel (MFS) 328883 (which was
derived from the liquid fuel-only VariFuel (LFS) 327883), are the only
camping stoves which can use both liquid fuels and pressurized gas
canisters. Thanks again for everyone's help.
By way of background, Primus states that there are four connection standards
for gas cartridges and that their stoves are compatible with the most
popular standard. In this regard, Helena....@Primus.se, confirmed today
that:
1) Primus gas stoves are compatible with European Standard EN 417 Type2
resealable cartridges;
2) The OmniFuel is manufactured to European Standard EN 521 and carries the
CE mark.
Note that according to alan.h...@ntlworld.com, there are two types of EN
417 cartridges; resealable cartridges are Type 2, while the pierceable ones
are Type 200.
> Resealable cartridge compatibility:
Earlier, Ms. Ulberg wrote that, "[o]ur stoves work with all LPGas canisters
that have the same thread
connection as ours, for example MSR, SnowPeak, Markill, EpiGas, Coleman and
Go-Gas." The resealable
Campingaz CV 270 and 470 canisters have a unique connection and are not
compatible.
> Pierecable cartridge compatibility:
Companies which market pierceable EN 417 Type 200 cartridges include GoGas
and Campingaz. A gas appliance, i.e., a lantern or stove, which is designed
to work with the EN 417 Type 2 standard, such as the OmniFuel, should fit
these cartridges, if the 2130 resealable adapter is used.
> Refillable cartridges compatibility:
In addition, at least one company, GoGas, makes refillable cartridges, which
are probably compatible with gas appliances which fit EN 417 Type2
resealable cartridges.
Relevant excerpts from the MultiFuel manual:
White gas (petrol)
Where there are cars there is fuel, and cars are almost everywhere. Petrol
is
the most inflammable of all liquid fuels. This means both advantages and
disadvantages.
Advantage: priming of the stove takes only a short while.
Disadvantage: petrol vapours are highly explosive (that's why it is
forbidden
to smoke at petrol stations). It is the most hazardous of all fuels.
Other disadvantages are the varying qualities and types of petrol. There is
a
so called catalytic gas / white gas (called lighter fluid gas at the chemist
's
drugstore, stove gas in the outdoor shop, or cleaning gas in the home and in
the pharmacy).
These are all varieties of petrol with just a few additives.
That's why they burn without any problems. Car petrol, on the other
hand, always contains additives for the protection of the engine.
These additives may cause health problems they are highly carcinogenic)
and may also harm the stoves by
blocking fuel lines or leaving ugly residue on the burner and the pots. If
you
have the choice between leaded and unleaded petrol, always use unleaded.
Finally, we have the problem of residuals clogging up the flow of the fuel -
i.e. dirt from the tanks in which the fuel has been transported. On our
expedition
to Pik Lenin in the Pamirs, this drove us almost to despair. A filter (if
necessary a piece of cloth with a fine mesh or a coffee filter) often helps.
Kerosene (USA) / Paraffin (UK)
This "rock oil" is being used all over the world as fuel for stoves and
lamps. For
this reason, you will find it in places where you don't find white gas
(petrol). Its
energy content is almost as high as that of white gas (petrol), but priming
takes
longer (you should use priming paste since paraffin produces a lot of soot).
Also, note that you should clean the jet regularly. Another disadvantage: it
smells
disgustingly. Spill just a few drops on your backpack, and you'll have to do
some serious washing! On the other hand, there is no danger of explosion.
Jet Fuel
Jet fuel is closely related to paraffin (UK) or kerosene (North America and
Australia). It is used for the jet engines of large aircrafts. You can use
it for
your Primus stove too, but if you have the choice between jet fuel and
paraffin/kerosene, we would recommend the latter.
Diesel
[Note: the MultiFuel can burn diesel].
Diesel is chemically related to paraffin and has two more disadvantages than
the latter: the energy content is lower, and the temperature needed to
vaporise
is even higher. For the new model of the Himalaya Varifuel (LFS) we have
therefore developed a new burner pan ("bell"). The new burner pan makes
it possible to run the varifuel (LFS) on diesel. However, I cannot recommend
diesel as the fuel of first choice. One advantage is evident: you find it
everywhere
around the world.
Alcohol / Spirits (do not use them)
The energy balance of alcohol is good enough for a solid beer belly but as
stove fuel it will try the patience of a saint... The cooking performance
index
of spirits (see table on page 50) is scarcely half that of Primus Liquid
Gas.
You should choose other fuels. The MFS or LFS burner would function with
spirits. At the moment, however, there is no sealing compound that is
resistant
against both alcohol and benzole (components of gas or paraffin).
Primus is doing research on a new material, but right now it doesn't exist.
So for now: hands off spirits!
Compatibility of fuel bottles and gas cartridges
All stove manufacturers recommend that their customers exclusively use fuel
bottles and cartridges of their own brand. Of course, you believe that this
is
a marketing stunt, which is quite understandable. But there is a safety
reason too! If the cartridge or the bottle and stove fit exactly together,
very
little can go wrong. That's why we recommend the use of Primus stoves only
with Primus fuel bottles or gas cartridges!
During my travels around the world, I have made the distressing experience
that you can't always and everywhere get the right cartridges and fuel
bottles
(if the fuel bottle has been lost or broken). If you have no other choice,
you may make an exception and try to screw the Primus pump into fuel bottles
from other manufacturers. It will work with most other bottles because
the Primus pump is made of aluminium. (But don't try it the opposite way:
pumps made of plastic will usually not fit into other brands' fuel bottles!)
Important:
1. All plastic bottles are out of the question - no matter, if the threads
fit or
not - since they will not endure the pressure.
2. Fill the bottle up only by three quarters full! This is due to the
construction
of the Primus pump. The fill line on orginal Primus fuel bottles is the only
appropriate line. All other marked lines on other bottles are not valid!
Gas cartridges
There are four connection systems that are distributed widely. Good news:
The Primus system that you are using is the most widely distributed system,
and it provides the highest safety standards thanks to the automatically
closing
security valve. You will find this system on the cartridges of most other
well known brands (though not on all). When you buy your stock of
cartridges,
bring the stove with you, and try it out right in the shop. Note: we are
using the optimum gas mixture in Primus Gas cartridges. It may happen that
although the connection to cartridges from other producers fits the Primus
stove, the performance is much lower.
Where do I buy fuel?
If you drive, fly, walk or cycle to the end of the world, you will naturally
ask if
you will find the right fuel when you get there. As an owner of the Primus
Himalaya MultiFuel, you have the most versatile stove on the market.
You have better buy your fuel in outdoor stores. If you cannot find one, try
hardware shops, ironmongers', petrol stations, pharmacies, drugstores
(medical
gas). If that doesn't work either,
Helpful links:
Primus OmniFuel:
http://www.primus.se/konsument/as_himalaya_e.htm
Primus MultiFuel & VariFuel manual:
http://www.primus.se/konsument/pdf/manual%20mfs%20eng.pdf
Lindall valves (notwithstanding that their design is used by cartridge
manufacturers, their web site
does not discuss these kinds of valves):
http://www.lindalvalve.com/lindal.html
GoGas International FAQ:
http://www.oswaldbailey.co.uk/pix/Info/gogas.htm
GoGas International a/k/a Karrimor Go System. Their parent company Cadac
will be known as Rekri8
See page 3 concerning GoGas compatibility of pierceable, resealable, and
refillable cartridge below:
http://www.btinternet.com/~dorothymagee/gas.pdf
Campingaz:
http://www.campingaz.com/
Cross-reference for liquid fuel names used world-wide is at:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml
Some retailers who sell the 2130 resealable adaptor for use with pierceable
cartridges:
C & W Berry Ltd.
Lancashire, England.
01772 431216
http://www.cwberry.com/epb2.01/08-plumbing/08-12-gas/gas-disposable.htm
enqu...@cwberry.com
Britains Aquatic Superstore Ltd
Bolton, England
01204 534343
http://www.anglingsupershop.co.uk/anglingshop/enter.html
in...@anglingsupershop.co.uk
Chumleigh Hardware Co.
Chulmleigh, England
(0)8708 48 49 50
http://www.chulmleigh-hardware.co.uk/maincentre.htm?rand=0.04657874
ord...@chulmleigh-hardware.co.uk
Le Baron
Markham, Mississauga, Ottawa and Montreal, Canada
800-567-3377
(minimum order outside of Canada is $100)
http://www.lebaron.ca/pdffiles/outdoors/go_sys.pdf
in...@lebaron.ca
I regret that I cannot be responsible for any errors. Use this information
at your own risk.
Chris Townsend
<n...@mindspring.com> writes
>Here's a summary of the information posted in this thread about Primus
>OmniFuel 328984 pressurized gas canister (i.e., cartridge) compatibility.
(Excellent summary snipped)
>
>> Refillable cartridges compatibility:
>
>In addition, at least one company, GoGas, makes refillable cartridges, which
>are probably compatible with gas appliances which fit EN 417 Type2
>resealable cartridges.
Are you sure about this? I'm not aware of any refillable cartridges
compatible with stoves that fit EN 417 cartridges.
I've just tested an Omni-Fuel, comparing it with six other EN 417
cartridge stoves, and it had the fastest boil time. I also found it
works well with white gas but is a little slow with kerosene.
David
which
> >are probably compatible with gas appliances which fit EN 417 Type2
> >resealable cartridges.
> Are you sure about this? I'm not aware of any refillable cartridges
> compatible with stoves that fit EN 417 cartridges.
Sorry about that. It's Campingaz which makes refillable cartridges,
specifically their 901/904/907 cartridges.
I doubt they are compatible with EN 417 Type 2 standard.
Does anyone know?
> I've just tested an Omni-Fuel, comparing it with six other EN 417
> cartridge stoves, and it had the fastest boil time. I also found it
> works well with white gas but is a little slow with kerosene.
I plan to use mine with the Primus 721720 windbreak and heat reflector
http://www.primus.se/konsument/as_access_e.htm#Windbreak
in conjunction with the 321101 Mountain Safety Research (MSR)
XPD cookset with the wrap-around heat exchanger.
http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/xpd.asp
It should be like cooking with dual turbochargers.