Grizzly Attack - bear spray doesn't work
Rob @ Backwoods
and due to the odds I'd never get rid of my canister, I'd like at least a
chance. I had a conversation with a cop a year or 2 ago who said that him
and his partner maced (with the equivallent to bear spray product) a guy and
it had no effect on him as he was mentally unballanced and at that moment
didnt have the capacity to feel pain, possibly because of his rage. I think
it's a given that bears, like all other animals do experience a certain
amount of attitude changes (fear, contentment, rage, etc.) and you'll rarely
find that circumstances of an attack are the same and so the reponses from a
bear who has been sprayed will also be different.
Now having said that, to say that bear deterrent spray doesnt work is a
pretty generalized comment. Most people are unfortunatly not aware that
there are different qualities of bear deterrent spray. One of the active
pepper ingredients is capcaisin, in Canada the manufacturer must (by law)
put the % of capcaisin that is contained in the canister, I am under the
understanding that this is not regulated in the US which is really too bad
since it is a good ingredient to compare spray qualities with.
I know of 2 products that have been banned from import into Canada from the
US because of "misslabeling" of capcaisin content, one product is made by
Phasar (Phaser?) that was labeled as containing 1% capcaisin and was only
tested to .23% capcaisin making it barely strong enough to stop a dog.
The bigger question is the quality of peppers used, the only product we
stock is one imported from Body Guard industries called Bear Guard (made in
Arizona). Bear Guard (labeled and tested to .75%)uses 3 types of high
quality hot pepper to make their deterrent spray and has been a standard up
here for years.
Rob
http://www.irl.bc.ca/backwoods.htm
C Adams wrote in message <72arbr$53j$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
>Here is an article that makes me question the effectiveness of the spray.
It
>made the bear run, but at another person.
>
>GRIZZLY ATTACK IN GLACIER NATIONAL PARK
> by National Park Service
>
> GLACIER NATIONAL PARK (NPS) -- Glacier National Park Chief
>Ranger Steve Frye has
> announced that at about 2 PM on Saturday, October 24 a couple
>was attacked and injured by a
> grizzly bear while hiking on the Cracker Lake Trail near Many
>Glacier Valley.
>
> The hikers, Tracy Pelland, 23, and her husband Matt Pelland,
26,
>of East Glacier, Montana, were
> about one mile from Cracker Lake when they encountered an
adult
>grizzly bear at close range. They
> first saw the bear at a distance of about 50 feet as it was
>running toward them.
>
> According to Frye, the bear attacked Mrs. Pelland first,
>knocking her to the ground and biting her
> left thigh. Mr. Pelland, trying to attract the bear's
attention
>away from his wife, ran approximately
> 20 feet off the trail and fell in thick subalpine fir. The
bear
>attacked, biting him in the left calf and
> clawing his right leg while he proceeded to spray the bear in
>the face with an entire can of pepper
> spray.
>
> The bear ran off and returned to Mrs. Pelland who was
retreating
>down a hill. She assumed the
> fetal position after the bear knocked her down. During this
>second attack, she sustained puncture
> wounds, lacerations, and abrasions primarily to her left side
>and shoulder as the bear rolled her
> over. She also received puncture wounds on her head. The
grizzly
>bear reportedly lay on her for a
> short time before leaving the immediate area. Following the
>attack, the bear left the vicinity and was
> not seen again.
>
> Mrs. Pelland told rangers she remained on the trail for about
30
>minutes, lying quietly until she was
> confident that the bear was no longer in the area. She
estimated
>the entire attack lasted less than a
> minute-and-a-half.
>
> Seeking help, Mr. Pelland bushwhacked down the creek until he
>found the Crack Lake Trail and
> hiked four-and-a-half miles back to the Many Glacier
developed
>area where he reported the incident
> to a Glacier Park Incorporated employee who then called 911.
>Park rangers responded and provided
> emergency medical treatment.
>
> At the same time, rangers were initiating helicopter and
ground
>search crews to find Mrs. Pelland.
> Just as rangers were preparing to depart Many Glacier for
>Cracker Lake, she walked out alone
> under her own power. After initial first aid treatment by
>rangers, both she and her husband were
> transported by ground ambulance to the Indian Health Service
>Hospital in Browning where they
> were treated and released Saturday night.
>
> The East Glacier couple is experienced in backcountry travel
and
>frequently hikes in Glacier
> National Park. Although they were making noise and paying
close
>attention for sign of bear activity,
> it appears, they surprised the bear at close range. The
Pellands
>also told rangers that there was no
> breeze Saturday afternoon.
>
> Frye stated that park rangers investigated the scene on
Sunday.
>October 25. A tan-colored grizzly
> bear believed to be the bear involved in the attack, and two
>light-colored cubs of the year were
> observed on the slopes above Cracker Lake.
>
> Based on observations during Sunday's investigation and the
>description of the attack, rangers are
> confident it was a defensive response by the female to
protect
>her cubs. Park officials are
> contemplating no management actions against the bears;
however,
>the trail to Cracker Lake will
> likely remain closed for the rest of the season.
>
> In responding to this incident, Blackfeet Tribal Police
assisted
>park rangers along with the Glacier
> County Sheriff's Department and the Browning ambulance.
>
> "All visitors are reminded that black and grizzly bears are
>still very active at this time of year.
> Efforts by bears this autumn to build fat reserves necessary
to
>sustain them through the winter are
> extremely important as well as more difficult because of the
>scarcity of natural food," said Frye.
>
> He concluded that park users, especially backcountry hikers
and
>campers, are also urged to check
> at ranger stations or with park rangers for current
information
>on bear activity, to follow all
> recommendations for hiking in bear country, and to report all
>bear sightings in a timely manner at
> ranger stations, visitor centers or with other park
personnel.
C Adams
LUCID41
visciously after being pepper sprayed.
Your title say's spray doesn't work, but I wonder about a couple of things.
First does anyone else have experiences with bears and spray. Second if the
woman also had spray and used it would the bear then have run off?
I would love to hear more discussion on this. Prior to taking my first trip in
Grizzly county, I educated myself as much as possible on bears and bear
encounters. I refuse to carry a gun(please don't turn this discussion into a
gun or no gun debate), but will read and learn anything I can to help me in
bear country.
I will be taking a long trip in Yosemite next summer by myself and had decided
I would take some pepper spray along. Seems like this is a good idea, at least
to have in case a bear either enters your tent at night or is attacking in
manure which would be fatal. It seems like it would be your last line of
defense, so not a bad thing to have.
I would love to hear more intelligent, informed, and reasonable discussion on
this!
Sam Thornton
referring to the Bear attack near Many Glacier in Montana two weeks
ago. The bear spray in that instance did work. He sprayed it and it
quit attacking him and left. unfortunately it didn't leave the scene
and found his wife and beat up on her for awhile. Pepper spray is not
meant to kill or maim the bear, it is just supposed to stop the
attack. It did and they are both alive and healing well.
--Sam Thornton
RAllenAL
dog, I have had my confidence shaken in the stuff. It had very little effect
on the dogs. I know I hit them as the white dog is now orange but they did not
break off their attack except briefly to rub face in the snow. Glad it wasn't
a bear.
Richard Allen
Pierre Levesque
It
>made the bear run, but at another person.
Can someone respond my simply writing a list of the different bear sprays
available?
Pierre Levesque
In order, which product would you recommend first?
Rob @ Backwoods wrote in message <72b0ip$qug$1...@news.mag-net.com>...
Margaret and Jeffrey and Molly
happens) which was attacking ours. It broke off immediately.
RAllenAL wrote:
--
What did the zen master say to the hot-dog vendor?
Make me one with everything.
GStigall
(some snipped)
> Prior to taking my first trip
>in
>Grizzly county, I educated myself as much as possible on bears and bear
>encounters.
That's excellent. BUT in addition (which you probably attended to as well, but
others are reading this too) - a critical fundamental of this topic (according
to bear biologists) is knowing the local bear conditions. Local bear conditions
vary with species, location, season and other factors. So always check in with
the local rangers to learn about the local conditions, proper food storage,
etc., etc.
>I will be taking a long trip in Yosemite next summer by myself and had
>decided
>I would take some pepper spray along. Seems like this is a good idea, at
>least
>to have in case a bear either enters your tent at night or is attacking in
>manure which would be fatal. It seems like it would be your last line of
>defense, so not a bad thing to have.
I have been camping & backpacking in the Yosemite region since 1956, and
volunteering there for many years. I have never heard the term "attacking in
manure". Is this what you meant to say?? If so, what does it mean???
Georgia Stigall
http://members.aol.com/gstigall/bears.htm
Rob @ Backwoods
consistency over the years are Bear Guard from Body Guard and Counter
Assault from Bushwacker (although Counter Assault has changed their
formulation and now uses a flamable propellent so you have to be carefull
using it around fires - are bears afraid of fire, could loose his fur and
leave from embarrasement?)
I had a customer tell me one time (don't quite believe it though) that his
forestry partner had emptied his canister of bear deterrent spray at a bear
but sprayed it into the wind, aparently they found him and the bear a few
min. later lying on the ground in close proximity both in pain. The only
thing I'd take fom that (and we warn alot of people of it) is that you have
to be aware of wind direction so it doesnt blow back at you.
Rob
http://www.irl.bc.ca/backwoods.htm
Pierre Levesque wrote in message ...
>Good informative post.
>
>In order, which product would you recommend first?
>
>
>Rob @ Backwoods wrote in message <72b0ip$qug$1...@news.mag-net.com>...
G Davis
while you get away.
John Reece wrote in message <3649C7...@DELETE.sousa.sc.intel.com>...
>LUCID41 wrote:
>
>> I will be taking a long trip in Yosemite next summer by myself and had
decided
>> I would take some pepper spray along.
>
>The sources I previously mentioned also said it didn't seem as effective
>on black bears. My own hypothesis is that a bluff-charging grizzly is
>likely
>only a little on the fight side of a fight-or-flight decision in what it
>perceives to be an uncertain and possibly risky situation for itself.
>One
>good jolt can push it to the flight side. On the other hand, a
>habituated,
>camp-raiding Yosemite black bear is pretty familiar with the situation
>and is more certain of a tangible, positive outcome if it just
>persists. My 2 cents.
>
>Also, only approved models of pepper spray are legal in California. I
>suspect the big 12-16 ounce canisters available up north aren't on the
>list.
>
>> I would love to hear more intelligent, informed, and reasonable
discussion on
>> this!
>
>There's "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance", and the more recent
>"Mark of the Grizzly".
>
>John Reece
>Not an Intel spokesman
Trailgalore
what about carring a stun gun? Or, better yet, a taser?
LUCID41
manure". Don't know how that go in there. While I could have made small
typos, that's not what I wrote.
What I type was "a more agressive way". In other words normally bear attacks
are not aggressive in the sense they usually aren't trying to kill a person.
They are trying to neutralize and determine a perceive threat. When one runs
from or fights a bear that I would expect to trigure the bear into a more
agressive mode and even provoke the bear to kill.
So, why didn't the pepper spray "piss" the bear off enough for it to want to
kill the next victim.
wr...@my-dejanews.com
been able to figure out, especially since I have never had the need to use
it. While there are the concentration % and physical/emotional state of the
animal issues, I wonder if the physical reactions are different in animals.
I believe it was a Canadian wildlife guy that emptied a can of spray on the
ground and a day or so later found a griz actually rolling around rubbing his
head in the residue - seemed he really liked it! I have been told that for the
spray to be effective for any period of time the bear has to inhale a goodly
slug into the lungs. Mere surface exposure is not very effective.
Regards, Dan
rall...@aol.com (RAllenAL) wrote:
> Having just had the occassion to use pepper spray on two dogs which attacked
my
> dog, I have had my confidence shaken in the stuff. It had very little effect
> on the dogs. I know I hit them as the white dog is now orange but they did
not
> break off their attack except briefly to rub face in the snow. Glad it wasn't
> a bear.
> Richard Allen
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Pete Hickey
>There have been mixed results of using bear spray that I certainly haven't
>been able to figure out, especially since I have never had the need to use
>
>ground and a day or so later found a griz actually rolling around rubbing his
>head in the residue - seemed he really liked it! I have been told that for the
What is so hard to understand about that. I love eating
Jalapeno peppers & habanero hot sauce, but I sure wouldn't
want to have the stuff poured on my face!
--
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)
at http://www.cauce.org/
The following address is not valid: pet...@mudhead.uottawa.ca
It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content
--
Pete Hickey | | VEIWIT
Communication Services | Pe...@mudhead.uottawa.CA | Makers of transparent
University of Ottawa | | mirrors for
Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5| (613) 562-5800x1008 | dyslexics.
wayne
>
> Since spray may or may not work, and guns are not allowed in National Parks,
> what about carring a stun gun? Or, better yet, a taser?
May I ask? How are you going to use such a device through all that fur?
Wayne.
GStigall
>The post wasn't meant to say "attacking in
>manure". Don't know how that go in there. While I could have made small
>typos, that's not what I wrote.
Ok...I've had messages mangled before also - unexplainable.
>What I type was "a more agressive way". In other words normally bear attacks
>are not aggressive in the sense they usually aren't trying to kill a person.
Since you post was written in the context of your planned visit to Yosemite,
I'll comment in that context. There is no pattern of aggressive bear attacks
in Yosemite's backcountry. There have been some encounters in the front
country (Yosemite Valley) due to extremely food-habituated bears (they're in
the minority but of course get the most press). From my own personal
observation, I can attest to the fact that bears in Yosemite Valley, besides
having food made available to them, are relentlessly followed and harranged
(harrassed!) by groups of visitors who "want a closer look". Sooner or later,
there's bound to be trouble with such a scenario.
You can write to Yosemite before your trip and get all your bear-related
questions answered. The address is NPS, PO Box 577, Yosemite CA 95389.
Hope this helps,
Georgia Stigall
http://members.aol.com/gstigall/bears.htm
del...@hotmail.com
>Since spray may or may not work, and guns are not allowed in National Parks,
>what about carring a stun gun? Or, better yet, a taser?
>
>
That didn't work on "Rot Knee King". It likely wouldn't work on a
Grizz either.
rosic...@my-dejanews.com
Margaret and Jeffrey and Molly <me...@sonic.net> wrote:
> We can swap anecdotes. My daughter used pepper spray to "nail" a dog (white, as it
> happens) which was attacking ours. It broke off immediately.
>
>
> > Having just had the occassion to use pepper spray on two dogs which attacked my
> > dog, I have had my confidence shaken in the stuff. It had very little effect
> > on the dogs. I know I hit them as the white dog is now orange but they did not
> > break off their attack except briefly to rub face in the snow. Glad it wasn't
> > a bear.
> > Richard Allen
>
> What did the zen master say to the hot-dog vendor?
> Make me one with everything.
>
>
From AEICORP!!!
The power of oleoresin capsicum is so great
that it has become a popular ingredient in
personal defense sprays that have virtually
replaced tear gas products such as Mace. The
tear gas products had proven to be virtually
ineffective against many violent attackers,
especially those under the influence of
narcotics and alcohol. Additionally, the tear
gas products have a fairly long reaction time
of three to thirty seconds.
Pepper sprays have a reaction time of one to
three seconds, and have been touted as a safe,
effective response to attackers. One article
in security magazine stated: "One blast of
pepper spray will cause respiratory spasms,
choking, and temporary closure of the eyes,
preventing any further aggressive behavior. It
will work against persons under the influence
of narcotics and alcohol.
Pepper sprays vary considerably in the amount
of oleoresin they contain. Manufacturers tout
the percentage of oleoresin in their products
and make claims that theirs is best because it
contains ten percent oleoresin. But, what is
the strength of the oleoresin? One
manufacturer, BodyGuard, states: "Remember, a
spray containing ten percent of 500,000
Scoville Heat Unit oleoresin capsicum is not
as effective as a spray containing five
percent of 2,000,000 Scoville Heat Unit
oleoresin. The more capsaicinoid content the
oleoresin has, the hotter and more effective
the spray will be."
Pepper sprays quickly became popular with law
enforcement agencies after first being
introduced in 1977. By 1990, Time magazine
reported that the FBI and more than 1000
agencies were using spray.
Generally speaking, the sprays used by law
enforcement personnel are five times more
powerful than those sold to the general
public.
The sprays are quite popular with the public,
as evidenced by steadily growing sales. But
there has been some backlash. The sprays are
now forbidden to be carried about aircraft,
and they were banned for personal defense in
California until a law permitting their use
was passed in 1994. Before then, the only
pepper spray permitted in that state was a
diluted anti-animal spray called Dog Shield;
however, many different sprays were sold
illegally in California and are commonly
available.
In 1994, the American Civil Liberties Union in
Los Angeles claimed to have documented
fourteen fatalities involving people who had
been sprayed. Alan Parachini, director of
public affairs, stated that even if the spray
itself was not the cause death, autopsy
results showed that it was a factor. He urged
the Los Angeles Police Department to curtail
its use of pepper spray until more research
was done.
The study brought up questions of the
effectiveness of the pepper spray in subduing
violent and irrational people. The FBI report,
"Chemical Agent Research, Oleoresin Capsicum"
concluded that pepper sprays were effective
against intoxicated people, and told the story
of a large, intoxicated biker who was
successfully disabled. "Two agencies reported
oleoresin capsicum is frequently used to
subdue inmates who were violent and
uncontrollable."
Pepper spray works quite well, and it's safer
than other methods, including handguns.
There have been numerous instances of the
improper use of pepper sprays. In 1996, a
federal district judge in Washington State
barred the use of pepper spray in a state
juvenile facility. The plaintiffs' attorney
cited a lack of training on the part of the
staff which caused them to over use the pepper
spray instead of employing other intervention
methods.
In July, 1996, three teenaged boys in Sherman
Oaks, California, apparently upset with being
barred from a public swimming pool, sprayed a
can of pepper spray in a locker room. The
acrid cloud of capsicum oleoresin caused
burning eyes and sore throats on two adults
and fourteen children, who were treated at a
local hospital.
But human beings are not the only mammals
controlled with pepper sprays. They have been
used against dogs, cats, and even bears.
"It's horrible to be eaten alive by an
animal," said a man who credits a pepper spray
with saving his life. Mark Matheny, a general
contractor from Bozeman, Montana, and his
partner, Dr. Fred Bahnson, were bow hunting
for elk in the Gallatin National Forest about
thirty miles north of West Yellowstone,
Montana in early 1993. They surprised a female
grizzly and her three cubs feasting on a
freshly-killed elk and the grizzly mother
instantly reacted to protect her cubs.
"She charged with incredible speed," said
Matheny. "I had no time to do anything. I held
my bow up in front of me for protection, and
she just knocked it out of my hand."
The grizzly smashed Matheny to the ground and
seized his head in her jaws. Meanwhile,
Bahnson had drawn his can of ten percent
capsicum oleoresin spray and charged the bear,
screaming at the top of his lungs. The bear
turned and was hit directly in the eyes with
the caustic spray.
The grizzly knocked Bahnson down again, bit
him on the arm, and was about to rip out his
throat when the spray finally took effect and
the bear suddenly broke off the attack, ran
back to her cubs and then tore off into the
woods.
Matheny suffered from sixteen inches of bear
bites on his face and head which required more
than 100 stitches to close. But he's okay now,
thanks to his partner Dr. Bahnson, who just
happens to specialize in facial
reconstruction. And thanks to a certain
Capsicum spray, whose brand name remains
unknown.
If you find the information you have just read valuable,you may be interested
in a Product called Pepper foam which will subdue anyone and anything for 30
to 45 minutes. This product is guaranteed.
For more infomation contact:
E-mail aei...@aol.com
E-mail quali...@popaccount.com
http://www.qualityrich.com/protection/hotfoam.html
http://members.aol.com/aeicorp/hotfoam.html
Thanks .
James r. Stidham sr.
rosic...@my-dejanews.com
luc...@aol.com (LUCID41) wrote:
> The post wasn't meant to say "attacking in
> manure". Don't know how that go in there. While I could have made small
> typos, that's not what I wrote.
>
> are not aggressive in the sense they usually aren't trying to kill a person.
> from or fights a bear that I would expect to trigure the bear into a more
> agressive mode and even provoke the bear to kill.
>
> So, why didn't the pepper spray "piss" the bear off enough for it to want to
> kill the next victim.
>
The Power and Controversy of Pepper Sprays
Rob @ Backwoods
residue, on involved a couple who thought that they were to spray it around
their campsite to keep bears away, and the other I believe was some on who
had residue on his pack and a bear got at it (not totally sure on the last
one). Again, believe it or not, there was reprtedly a German couple who
thought they were to use it like a mosquito repellent - all I can say is
ooouuuuccccchhhhhhh!!!!.
Rob
http://www.irl.bc.ca/backwoods.htm
wr...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <72dlre$uqh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>There have been mixed results of using bear spray that I certainly haven't
>been able to figure out, especially since I have never had the need to use
>animal issues, I wonder if the physical reactions are different in animals.
>
>ground and a day or so later found a griz actually rolling around rubbing
his
>head in the residue - seemed he really liked it! I have been told that for
the
goodly
>slug into the lungs. Mere surface exposure is not very effective.
>
>Regards, Dan
>
>
>
>> Having just had the occassion to use pepper spray on two dogs which
attacked
>my
>> dog, I have had my confidence shaken in the stuff. It had very little
effect
>> on the dogs. I know I hit them as the white dog is now orange but they
did
>not
>> break off their attack except briefly to rub face in the snow. Glad it
wasn't
>> a bear.
>> Richard Allen
>>
>
dickross
Jalepeno peppers. That's good food (for everybody except a few yankees
that don't count) . You could spray it on some of those freeze dried
cardboard meals to give them a little flavor. Spraying it on your body
would have little or no effect (unless you have a cut or scratch).(well
it might cause some minor irritation if you use it to treat jock itch
8-).
It only works (or maybe doesn't "work" but at least it will have some
effect!) if you spray it in the bear (or dogs) eyes or where they will
breath the mist.
Dick
--
Dick _ _
\ /
\ /
\ /
|
\ | /
\ | /
____________\|/______\//_______\/__
_______\\/___
______\|//______________
rosic...@my-dejanews.com
"Trailgalore" <nos...@net.net> wrote:
> Since spray may or may not work, and guns are not allowed in National Parks,
> what about carring a stun gun? Or, better yet, a taser?
>
>
http://www.qualityrich.com/protection/hotfoam.html
http://members.aol.com/aeicorp/hotfoam.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Dave MacLearn
> Of course it attracts them! the active ingredient is an extract of
> Jalepeno peppers. That's good food (for everybody except a few yankees
> that don't count) . You could spray it on some of those freeze dried
> cardboard meals to give them a little flavor. Spraying it on your body
> would have little or no effect (unless you have a cut or scratch).(well
> it might cause some minor irritation if you use it to treat jock itch
> 8-).
Actually... Being a chef, I've worked with Jalepeno peppers and it's
cousins, and if you leave the juice on your bare skin for a short period
of time, you will notice a burning sensation. I've had co-workers who've
not only neglected to wash their hands after working with the peppers,
but who've rubbed their eyes afterwards (ouch) or even gone to the
restroom afterwards. They had few words adequate to describe that
particular burning sensation in their lions.
--
dave (at) climber.net
kmsimmons
Rubbing hot peppers on the joint areas has also been said to relieve
arthritis pain.
Mike
Dan McCarty
>
> Having just had the occassion to use pepper spray on two dogs which attacked my
> dog, I have had my confidence shaken in the stuff. It had very little effect
> on the dogs. I know I hit them as the white dog is now orange but they did not
> break off their attack except briefly to rub face in the snow. Glad it wasn't
> a bear.
> Richard Allen
Did you paint his face red? Pepper spray will burn the skin but the fur
of an animal is going to reduce the amount of spray that can reach the
skin. Was your spray water or alcohol based? The "pepper" is oil
based, so you really need an alcohol based spray otherwise the can needs
to be shaken to mix. Not a good thing when you need to defend yourself!
"Hey Bear/Bad Guy! Hold on a second I need to shake my can!"
Pepper spray needs to hit the nose and eyes. If the person/animal gets
a good dose the eyes are going to close. If the spray is enhaled, which
is want you want your attacker to do, the breathing passages, nose and
throat will start shedding mucus. Lovely I know, but this hinders
breathing, not enough to kill but enough to weaken. Also the PAIN
is quite considerable. The effectiveness of pepper spray is in the
PAIN that it causes and more importantly the body's reaction, closed
eyes and breathing difficulities. If you have a head cold, a shot of
pepper spray will cure you runny nose! Everything in your nasal
passages will be removed! 8-) I would not recommend this treatment
since the cure is far worse than the disease! 8-)
Sprays above 5-6% are no more effective than a 10% spray, if the
original formulation is the same in Scofield units. Higher percentages
just prolong the burning and other effects. It does not increase the
reaction of the target. A 5-6% spray will still burn up to an hour
after "application." Cold, cold water, and alot of it, helps ease the
recovery from being sprayed. A garden hose is a good friend in such a
situation.
The problem with any defense spray is how to apply it. Most sprays are
applied either as a fog or a stream. The stream is good for keeping
hitting your attacker at a distance, say up to 20 feet. But you had
better be real good with the can since your target is going to be moving
and any wind is going to have an effect. The fog is good since you
don't have to be as accurate with your aim. The problem is that you are
close to what is causing you a problem. But a fog allows a much easier
application. In any case, stream or fog, YOU the sprayer are very
likely going to be exposed to the chemical agent. Ooops! YOU had
better know before hand what that is like so you can deal with it.
People, and I would assume animals, are going to react differently to
being sprayed. Some people immediately stop what they are doing that
caused them to be sprayed and others keep on attacking. They are
affected by the spray, breathing and eyes, so they are not as effective
in attacking you, but they can keep right on going. Of course if they
are stradling your chest and choking your life out, the fact that the
attacker cannot see you die might not really matter....
Pepper spray is a tool and like any tool it has its proper uses but it
will not be 100% effective. Avoidance of The Bad Animal/Criminal is the
first defense and the best one. Tis better to have pepper spray than
not.
Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty
CJ
>would have little or no effect (unless you have a cut or scratch).(well
>it might cause some minor irritation if you use it to treat jock itch
>8-).
Based on the one time I handled a dog with pepper residue on its fur (from a
very dilute form of the spray), I did NOT find this to be true. I felt a
definite burning sensation where the residue came into contact with my skin.
And from the way the dog was acting, it's skin was burning also.
--
Christopher Jain
San Diego, California
[Modify address before e-mailing]
dickross
>
> dickross bestowed upon us knowledge:
> > Of course it attracts them! the active ingredient is an extract of
> > Jalepeno peppers. That's good food (for everybody except a few yankees
> > that don't count) . You could spray it on some of those freeze dried
> > would have little or no effect (unless you have a cut or scratch).(well
> > it might cause some minor irritation if you use it to treat jock itch
> > 8-).
>
> cousins, and if you leave the juice on your bare skin for a short period
> of time, you will notice a burning sensation. I've had co-workers who've
> not only neglected to wash their hands after working with the peppers,
> but who've rubbed their eyes afterwards (ouch) or even gone to the
> restroom afterwards. They had few words adequate to describe that
> particular burning sensation in their lions.
>
> --
> dave (at) climber.net
noticed any irritation on my hands. of course that's where the skin is
toughest . I guess the point is, that spraying it on the skin is not
enough of an immediate irritant to distract a bear or dog with supper on
his mind.
noj...@mail.com
>>I would love to hear more discussion on this. Prior to taking my first trip in
>>Grizzly county, I educated myself as much as possible on bears and bear
>>encounters.
You might want to check this book out:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1560446366/qid=911220760/sr=1-1/002-9947599-8440001
H2O...@webtv.net
didn't carry a gun but wore bells on his legs so he wouldn't suprise a
bear. It must have worked because he had encountered many bears but was
never attacked
Pete Hickey
Related to this.... Has there ever been a case of an
ice cream truck being attacked by a bear???
Lloyd Bowles
>
> In article <25279-36...@newsd-211.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> <H2O...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > I was told by a guy who lived in bear country in Alaska that he
> >didn't carry a gun but wore bells on his legs so he wouldn't suprise a
> >bear.
>
> ice cream truck being attacked by a bear???
If this ever happened & the word spread through the ursine community
that bells mean ice cream, it would be carnage. Do you want to try to
explain to an angry mama bear why you don't have ice cream for her
disappointed cub? :-)
--
Lloyd Bowles
The Mad Canoeist
"Keep the open side up!"
http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html
ORBS Free Outdoor Classifieds/ORBS Escrow
wrote:
> Pete Hickey wrote:
> >
> > In article <25279-36...@newsd-211.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> > <H2O...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > > I was told by a guy who lived in bear country in Alaska that he
> > >didn't carry a gun but wore bells on his legs so he wouldn't suprise a
> > >bear.
> >
> > Related to this.... Has there ever been a case of an
> > ice cream truck being attacked by a bear???
>
> If this ever happened & the word spread through the ursine community
> that bells mean ice cream, it would be carnage. Do you want to try to
> explain to an angry mama bear why you don't have ice cream for her
> disappointed cub? :-)
This is a urban legend which has become distroted in the re-telling.
In fact, the whole thing was started in the 1960s by an Alaskan
trouser salesman trying to promote his line of bell bottomed pants.
-- Jeff
ORBS Bear Canisters - $68 delivered in all 50 states, $3/day rental
http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/bc-homepage.html
ORBS Classifieds - Free outdoor classified ads
http://home.pacbell.net/orbs
ORBS Escrow - Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers
http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html
Larry Cooper
ORBS Free Outdoor Classifieds/ORBS Escrow wrote:
>
> On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:01:31 -0500, Lloyd Bowles <lbo...@bmts.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Pete Hickey wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <25279-36...@newsd-211.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> > > <H2O...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > > > I was told by a guy who lived in bear country in Alaska that he
> > > >didn't carry a gun but wore bells on his legs so he wouldn't suprise a
> > > >bear.
> > >
> > > Related to this.... Has there ever been a case of an
> > > ice cream truck being attacked by a bear???
> >
> > If this ever happened & the word spread through the ursine community
> > that bells mean ice cream, it would be carnage. Do you want to try to
> > explain to an angry mama bear why you don't have ice cream for her
> > disappointed cub? :-)
>
> This is a urban legend which has become distroted in the re-telling.
> In fact, the whole thing was started in the 1960s by an Alaskan
> trouser salesman trying to promote his line of bell bottomed pants.
>
> -- Jeff
You're all wrong. The idea of wearing bells is an ursine plot to make
tender, city-bread, nicely marbled, hikers easier to find. Remember how
you can tell grizzly crap from blackbear.
Larry
Larry Cooper
tender, city-bred, nicely marbled, hikers easier to find. Remember how
Steve Barba
>
> I was told by a guy who lived in bear country in Alaska that he
> didn't carry a gun but wore bells on his legs so he wouldn't suprise a
> never attacked
Well, survival is, of course, the first priority, but wearing bells
would dampen what for me is a cherished aspect of hiking: the sounds of
the backcountry. Many times I barely hear something over the sound of
my own movement. I then stop and often clearly hear something I'm glad
to have noticed--the flight of a large bird, an onrush of wind coming up
from the ocean and rolling over the hills toward me, a waterfall
somewhere off the trail. That said, I'd still choose to live rather
than hear these things if the risk warranted. I haven't hiked in
grizzly country alone yet, but if/when I do I'd certainly to talk to
locals first to see what worked best to stay safe.
Steve
GStigall
>Well, survival is, of course, the first priority, but wearing bells
>would dampen what for me is a cherished aspect of hiking: the sounds of
>the backcountry. Many times I barely hear something over the sound of
>my own movement. I then stop and often clearly hear something I'm glad
>to have noticed--the flight of a large bird, an onrush of wind coming up
>from the ocean and rolling over the hills toward me, a waterfall
>somewhere off the trail.
And the sound of a bear nearby...with which the tinkle of bells can interfere.
The best advice is to check for "local bear conditions" (as you said you would
be doing) - the common thread of advice from several different areas with
grizzlies is to use the human voice as your noise-maker.
Georgia Stigall
Native Habitats
http://members.aol.com/gstigall/bears.htm
tim fulton
Steve Barba wrote:
> H2O...@webtv.net wrote:
> >
> > I was told by a guy who lived in bear country in Alaska that he
> > didn't carry a gun but wore bells on his legs so he wouldn't suprise a
> > bear. It must have worked because he had encountered many bears but was
> > never attacked
>
> Well, survival is, of course, the first priority, but wearing bells
> would dampen what for me is a cherished aspect of hiking: the sounds of
> the backcountry. Many times I barely hear something over the sound of
> my own movement. I then stop and often clearly hear something I'm glad
> to have noticed--the flight of a large bird, an onrush of wind coming up
> from the ocean and rolling over the hills toward me, a waterfall
> somewhere off the trail. That said, I'd still choose to live rather
> than hear these things if the risk warranted. I haven't hiked in
> grizzly country alone yet, but if/when I do I'd certainly to talk to
> locals first to see what worked best to stay safe.
>
> Steve
Er, if you stop, wont the bells also stop? How about the sound of a 600lb
bear rushing down at you? DONT SCARE BEARS!
TF
tab...@sd.cts.com
>grizzlies is to use the human voice as your noise-maker.
>
>Georgia Stigall
Hey GeoBear, voices don't always deter bears. Sometimes it works just
the opposite. Remind me to tell you of my encounter with a large
cinnamon Black in Sequoia in 1990. Being charged by a fast moving bear
is quite a unique experience.
Doc
Chris Adams
Youre reminded.
Incidently, its a hell of alot better to alert the bear to your approach -
through a voice or otherwise.
del...@hotmail.com
>cinnamon Black in Sequoia in 1990. Being charged by a fast moving bear
>is quite a unique experience.
Well, why don't you tell us now? I'd be interested in hearing the
story. I hunt bear with a single shot muzzleloader. That gets the
adrenalin flowing, I can assure you.
Del
del...@hotmail.com
entitled "Mark of the Grizzly" (available via amazon.com), I recommend
it highly. Darn good book.
Del
GStigall
> the common thread of advice from several different areas with
>>grizzlies is to use the human voice as your noise-maker.
>>
>>Georgia Stigall
>
>Hey GeoBear, voices don't always deter bears. Sometimes it works just
>cinnamon Black in Sequoia in 1990. Being charged by a fast moving bear
>is quite a unique experience.
>
Right you are Doc! But it is the most commonly recommended noise-maker in bear
habitat.
I'll look forward to your story....I've been around bears a lot, but have only
been charged twice. Once by an Arctic Tern in Alaska (ouch!!!) and once by a
cow moose and calf fleeing from a male grizzly (the griz slept through the
entire episode).
Georgia Stigall
"A fed (by humans) bear....
is a DEAD (by humans) bear!"