Creek crossings
the Moderator
crossing swollen creeks. Assuming the creek is knee deep or less and the
water/weather is cool/cold..
johnrich...@yahoo.com
and characteristics of the creek itself. There are good books which
discuss stream crossing.
My personal technique is remain dry. In NH, this is usually do-able.
I hunt upstream for a place to cross (log, boulders, narrowing,
etc...). When crossing, I make sure my pack straps are loose. I've
backtracked away from swollen rivers to avoid crossing.
To save time, instead of looking for a place to cross, I used to carry
spare shoes or sandles to ford. But I found that 1) the submerged
rocks are suprisingly slippery and 2) icy water numbed my feet so
quickly it was hard to feel my way though the water.
I've noticed that many NH hikers tend underestimate the danger of a
swollen stream. Around here, I'm under the impression that most
hiking, cold weather, stream-related deaths are from hypothermia after
partial submersion, not drownings. No hard data though.
John
Bill Tuthill
Generally I use a kayak. ;-)
What they taught us in swiftwater rescue school is to use a paddle
(or improvised hiking stick) to form a tripod. Face upstream and move
only one leg of the tripod at a time. Knee deep is easy. What's hard
are spots (usually not very many or very wide) that are deeper.
It's good to change into Teva/Chaco sandals beforehand, if you carry them
as camp shoes. That way you won't get your hiking boots wet. Barefoot
would be another possibility, but can be painful and slippery.
Eugene Miya
A couple of decades ago, a fellow named Bill March wrote a whole book
(the size of a small pamplet) about this. He has since passed away (see
the 16th).
Before that I had a roommate who in his early days as a writer wrote a
story (non-fic) about Crossing the Big Sur River. It was about "fitting in"
like about society, and it ended with the sentence: "And I realized that
I might die here..." He did OK, he survived, and now lives in Israel.
Numerous outdoor books cover the basics (Fletcher, Manning, many others):
socks off to prevent later blisters, etc. March got into serious rope
work to include things like expeditions. Panel 28.
Depth and temperature bring out 2 basic facts: 1) you can drown in less
than 6 inches of water. I think Pelton's book has the stat on the
number of people who die (mostly eldery) in falls. 2) Temp is the usual
hypothermia warning. So rule number 1 has to be: don't be afraid to
not cross. Being chicken is OK. You have to be willing, having invested
perhaps a lot, to turn around. If a person can't do this, they don't
belong there.
If a creek is swollen (above normal), that should be a yellow warning
light to you. You leave off width and velocity. Bottom obstacles are
also a hazard. The force of moving water is nothing short of amazing.
Never underestimate it. Especially, usually the center of the flow.
Quicksand can be an issue.
An in emergency: dump the pack. In fact when crossing, generally a good
idea to keep straps and belt off or loose. Drag is the problem.
Don't resort or use a rope w/o prior experience and training.
A rope is a good tool to contribute to drowning in inexperienced hands.
It helps to know how to swim, even if you don't,
keep head above water, and beware of submerged obstacles.
Feet down stream.
Fletcher recommends floatation aids. Some people them, some don't.
Packs are not generally floatation aids.
Plastic bags or booties on feet should not be trusted w/o soles.
Jumping rocks and bridge building can work if you have time.
Treat hypothermia if that's a problem.
I think drowning is the big killer in Yosemite.
I'd have to ask my friend John. They do train for water rescue there.
Going solo is also another amusing problem.
--
Eugene Miya
But being smart is even better.
--
Ilja Friedel
I tried using bare feet, sandals, scuba booties and hiking boots for
crossing streams last spring. Bare feet and sandals are damn cold and
often don't have good grip. Scuba booties keep the feet reasonably warm,
but weight as much as a pair of tennis shoes. They also are not too rigid
- still better than sandals. Crossing with boots can be straight forward.
You just have to make sure to remove the water afterwards and have two
pairs of dry socks for changing. If the boots are waterproof and high cut
you can push the socks down and lace the boots really hard to form a
waterproof seal against your bare skin. I have crossed that way in deep
water and kept my feet dry. Gaiters or long pants will do the same for 2
or 3 steps in the water, but then the water tends to seep through.
Ilja.
Doug McDonald
>
>
> What they taught us in swiftwater rescue school is to use a paddle
> (or improvised hiking stick) to form a tripod. Face upstream and move
> only one leg of the tripod at a time. Knee deep is easy. What's hard
> are spots (usually not very many or very wide) that are deeper.
>
That's good for a single person. I've used it for chest-deep
in a fast stream without disaster.
A better way in really bad cases is to get several (three or
four) people and make a circular Rugby-style scrum. This
gives 6 or 8 arthropod-like pads. Going upstream is still
helpful.
Doug McDonald
Eugene Miya
Not every crossing will be reversible. So if you start, make certain
that's the right decision. The history of the Sespe river is a lesson
for that. That's another panel 16 case.
But being smart is even better. And that guy was pretty smart.
--
Bill Tuthill
We were forced to practice both in swiftwater rescue school,
and quite honestly, I preferred doing it alone.
Stealth 5.10 rubber works better on dry rock and sand-covered rock,
but felt soles are best for wet rock and algae-covered rock.
If you know ahead of time you'll be doing a stream crossing,
it's worth carrying a pair. NRS sells felt-soled low-top kickers
for $37, and Cabelas probably sells something like this also.
Miss Anne Thrope
Martin Thornquist
> I would be interested in hearing the variety of techniques people use for
> crossing swollen creeks. Assuming the creek is knee deep or less and the
> water/weather is cool/cold..
IIRC, Berghaus used to make a supposedly waterproof gaiter named Yeti.
They had promotional pictures of someone standing in the middle of a
(shallow) river with a pulk on their back. Not sure if they worked
perfectly, I think I heard about problems with wear on the rubber part
that seals off around the boot.
I usually follow upstream to find a place I can cross without getting
water over the top of the boots (or where barefoot would be OK), but
then I don't often have to cross anything large enough to be a big
problem.
Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp
Doug McDonald
> Doug McDonald <mcdonald@snpoam_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>> What they taught us in swiftwater rescue school is to use a paddle
>>> (or improvised hiking stick) to form a tripod. Face upstream and move
>>> only one leg of the tripod at a time. Knee deep is easy. What's hard
>>> are spots (usually not very many or very wide) that are deeper.
>> That's good for a single person. I've used it for chest-deep
>> in a fast stream without disaster.
>> A better way in really bad cases is to get several (three or
>> four) people and make a circular Rugby-style scrum. This gives
>> 6 or 8 arthropod-like pads. Going upstream is still helpful.
>
> We were forced to practice both in swiftwater rescue school,
> and quite honestly, I preferred doing it alone.
>
I've done both in some pretty bad places, including one in
India that killed an overloaded horse. In the worst cases,
chest high, fast current, and rocky bottom, the scrum wins.
What I would really worry about, to the point of raft or
bridge construction projects, would be upper-thigh high,
wide, and glacier-cold. The India affair was not wide at
all, and not quite glacier cold. After the horse died we
re-crossed back to where most of our party was and waited
for the creek to go down. At this point we had been out
three weeks and were out of food; all we had for 24 hours
was fried trout from the creek. The bus was only four miles
away.
Doug McDonald
Chris Townsend
<marti...@ifi.uio.no> writes
>[ the Moderator ]
>
>> I would be interested in hearing the variety of techniques people use for
>> crossing swollen creeks. Assuming the creek is knee deep or less and the
>> water/weather is cool/cold..
>
>IIRC, Berghaus used to make a supposedly waterproof gaiter named Yeti.
>They had promotional pictures of someone standing in the middle of a
>(shallow) river with a pulk on their back. Not sure if they worked
>perfectly, I think I heard about problems with wear on the rubber part
>that seals off around the boot.
Berghaus still make Yeti gaiters. They're a supergaiter with front zip
and Velcro closure. They are waterproof as you keep moving. If you stand
round in water or long it starts to seep through the closure. I used to
wear them for ski touring with leather boots and they were excellent,
especially in wet spring snow. The rubber seal is fine on snow but does
get cut on rocks.
CanopyCo
Cold Water River Crossing
By Rod
Revision 1.8
Get a set of chest waders and a life jacket.
Put the life jacket on over the waders. This will help prevent water
from entering over the top of the waders, as well as prevent the waders
from catching water like a sea anchor and pulling you down during a
spill.
A belt around the top of the waders will also help in this.
A 6' stick will also help you keep your balance. Use as a walking stick
while faceing up stream.
Choose Your Crossing.
The narrowest point in the stream may be the most dangerous because the
current is most powerful there.
The widest part is probably the slowest current.
Look for a compromise between narrow & slow.
Is the creek fed by snow melt?
Crossing in the morning will allow the snow to freeze during the night,
slowing flow.
During the day, as it heats up, the snow melt will increase the creeks
flow.
Is the creek narrow enough to throw a rope across?
Or shoot the rope across with a wrist rocket?
If so, throw a grappling hook across and tie the end of the rope to
your life jacket. This can be as simple as a parachute line or heavy
trout line cord tied to a big treble hook and 4 oz lead sinker. Tie the
sinker to the top of the hook so it stretches the hook between the
sinker and the rope.
Throw it into some trees so that it hooks into wood. In the event that
you fall, the rope will swing you to shore on the far side just like a
pendulum.
If you have the time and gear required, you can use a inflatable raft
and tie the rope to it. This will swing the raft across the stream
without needing to paddle.
For a cheep, strong, quick inflating raft, try a inner tube inflated
with a can of fix-a-flat. This can be packed uninflated and then
inflated at the stream. A bicycle tire pump would give you more then 1
crossing but takes much longer.
Some waders have a inner tub build in to them. Be aware, these can turn
you up side down if you are floating. You are then floating along with
your head under water. When using a tube as a raft, it is best to lay
over the tube or set in the hole. This gives you better control over
capsizing.
You may want to experiment with this grapple hook and swing while the
weather is good for swimming. Remember, when using the swing method,
you will come ashore at a point equal to the width of the stream and
down stream.
So plan accordingly.
Also, carry a water proof bag with a change of clothing & a fire log or
some other type of ready made large fire. If you fall in, you will need
to start a fire immediately to prevent hypothermia. Some of the heat
bags sold for hunting is also good to have. Place them in your shorts
and under arm pits for maximum value of heat generated. A cheep
substitute for this is simply a hot water bottle and water heated over
your fire log.
A thermos full of hot soup would also be helpful.
Keep your pack loose so that it will come off if you fall.
It can drag you down like an anchor.
Be sure to put some flotation in your supply pack to prevent it from
sinking to the bottom and being lost in the event of a worst case
situation.
Tying it to you can get you tangled in its line and cause its own
problems.
Also, putting the entire pack in a large trash bag at the time of the
crossing and tying it to its own swing line will enable you to float it
and forget it. Freeing your hands to help you stay balanced while
making the crossing. Be sure to tie the swing line to the pack and not
the trash bag.
CanopyCo
Cold Water River Crossing
Bill Tuthill
If you're going that far, why not just build a frickin' bridge?
Jon Meinecke
> CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Get a set of chest waders and a life jacket.
>
> If you're going that far, why not just build a frickin' bridge?
>
Or a helicopter! %^)
Nobody has mentioned pole vaulting either!
There's also rope swings...
As someone (several someones) pointed out, crossing a
swollen creek may not be the wisest thing to do.
Many years ago, decades %^), I went with a college group
on a three-night spring backpacking trip. The trail up a
narrowish canyon crossed the stream 20+ times in 8
or ten miles. Not hard crossing, deep or wide, but 12"
and 12' in most places. The group would stop and take
off boots, wade across, dry off, replace boots, hike half a mile
and repeat. Eventually some people got tired of taking
off boots and just started wading through (not me).
Think inexperienced hikers, cotton socks, poorly fitted,
poorly constructed boots. Those of us who continued
to wade barefoot carefully arrived later than the group
of then not too happy campers who had blazed on full
speed ahead. No Darwin awards, however.
Jon Meinecke
Eugene Miya
In article <4411cf46$0$3326$6d36...@taz.nntpserver.com>,
Jon Meinecke <jon...@none.non> wrote:
Get cards?
>"Bill Tuthill" <c...@spam.co> wrote in message news:4411...@news.meer.net...
>> If you're going that far, why not just build a frickin' bridge?
Littlefield, locally owns one of those bridging tanks which can throw a
48 ft. bridge over a river. These tanks are very impressive.
>Or a helicopter! %^)
R.s.b. thread.
>Nobody has mentioned pole vaulting either!
>
>There's also rope swings...
Via ferranti thread. Or Cliffhanger if you want the rope bridges.
>As someone (several someones) pointed out, crossing a
>swollen creek may not be the wisest thing to do.
It depends if you read Into the Wild close enough.
>and 12' in most places. The group would stop and take
>off boots, wade across, dry off, replace boots, hike half a mile
>and repeat. Eventually some people got tired of taking
>off boots and just started wading through (not me).
Well this is what the Zion Narrows are about.
But less than 1/2 mile.
>Think inexperienced hikers, cotton socks, poorly fitted,
>poorly constructed boots. Those of us who continued
Consider wet suit booties.
--
mudboy
"the Moderator" <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote in message
news:luCdnelGosayapPZ...@centurytel.net...
>I would be interested in hearing the variety of techniques people use for
> crossing swollen creeks. Assuming the creek is knee deep or less and the
> water/weather is cool/cold..
>
>
I feign a sore foot and get someone to carry me across.
CanopyCo
The question is ask how for options on how to cross a stream.
I post some options that will not only work, but allow you to stay
pretty well dry and cross a pretty fast body of water.
Now, several act like using an inflatable raft is harder then building
a bridge at every crossing.
Idiots.
And yes, if you do not have to cross, then it may be best to not cross.
And you should know if there is any water ways that have a potential of
trapping you before you leave the house if you read your map and plan
your hike.
But what if you do have to cross?
Oklahoma is having wild fires here.
What if you are trapped again a stream with a forest fire coming at
you?
What if you already crossed the stream, then that night it rained up
stream?
You going to wait until spring to go home?
All you have to do is plan ahead and life can be pretty easy.
And your inflatable bed role will also work for a flotation device, so
all the extra that you have to carry is a ball of heavy string that you
should have anyway in your survival gear, a sling shot, and a treble
hook.
But hay, if you don't like my methods, then swim.
Ernie W
> I would be interested in hearing the variety of techniques people use for
> crossing swollen creeks. Assuming the creek is knee deep or less and the
> water/weather is cool/cold.
I always walk with trekking poles these days and they help crossing
streams. They can help you balance and stay high and dry. They can also
be used to pole vault short hops without even getting your boots wet.
I also say wisdom in picking your crossing and the additional wisdom of
not crossing if too dangerous are very important. Never ever
underestimate the power of water. But this might be one of those things
you have to experience first hand to really believe. I personally fell
once in a foot+ deep stream with a butt pack on. The water pulled so
hard on the pack that I had trouble regaining control. I got slammed
against a couple of rocks and came close to going over a small falls a
bit downstream. I got out by not fighting the current but moving
perpendicular to it. Then the problem was that I was on the other side
and the rest of my group didn't want to take the risk of crossing after
seeing what happened to me. I ended up going about a 1/4 mile upstream
to find a much better crossing point to get back.
But one technique I have used is to take off my socks (and in some boots
the foot beds as well and occasionally my pants so they don't get wet)
and then wear my boots barefoot and then cross. My boots have traction
and protect my toes from getting broken when I slip on rocks (something
I have always felt Tevas can't fully do for you). Then when I get to the
other side I put my socks back on then some freezer bags over them then
back into the wet boots. Then walk the boots dry.
Gary S.
>Added note: sure: sometimes a pole can help.
>But being smart is even better.
What is it, Rutan's Law?
"The superior pilot is the one who uses his superior judgement to
avoid situations where he might need his superior skill."
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence
Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
Gary S.
<Ch...@auchnarrow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <xunr75c...@riget284.uio.no>, Martin Thornquist
><marti...@ifi.uio.no> writes
>>IIRC, Berghaus used to make a supposedly waterproof gaiter named Yeti.
>>They had promotional pictures of someone standing in the middle of a
>>(shallow) river with a pulk on their back. Not sure if they worked
>>perfectly, I think I heard about problems with wear on the rubber part
>>that seals off around the boot.
>
>Berghaus still make Yeti gaiters. They're a supergaiter with front zip
>and Velcro closure. They are waterproof as you keep moving. If you stand
>round in water or long it starts to seep through the closure. I used to
>wear them for ski touring with leather boots and they were excellent,
>especially in wet spring snow. The rubber seal is fine on snow but does
>get cut on rocks.
Also, Wiggie's out of Colorado makes ultralight hip high fishing
waders out of waterproof nylon fabric. They make sense for backcountry
fly fishers and hikers who wade a lot.
Gary S.
As others have said, one can often find a better spot by going up or
down stream a little bit to find a more fordable place. Often however,
established trails use the best spot, or have had boulders added in
strategic places.
Barefoot is not a good choice. Traction is poor, possiblity of injury
high.
I have used Teva sandals on backpacks (where I carry them as a camp
shoe). Note that some of their models are more about urban style than
their original grip on wet rocks models.
For day trips, it has often been simpler to remove socks and put the
boots back on to wade. Putting dry socks on after crossing is better
than wearing wet socks the rest of the day. This is usually when my
boots get washed. ;-)
Of course, one should loosen pack shoulder straps, unbuckle stermun
and waist straps to allow you to drop the pack if needed. Waterprrof
clothing might keep you drier, but if it fills with water, could pull
you under.
Even knee deep water moving at a moderate speed can exert an amazing
amount of force. Do the math before you decide you can handle deeper
moving water.
As whitewater paddlers do, consider the consequences of falling into
the water if you lose your footing. Do not cross just above falls,
rapids, or "strainers" in the water.
People have died while wading across seemingly easy streams. Consider
the urgency to get to the other side, and use every precaution you can
to make the crossing safer. Groups should work together, and not leave
teh far side until everyone is safely across.
There are few accidents while hiking which can lead to immediate
death. In water, anything that gets you trapped under the water, or
immersion hypothermia, can lead to much more serious much sooner.
Gary S.
Colin Fletcher, in his book "The Man who Walked Through Time" about a
trip along the Colorado River in and near the GC prior to a cretain
dam, made frequent use of a small raft/air mattress.
Bill Tuthill
> Always good to know there are still idiots on usenet.
Yup, I'm one of them.
> The question is ask how for options on how to cross a stream.
> I post some options that will not only work, but allow you to stay
> pretty well dry and cross a pretty fast body of water.
Your suggestions were gear intensive, but one suggestion: tying a rope
from shore to your life jacket (PFD) is probably inadvisable.
When a swimmer is tied to a fixed line, the swimmer acts as an anchor
and sinks to the bottom. Swiftwater rescue literature and whitewater
training maunals are full of warnings: don't do this.
> But hay, if you don't like my methods, then swim.
Given a life jacket (PFD), swimming is often safer than wading.
CanopyCo
Bill Tuthill wrote:
> CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Always good to know there are still idiots on usenet.
>
> Yup, I'm one of them.
>
> > The question is ask how for options on how to cross a stream.
> > I post some options that will not only work, but allow you to stay
> > pretty well dry and cross a pretty fast body of water.
>
> Your suggestions were gear intensive, but one suggestion: tying a rope
> from shore to your life jacket (PFD) is probably inadvisable.
>
> When a swimmer is tied to a fixed line, the swimmer acts as an anchor
> and sinks to the bottom. Swiftwater rescue literature and whitewater
> training maunals are full of warnings: don't do this.
Yes, it takes gear.
All in what you want to do.
Cross a stream with waders on and not freeze your feet, or not cross at
all.
Choices.
That would depend on how fast the water is moving.
If you go with a wider / deeper area, then the water is not so swift
that it will pull your float under, but still be fast enough to swing
you across.
But yes, if it is fast enough, and you lean forward or tie it high
instead of tying it low and leaning back to make your body a wing that
pulls you up, then you can dive.
Tying the line is so that you do not loose it.
Like with swift water rescue, you get yourself on the end of the line
and it swings you to shore.
If you are pulled under with the line tied to you, then you would be
pulled under with the line in your hand, so that stretch is moving to
fast to live threw.
You have to choose your crossing, and should practice your methods
under good conditions so that you know what to do during bad one.
>
> > But hay, if you don't like my methods, then swim.
>
> Given a life jacket (PFD), swimming is often safer than wading.
Depends on the speed of the water.
But that is certainly an option if one can find a stretch that won't
wash them away, and it's not to cold.
CanopyCo
Gary S. wrote:
>
> Even knee deep water moving at a moderate speed can exert an amazing
> amount of force. Do the math before you decide you can handle deeper
> moving water.
>
It doesn't even have to be knee deep.
I had water half way up my sheen take my feet out from under me before.
In no way did I expect that to happen.
It looked like it would be nothing to worry about.
Narrow and not to deep.
Good thing it was summer so I could just crawl to shore and not freeze.
Definitely took me by surprise.
CanopyCo
Bill Tuthill wrote:
> CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Always good to know there are still idiots on usenet.
>
> Yup, I'm one of them.
>
BTW
I forgot to mention that yes, I am subject to flash anger sometimes.
Sometimes it hits when I should of just taken something as a joke.
At least use net keeps me from getting my ass kicked when I explode. :-/
Gary S.
I would have to dig up the numbers, but even 6" deep water traveling
at a moderate speed can exert force well beyond the strength of a very
strong human.
Whitewater rescue people are well aware of the force involved. Ever
see an aluminum canoe bent around a rock until bow and stern touch?
Jon Meinecke
> Get cards?
Yes, had to Google Manzanar. Striking scenic background for
such a travesty to play out... 10,000 people at that site. Profiling
at a gross level. Round up the (usual) suspects,-- they're easy
to identify. Or not, really. Have we come far? Not, too.
>>> [use chest wader ... build a bridge ...]
> Littlefield, locally owns one of those bridging tanks which can throw a
> 48 ft. bridge over a river. These tanks are very impressive.
Neat technology, but tough to backpack. I presumed OP wanted
human portable technology and techniques.
Waders,-- less complicated and flashy technology, but tough
for me to justify where I hike... Actually, where I hike, one
simple and recently effective stream crossing technique is
drought.
> Jon Meinecke <jon...@none.non> wrote:
>>Nobody has mentioned pole vaulting either!
>>
>>There's also rope swings...
>
> Via ferranti thread. Or Cliffhanger if you want the rope bridges.
As Gary or someone else pointed out pole-assisted crossing
(weight-bearing, not just as balance adjust) may be a useful
technique. Better than a running jump, in some circumnstances.
> It depends if you read Into the Wild close enough.
People regularly drive around road-closed barricades at creeks
during flash floods. Darwin regularly rewards.
"Sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game."
-- Joshua, _War Games_
>>Think inexperienced hikers, cotton socks, poorly fitted,
>>poorly constructed boots. Those of us who continued
>
> Consider wet suit booties.
30+ years ago, good wet/dry footwear choices were much more
limited in availability. Today, there are all sorts of sandals, shoes,
boots for paddling, river running, etc...
My son is going to "northern tier" in MN this summer, canoeing.
They're recommending "jungle boots". Not clear why. Muck
and mire? My experience with the other "high adventure" camp
for this well.known.org leads me to wonder about their conventional
wisdom. %^)
Need to do more research and ask on 'nother newsgroup what's
the best footwear for the sort of portaging and day hiking they may
expect.
Jon Meinecke
Mike
> On 11 Mar 2006 12:44:07 -0800, "CanopyCo" <Junk...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Gary S. wrote:
>>> Even knee deep water moving at a moderate speed can exert an amazing
>>> amount of force. Do the math before you decide you can handle deeper
>>> moving water.
>>>
>> It doesn't even have to be knee deep.
>> I had water half way up my sheen take my feet out from under me before.
>> In no way did I expect that to happen.
>> It looked like it would be nothing to worry about.
>> Narrow and not to deep.
>> Good thing it was summer so I could just crawl to shore and not freeze.
>>
>> Definitely took me by surprise.
>
> I would have to dig up the numbers, but even 6" deep water traveling
> at a moderate speed can exert force well beyond the strength of a very
> strong human.
>
> Whitewater rescue people are well aware of the force involved. Ever
> see an aluminum canoe bent around a rock until bow and stern touch?
> Happy trails,
> Gary (net.yogi.bear)
The Backpacker's Field Manual (Rick Curtis, Three Rivers Press) details
some really good procedures for determining the safety of, and crossing
rivers, streams and creeks.
Eugene Miya
net.pine-marten's.
>> cards?
The net."subtle"-apteryx wrote:
>Yes, had to Google Manzanar. Striking scenic background for
>such a travesty to play out... 10,000 people at that site. Profiling
>at a gross level. Round up the (usual) suspects,-- they're easy
>to identify. Or not, really. Have we come far? Not, too.
Oh yeah, mom and some of the uncles were likely interned there for some
period. Yes: that's where Ansel Adams tooks his Mt. Williamson photo.
The uncles of course during that period were willing to savage members
of the Weirmacht (just go right throught them).
More so I meant the Alpine cards.
>>>> [... build a bridge ...]
>> bridging tanks which can throw
>> 48 ft. bridge over a river. These tanks are very impressive.
>
>Neat technology, but tough to backpack. I presumed OP wanted
>human portable technology and techniques.
Ladders can be turned into bridges.
>Waders,-- less complicated and flashy technology, but tough
>for me to justify where I hike...
Heavy.
>simple and recently effective stream crossing technique is drought.
ROFTFL!
>>>pole vaulting
>>>rope swings...
>> Via ferranti thread. Or Cliffhanger if you want the rope bridges.
>> It depends if you read Into the Wild close enough.
>
>People regularly drive around road-closed barricades at creeks
>during flash floods. Darwin regularly rewards.
You had to be there.
>"Sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game."
> -- Joshua, _War Games_
A smart guy. You that is.
>>>Think inexperienced hikers, cotton socks, poorly fitted,
>>>poorly constructed boots. Those of us who continued
>> Consider wet suit booties.
>
>30+ years ago, good wet/dry footwear choices were much more
>limited in availability. Today, there are all sorts of sandals, shoes,
>boots for paddling, river running, etc...
I like my kayaking wet suit booties.
I can walk around comfortability.
>My son is going to "northern tier" in MN this summer, canoeing.
>They're recommending "jungle boots". Not clear why. Muck
>and mire? My experience with the other "high adventure" camp
>for this well.known.org leads me to wonder about their conventional
>wisdom. %^)
Remember: good socks.
Foot powder can help in the evenings.
>Need to do more research and ask on 'nother newsgroup what's
>the best footwear for the sort of portaging and day hiking they may
>expect.
Oh, OK.
--
Jon Meinecke
> The net."subtle"-apteryx wrote:
>
> Oh yeah, mom and some of the uncles were likely interned
> there for some period.
Irrational actions in a time of war? Hmmm... Do it in the
name of security.
> The uncles of course during that period were willing to savage
> members of the Weirmacht (just go right throught them).
Many served.
> Yes: that's where Ansel Adams tooks his Mt. Williamson photo.
I really need some topographic relief around now... (flatland fever)
I used to have a poseter of one of Adam's aspen grove photo in
my office, when I had an office.
> More so I meant the Alpine cards.
No. Look forward to it.
> Ladders can be turned into bridges.
A bit of lashing can make a ladder, a bit more, a
bridge, -- with time and materials, of course. Monkey
bridges used to be common demo/display fixture.
"Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone? "
Rearranging rocks to make creek crossing stepping
stones is popular for reasonable shallow cases.
"She turned me into a newt!"
McGuyver might improvise a zipline to cross...
>>My son is going to "northern tier" in MN this summer, canoeing.
>>They're recommending "jungle boots". Not clear why. Muck
>>and mire? My experience with the other "high adventure" camp
>>for this well.known.org leads me to wonder about their conventional
>>wisdom. %^)
>
> Remember: good socks.
Merino and polypro. Neoprene for cold and wet?
> Foot powder can help in the evenings.
Foot powder unlikely allowed. Bears, ya know... %^P
Oh My!
Jon Meinecke