WARNING: inductive LED flashlights
Eugene Miya
At the end of the Conference we were all given goody bags, and a second
separate commercial plug. The goody bags varied and mostly consisted of
various fun toys, but I got a highly useful induction flashlight (you
may have seen one of these with the magnet which goes back and forth in
a clear housing): really quite useful.
Until I made a test last evening. I realized that they have a powerful
magnet, but didn't realize just how powerful. So I pulled out my Silva
Ranger and moved the flashflight near it: it influences the compass
within more than an arm's length.
Now a few people bring up the issue of naturally occuring magnetic
anomalies. I think panel 6 only has about a half dozen of those.
Most people never encounter them and likely never will.
However as these flashlights proliferate they can increase the
likelihood of bad compass readings. So I am going to amend panel 6 to
include this warning.
I'm going to do a wrist watch test with a replacement Casio wrist
compass, and I am going to take another distance measurement next to
a 5 Gauss field at my local MRI machine as baselines.
This post can be ignored by the people I don't like (Rick: you are NOT
on my shit list). Get in trouble. Bye bye.
--
JonK
flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
when you most need them.
We've bought several of these from various places, including our local
public market. At least some of them lack real magnets, and the coil
where electricity is supposedly induced by shaking isn't connected to
anything. Instead, a small battery powers the LED until the battery
runs down Then all the shaking in the world won't make it go again.
A potentially destructive test is to leave the flashlight on until it
runs down and then see if it can be revived by shaking. Of course, if
you have one of the fakes, you know have a useless flashlight (they do
not come apart to replace the battery).
(Checking for a real magnet with a compass will work non-destructively,
but the flashlight may still be a fake.)
A friend at our local science museum discovered these fakes when he was
trying to time how long the flashlight would run after a fixed number
of shakes. He then took the flashlight apart and discovered the ruse.
We bought fakes and real inductive flashlights at the same public
market. They were all made in China, so that's no help.
hlil...@juno.com
JonK wrote:
> Here's a totally different warning about inductive (or Faraday) LED
> flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
> when you most need them.
...
I hope someone has reported that to whoever investigates such things in
your state, likely the attorney general's office or some sort of trade
commission. Depending on how agressive those folks are, they might go
after the people importing and selling the fakes.
Eugene Miya
JonK <Kap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Here's a totally different warning about inductive (or Faraday) LED
>flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
>when you most need them.
Good call.
--
Ed Huesers
>> Here's a totally different warning about inductive (or Faraday) LED
>> flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
>> when you most need them.
Eugene Miya wrote:
> Good call.
Heh, and to think I worked on the prototype some ten years ago.
Ed Huesers
http://www.grandshelters.com
Ilja Friedel
>> JonK wrote:
>>> Here's a totally different warning about inductive (or Faraday) LED
>>> flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
>>> when you most need them.
> Eugene Miya wrote:
>> Good call.
> Heh, and to think I worked on the prototype some ten years ago.
The whole story is just pretty. I have always been suspicious about those,
from bad experience from squeezable flashlights that I wanted to love. I
had a nice metal one from the Soviet Union in the 80's. It was amazing!
Operating it (bulb, not LED!) required building up finger grip (good for
climbing, I guess). But the interior was plastic and it broke. Got another
western made in the 90's. Fully plastic. Broke. And now those weird
shakers? There are also devices with cranks. Machines get more efficient.
And people remain gullible.
Still waiting for plutonium batteries. They had small ones for heart
implants in the 60's. Might have to mark those graves like they did for
the INL SL-1 guys. But having one should aid in S/R work.
Ilja.
David Dermott
> Rather than get outdoors last weekend I had the annual Conference to go to.
>
> At the end of the Conference we were all given goody bags, and a second
> separate commercial plug. The goody bags varied and mostly consisted of
> various fun toys, but I got a highly useful induction flashlight (you
> may have seen one of these with the magnet which goes back and forth in
> a clear housing): really quite useful.
>
> Until I made a test last evening. I realized that they have a powerful
> magnet, but didn't realize just how powerful. So I pulled out my Silva
> Ranger and moved the flashflight near it: it influences the compass
> within more than an arm's length.
>
> Now a few people bring up the issue of naturally occuring magnetic
> anomalies. I think panel 6 only has about a half dozen of those.
> Most people never encounter them and likely never will.
> However as these flashlights proliferate they can increase the
> likelihood of bad compass readings. So I am going to amend panel 6 to
> include this warning.
>
I don't know if this was mentioned before:
Film cameras with a motor operated film advance have magnets (indeed all
DC motors have magnets). Tested my old 35 mm compact camera and it affects
a compass within about 10 cm. It could be a problem if you have the camera
around your neck, or in a short pocket, etc. Since I (and most people)
now use digital cameras, this is less of a problem.
Also, speakers in radios, walkie-talkies etc used to have magnets.
Maybe the small speakers in the newer radios/ cell phones etc are
now non-magnetic (piezo-electric)?
--
David Dermott , Wolfville Ridge, Nova Scotia, Canada
tour skating links: http://www.dermott.ca/ski/skating.html
axolotl
David Dermott wrote:
> Film cameras with a motor operated film advance have magnets (indeed all
> DC motors have magnets). . . .
> Also, speakers in radios, walkie-talkies etc used to have magnets.
The ground itself has magnets! Been in a few places in Eastern
Washington, Kenai Peninsula in Alaska, etc., where exposed basalt rock
ridges could make your compass spin like a top as you walked along
them. Other areas, where apparently the rock was just beneath the
soil, you could sight a distant peak, walk a few hundred feet and sight
it again, the magnetic bearing would be 30 degrees different.
Also had a problem with a Silva compass, the type you hold up to your
eye and sight through to take a reading. Turned out my eyeglass frame
was made of magnetic metal.
hlil...@juno.com
David Dermott wrote:
> Film cameras with a motor operated film advance have magnets (indeed all
> DC motors have magnets).
Well, they all have magnets when they are running. However in some
cases it may be an electromagnet created by the current that runs the
motor. Often that will be around a core of course and the core will
usually retain some magnetism even without a current. However it is
possible to construct a DC electric motor with no permanent magnet.
Back in my high school physics class we had a couple and we had to
learn how a series wound motor and a parallel wound motor were wired.
cf the section "Wound field DC motor" at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor.
Of course you are correct that any magnet can affect a compass. Anyone
with anything like a motor driven camera etc. should be careful about
using a compass near it.
Ilja Friedel
> Ilja Friedel <il...@inky.caltech.edu> wrote in news:ejj1ti$j8u$1
> @naig.caltech.edu:
>> Still waiting for plutonium batteries. They had small ones for heart
>> implants in the 60's. Might have to mark those graves like they did for
>> the INL SL-1 guys. But having one should aid in S/R work.
> Why? So you'll melt the snow around you when buried or so they can track
> the radioactive coyotes?
Naw, not that bad that it would melt the snow. Low power. But the coyotes
might already be out there. I should be chasing them with a geiger
counter! For the morbid, you might find these batteries at your local
cemetery:
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/enforcement/actions/materials/ea97005.html
Ilja.
ACAR
> There are also devices with cranks.
I've had one of those for a couple of years. It's heavy but works as
advertised. I think I got mine at a Restoration Hardware Outlet store
for around $10.
Lord Slime
news:455b9564$1@darkstar...
> So I pulled out my Silva
> Ranger and moved the flashflight near it: it influences the compass
> within more than an arm's length.
In a similar vein:
Some people rely (somewhat foolishly) on the compass that's
built-into their altimeter "sportwatches" and some other devices.
Be aware that these compasses are destroyed almost
instantly if you use a radio (5w).
I don't have any specific data on whether a FRS radio or
cell-phone will destroy them (lower power), but I suspect
they will if you get them close enough. Since these are
hand-held devices, wearing the watch on your wrist is
pretty damn close.
- Lord Slime
Sue
"Lord Slime" <jbyr...@SPAMfriiPLEASE.com> wrote:
I also wonder if it will demagnetize all your credit and ATM cards,
should you put your wallet nearby it.
You
<Pine.LNX.4.44.06111...@localhost.localdomain>,
David Dermott <der...@nOsPAM.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> (indeed all DC motors have magnets)
Obviously you have little knowledge of how DC Motors are actually
designed, and built.
hlil...@juno.com
Lord Slime wrote:
> Some people rely (somewhat foolishly) on the compass that's
> built-into their altimeter "sportwatches" and some other devices.
A watch compass ain't gonna give you the accuracy of a Ranger or even
an orientering compass. It is, however a handy back-up and if you know
how to use it will be enough for most use.
> Be aware that these compasses are destroyed almost
> instantly if you use a radio (5w).
Can you say more? I've not had that experience. I've used both Suunto
and Nike watches and have talked on radios while wearing them and never
had a problem. I do wear the watch on my left wrist and usually (but
not always) use my right hand for the radio. Of course I also seldom
use the radio at the 5W setting, that gives marginal improvement at
best since most of those radios are pretty much line of sight.
> I don't have any specific data on whether a FRS radio or
> cell-phone will destroy them (lower power), but I suspect
> they will if you get them close enough. Since these are
> hand-held devices, wearing the watch on your wrist is
> pretty damn close.
I've used a cell phone (which I do hold in my left hand, near the
watch) and have not noticed any problems with the compass on the watch.
One thing that might be confounding data here is that most of the watch
compasses need re-calibration from time to time. I suppose it's
possible that a radio might uncalibrate it though that hasn't been my
experience. Usually they're pretty easy to re-calibrate if you realize
they need it.
Galen Hekhuis
I don't have much experience with DC motors either, but I do know enough to
know that anytime you have moving electrons you also have magnetism. So I
would be interested in how you design or build any kind of electric motor
without magnets
Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghek...@earthlink.net
We are the CroMagnon of the future
Hal Murray
>
>Some people rely (somewhat foolishly) on the compass that's
>built-into their altimeter "sportwatches" and some other devices.
>
>Be aware that these compasses are destroyed almost
>instantly if you use a radio (5w).
What's the time scale? Does it burn it out so it never
works again, or just confuse it until you turn the radio off?
Best compass note I've ever seen was on an air-navigation chart.
It was something close to:
Warning magnetic glitches in this area.
Compasses may be off up to 179 degrees.
--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
Eugene Miya
Ilja Friedel <il...@inky.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In rec.backcountry Ed Huesers <e...@grandshelters.com> wrote:
>>> JonK wrote:
>>>> Here's a totally different warning about inductive (or Faraday) LED
>>>> flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
>>>> when you most need them.
>
>The whole story is just pretty. I have always been suspicious about those,
Well I think it was an amusing attempting/effort. We are always trying
to improve on technology, it's just that we sometimes lose sight.
Like Usenet for instance ;^).
>from bad experience from squeezable flashlights that I wanted to love. I
>had a nice metal one from the Soviet Union in the 80's. It was amazing!
>Operating it (bulb, not LED!) required building up finger grip (good for
>climbing, I guess). But the interior was plastic and it broke. Got another
>western made in the 90's. Fully plastic. Broke. And now those weird
>shakers? There are also devices with cranks. Machines get more efficient.
>And people remain gullible.
Well I've now use the crank Free Play Radio (not bad) and I've seen the
the squeeze lights. The real difference these days is LEDs (Murray would
tell you). I think squeeze doesn't help with hands free, but I've used
and collected various photovolatic systems: camp lanterns and laptop
chargers, and they are useful. The lamps saved batteries and fuel on
2-3 week long expeditions to Baja. In the Antarctic we used military
AN/PPxyz HF radios which are solar charged (the DOD appreciates solar).
>Still waiting for plutonium batteries. They had small ones for heart
>implants in the 60's. Might have to mark those graves like they did for
>the INL SL-1 guys. But having one should aid in S/R work.
Oh yeah, I got a book about those guys who were killed in that accident
on visiting the Nevada test site. You are thinking of the SNAP class of
RTG power systems using Pu-238 decay.
--
Eugene Miya
axolotl <axol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The ground itself has magnets! Been in a few places in
>Eastern Washington, Kenai Peninsula in Alaska, etc., where exposed basalt rock
>ridges could make your compass spin like a top as you walked along
--
Eugene Miya
Hal Murray <hmu...@suespammers.org> wrote:
>Best compass note I've ever seen was on an air-navigation chart.
>It was something close to:
> Warning magnetic glitches in this area.
> Compasses may be off up to 179 degrees.
Hey man, I've have 175 in MacTown with our friends.
But most of the time I had my Ranger's declination at around 95 or 97
degrees with them. When you are that close, you just don't care.
You just substitute S for N and N-S on the color of the needle.
The weird thing is curvature.
It's not nearly as bad in AK, but one of these days I have to get to
Devon island for work.
My favorite sectional text is:
> Warning rapidly rising terrain.
It's knowing how to fly thru Kearsarge pass, slight left turn at
Charlotte dome.
Anyways not going flying now. Want a do a hike or a climb? 8^)
--
Lord Slime
> Lord Slime wrote:
> > Be aware that these compasses are destroyed almost
> > instantly if you use a radio (5w).
>
> Can you say more? I've not had that experience. I've used both Suunto
> and Nike watches and have talked on radios while wearing them and never
> had a problem. I do wear the watch on my left wrist and usually (but
> not always) use my right hand for the radio. Of course I also seldom
And Hal Murray wrote:
> What's the time scale? Does it burn it out so it never
> works again, or just confuse it until you turn the radio off?
The experience I had was hanging around a bunch of professional
guides using commercial radios around 160kHz, always set
at 5w. They had all bought these snazzy altimeter watches (5 of
them) and the compasses all died by noon the first working day.
They didn't suspect the radios until I thought of it. They carry their
radios in a "shirt" pocket, and use their left hands (with the watches
on the left wrist) to key the transmitter.
The last guide, who didn't work the first day, did a test. The
compass "pegged" whenever the transmitter was keyed, and
he ended up burning his out too.
> > I don't have any specific data on whether a FRS radio or
> > cell-phone will destroy them
> I've used a cell phone (which I do hold in my left hand, near the
> watch) and have not noticed any problems with the compass
> on the watch.
All I can say is YMMV.
- Lord Slime
David Dermott
>
> Film cameras with a motor operated film advance have magnets (indeed all
> DC motors have magnets).
OOPS! I should think before making such sweeping generalizations! Of
course, both the stator and rotor in a DC motor can be electromagnetic
windings and thus only affect a compass while running. But most of the
small, cheap motors in toys, electric shavers, etc. have a permanent
magnet instead of a field coil. I just checked an electric shaver
and a battery powered drill and both deflect a compass noticeably,
even when not powered up.
--
David Dermott , Wolfville Ridge, Nova Scotia, Canada
WWW pages: http://www.dermott.ca/index.html
axolotl
Eugene Miya wrote> >Eastern Washington, Kenai Peninsula in Alaska, etc., where exposed basalt rock . . .
> Please be more specific.
Blue Mountains, north of Ruckel Junction in Washington / Oregon.
Resurrection River, 20 miles from mouth, in creekbed tributaries.
Ilja Friedel
> In article <ejj1ti$j8u$1...@naig.caltech.edu>,
> Ilja Friedel <il...@inky.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>In rec.backcountry Ed Huesers <e...@grandshelters.com> wrote:
>>>> JonK wrote:
>>>>> Here's a totally different warning about inductive (or Faraday) LED
>>>>> flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
>>>>> when you most need them.
>>> Heh, and to think I worked on the prototype some ten years ago.
>>
>>The whole story is just pretty. I have always been suspicious about those,
> Well I think it was an amusing attempting/effort. We are always trying
> to improve on technology, it's just that we sometimes lose sight.
> Like Usenet for instance ;^).
Or lose sight how much 2 AA batteries store. About 6kJ. Not much? Having a
stationary bicycle one might be able to create enough power to charge them
in half a minute. But it is very dubious to assume that any kind of finger
action on a mechanical device (assuming some loss due to friction etc)
would be able to do this in less than 15 minutes to half hour.
> Well I've now use the crank Free Play Radio (not bad) and I've seen the
> the squeeze lights. The real difference these days is LEDs (Murray would
> tell you). I think squeeze doesn't help with hands free, but I've used
> and collected various photovolatic systems: camp lanterns and laptop
> chargers, and they are useful. The lamps saved batteries and fuel on
> 2-3 week long expeditions to Baja. In the Antarctic we used military
> AN/PPxyz HF radios which are solar charged (the DOD appreciates solar).
I am interested in the foil-like solar panels. If prices get down to
standard fabric one might be able to generate a hundred Watts while
hiking. I am still trying to figure out the killer app for a hiker.
Chilling a beer can still takes more energy. What else is out there?
>>Still waiting for plutonium batteries. They had small ones for heart
>>implants in the 60's. Might have to mark those graves like they did for
>>the INL SL-1 guys. But having one should aid in S/R work.
> Oh yeah, I got a book about those guys who were killed in that accident
> on visiting the Nevada test site.
When I drove past INL past summer I found the area creepy. It was not
still a surprise to learn of this mystery.
> You are thinking of the SNAP class of RTG power systems using Pu-238
> decay.
I was not aware of the name, but the principle. I just learned of the
Price-Anderson Act. The Germans have a similar insurance policy. It is
sad that nuclear power gets subsidised so much. Wellfare energy farming? I
do prefer wind farms.
Ilja.
Pat O'Connell
> In rec.backcountry Eugene Miya <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>> In article <ejj1ti$j8u$1...@naig.caltech.edu>,
>> Ilja Friedel <il...@inky.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>>In rec.backcountry Ed Huesers <e...@grandshelters.com> wrote:
>>>>> JonK wrote:
>>>>>> Here's a totally different warning about inductive (or Faraday) LED
>>>>>> flashlights: some of them are fakes. And the fakes could fail to work
>>>>>> when you most need them.
>>>> Heh, and to think I worked on the prototype some ten years ago.
>>>
>>>The whole story is just pretty. I have always been suspicious about those,
>
>> Well I think it was an amusing attempting/effort. We are always trying
>> to improve on technology, it's just that we sometimes lose sight.
>> Like Usenet for instance ;^).
>
> I am interested in the foil-like solar panels. If prices get down to
> standard fabric one might be able to generate a hundred Watts while
> hiking. I am still trying to figure out the killer app for a hiker.
Someone makes a folding solar panel to charge batteries and iPods. See
the latest Complete Walker; Chip Rawlins has been monkeying around with
solar panels and NiMH rechargeable batteries to power ZipStoves and
flashlights.
> Chilling a beer can still takes more energy. What else is out there?
Cold water in a stream.
>>>Still waiting for plutonium batteries. They had small ones for heart
>>>implants in the 60's. Might have to mark those graves like they did for
>>>the INL SL-1 guys. But having one should aid in S/R work.
Those people would probably set off airport radiation detectors today.
> I was not aware of the name, but the principle. I just learned of the
> Price-Anderson Act. The Germans have a similar insurance policy. It is
> sad that nuclear power gets subsidised so much. Wellfare energy farming? I
> do prefer wind farms.
No energy generation method is perfect.
IIRC wind farms can kill birds, who fly into the turbine blades. Many
wind farms are also subsidized.
--
Pat O'Connell
[note munged EMail address]
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
peter
> Or lose sight how much 2 AA batteries store. About 6kJ.
Good alkaline AA cells are rated at 2900 mA-hr at a nominal 1.5 V. A
pair would therefore store an energy of 2.9 x 3 = 8.7 W-hr. That's
over 31 kW-sec. or kJoules. Good rechargeable NiMH cells are a little
less (but able to much more efficiently power high-current devices).
They're around 2700 mA-hr at 1.25 V, or about 24 kJoules per pair.
> Not much? Having a
> stationary bicycle one might be able to create enough power to charge them
> in half a minute.
A decent cyclist should be able to generate a couple hundred Watts of
usable power for short periods. Therefore charging a pair of NiMH AA
cells would take a bit over two minutes of substantial effort.
> But it is very dubious to assume that any kind of finger
> action on a mechanical device (assuming some loss due to friction etc)
> would be able to do this in less than 15 minutes to half hour.
Agreed, and that would be very optimistic.
Ilja Friedel
> Ilja Friedel wrote:
>> Or lose sight how much 2 AA batteries store. About 6kJ.
> Good alkaline AA cells are rated at 2900 mA-hr at a nominal 1.5 V. A
> pair would therefore store an energy of 2.9 x 3 = 8.7 W-hr. That's
> over 31 kW-sec. or kJoules. Good rechargeable NiMH cells are a little
> less (but able to much more efficiently power high-current devices).
> They're around 2700 mA-hr at 1.25 V, or about 24 kJoules per pair.
My bad. Somehow I assumed 1500mAh to 2000mAh. To my shame I also thought
an hour had 1000 seconds. Evil metric system! ;-) (We still need 10 hours
a day with 100 minutes and 100 seconds. Fun, fun. One would only have to
work for 3 hours during the week...)
>> Not much? Having a
>> stationary bicycle one might be able to create enough power to charge them
>> in half a minute.
> A decent cyclist should be able to generate a couple hundred Watts of
> usable power for short periods. Therefore charging a pair of NiMH AA
> cells would take a bit over two minutes of substantial effort.
I read a cyclist could output between 1kW and 2kW peak power. But it is
unrealistic to assume he could do this very long or conversion would be
very efficient. I once tried jump starting a small car by pushing it hard
for about 100 yards. I computed my power output to be roughly in that
range. I also felt sick all day after that. No fun at all.
Ilja.
Ilja Friedel
you always write about target practice. I bit the bullet and took some
classes for .22 caliber handguns. The NRA teacher was amazingly
conservative. And half of the class were 60 year olds who wanted to buy
guns for self-defense. Scary is, they were not very good shooters. (My
South African coworkers always say the South Bay is an amazing place. Not
only has nobody ever experienced a violent crime, but also nobody seems to
know anybody to whom such a misfortune happened. In other words they
believe that even Oakland is a perfectly safe neighborhood.)
But I digress. I had to learn that the ranges employ a buddy system.
Nobody wants to take responsibility anymore! Those perfect conservatives
don't trust a random person to rent a gun on your own. They want you to
show up with a friend. I have been explained that if you are alone, they
will assume that you are too cheap to buy a gun for committing suicide.
Trying to save a few bucks! I still find the idea curious. Is this
standard practice at the places you have been?
Ilja.
Ilja Friedel
>> action on a mechanical device (assuming some loss due to friction etc)
>> would be able to do this in less than 15 minutes to half hour.
> Agreed, and that would be very optimistic.
I just saw the production version of MIT's 100 dollar laptop. It is a 200
dollar laptop now (inflation?), but in this context more interesting - the
prototype everybody was talking about had a build-in generator:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Laptop-crank.jpg
The production version lost it:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/B1_Pictures
"We have several groups looking at different human-power options,
including a hand crank, a foot treadle, and a pully system. Our goal is a
minimum of a 1:10 ratio of "cranking" to use, e.g., one minute of cranking
give you ten minutes of use. Note that we've determined that built in
cranks are less efficient and impractical; human powered systems are best
done for ergonomic reasons in separate devices."
What a scam MIT has become.
Ilja.
Eugene Miya
Ilja Friedel <il...@sue.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In rec.backcountry Eugene Miya <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>Hey 'Gene,
Hay Ilja!
>you always write about target practice. I bit the bullet and took some
>classes for .22 caliber handguns. The NRA teacher was amazingly
>conservative. And half of the class were 60 year olds who wanted to buy
>guns for self-defense. Scary is, they were not very good shooters. (My
>South African coworkers always say the South Bay is an amazing place. Not
>only has nobody ever experienced a violent crime, but also nobody seems to
>know anybody to whom such a misfortune happened. In other words they
>believe that even Oakland is a perfectly safe neighborhood.)
Well, some of my Alaskan trips require require some degree of
certification with fire arms and that requires annual testing.
Now the Univ. of Alaska, Fairbanks has an annual 1 day class, but local
to me the USGS covers this OK (with 1-3 days depending on currency),
and it's free. The AK guys (the bio guys are insistent, and the NPS
guys as well). The USGS came close to losing a employee about 3 decades ago.
My geo friends on the other hand rarely see bears except its easier when
flying. There just aren't as many bears (and wolves, and ...) in AK as
before.
I know people who have been murdered in the US as well as outside.
I've worked on one FBI case which started as a kidnapping and turned to
a murder. I know unsolved murder sites in Yosemite. But the US
compared to other countries is comparatively safe (i.e., most problems
are avoidable). I think Pelton's star rating systems (the US is a
1-star calibration [a criminal place]) to 5-stars is probably pretty good.
I am not certain what you want a .22 pistol for. Most whom I know who
have them will bag and eat squirrels for instance. By contrast I know
women who own Smith & Wesson or Ruger .44 mags (largely for tight in
camp bear defense [one runs the USGS Bering Glacier camp: she also used
to own a Uzi, but that's another story] long barrels are just too clumsy
in that circumstance).
So I have to carry this notebook and accumulate info on the shotguns or
bears (we get CDs and PPT now, but we get the most up to date info on
bears because of the Alaskan Bear Science Center that I loan stuff to
friends who work in Yosemite and else where in the NPS [another part of
the Dept. of the Interior, go figure]).
As a digression, for an old officemate in the latter stages of life, I'm
also trying weapons of intermediate destruction: just to see how tax
payer dollars get spent (the FBI guys I worked with once made a call
while he was at a shooting range [quite amusing, I've done the same
voice mail]): submachine guns (the things you see on the TV in movies
and news), belt fed MGs (historic as well as current [need to try a
Civil War era Gatling gun]), grenade launchers (so this is what Arnold
fired?, the Roach in AN, MJ Fox in Casualities of War {an amazing story:
he hit an incoming tossed grenade, saved his life},etc.), flame throwers,
cannon (there is a cannon shoot in a few weeks), mortars (60 mm to
bowling pins and balls), driven around APCs and tanks and other tracked
vehicles, containers for small tactical nuclear weapons, etc.
Most of this stuff isn't as good as some may have you believe.
The reality is that target shooting is a skill. 1/n^2 works against you
and even a .50 cal gun gets tiny after a few tens of yards, much less a
.22. But even a .22 can in rare instances cause a fatality (instant or
lingering). Most engagements happen close. But I am amazed what people
like the Swiss can do at 300 Ms. You don't want to deal with silly chance.
Practice makes a difference.
>But I digress. I had to learn that the ranges employ a buddy system.
>Nobody wants to take responsibility anymore! Those perfect conservatives
>don't trust a random person to rent a gun on your own. They want you to
>show up with a friend. I have been explained that if you are alone, they
>will assume that you are too cheap to buy a gun for committing suicide.
>Trying to save a few bucks! I still find the idea curious. Is this
>standard practice at the places you have been?
Well for the certification, I do yes. There is some benefit in safety
in some educated numbers. I have to field test to get my little
annual piece of paper. And they measure things like partner communication.
And I can understand why. We go over things like radio discipline,
getting into and out of helos, fixed wing aircraft (like bear spray does
not a happy camper make for pilots), boats, telling you partner that
your magazine is running low (multiple bear attacks are quite unlikely,
but you never know). We get taught to proceed expeditantly but not hastely.
Until this past year, I just did the 1 day currency test, but with a
combination of changing field camp managers and possible site changes
for research, I started considering more than just the issue shotgun.
We had 3 days or rain. I had not used the .44 mag for a few years.
I didn't get a single round on the paper target. But I wasn't alone.
My partner did (she sees a couple dozen grizzlies every field seasons on
the volcanos she works on). She prefers to carry a short stock
Winchester (which I tried for the first time this year: need special
ammo, jams, etc., shot guns are really simple and have other advantages
[this is not hunting], and I did retest with a .30-06 rifle getting fast
hand loading down better.
I did pretty well on the field test this year. In the rain. I avoided
(went around one problem by spotting it early), and I got my required hits.
The timed test didn't quite goes as well but adequate. We didn't do a
charging bear scenario because the track shorted out in the rain but
I've done that before. I have no problems being ruthless.
I appreciate what the Israelis and the Secret Service do with Uzis,
that a sniper kid with an AK-47 can be just as hazardous as a .22 at
close range or even a car. That Stens sometimes fire extra rounds,
that Thompsons are comparatively heavy, what M-4/M-16s can do, etc.
That my Quaker/vegie (no kidding) friends are getting a .44 for working
in AK, and they want to me practice with the shotgun with slugs for the
trips when I stand guard while they work. And maybe one of these days
I will take the Specimen Collection class.
It depends on what you want to do Ilja.
The US isn't anything like a Pelton 5* country.
--
Eugene Miya
Ilja Friedel <il...@clyde.caltech.edu> wrote:
>I just saw the production version of MIT's 100 dollar laptop. It is a 200
>dollar laptop now (inflation?), but in this context more interesting - the
>prototype everybody was talking about had a build-in generator:
>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Laptop-crank.jpg
Naw they are hoping for scaling to drive the cost down.
This is why they want big overall production runs and not small scale runs.
While I like the Free Play crank idea, I think photovoltaics and
batteries are better for now.
>The production version lost it:
>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/B1_Pictures
>
>"We have several groups looking at different human-power options,
>including a hand crank, a foot treadle, and a pully system. Our goal is a
>minimum of a 1:10 ratio of "cranking" to use, e.g., one minute of cranking
>give you ten minutes of use. Note that we've determined that built in
>cranks are less efficient and impractical; human powered systems are best
>done for ergonomic reasons in separate devices."
I have used military herdy-gerties. And hand and foot cranks.
They aren't bad.
>What a scam MIT has become.
I think, somewhat too early to say on the laptop.
Scam in other ways, however.
Other institutions are bigger scams.
--
Ilja Friedel
> In article <ejsklb$5d9$1...@naig.caltech.edu>,
> Ilja Friedel <il...@clyde.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>I just saw the production version of MIT's 100 dollar laptop. It is a 200
>>dollar laptop now (inflation?), but in this context more interesting - the
>>prototype everybody was talking about had a build-in generator:
>>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Laptop-crank.jpg
> Naw they are hoping for scaling to drive the cost down.
> This is why they want big overall production runs and not small scale runs.
A quarter billion here, a few hundred million there, and if you don't
watch it it adds up to real money.
> While I like the Free Play crank idea, I think photovoltaics and
> batteries are better for now.
I don't know if the new model has batteries. But it for sure does not have
photovoltaics. Solar panels would completely destroy their budget.
>>What a scam MIT has become.
> I think, somewhat too early to say on the laptop.
We will see. I am afraid the poor countries are wasting their money.
Ilja.
Eugene Miya
>>>dollar laptop now (inflation?), but in this context more interesting - the
>>>prototype everybody was talking about had a build-in generator:
>>>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Laptop-crank.jpg
>> Naw they are hoping for scaling to drive the cost down.
>> This is why they want big overall production runs and not small scale runs.
In article <ek2mh6$4t0$1...@naig.caltech.edu>,
Ilja Friedel <il...@sue.caltech.edu> wrote:
>A quarter billion here, a few hundred million there, and if you don't
>watch it it adds up to real money.
I know some of the crew working on this and there's a talk from the end
of Sept. at Stanford on it (with slides and video). It's early enough
that I still give them the benefit of the doubt. The geeky nerds not
grounded in reality is a common complaint. I think it's too early and I
know some of the peripheral players (and they have made serious attempts
to bring the Internet to places like Laos).
>> While I like the Free Play crank idea, I think photovoltaics and
>> batteries are better for now.
>
>I don't know if the new model has batteries. But it for sure does not have
>photovoltaics. Solar panels would completely destroy their budget.
Solar is coming down in price and yield and flux are improving.
You need batteries like a capacator to even out use.
>>>What a scam MIT has become.
>> I think, somewhat too early to say on the laptop.
>
>We will see. I am afraid the poor countries are wasting their money.
Well I think they are merely test sites and not necessarily paying for
the early models. Its covered in the video.
--
Ilja Friedel
> In article <ejrmej$qaj$2...@naig.caltech.edu>,
> Ilja Friedel <il...@sue.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>In rec.backcountry Eugene Miya <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>>Hey 'Gene,
> Hay Ilja!
Hi Eugene,
I might have asked this before, but I am still wondering if this is your
given name, or a name you have chosen.
>>you always write about target practice. I bit the bullet and took some
>>classes for .22 caliber handguns. The NRA teacher was amazingly
>>conservative. And half of the class were 60 year olds who wanted to buy
>>guns for self-defense. Scary is, they were not very good shooters. (My
>>South African coworkers always say the South Bay is an amazing place. Not
>>only has nobody ever experienced a violent crime, but also nobody seems to
>>know anybody to whom such a misfortune happened. In other words they
>>believe that even Oakland is a perfectly safe neighborhood.)
> I know people who have been murdered in the US as well as outside.
> I've worked on one FBI case which started as a kidnapping and turned to
> a murder.
I am not sure one should count in such informal statistics people with a
professional interest in crimes.
> I think Pelton's star rating systems (the US is a
> 1-star calibration [a criminal place]) to 5-stars is probably pretty good.
I don't know the star rating. But it seems to me the US should get a 2
star rating. (Is one star good or bad?)
> I am not certain what you want a .22 pistol for.
The same one would want a violin for. It is utterly useless, but still
entertaining. It would give me inexpensive exercise. Something a .44
magnum would not do. (One dollar a pop?!)
> Most whom I know who have them will bag and eat squirrels for
> instance.
I hear squirrels are tasty. *slurp* They also like stealing food that I
hang. (Die, squirrel, die!) No, I don't want to own a handgun. Just rent
them when needed.
> cannon (there is a cannon shoot in a few weeks)
Standing behind the cannon at 'tech when shot gives quite a jolt. Not to
be compared with anything else I have observed. Will you use projectiles?
> The reality is that target shooting is a skill. 1/n^2 works against you
> and even a .50 cal gun gets tiny after a few tens of yards, much less a
> .22.
A strange way to express this, but true. I am more interested in shooting
a rifle. Not as much fun maybe, but at least I can see a potential use
(hunting). I am acquiring skills and maybe they will open me options in
the future. Maybe I am just wasting time.
> But I am amazed what people like the Swiss can do at 300 Ms. You don't
> want to deal with silly chance.
The Swiss are silly. (Last country in Europe to have one man bunkers all
over the place.) But what are 300 Ms?
> for research, I started considering more than just the issue shotgun.
> We had 3 days or rain. I had not used the .44 mag for a few years.
> I didn't get a single round on the paper target. But I wasn't alone.
What was the distance, 50 yards? Did you watch Babel?
> I appreciate what the Israelis and the Secret Service do with Uzis,
> that a sniper kid with an AK-47 can be just as hazardous as a .22 at
> close range or even a car.
The uzis are 0.22 diameter. Just as the M16. The AK-47 is .30. I
understand that there is a difference to handgun calibers. But the
automatic guns were not made for accurate targeting. More for random hits.
> That my Quaker/vegie (no kidding) friends are getting a .44 for working
> in AK, and they want to me practice with the shotgun with slugs for the
> trips when I stand guard while they work.
In the wilderness it makes somewhat sense to have a buddy system. But do
you protect each other from committing suicide? That is what is bugging
me. Cl
> It depends on what you want to do Ilja.
> The US isn't anything like a Pelton 5* country.
Iraq? Well, US citizens are getting training there.
Tioga pass is still open. Might take this route to get to the warm valley.
I wouldn't mind exploring some of the roads in Owens valley (Onion etc.),
hot springs. But it is very, very cold there at night and I just recovered
from a cold (barely). Plan to stop at Manzanar. Ansel Adams took some nice
shots.
Ilja.
Ilja Friedel
>>>>production version of MIT's 100 dollar laptop. It is a 200
>>>>dollar laptop now (inflation?), but in this context more interesting - the
>>>>prototype everybody was talking about had a build-in generator:
>>>>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Laptop-crank.jpg
>>> Naw they are hoping for scaling to drive the cost down.
>>> This is why they want big overall production runs and not small scale runs.
> In article <ek2mh6$4t0$1...@naig.caltech.edu>,
> Ilja Friedel <il...@sue.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>A quarter billion here, a few hundred million there, and if you don't
>>watch it it adds up to real money.
> I know some of the crew working on this and there's a talk from the end
> of Sept. at Stanford on it (with slides and video). It's early enough
> that I still give them the benefit of the doubt. The geeky nerds not
> grounded in reality is a common complaint. I think it's too early and I
> know some of the peripheral players (and they have made serious attempts
> to bring the Internet to places like Laos).
Looking at the specs there are better commercial products out there. And
their price is falling at the pace of Moore's law. I want to give them the
benefit of doubt, but still feel uneasy.
>>>>What a scam MIT has become.
>>> I think, somewhat too early to say on the laptop.
>>
>>We will see. I am afraid the poor countries are wasting their money.
> Well I think they are merely test sites and not necessarily paying for
> the early models. Its covered in the video.
I looked at the video. Good speaker, but old presentation. He does not
claim that anything is for free. If it is going to be rolled out, it is
rolled out with at least 7-10 million units. At USD 135-200 per piece it
is not going to be a donation. No room for mistakes.
Ilja.
axolotl
Eugene Miya wrote:
> Well, some of my Alaskan trips require require some degree of
> certification with fire arms and that requires annual testing.
> Now the Univ. of Alaska, Fairbanks has an annual 1 day class, but local
> to me the USGS covers this OK (with 1-3 days depending on currency),
> and it's free.
We went through the same rigamarole when in the Forest Service (on
company time), Kenai and Prince William Sound areas. One guy flunked,
and couldn't legally carry the H&H Magnum short stock in the field.
After a few weeks, we thought he was pretty smart! Also carried
sidearms, our choice, usually 44s or 45s.
Saw lotsa bears, but didn't have to shoot any. Did have an encounter
with a big brownie, but he stopped his charge 20 yards away, then
ambled off. Pretty scarey, he was on the other side of a river we
thought couldn't be forded. He smelled us from over a hundred yards
away.