Who was the woman in Into Thin Air?
Nospam1933
I have a question of total irrelevance. Maybe someone can help. This is a
question for those who know something about Scott Fischer's ill-fated 1996
Everest expedition. In Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air, p. 127, he tells of
the Sherpas' superstition in blaming bad weather on Everest on the illicit
"sause-making" between a female member on Fischer's team and another member of
an expedition attempting Lhotse. At the bottom of page 127 he goes on to say,
"Sandy Pittman had noted this superstition in her diary..." Now the quesiton
is who was this female? It looks like Krakauer was not referring to Sandy
Pittman, although at times he was trying to villify her and the mention of
Pittman on the same page might have been a deliberate attempt to confuse the
readers. There were five female members: Sandy Hill Pittman(who was
married), Dr. Ingrid Hunt, Charlotte Fox, Lene Gammelgaard, and Jane Bromet.
Who was this female that defiled the peaks of Sagarmatha or Chomalungma?
I asked this same question on Backpacker's Basecamp website and some said that
this mystery woman was Sandy Pittman whose boyfriend came to camp II, but Sandy
Pittman was(still is?) married to Bob Pittman at the time. I also saw the TV
movie but don't remember the identity of this woman was revealed even
obliquely. Any ideas?
gos...@curious.net
I was reading the book last night and wondered who the woman was as
well. If I remember correctly, Krakauer mentioned that the woman was a
"climber" so it couldn't have been any of the women that were at
basecamp. That narrows it down.
Woody Schlom
At the time I read the book it seemed very clear to me that it was Charlotte
Fox and Tim Madsen who were the item, but now I guess I'll have to re-read
that part. Those two were very close and stuck together even at the end when
they nearly froze when they couldn't find Camp-IV. As I remember Tim could
have made it, but wouldn't leave Charlotte. Anatoli finally came and got
them and led them back to the tents.
Although Anatoli's book doesn't mention their "disgracing the mountain", he
also mentions that this couple was pretty close.
Woody Schlom
gos...@curious.net
It is stated in the book that Fox and Madsen were boyfriend/girlfriend
and I assume they came to this expedition already in this relationship.
According to the book the couple in question was made up of a climber
from the Fischer team and one from a team attempting a Lhoste attempt.
Both Fox and Madsen were on on the Fischer team so one would assume it
wasn't them.
Woody Schlom
The best kind.
>Maybe someone can help. This is a
>question for those who know something about Scott Fischer's ill-fated 1996
>Everest expedition. In Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air, p. 127, he tells of
>the Sherpas' superstition in blaming bad weather on Everest on the illicit
>"sause-making" between a female member on Fischer's team and another member of
>an expedition attempting Lhotse. At the bottom of page 127 he goes on to say,
>"Sandy Pittman had noted this superstition in her diary..." Now the quesiton
>is who was this female? It looks like Krakauer was not referring to Sandy
>Pittman, although at times he was trying to villify her and the mention of
>Pittman on the same page might have been a deliberate attempt to confuse the
>readers.
I didn't interpret it that way. I just thought he mentioned Sandy at the
bottom of the page as another example of somebody else being aware of this
"tabu". But if you think Jon was hard on Sandy, you ought to read Anatoli
Boukreev's book "THE CLIMB". It's mostly about the same climb, but from
Anatoli's viewpoint as "Head Everest Expedition Guide" for the Fisher "team".
After reading Anatoli's detailed descriptions of Sandy, you come away
thinking that either Jon was being soft on her, or Anatoli was in a much
better position to "know" her because he was on her team. After reading both
accounts I'd say she's a solid gold BITCH -- or what we used to call an Ugly
American!
When I read the book I somehow got the idea that Jon was referring to
Charlotte Fox and Tim Madsen, but I just went back and re-read page 127 and
now I'm just as unclear as you are. I'd now GUESS that it might have been
Lene, but that's just an irresponsible guess.
Woody Schlom
Nospam1933
Woody Schlom wrote:
>After reading Anatoli's detailed descriptions of Sandy, you come away thinking
that either Jon was being soft on her, or Anatoli was in a much better position
to "know" her because he was on her team. After reading both accounts I'd say
she's a solid gold BITCH -- or what we used to call an Ugly American!<
I agree. I didn't intend to make it sound like Jon was unfairly criticizing
her. Sandy Pittman deserved all the bad press she got.
As I said I posted the same question on Backpacker's Basecamp and someone said
he saw the TV movie version of Into Thin Air on ABC and said the movie
portrayed the illicit couple as Sandy and her boyfriend who came to Camp II.
The problem was I saw the movie too but don't remember a thing about seeing the
true identities of the couple being revealed. The incident was shown, but the
identities of the couple was not. Still the mystery continues.
Bob Broeking
The movie version has a man going into Sandy's tent. The guy had
hiked up to base camp. The one sherpa was bummed... Thats Hollywood!
Bob
nospa...@aol.com (Nospam1933) wrote:
Bob Broeking in O'Fallon, IL... http://www.apci.net/~bbroekin
"I'll get the rope..."Anderl Hinterstoisser, North Face of the
Eiger, July 19th, 1936... bbro...@apci.net
Nospam1933
gmore wrote:
>I understood it to be Pittman. It wasn't??
How did you arrive at this conclusion? When I first casually skimmed p. 127 of
Into Thin Air, I thought it was Pittman, but after carefully reading it again,
I concluded that Sandy Pittman was just mentioned in passing to support
Krakauer's statement that the Sherpas blamed bad weather on illicit sex on
Everest and that he wasn't pointing the finger at her.
PHOTOWRM
Hey Sandy where's your book???
Thomas David Kehoe
Nospam1933 <nospa...@aol.com> wrote:
>Everest expedition. In Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air, p. 127, he tells of
>the Sherpas' superstition in blaming bad weather on Everest on the illicit
>"sause-making" between a female member on Fischer's team and another member of
>an expedition attempting Lhotse. At the bottom of page 127 he goes on to say,
>"Sandy Pittman had noted this superstition in her diary..." Now the quesiton
>is who was this female? It looks like Krakauer was not referring to Sandy
Sandy Pittman. I picked up a women's magazine from a newstand shortly
after Krakauer's article came out in Outside, I think the magazine
was "Details" but I could be wrong. They had a long article on Pittman.
The article went into detail about her affair with a handsome young
climber she'd met at the base camp. I don't think the article
gave his name, but my recollection (which could be faulty) was that
he wasn't there to climb Everest, but was in a small group that
was climbing some of the other mountains in the area. The article
described him as about 23 and a blonde California surfer. Of course,
don't believe everything you read in magazines, and don't believe
everything I remember reading in a magazine 2 years ago! :-)
--
Ask me for the STUTTERING FAQ.
Stuttering Science & Therapy Website: http://www.casafuturatech.com
Thomas David Kehoe ke...@netcom.com Casa Futura Technologies
maohai huang
sick. you are making statement about someone's private life when she
is not here to defend herself. what is the fuss? Does anyone here
really believe that someone slept with someone at high camp has
anything to do with the storm?
Pittman sure was an easy target. Krakauer's story about her is far
from fair according David Breashears, who personally knows Sandy
Pittman very well and has high praise for her.
- mh
Al Bowers
mhu...@bu.edu (maohai huang) writes:
> Pittman sure was an easy target. Krakauer's story about her is far
> from fair according David Breashears, who personally knows Sandy
> Pittman very well and has high praise for her.
I think Krakauer is unecessarily hard on everyone (including himself,
IMHO), and some more than others. I do note that the only ones
Krakauer feels much compassion for are those who show some culpability
for events beyond their control.
Al Bowers
Nospam1933
Al Bowers wrote:
>I think Krakauer is unecessarily hard on everyone (including himself, IMHO),
I didn't quite read it that way. After reading The Climb along with Into Thin
Air, I felt that what you call by Krakauer being hard on himself was nothing
less than an attempt to make himself come across as likable and credible.
There is a fine difference between admitting guilt as Krakauer has done and
actually offering evidence that depicts oneself in an ignominious way. The
guilt or fault that Krakauer has admitted to were meant to evoke sympathy and
understanding of his actions. They were written in such a way as not to evoke
anger among the readers. Contrast that with his depiction of Pittman,
Boukreev, Lopsang, etc. There is a world of difference.
Krakauer painted himself in Into Thin Air as extremely eager to volunteer to
help Beck Weathers down the mountain, but it turns out by Beck Weathers'
account in The Climb that Krakauer expressed reservations about helping Beck
down. Beck said that Krakauer reminded him that ALTHOUGH he was willing to
help him down, he really was not a guide. This reluctance was missing in
Krakauer's own portrayal of himself.
I am not saying Krakauer was a bastard. He just sounded a bit self-righteous
at times and it was quite annoying.
Woody Schlom
mhu...@bu.edu (maohai huang) wrote:
>Does anyone here
>really believe that someone slept with someone at high camp has
>anything to do with the storm?
Not really, but "we" don't know or understand everything that makes this
world go around.
>Pittman sure was an easy target. Krakauer's story about her is far
>from fair according David Breashears, who personally knows Sandy
>Pittman very well and has high praise for her.
Have you read Anatoli's book THE CLIMB? He's MUCH harder on Sandy, and she
was on his "team".
Woody Schlom
david mann
maohai huang (mhu...@bu.edu) wrote:
: sick. you are making statement about someone's private life when she
: is not here to defend herself.
mauhai,
This is usenet. What do you expect?
: Pittman sure was an easy target.
We all are.
From Unforgiven:
"Well, he had it comin'."
"We all have it comin', kid."
Dave Mann | "It is impossible, or not easy, to do
| noble acts without the proper equipment."
dam...@lynx.neu.edu | Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
maohai huang
Woody Schlom (wo...@westworld.com) wrote:
: mhu...@bu.edu (maohai huang) wrote:
: >Does anyone here
: >really believe that someone slept with someone at high camp has
: >anything to do with the storm?
: Not really, but "we" don't know or understand everything that makes this
: world go around.
OK. that I cannot deny. But finding out who that woman is from this
group will help?
hmmm, maybe I can write a proposal to get some funding to do some
experiment on that :-)
: >Pittman sure was an easy target. Krakauer's story about her is far
: >from fair according David Breashears, who personally knows Sandy
: >Pittman very well and has high praise for her.
: Have you read Anatoli's book THE CLIMB? He's MUCH harder on Sandy, and she
: was on his "team".
Anatoli Boukreev's book is good to gauge whether Krakauer's account on
AB himself and whether JK's judgement on the technical part of the
climb was good ( and I tend to agree with nospam's conclusion ). But
there has been virtually no words from Pittman. I did read her own
words about just wanting to "crawl into a hole and die". In any case
I am not going to sit in my chair at 100 feet above sea level and
judge what normal behaviour is for someone climbing above 20K. However
it is interesting to know the bevaiour of a bunch of consumers who
have enough money to acquire an Everest experience, and the
businessmen who cater the demand, all in a harsh environment. It's not
new. just a new twist. the biggest winner is perhaps JK, who knows how to
have his cake and eat it, too. :-/
- mh
King Pineapple
Just curious, who holds the record for the highest-altitude sexual
performance?
maohai huang <mhu...@bu.edu> wrote in article
<6h820b$db3$1...@news1.bu.edu>...
Jeannie Williams
I hope this isn't the latest "scientific" explaination for El Nino
effects...
I thought the way to appease those storm gods was the prayer flags?
Alan Silverstein
> Just curious, who holds the record for the highest-altitude sexual
> performance?
I bet it's some or other pair of astronauts, though they might not care
to admit it in public. :-)
I will discreetly add that, based on my own experiences, sex at altitude
(on a mountaintop, anyway; say hypothetically, Mount Elbert, 14433',
Colorado :-) is generally more wonderful to brag about afterward, than
to experience at the time.
Gregory William Munson
a...@fc.hp.com (Alan Silverstein) wrote:
>I bet it's some or other pair of astronauts, though they might not care
>to admit it in public. :-)
Ahh, not enough Straight Dope reading recently? Lord Cecil covered this
topic in several columns, including (acc. to http://www.straightdope.com/
topics/oldcolumns.html) 28 Feb 97 and 11 Apr 97. Unfortunately, only his
final word on the subject on 30 May 97 is on the WWW (though they're all
on AOL - but 'nuff said). See http://www.straightdope.com/columns/
970530.html. In brief, Cecil says no proof exists that a "pair" has
had sex, though the possibility of "mastering one's domain" remains.
Greg
gwmm...@midway.uchicago.edu
maohai huang
Alan Silverstein (a...@fc.hp.com) wrote:
: I will discreetly add that, based on my own experiences, sex at altitude
: (on a mountaintop, anyway; say hypothetically, Mount Elbert, 14433',
: Colorado :-) is generally more wonderful to brag about afterward, than
: to experience at the time.
but, were you hit by a storm when you descend ?
- mh
Eugene Miya
You guys have better things to do with your lives......
imsby...@gmail.com
obliquely. Any ideas?"
Sandy and her husband were separated: her husband was divorcing her to marry David Brashears so-to-be ex-wife. (So you can see why it would be easy for David to support Sandy.)
On this expedition, Sandy had a much-younger friend from a Lobuche climb, visit her in her tent. Charlotte Fox and Tim Madsen were "together" at the time.
Since Lobsang wanted Scott to speak to a "she" on HIS team: the most likely is Hill-Pittman, rather than the "couple" of Fox/Madsen.
Just my 2 cents.
naj
> I have a question of total irrelevance. Maybe someone can help. This is a
> the Sherpas' superstition in blaming bad weather on Everest on the illicit
> "sause-making" between a female member on Fischer's team and another member of
> an expedition attempting Lhotse. At the bottom of page 127 he goes on to say,
> "Sandy Pittman had noted this superstition in her diary..." Now the quesiton
> is who was this female? It looks like Krakauer was not referring to Sandy
> Pittman on the same page might have been a deliberate attempt to confuse the
> married), Dr. Ingrid Hunt, Charlotte Fox, Lene Gammelgaard, and Jane Bromet.
> Who was this female that defiled the peaks of Sagarmatha or Chomalungma?
>
> I asked this same question on Backpacker's Basecamp website and some said that
> movie but don't remember the identity of this woman was revealed even
> obliquely. Any ideas?
sgt23
> I have a question of total irrelevance. Maybe someone can help. This is a
> question for those who know something about Scott Fischer's ill-fated 1996
> Everest expedition. In Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air, p. 127, he tells of
> the Sherpas' superstition in blaming bad weather on Everest on the illicit
> "sause-making" between a female member on Fischer's team and another member of
> an expedition attempting Lhotse. At the bottom of page 127 he goes on to say,
> "Sandy Pittman had noted this superstition in her diary..." Now the quesiton
> is who was this female? It looks like Krakauer was not referring to Sandy
> Pittman, although at times he was trying to villify her and the mention of
> Pittman on the same page might have been a deliberate attempt to confuse the
> readers. There were five female members: Sandy Hill Pittman(who was
> married), Dr. Ingrid Hunt, Charlotte Fox, Lene Gammelgaard, and Jane Bromet.
> Who was this female that defiled the peaks of Sagarmatha or Chomalungma?
>
> I asked this same question on Backpacker's Basecamp website and some said that
> this mystery woman was Sandy Pittman whose boyfriend came to camp II, but Sandy
> Pittman was(still is?) married to Bob Pittman at the time. I also saw the TV
> movie but don't remember the identity of this woman was revealed even
> obliquely. Any ideas?
Chick Tower
> On Tuesday, April 14, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Nospam1933 wrote:
>
> interesting.
I've been waiting over seventeen years to find out what your thoughts
are on this, and all you've got to say is "Interesting"?!?
--
Chick Tower
For e-mail: rbc DOT sent DOT towerboy AT xoxy DOT net
andreaj...@gmail.com
j...@worldline.ca
Chick Tower
> On Tuesday, April 14, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Nospam1933 wrote:....
> it was sandy pittman ..she was scrtewing a young skier at base camp
doria...@gmail.com
hughgr...@gmail.com
www.ledal...@gmail.com
> question for those who know something about Scott Fischer's ill-fated 1996
> Everest expedition. In Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air, p. 127, he tells of
> the Sherpas' superstition in blaming bad weather on Everest on the illicit
> "sause-making" between a female member on Fischer's team and another member of
> an expedition attempting Lhotse. At the bottom of page 127 he goes on to say,
> "Sandy Pittman had noted this superstition in her diary..." Now the quesiton
> is who was this female? It looks like Krakauer was not referring to Sandy
> Pittman, although at times he was trying to villify her and the mention of
> Pittman on the same page might have been a deliberate attempt to confuse the
> readers. There were five female members: Sandy Hill Pittman(who was
> married), Dr. Ingrid Hunt, Charlotte Fox, Lene Gammelgaard, and Jane Bromet.
> Who was this female that defiled the peaks of Sagarmatha or Chomalungma?
>
> I asked this same question on Backpacker's Basecamp website and some said that
> this mystery woman was Sandy Pittman whose boyfriend came to camp II, but Sandy
> Pittman was(still is?) married to Bob Pittman at the time. I also saw the TV
> movie but don't remember the identity of this woman was revealed even
> obliquely. Any ideas?
also mentions that this couple was pretty close.
http://www.sanlibang.com
djh...@gmail.com
> I have a question of total irrelevance. Maybe someone can help. This is a
> question for those who know something about Scott Fischer's ill-fated 1996
> Everest expedition. In Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air, p. 127, he tells of
> the Sherpas' superstition in blaming bad weather on Everest on the illicit
> "sause-making" between a female member on Fischer's team and another member of
> an expedition attempting Lhotse. At the bottom of page 127 he goes on to say,
> "Sandy Pittman had noted this superstition in her diary..." Now the quesiton
> is who was this female? It looks like Krakauer was not referring to Sandy
> Pittman, although at times he was trying to villify her and the mention of
> Pittman on the same page might have been a deliberate attempt to confuse the
> readers. There were five female members: Sandy Hill Pittman(who was
> married), Dr. Ingrid Hunt, Charlotte Fox, Lene Gammelgaard, and Jane Bromet.
> Who was this female that defiled the peaks of Sagarmatha or Chomalungma?
>
> I asked this same question on Backpacker's Basecamp website and some said that
> this mystery woman was Sandy Pittman whose boyfriend came to camp II, but Sandy
> Pittman was(still is?) married to Bob Pittman at the time. I also saw the TV
> movie but don't remember the identity of this woman was revealed even
> obliquely. Any ideas?