Merrill boot defects
David Neils
others were experiencing the same thing. This will be my third pair returned
to Merrill. Here is a list of the defects:
1. Merrill claims the gortex boot is waterproof. It isn't! The first time I
walk through wet grass (the ultimate test for a boot) it leaks like crazy.
2. The boot uppers pull away from the sole. It looks like the uppers are just
glued to the sole. I use the BiWell treatment for the uppers (recommended by
the store where I bought the boots)
3. This last pair had some stitching come apart near the ankle. An obvious flaw.
I have not switched to another boot because most of the hiking I do in Colorado
is in dry weather (except the occasional thunderstorm) and the boot fits
perfectly. It is the only boot I have ever worn that actually keeps my toes
from slamming into the toe of the boot. The heel pocket is superb. I don't mind
wet feet once in awhile so I just keep returning the boots for a new pair.
Any comments out there on these boots? I can't remember the model name of the
boot but it is the lightweight gortex boot with grey/green and magenta trim.
Does anyone have a toll free customer service number and/or address for Merrill?
Thanks,
David Neils
Fort Collins, CO
Robyn L Davis
>I have been having problems with some gortex Merrill boots and was curious if
>others were experiencing the same thing. This will be my third pair returned
>
> glued to the sole. I use the BiWell treatment for the uppers (recommended by
> the store where I bought the boots)
>
>3. This last pair had some stitching come apart near the ankle. An obvious flaw.
2 and 3 with my Timberland 6" Gore/Tex Hikers. Guess what...my cousin and
uncle had the same problem. I am on my third pair of them, which have held up
better than the last two by a long shot. They did finally improve how the
upper was attached to the sole. Thank goodness that Timberland takes care of
it's customers, as we had no problems whatsoever returning them...
Robyn Davis
rld...@pitt.edu
Ivan Pulleyn
I have had some problems with my merrils as well. The first pair that I had
WAS completely waterproof. In fact, I was amazed at how well they worked.
I wore them daily for about a year, until the sides tore out on the side
near the ball of my foot. I was told by a person in Eastern Mountain Sports
that a good way to avoid this is to once in a while remove the insert, and
rinse them with water, and let them dry by resting them upside down. This
will clear out the pockets of water, and especially salt from your sweat
that gets caught inside. This supposedly will reduce the rate at which they
wear. My second pair, however, does not seem to be waterproof at all. I
think it is just luck as to whether or not you get a good pair. Another
problem with these boots is that there is no way to repair them. Any
stiching done to the gortex will ruin it's waterproofness. I am kind of
dissappointed because the merrils are the best fitting, most comfortable
boots that I have ever worn, and I wish that I could get a pair that did
everything that it was supposed to.
Ivan.....
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Ivan Pulleyn - University of Rochester |
| E-mail - ip0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu |
+----------------------------------------+
Alan Malkiel
>I have been having problems with some gortex Merrill boots and was curious if
>others were experiencing the same thing. This will be my third pair returned
>to Merrill. Here is a list of the defects:
>
A friend of mine had the soles detach on both boots. They were one
week (!) old and being used in wet conditions. The boots were
returned to Merrill where the soles were glued back on. They told
my friend they were as good as new.
Needless to say, he was not impressed.
I can find out the specifics if anyone is interested.
---
Alan Malkiel | e-mail exu...@exu.ericsson.se
Ericsson Network Systems | alt. exu.e...@memo.ericsson.se
MS - C06 | memo - EXU.EXUALAN
PO Box 833875 | phone - (214) 997-6672
Richardson, TX 75083-3875 | "Opinions - worth exactly what you paid"
Robert Jr.
>I have been having problems with some gortex Merrill boots and was curious if
>others were experiencing the same thing. This will be my third pair returned
>to Merrill. Here is a list of the defects:
>
.
.
>Any comments out there on these boots? I can't remember the model name of the
>boot but it is the lightweight gortex boot with grey/green and magenta trim.
I've had one pair of Merril Blazers and no problems at all.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
INTERNET: r...@sam.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------
AT-Dreamer
wear thru the sole before anything else. My girlfriend as the Eagles
and she as no complains either. We are going to buying two pair
of Wilderness for our thru hike of the AT.
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger" Spoken by many A.T. hikers |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
David Neils
so well I wouldn't care and would drop Merrill like a wet sock. Are there
other boots out there that fit as well (no toe jam on steep slopes with heavy
pack)? I have had full leather boots in the past but after wearing lightweight
boots I don't think I could ever go back. Those boots leaked anyway.
I'm still looking for phone numbers and an address for Merrill.
David Neils
Merrill. Here it is in case others want to call:
55 Green Mountain Drive
South Burlington, Vermont 05401
If you want to talk to someone in the warranty department ask for Ed Blair. The
warranty dept hours are 1pm - 6pm M-F eastern time. I will be calling later
today to explain the defects in my boots and will post the response from Ed. If
Merrill takes the same action as in the past I should have a new pair of boots
soon.
The model of boot I have is the WestWind with the full gortex lining. I hope to
get straight answers on:
1. Why do you advertise your boots as waterproof when they leak right out of
the box?
2. Why do the boots separate between the upper and sole?
3. What waterproofing/dressing product do you recommend for the boot? Do you
stand behind the Biwell treatment?
I'll keep you posted.
Kathy Chormicle
Merrel Footwear
P.O. Box 4249
S. Burlingtom, VT 05406
Ph. 800 222-1833 Fax 802 864-6774
I have found the "One Sport, Morraine" to be the finest boot I've ever
worn since I started Back packing in 1966.
David Neils
explaining what they have done in more recent models to correct some of the
defects. Some of the more interesting tidbits were:
1. Merrill defect rate for all boots is about 2%. He said out of 21,000 boots
sold last year there were about 400 returned.
2. The "boot upper coming apart from the sole - glue failure" problem has been
addressed by a new design he described as a "poored foot frame" which is a
one peice attachment to the sole instead of multiple peices.
3. The new WestWind model number is 1213 (men) and 1214 for women.
4. I asked him about the Biwell treatment and he said that there is a better
product called Tectron (spray treatment).
5. When I asked whether Merrill would replace the boot he suggested the store
where I bought the boots give me a call and he would arrange a credit for
the store.
6. I asked Ed about Merrill advertising that the gortex boots were waterproof
when in fact they weren't. He replied that all manufacturers are faced with
the same problem of providing a waterproof gortex sock inside their boots.
It still bothers me that they know their advertisement is a blatent lie.
Some of you may think that I'm crazy for sticking with Merrill. I doubt my
reasoning until I realize that these boots fit perfectly. If they continue to
send me a new pair every year I will continue to wear them. Hopefully this
cycle will be broken by improvements in the boot.
That's all,
Bob Lewis
My first and only pair of hiking boots are from Vasque and they are very
comfortable. I remember trying on some Merrills and noting how little
ankle support they had, something I really need. The Vasques were the
best buy for me as far as support and comfort.
Bob
Saumyen Guha
>In article <417...@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM>, dav...@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (David Neils) writes:
>|> boots I don't think I could ever go back. Those boots leaked anyway.
>|>
>
>My first and only pair of hiking boots are from Vasque and they are very
>comfortable. I remember trying on some Merrills and noting how little
>ankle support they had, something I really need. The Vasques were the
>best buy for me as far as support and comfort.
>
excellant. They are something between light and medium weight :-).
Lighter than Merril Wilderness but heavier than any light weight boot.
Good ankle support. Leather top with a Gore Tex liner. Though it
leaks with prolonged exposure to water.
later,
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Saumyen Guha
sg...@phoenix.princeton.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Brian K. Sward
le...@gazoo.kpc.com (Bob Lewis) writes:
I've basically decided that I will never buy an expensive boot that
isn't stitched to the sole. During my first extended backpacking trip,
(as a scout at Philmont Scout Ranch in NM) I ran into somone with a
pair of Vasque Sundowners with the entire heel flopping on both boots.
The boots I've been wearing since 1989 have been Fabiano Trionic 106's.
They're a lightweight all-leather boot. They were waterproof until
last winter despite constant wearing, and since I soaked the offending
area with silicone (the bend just behind the toes) I haven't had a
problem.
Unfortunately, wearing them throughout the winter and the NH muddy
season without always tieing them tightly has basically killed the
inside of the heel. The end of the summer, I bought a pair of Merrill
Wildernesses to replace them for hiking. (Because I worked in a store
that sold Merrill they were cheaper than the $150 Campmor wanted for a
new pair of Fabiano's)
I'd say that comfort is about the same between the two boots. On the
issue of leaky Merrills, I was standing in 5-6 inches of water for an
hour. The water was about 34 degrees, so I would have noticed any
leakage, but the Merrills held tight.
In ten years of hiking and three years of working in the clothing and
shoe departments of an outdoor store, most of what I've seen says that
all leather, treated with silicone is a much much more reliable
waterproofing than goretex for boots.
Or just wear a plastic bag over your socks :-)
Brian
Don Wegeng
>other boots out there that fit as well (no toe jam on steep slopes with heavy
>pack)?
Perhaps I'm missing something, but doesn't this depend on the shape of your
foot? I know that I have never been able to find a pair of Vasque boots that
fit well, while they seem to fit a friend's feet just fine. My understanding
is that many boot manufacturers do not make different width for a given
length.
I've also found that buying boots from a store that specializes in shoes
(rather than outdoor type clothes :-( ) really helps. Here in Rochester, NY,
there's a shoe store that also sells good quality boots, and the salespeople
actually know something about how to fit boots to your feet (this store also
does custom shoe work for people with disabilities), since it's their
full time job. If you can find a similar store in your area you'll probably
be pleased with the outcome.
Frank Sandy
poor traction on wet rock. Other hikers I have talked to, who had
Merrill's, reported the same problem.
I find the boots extremely comfortable and would hope Merrill would
fix the problem before I buy my next pair of boots.
--
Frank Sandy, Raytheon Research Div., 131 Spring Street, Lexington, MA 02173
fr...@tomcat.rd.ray.com phone: (617) 860-3049
Jonathan A. Cook
REAL hiking boots, get full leathers and waterproof/SnoSeal
them. It's a bit hotter but it'll really keep the water out.
Personally, I looked at the Merrill Westwind and Blazer before
my trip and found them a little too flimsy and 'sporty' for my
liking. Try Asolo or Raichle.
jon, ja...@virginia.edu
"Let your life be a counter-friction
against the machine..."- H.D.T.
John Witters
>I have had my Merrill Colorados for 18 months now and I'm going to
>wear thru the sole before anything else. My girlfriend as the Eagles
>and she as no complains either. We are going to buying two pair
>of Wilderness for our thru hike of the AT.
I would strongly recommend AGAINST buying a new pair of boots just before
going on an extended outing. It's a good way to turn your feet into
hamburger. You're much better off using a comfortable pair of well broken in
boots.
You may ignore what follows, it's Yet Another Boot Horror Story. In a
nutshell, I haven't been able to find a pair of boots that will last me more
than three years. I bought a pair of Merrill Mountaineers to replace the
JC-Penny boots I'd been using since high school. After about three years the
soles fell off and the lining rotted out. I replaced those with a pair of
Vasque (Wilderness?) boots. After two years, the soles fell off. The lining
was good, so I had them re-soled. A year later, the lace eyelets pulled out.
I replaced these with a pair of Asolo Yukons. After a year, the soles fell
off the Asolos. Since the lining was good, I replaced the soles. A year
after replacing the soles, the linings split. I had them re-lined this year.
It seems the half life of the boots I'm buying is going down. At this rate,
in a few years, I'll have to replace my boots every six months or so.
-John
--
* * * John Witters voice: (206) 356-5274
* \ * John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc.
* \ * P.O.B. 9090 M/S 241F fax: (206) 356-5116
* DRIVING * Everett, Washington 98206-9090 or (206) 356-5174
* \ *
* \ * domain: wit...@tc.fluke.COM
* * * ARPA: fluke!wit...@uw-beaver.ARPA
uucp: {uunet,sun,microsoft,uw-beaver}!fluke!witters
Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Add me to your .signature and join in the fun!
Joanne Spetz
> This pattern of Merrill boot failure is depressing.
I told a friend about this thread. She said on a backpacking trip
last summer, every person in the group with Merrill boots had some
kind of failure. She said she thought the problems were related to
only one year of manufacture.
Joanne
--
Joanne Spetz Department of Economics
jo...@leland.stanford.edu Stanford University
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours." -R.Bach
perr...@staff.tc.umn.edu
>I told a friend about this thread. She said on a backpacking trip
>last summer, every person in the group with Merrill boots had some
>kind of failure. She said she thought the problems were related to
>only one year of manufacture.
I purchased a pair of Merrill Leathers shortly before an extended
backpacking trip in New Zealand. I treated my boots with biwell before
going and never once had wet feet nor any failures.
On one occasion we had to hike across a swampy meadow; I was wearing
gators and was tramping through water well up to my knees with no
problems.
I'd get Merrill's again without even thinking twice.
-Hobie
--
=======================================================
C. Hobart Perry perr...@staff.tc.umn.edu
-------------------------------------------------------
Dept. of Forest Resources, Univ. of Minnesota, St. Paul
Gopal Narayanan
with these expensive Merrill boots. I use $30.00 hiking boots you can get
in Army Surplus stores. These are called Gorillas. They are very sturdy,
last a long while, have about the best traction among all soles I've seen.
They are not entirely waterproof, but with sealants, I'm okay. Allright,
it's a trifle heavy, but then, hey, I'm a poor grad student who can't
afford those higher-end boots. Actually, even if I can afford them, I
think I'd prefer my Gorillas. Sometimes, I think that these big companies
tend to be oriented towards very yuppy markets- the accent being on
looks than on functionality. Sorry if I trod on some toes there :-)
Does anyone else in netland use Gorilla boots?
Gopal
--
________________________________________________________________________
Gopal Narayanan go...@astro.as.arizona.edu Ph (602) 621 6523
Steward Observatory. University of Arizona. Tucson.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Richardson
> This pattern of Merrill boot failure is depressing. If the boot didn't fit
> |> so well I wouldn't care and would drop Merrill like a wet sock. Are there
issue of leaky Merrills, I was standing in 5-6 inches of water for an
hour. The water was about 34 degrees, so I would have noticed any
leakage, but the Merrills held tight.
Just to add to this. I just got a pair of Merrill Wilderness boots
last year. Add Bee's Wax and they don't leak at all, even though muddy
trails. I was seriously considering buying a pair of the GoreTex boots
for day/overnight hikes... It looks like a tradeoff, heaver boots don't
leak (the Wilderness weighs in at about one pound more than the GoreTex)
and are less likely to come apart, while lighter ones might be useful
for trips where you can walk out with a flapping heel...
John Richardson | "the more we live, the more we learn,
jric...@cs.ulowell.edu | the more we know... for each of us the road
jric...@dragon.ulowell.edu | is clear, and life has just begun" -- Yes
Jonathan Graham
>In article <1993Feb18....@seq.uncwil.edu> br...@seq.uncwil.edu (AT-Dreamer) writes:
>>I have had my Merrill Colorados for 18 months now and I'm going to
>>wear thru the sole before anything else. My girlfriend as the Eagles
>>and she as no complains either. We are going to buying two pair
>>of Wilderness for our thru hike of the AT.
>
>I would strongly recommend AGAINST buying a new pair of boots just before
>going on an extended outing. It's a good way to turn your feet into
>hamburger. You're much better off using a comfortable pair of well broken in
>boots.
>
Interestingly enough a couple of summers ago I bought a pair
of Merrills (cant remember the name, blue/lt blue trim) a day
before a 4-day hike into the Mission Mountains here in Montana.
They were incredible. I didn't get single blister and wasnt
bothered by them being new at all.
*** Start of boot problems...
The above was pretty much the only
highlight of my Merrills though. I have returned 5 pair and
am currently on my 6th. The first 2 I originally thought the
air cushion was popping for every time I stepped an annoying
_crack_pop_ noise would come. This turned out to be the hard
plastic in the heel support that was cracking. My 3rd pair
the sole fell of 2 weeks after I bought it, and the next
two had problems similiar to the first two in addition to the
trim around the heel coming unstiched. My current pair has
a variety of the above problems, I just got tired of taking
them back..... arg.
-Jon
Jonathan Graham Computer Science
------------------------------------------------------------------------
gra...@cs.montana.edu -> Montana State University
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am so hip I can't see over my pelvis" -- Zaphod Beeblebrox
David Neils
There is a lot of great boot information in this string. How would you feel
if I edited this entire string (removing all last names for confidentiality),
and sent it to Merrill? I think they could use some raw data in this format.
I will find out today whether Merrill will just refund my money or replace the
boot. I will post the final results. I have learned a tremendous amount about
boot failure and success.
If you feel uncomfortable about having your comments sent to Merrill let me
know by the end of the week.
Steve Phillips
seam-sealed them, wear gaiters, and been very satisfied with their
wet weather capability. Just yesterday I walked out of the Toccoa (sp?)
River Valley in a heavy rain and my feet stayed dry. Reasonable price,
good fit, will accomodate Thor-Lo Trekkers down to city socks comfortably.
Fuzzy
> Changing this to Hi-Tecs, I've owned a pair of Hi-Tec Mauna Kea's,
and following up on the Hi-tec theme, i haven't had such good luck...i
had a pair of Mt. Diablo's...a light weight boot...day trips and such...
i used these for running around town and going to class, and they did
reasonably well, except for that little piece of plastic between the
upper and the sole...supposedly this was supposed to add stability, but
i can't imagine it working too well when it comes unglued, like mine
did...i didn't worry about it tho, and wore 'em on a 3 day pack trip...
they survived that trip, but not too much longer...sent 'em back for a
refund and bought myself some spiffy vasque sundowners...damn nice boots,
IMHO...i still haven't found any shoe that compares to a pair of oh-so-
perfectly broken-in leather boots...can't beat the real thing...
Fuzzy
--
Fare thee well now, let your life proceed by it's own design.
Nothing to tell now, let the words be yours, I am done with mine.
fu...@sage.cc.purdue.edu
Eugene N. Miya
a little shoddy (one pin to a lace hook broke, but the other didn't).
That pair of shoes (they aren't really boots) lasted several hundred miles
of walking, approaches, and even a few short technical climbs.
Last summer I had to replace them. Coleman's proved a bit shoddy
(fabric), so I chanced a set of Merrills. The leather wore away after
six miles of the approach into the Minarets. I had no choice but to do my
climbs (mid-fifth class) in them. I took them back to REI where the manager
gave me a second set. The second set has not held up well either.
You get what you pay for?
At least REI will give me another set of something else (or credit it to).
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@orville.nas.nasa.gov
Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
{uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Charles Adam Rummel
>In article <1993Feb18....@kpc.com>
>le...@gazoo.kpc.com (Bob Lewis) writes:
(stuff deleted)
>I've basically decided that I will never buy an expensive boot that
>isn't stitched to the sole. During my first extended backpacking trip,
>(as a scout at Philmont Scout Ranch in NM) I ran into somone with a
>pair of Vasque Sundowners with the entire heel flopping on both boots.
(more stuff deleted)
>Or just wear a plastic bag over your socks :-)
>Brian
That person that you saw at Philmont with the soles flopping off wouldn't
happen to have been a Ranger, would it? Admittedly, a good pair of boots should
last for a couple hundred miles (miles may vary, void where prohibited, etc.)
but from my experience as a Ranger myself, I wouldn't be suprised if over a
hundred or even two hundred miles (guess) were put on in the duration of a
summer. Not to mention that once people like a pair of boots, they tend to keep
them as long as they can, which means you will find boots out there that are
several years old and would have enough miles on them to go farther than one carcan go in a day. (alright, bad comparison) My point is that the pair of Vasque'sthat I got for last summer are still in just about perfect condition, given the abuse I've put them through. Happy Hiking.
Chuck Rummel
car5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(the odometer on my soes reads ~150 mi. ;) )
Brad Whitehurst
>Brian....@dartmouth.edu (Brian K. Sward) writes:
>
>>In article <1993Feb18....@kpc.com>
>>le...@gazoo.kpc.com (Bob Lewis) writes:
>
>(stuff deleted)
>
>>I've basically decided that I will never buy an expensive boot that
>>isn't stitched to the sole. During my first extended backpacking trip,
>>(as a scout at Philmont Scout Ranch in NM) I ran into somone with a
>>pair of Vasque Sundowners with the entire heel flopping on both boots.
>(more stuff deleted)
>>Or just wear a plastic bag over your socks :-)
[boot horror story follows. hit 'n' to avoid]
Tooo many years ago, on my pilgrimage as a Scout to Philmont,
one of the other boys in our group had a cheap pair of glued boots.
They looked OK, but the 2nd of 8 days out, the fronts of both soles
peeled completely (i.e., toes hanging out). Some kids had given this
boy grief, because he was rather bookish, like me, and quiet (unlike
me). Without complaining to anyone, he lashed them onto his feet with
twine and duct tape and just kept going. Upon return (after an
admittedly long last day over the Tooth), the expedition leader, a
doctor, noticed the boy's painfully slow movements. He had a single,
massive blister across the entirety of the ball of each foot. A
little care, and he was OK in a couple of days, but he didn't get
razzed on the trip home! Nowadays, they'd probably airlift the kid
out, scared of a suit!
--
Brad Whitehurst | Aerospace Research Lab
rb...@Virginia.EDU | We like it hot...and fast.
Ralph C. Lindenfeld
very slowly (and painfully)- indeed, I fractured my fibula on my first
hike in them. (I believe the fracture was merely exacerbated by them,
and I sustained the injury several weeks earlier on a downclimb).
anyway...
I've now put over 200 miles on them and I'm very satisfied. They're
comfortable, have good support. However, I condition them after every
weekend out with Biwell and a hairdryer (on low).
They developed a slight leak in one of the toes- this shows up when
I've gone through a lot of water for several hours and I haven't
greased them properly. Also, they've stood up to several puncture
attempts by crampons. They've done well through the winter (I can't
afford double boots this year) and I expect to resole them and get the
crampon cuts repaired before Mud Season (tm).
I guess it's like anything else- you get what you pay for. If you buy
a glued sole, it'll come apart. If you buy a boot w/ lots of stitches,
expect them to come out. If you spend $220 on a pair of well made boots
and take care of them, they'll last. -And let me tell you: I thrash
these boots.
Just my data point YMMV.
Ralph Lindenfeld
1960 VW Panelvan: *doink* "I coulda had a V-8"
(but I prefer a flat four)
Michael Brodesky
>climbs (mid-fifth class) in them. I took them back to REI where the manager
>gave me a second set. The second set has not held up well either.
Great Now I know who the previous owner of my used boots is.
michaeL
Michael Brodesky Internet Mbro...@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!td2cad!brodesky
During the week I climb left to right. On weekends I climb up and down.
Rootbeer^2 = Beer ? Were all in it together.
Rob Davis
I have also been very satisfied with Hi-Tec boots. My first pair, the
Sierra Light model, have held up for 5 years of lightweight backpacking.
I bought my girlfriend a pair a year ago and they still look new. We
usually only take weekend backpacking/rockclimbing trips to Kentucky,
no heavy trekking. Rob Davis, Cincinnati OH.
