Multi-fuel stoves: Primus vs. MSR vs. Optimus Nova
JT (edit address to reply)
propane/butane screw-on gas cartridges in Kenya, so....
WHICH MULTI-FUEL STOVE WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?
What I've distilled from the web so far (and would appreciate your comments
on):
MSR (Whisperlite/Dragonfly/XGK):
- everyone has them
- work well, reliable
- *plastic pump can break or melt* <--this is putting me off a lot!
PRIMUS:
- MultiFuel/OmniFuel are good
- aluminium pump doesn't break (but is heavy)
- haven't heard of any disadvantages
OPTIMUS NOVA:
- recommended by quite a few people
- allegedly dodgy fuel connection can end up spraying fuel
on you when disconnecting the line <-- putting me off a lot! is it true?
I'd REALLY appreciate ANY comments on ANY of these stoves (or any rival
stoves I haven't heard of).
Thank you so much for your time!
--
-Jonathan Thurlow
http://www.blankbluesky.com
ne...@DELETETHISjay-tANDTHIS.net
Bob Gross
passion over stoves.
I am what you would call an MSR-diehard. I've been using the MSR- G, GK,
XGK, or XGK-II since about 1979. Most of them have gotten crunched up in
falls and accidents like that, but that is just customer-abuse and not a
fault of the stove. In about eight stoves now, I have never had any plastic
pump break or melt, so I don't know who reports that. Over the years, I have
used them overseas with suspicious fuel, but they are mostly used with
domestic white gas (Coleman fuel). When I am going on some big expedition, I
go out and buy a new one and then DON'T test it at home. I leave the factory
seal on the burner and transport it to whatever country I'm climbing in.
That minimizes hassles at airports. For a serious trip at high altitude, I
would not consider any other stove.
Faults: You still need to filter your fuel before it goes into the fuel
bottle. Fuel contamination can end up creating a problem underneath the
burner. I had a pressurization problem one time, and I re-lubricated the
leather pump gasket with Chapstick, and that made it work. I have never had
a complete stove failure in the field, but they can be frustrating if you
over-pressurize or under-pressurize.
---Bob Gross---
"JT (edit address to reply)" <ne...@DELETETHISjay-tANDTHIS.net> wrote in
message news:3cdb...@212.67.96.135...
Martin Thornquist
> I've been persuaded that I'm unlikely to be able to reliably get
> propane/butane screw-on gas cartridges in Kenya, so....
>
> WHICH MULTI-FUEL STOVE WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?
>
> What I've distilled from the web so far (and would appreciate your comments
> on):
>
> MSR (Whisperlite/Dragonfly/XGK):
> - everyone has them
> - work well, reliable
> - *plastic pump can break or melt* <--this is putting me off a lot!
I've got the Dragonfly. I've broken the ears that hold the top plate
of the pump on. It still works, though, you just have to hold the
plate down with your other hand, so it makes it a bit more cumbersome
to pump a burning stove. I don't think melting is a big concern, and
anyway all stoves surely must have rubber seals which I guess would
melt just as easily as the plastic. MSR are serious people, I don't
think their stuff is any more dangerous to use than others.
The new pump design looks good, though I've only seen it on pictures.
The MSR windscreen foil is a stroke of genius, but I think you can buy
that separately.
> PRIMUS:
> - MultiFuel/OmniFuel are good
> - aluminium pump doesn't break (but is heavy)
> - haven't heard of any disadvantages
I think it's biggest advantages are the ability to burn buthane and
its long fuel line. So if you aren't going to burn buthane... Also,
the MFS has been on the market for a few years now, so it should be
pretty well-tested. But I guess the Dragonfly and Nova also has been
out long enough to have most problems rooted out.
> OPTIMUS NOVA:
> - recommended by quite a few people
> - allegedly dodgy fuel connection can end up spraying fuel
> on you when disconnecting the line <-- putting me off a lot! is it true?
Looks nice, but I haven't seen one in action. Optimus has a long
experience of building hardy stoves, the Norwegian military has used
the 111 Hiker for many years. And a stove that holds up to that,
should hold up to most things.
The Dragonfly's short fuel line is IMHO better than the stiff one of
XGK, but I think one a bit longer and more flexible (like Primus and
Optimus Nova has) would be nice. OTOH then it wouldn't act as a
stabilizer for the burner.
Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp
beefeater
Optimus diehard..
I own and use No 111 Hiker and No 11 Explorer. The hiker is not an option
for backpacking; on those trips I have have carried the Explorer for the
last five or so years. It allways works. A buddy of mine has the NOVA. The
pump and connector are exactly the same as on the Explorer. The connector on
the pump has a valve that's supposed to hold back the fuel-flow if the hose
is disconnected while there is pressure in the bottle. This valve can and
does sometimes fail. However, that is not a real problem, as you know it
might happen. Just make two precautions:
1. Dont disconnect the hose when there is pressure and fuel in the bottle-
2. NEVER disconnect the hose while the stove is hot, AND when there at the
same time is fuel and pressure left in the bottle.
The pressure is easy to let out; you just flip the bottle, and the stove
burns what fuel is left in the hose, and when it's empty, the air flows out.
I don't know what causes this failure, but after I started to add a drop of
lubricant into the connector every now and then, I haven't had it happen.
This drop of oil, and twice a year a drop of the same oil on the pump
leather cup is all the maintenance I give this stove.
The NOVA burner itself is very solid and failsafe. High output, few parts,
good simmering(but not a good as on the Explorer). It is a bit noisy, but
not as bad as the MSR's I've "heard". If I were to go on an expedition to
the north pole or something, and only bring one stove (not recommended), it
would be a NOVA.
The Primus I have never tried.
beefeater
cloudbuster
another guy just asked for a BP stove recommendation yesterday
(see there, don´t wanna repeat myself too often) and I was voting
for Optimus ... because:
I´m more than happy with my Nova, I can say that this stove
is one of the finest pieces of equipment I purchased so far.
I´ve used some other stoves before:
- propan/butan, never again
- Coleman Peak 1, clogging problems, too heavy, apart from that
quite nice, excellent simmering
- MSR Whisperlite 600 Int.
- nice stove, no simmering possible, ...
pump broke, and white gas sprayed all over the place !!!
I know that there are lots of people getting old with
their MSR stoves, and those stoves are not bad, but
keep looking around the web/newsgroups for pump failures
and you´ll find a lot. Or ask a MSR dealer.
If I´d need a pump for an Optimus or Primus I´d have to order
it, MSR pumps are readily available everywhere ?!
This pump is a goddamn life threatening joke of a design !
(I´m a precision mechanics engineer)
The dangerous thing about my pump failure is that I didn´t
notice it happened before all of a sudden the fuel came out.
I managed to turn that thing off and tried to localize the
leak. Took me some time and bending and flexing pump
and hose to find it in the valve area.
That thing wouldn´t leak next time, then leaked again,
aaaaarrrgn. Discarded the pump and sold the stove.
- Optimus Nova
as said many times before I´m absolutely happy with it.
Nothing to add. See posting from yesterday
> - allegedly dodgy fuel connection can end up spraying fuel
> on you when disconnecting the line <-- putting me off a lot! is it true?
If you´re in the mood to unscrew the pump from the bottle or disconnect
the hose
while pressurized and the stove is burning/hot feel free to do it.
You´ll see what happens.
With each of the models we are talking
"white gas under pressure and maybe some blue flames not too far away".
Just remember good ol´ beefeater´s lines:
> 1. Dont disconnect the hose when there is pressure and fuel in the bottle-
> 2. NEVER disconnect the hose while the stove is hot, AND when there at the
> same time is fuel and pressure left in the bottle.
3.
> The pressure is easy to let out; you just flip the bottle, and the stove
> burns what fuel is left in the hose, and when it's empty, the air flows out.
Points 1 and 2 are also good mantras for MSR stove users before closing
their
valves.
Choose wisely :)
Karsten
Bill Bradshaw
--
<Bill>
Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska.
N 53°51.140' W 166°30.228' (WGS 84)
"Martin Thornquist" <marti...@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:xunlmar...@brodir.ifi.uio.no...
> [ JT \(edit address to reply\) ]
>
>
MKloepster
>- Coleman Peak 1, clogging problems, too heavy, apart from that
> quite nice, excellent simmering
I've known two people who had their Peak 1's start leaking fuel, to say nothing
of those riduculous little aluminum legs. Wouldn't take one free (well, maybe
free).
>
>- MSR Whisperlite 600 Int.
> - nice stove, no simmering possible, ...
WRONG! Simmering is possible. Just don't over-pump or turn the knob too
quickly.
> pump broke, and white gas sprayed all over the place !!!
> I know that there are lots of people getting old with
> their MSR stoves, and those stoves are not bad, but
> keep looking around the web/newsgroups for pump failures
> and you´ll find a lot. Or ask a MSR dealer.
But I'll bet it's *very* few when compared to the number of whisperlites sold
over the last 15(?) years. Other MSR stoves used that design as well, IIRC.
> If I´d need a pump for an Optimus or Primus I´d have to order
> it, MSR pumps are readily available everywhere ?!
> This pump is a goddamn life threatening joke of a design !
> (I´m a precision mechanics engineer)
If the pump design is such a "life threatening joke," where are all the
half-incinerated plaintiffs? I hope none of MSR's attorneys read this NG,
otherwise you can probably count on hearing from them. When someone
representing himself as an engineer goes around calling a company's products
"life threatening jokes," he would be wise to be able to prove it. At the very
least he should probably be able to state a case for his not having exhibited a
reckless disregard for the truth in making the statement.
> The dangerous thing about my pump failure is that I didn´t
> notice it happened before all of a sudden the fuel came out.
> I managed to turn that thing off and tried to localize the
> leak. Took me some time and bending and flexing pump
> and hose to find it in the valve area.
> That thing wouldn´t leak next time, then leaked again,
> aaaaarrrgn. Discarded the pump and sold the stove.
Why would you try to reuse what you describe as a broken white gas stove pump?
oooo0 (''''') (''''') 0oooo
( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
(....) oooo0 0oooo (....)
Martin Thornquist
> "Martin Thornquist" <marti...@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
> news:xunlmar...@brodir.ifi.uio.no...
>> [about MSR]
>> The new pump design looks good, though I've only seen it on pictures.
>
> Where did you see pictures of the new pump design and bottles?
I'm pretty sure I got a link here on rb, bu tnow I cannot make either
the MSR site not Google tell me about it. Strange. Maybe someone else
got the link?
cloudbuster
WRONG! Simmering is possible. Just don't over-pump or turn the knob
too
> quickly.
I wouldn´t call this real simmering.
> But I'll bet it's *very* few when compared to the number of whisperlites sold
> over the last 15(?) years. Other MSR stoves used that design as well, IIRC.
...
When someone
> representing himself as an engineer goes around calling a company's products
> "life threatening jokes," he would be wise to be able to prove it. At the very
> least he should probably be able to state a case for his not having exhibited a
> reckless disregard for the truth in making the statement.
Thank you very much, I relate that somewhat.
This was not a professional statement, as an engineer I´m not in a
competitive business - I´m a private user and this is my private
opinion. OK?!
I don´t "go around" and call it that way, I´m pissed because my pump
failed.
This pump issue hasn´t been discussed the first time.
If they sold this design over the last 15 years with no problems,
especially
in the US where you have a completely different situation with product
liabilites
than over here in Germany, well then congratulations.
> Why would you try to reuse what you describe as a broken white gas stove pump?
I didn´t reuse it, I had some more looks at the problem.
Karsten
IMHO still to much. Here in Germany there I met some other guys with the
same
MKloepster
>water, let it start to boil again and then let it simmer slowly for a
>number of minutes. Which is not an uncommon task. For the first part of the
>job you want maximum power from your stove so you pump it up to the max,
>light it and heat the water. You then want to turn the heat down and let
>whatever's in the pot simmer. Judging by what you say I need to have very
>little pressure in the fuel bottle in order to let the Whisperlite simmer.
>But the pressure is still high. So how do I get the pressure out of the
>bottle in a safe way in order to let the stove simmer?
Easy. I said don't pump it up too high, not that you must have "very little"
pressure (reread my post if you need to). It's just not that difficult to do.
>Don't be ridiculous. We know you're an MSR fanatic but don't make a bigger
>fool of yourself than necessary please.
>
Hey asshole, look at your own posting history--almost all singing the praises
of primus/optimus (products I have no problem with) and trashing MSR products.
All I've done is report that I have had no problems with my MSR stove. Guess
you can't handle that data. Look in the mirror if you want to see a fanatic.
As for making a fool of yourself, you just did. What I warned the poster about
has happened before (the legal theories are known as product libel or business
disparagement). Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance.
>>Why would you try to reuse what you describe as a broken white gas stove
>pump?
>
>It's hard to find a replacement pump on the trail...
>
>
True. Now tell us how that fact makes using a broken pump any less reckless?
MKloepster
>too
>> quickly.
>
>I wouldn´t call this real simmering.
Isn't a simmer a simmer? What I was trying to say is that many people over
pump to start with. Then they compound the problem by turning the knob too
quickly when trying to reduce from a boil to a simmer (at least with my
whisperlite, the turn slowly takes effect--it's easy to turn it too far and put
the stove out). Takes a little practice at first. It's not like a gas stove,
but it is possible to adjust the whisperlite to a simmer--unless a simmer is
not a simmer ;-)
>This was not a professional statement, as an engineer I´m not in a
>competitive business - I´m a private user and this is my private
>opinion. OK?!
>I don´t "go around" and call it that way, I´m pissed because my pump
>failed.
Didn't mean to scare you--it was really just a friendly warning. Such lawsuits
are possible, but not that common because damages are difficult to prove
(though they may be presumed in some circumstances). Probably even be
jurisdictional issues since you are in Germany. Still, calling something a
life threatening design on the interent effectively publishes that statement to
the world. Stating it as a fact while mentioning that you are an engineer kind
of suggests more of a professional opinion than just one user's personal
opinion. That would be the only reason I think a company might take notice,
but you've made it clear that you are simply an unsatisfied customer who
happens to be an engineer. You should have sent the pump back as defective.
You'd be surprised what some US companies will do to keep your business.
>This pump issue hasn´t been discussed the first time.
>If they sold this design over the last 15 years with no problems,
>especially
>in the US where you have a completely different situation with product
>liabilites
>than over here in Germany, well then congratulations.
>
I'm sure they do break occasionally. How many mass produced products are free
from the odd manufacturing defect? I wasn't intending to imply that the pumps
don't ever break, just that they probably are not a major threat to life and
limb, or MSR would have been sued so many times that the design would have
changed long ago.
>> Why would you try to reuse what you describe as a broken white gas stove
>pump?
>
>I didn´t reuse it, I had some more looks at the problem.
>
>Karsten
Sorry then. It sounded to me that you said you tried to use it again and the
pump still leaked. Whatever brand you buy, I'd take two pumps if I was going
to Africa. Metal or plastic, you're screwed if it stops working for any
reason.
Asle Feten
> [ Bill Bradshaw ]
>
> > "Martin Thornquist" <marti...@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
> > news:xunlmar...@brodir.ifi.uio.no...
> >> [about MSR]
> >> The new pump design looks good, though I've only seen it on pictures.
> >
> > Where did you see pictures of the new pump design and bottles?
>
> I'm pretty sure I got a link here on rb, bu tnow I cannot make either
> the MSR site not Google tell me about it. Strange. Maybe someone else
> got the link?
>
I have seen a picture in the catalog to the norwegian distributor.
--
Asle Feten.
http://home.no.net/afeten/
Ducttape
> Why didn't you answer my question? Because letting out the pressure from
> the MSR bottle involves removing the pot from the stove, letting the stove
> cool down and slowly and carefully unscrewing the pump so that the
> compressed air can be released from the bottle (with no fuel spray if
> you're lucky..)?
> The Whisperlite does not simmer in real life. Period. All stoves made by
> Optimus and Primus do. Period.
Ok, First post here, time for a correction.
My MSR Whisperlite, which I bought last summer, does simmer. You pump it up,
you light it, you can then turn down the little flow knob on the bottle and if
your careful, and not a total wussuck (in which case you shouldn't be using the
stove) you can then simmer on it. Works fine for me.
As for the question of parts, I haven't had any need for any yet, but before
I bought, I checked and you can get them all over europe and australasia as
well as pretty much everywhere else, also you can get the maintanance kits too.
Ok, flame away.
D
--
SAA Assistant Diving Instructor, CSE yr1 Course Rep, Member of Steering.
All views are my own unless stated otherwise
"In motion be like water, Reflect like the mirror, Respond like the echo"
Bill Bradshaw
--
<Bill>
Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska.
N 53°51.140' W 166°30.228' (WGS 84)
"Asle Feten" <u00...@fredag.hit.no> wrote in message
news:nee4rhf...@fredag.hit.no...
Bill Tuthill
beefeater <beefe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, you have gotten good input from an MSR diehard.. Now some from an
> Optimus diehard...
>
> leather cup is all the maintenance I give this stove.
> The NOVA burner itself is very solid and failsafe. High output, few parts,
> good simmering(but not a good as on the Explorer). It is a bit noisy, but
> not as bad as the MSR's I've "heard". If I were to go on an expedition to
> the north pole or something, and only bring one stove (not recommended), it
> would be a NOVA.
Other nice things about the Nova are that it folds smaller and supports
larger pots (without risk of them falling off) than any MSR stove.
However the Coleman Peak 1 Apex 2 Mark 3 costs a less, and lights faster.
Bruce W...1
================================================================
My regular Whisperlite does not simmer. It comes close but requires
much fiddling. It's just not a comfortable range for the design.
Ducttape
> 600 Internationale. They're not the same. The Internationale simmers,
> though not very well. The plain Whisperlite does NOT simmer.
Oh, yes your write, its a Whisperlite Internationale 600, it simmers, you can
get them on your side of the pond.