Nylon Gore-tex vs. Polyester Gore-tex
Qin Liu
Hi everyone,
I've been thinking about getting a Gore-tex shell and having a hard
time deciding between nylon and polyester covers. Most of the jackets
sold are nylon, but the polyester jackets are more supple, breaths
better and is cheaper. The only question is durability, does the
polyester Gore-tex jackets stand up to typical hiking conditions?
Are they easily scratched so that they leak? Anyone had good/bad
experiences with them? Better yet, how do they compare to nylon
jackets?
Thanks for any help...
Qin
Ken Lee
In article <1996Oct19.1...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>, ql...@cs.toronto.edu
>I've been thinking about getting a Gore-tex shell and having a hard
>time deciding between nylon and polyester covers. Most of the jackets
>sold are nylon, but the polyester jackets are more supple, breaths
>better and is cheaper.
Does polyester really breath better? I think nylon is usually more popular
because, for the same strength, it is lighter weight. Polyester is sometimes
used in around-town coats, however, since it is stiffer and thus doesn't
wrinkle as much as nylon.
-------
Ken Lee, http://www.rahul.net/kenton/index.shtml
NtrepiDon
I think the breathability difference is negligible to the breathability of
the GoreTex itself. While more breathable than a plastic poncho, the
stuff CAN get stiffling in the 2-3+ ply range. The more layers of GoreTex
laminate, the more rainproof, but the less breathable. At 2 or 3 ply's
(the most common for regular outdoor use), it is sufficiently
"nonbreathable" to negate any difference in the variences of breathability
of what it is laminated to. Not to say it is nonbreathable with that
amount of layers, it is just sufficiently nonbreathable enough to make the
fabric breathability irrelevant.
NTrepiDon
david mann
NtrepiDon (ntre...@aol.com) wrote:
: I think the breathability difference is negligible to the breathability of
This is completely wrong. NtrepiDon can do some more reading
first since we've discused this issue here ad naseum.
As for distinctions between polyester and nylon outer
fabrics... Good luck finding a polyester outer fabric.
The only one I was aware of was on the now discontinued
Patagonia Super Alpine.
Dave Mann | "It is impossible, or not easy, to do
| noble acts without the proper equipment."
dam...@lynx.neu.edu | Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
Christopher Blair Friesen
Ken Lee (ken...@rahul.net) wrote:
: In article <1996Oct19.1...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>, ql...@cs.toronto.edu
The polyester breathes better because,in general, (dangerous words, I know) water
resistant coatings perform better when applied to polyester than when applied to nylon. Also,
polyester is UV-resistant whereas nylon will break down when exposed to UV light. This last
point is only of interest if you intend to keep the jacket for a long time and don't wear out
your jackets quickly.
One thing that you may find is that due to the greater popularity ofnylon, a good quality
polyester jacket may not be easily found with all the features you desire.
Chris Friesen
Kevin White
Christopher Blair Friesen wrote:
>
> Ken Lee (ken...@rahul.net) wrote:
> : In article <1996Oct19.1...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>, ql...@cs.toronto.edu
> : (Qin Liu) wrote:
> : >I've been thinking about getting a Gore-tex shell and having a hard
> : >time deciding between nylon and polyester covers. Most of the jackets
> : >sold are nylon, but the polyester jackets are more supple, breaths
> : >better and is cheaper.
>
> : Does polyester really breath better? I think nylon is usually more popular
> : because, for the same strength, it is lighter weight. Polyester is sometimes
> : used in around-town coats, however, since it is stiffer and thus doesn't
> : wrinkle as much as nylon.
>
> : -------
> : Ken Lee, http://www.rahul.net/kenton/index.shtml
>
> polyester jacket may not be easily found with all the features you desire.
>
> Chris Friesen
The reason that nylon is so popular is that it is more tear resistant
that polyester. Kind of an inporatnt point when looking for a jacket.
Afterall, that is why nylon is used in most tents and not polyester.
--
Kevin White,
Manager, CWRU Law School Computer Center
kd...@po.cwru.edu
Office:(216)-368-0056
Pager:1-800-MCI-PAGE PIN#2328807
https://cons.mci.com/paging/textsendpage.shtml
Garry Wiegand
ql...@cs.toronto.edu (Qin Liu) wrote:
>I've been thinking about getting a Gore-tex shell and having a hard
>time deciding between nylon and polyester covers. Most of the jackets
>sold are nylon, but the polyester jackets are more supple, breaths
I have a Goretex rain shell and a plain coated nylon rain shell. I
explicitly tested each in equivalent rains, and: I could not detect any
difference. As far as I can tell Gore-tex is just a scam. Save your
money.
garry
PS - Last time around I bought Gore-tex and nylon hiking boots. If I
hike anywhere where it rains (i.e., not in California, where all these
things are designed) my feet get wet instantly. Like I said, this
emperor has no clothes.
Bonnie & David Alley
I agree that Goretex is not a good option in boots, but used in jackets
and pants it does a great job at expelling moisture (up to 25% verses
0%) for waterproof garmets. I would like to know the conditions and
length of this test. Having used Goretex extensively since 1991, I have
to say its the best shell component that modern technology has produced
so far.
David
--
******************************************
* Above The Trees Wilderness Page *
* http://www.mindspring.com/~treeline/ *
******************************************
david mann
Garry Wiegand (ga...@wco.com) wrote:
: I have a Goretex rain shell and a plain coated nylon rain shell. I
: explicitly tested each in equivalent rains, and: I could not detect any
: difference. As far as I can tell Gore-tex is just a scam. Save your
: money.
Well by all means, fill us in on the details. How did you conduct
your test? How did you measure water proofness? How did you measure
breathability? How did you assure similar conditions? Inquiring
minds want to know.
Brad Snow
Perhaps Garry doesn't sweat.
I'd suffered for many years feeling damp
and clammy in coated nylon raingear. Finally bought a g-tx parka in the
spring and you couldn't get that thing from me without a baseball bat
from behind. I find myself leaving my parka on even when it's not
raining, just for the warmth/windbreak/laziness; something I would NEVER
do with my old raingear.
But I sweat........
Brad
Garry Wiegand
dam...@lynx.dac.neu.edu (david mann) wrote:
>Well by all means, fill us in on the details. How did you conduct
>your test? How did you measure water proofness? How did you measure
>breathability? How did you assure similar conditions? Inquiring
>minds want to know.
Uhh... oh dear. You had to ask. 'Twasn't scientific at all. One cool and
drizzly day I went out hiking in the Marin Headlands in my coated-nylon
city rain shell. My shoulders and back of my shirt were saturated-wet
within about 10 minutes. No the nylon wasn't leaking. Then I went out
and bought a Goretex shell. And repeated the experience. And repeated
the results. For twice the price there was no difference *I* could
detect.
When I'm exercising I put out a good amount of water vapor. Probably
most people do. What I don't understand is how *any* stiff plastic
rainproof covering is supposed to let all that water vapor through.
(When you try to *blow* through Goretex, for example, nothing
whatsoever-detectable happens. This material is supposed to somehow let
*all my sweat* through?)
I have since gone back to using my old nylon poncho. The ample
ventilation of a poncho (especially in a breeze!) seems to solve the
inner-humidity problem. Not great, but OK.
garry
PS - I couldn't get a refund on the Goretex, it was unfortunately bought
on sale.
Andrew M.
I have found that Gore-tex works great BUT . . .
You must maintain the repelency of the nylon it's laminated to. If you
bought a cheap Gore-tex garment, it may have no repelancy at all. My
unscientific theory (supported by unscientific experience) is that when a
Gore-tex garment beads water, the space between the beads breathes just
fine. But if the outer nylon gets soaked through, the thin film of water
on the jacket actually blocks the passage of the water vapor through the
garment. Try it. I have tried both wash-in and spray-on repelants, and
have had better luck with the spray-on kinds. Techtron is my current
favorite, but I am about to re-open the search for something that will
maintain repelancy longer. By the way, for the reasons below, never (EVER)
wash a Gore-tex garment in detergent soap solution. Use Ivory Snow.
One more thing, try not to wear cotton under the Gore-tex. It is
hydrophilic (water attracting) and will hold on to moisture, not letting it
escape through the shell. Ideally, wear only synthetics underneath, and
wash them in non-detergents (Ivory snow). Detergents are also
hydrophillic, and will bond to synthetic fibers making another moisture
trap. If you want the ultimate effectiveness, try a wash-in a
water-repellant designed for polar fleece on any synthetic garment. It
puts a waxy hydrophobic film on every fiber to "push" moisture away through
the Gore-tex.
I know it sounds like a hassle, but you've already made the investment in
the shell, and I think you will really like Gore-tex if you try these
tricks.
David Mann
Garry Wiegand wrote:
> Uhh... oh dear. You had to ask. 'Twasn't scientific at all. One cool and
> drizzly day I went out hiking in the Marin Headlands in my coated-nylon
> city rain shell. My shoulders and back of my shirt were saturated-wet
> within about 10 minutes. No the nylon wasn't leaking. Then I went out
> and bought a Goretex shell. And repeated the experience. And repeated
> the results. For twice the price there was no difference *I* could
> detect.
Yup. You can outsweat GoreTex pretty easily. Two further experiential
experiments.
First, repeat the above experiment with periods of rest
interspersed. Then check to see with which jacket you are
drier at days end in. Even though it doesn't breath like
a cotton t-shirt, it does breath. Most folks will find that
they are drier at day's end in GoreTex. [note: I did not
say bone dry, just drier.]
Secondly, on a cool clear day, wear a comparable uncoated nylon
jacket zipped up tight and repeat your hike. No fair unzipping
it to cool off. What you are looking for is how well plain nylon
breaths by itself. If you are like most folks, you will be soaked
with sweat pretty quick. Point being that plain nylon doesn't
breath that great to begin with. Adding GoreTex doesn't help.
Now, I've hiked in that central coast soup before. And probably,
you didn't need full out waterproof protection. If your GoreTex
jacket was a high end coat complete with underarm pit-zips,
opening them while hiking would have helped a great deal.
I've thought for a long time that there is a market for
similar jackets made from non-breathable nylon but noone
listens to me.
Dave Mann
Jeff Wilson
Speaking of waterproofing, I have a problem.
I have an Eddie Bauer shell. It is made of teflon coated threads. It
was fantactically waterproof when new but very breathable.
Unfortunately, it lost its waterproofing after its first washing
following manufacturer's instructions. I've tried Nikwax, 3M and the
brown can spray stuff. Nothing returns it to the orignal
waterproofing.
Anyone with a solution?
|Jeff Wilson jrwi...@gv.net
|
|...... Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within.....
Garry Wiegand
I hear y'all. The non-Goretex jacket I have is actually pretty well
vented, significant openings all around, although not under the arms.
(Those extra zippered openings start to be a lot of sewing; they might
as well use Goretex.) The Goretex one does have the full panoply of
vents. It is *not* very inherent water-repellent: this Goretex has
sort of a fuzzy finish rather than a shiny finish, and the water does
not bead up almost at all.
But, be all that as it may, I *was* probably wearing cotton underneath
on both occasions. I should invest in some poly (wasn't cold enough
for wool.) And, yes, I probably ought to expect to get at least a
little wet hiking in the rain.
Thanks for all the comments. I think I see that I should be a little
more respectful of Goretex.
garry
josiej...@gmail.com
Someone should bring that tech back
Additional bonus was that it didn't use any environmentally damaging dwr (as far as I'm aware, I'm not 100% on the but I think they used polyurethane)