Mud or Quicksand
SD4...@webtv.net
Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while they
were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some people have
had problems because of it. Let me know if you have ever been in it,
Thanks,
Andy
N. Adams
I ran into some deep mud once which was due to a seep spring. Freaked me
out initially since I was alone, but luckily I hit bottom just below my
waist and was able to pull myself out. Didn't cause any real problem since,
although it was winter and the mountains, it was sunny and I managed to get
my pants dry fairly quickly. The boots and socks were an entirely different
matter, but because I had good ones on my feet at least stayed relatively
warm.
Jeannie Williams
SD4...@webtv.net wrote:
> Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while
> they were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some
> people have had problems because of it. Let me know if you have
> ever been in it
My younger sister had her sandal slurped off in an encounter with what
acted like quicksand on a hike we were on many years ago,
don't think she has yet forgiven my brother & I for the split
second we debated hauling her out. (We did however, and then blackmailed
her into promising not to tell Mom about the episode.) Neither she nor
the subsequent objects which we experimentally hurled into the
"quicksand" ever appeared to hit bottom, including a stick which was
taller than any of us, so I don't know how deep it was.
Andrew Stephenson
AFAIK, true quicksand, as opposed to very soft mud, occurs when
water rises through the mud/sand/&c. For this reason, sandbanks
at sea can be firm while the tide ebbs but switch to quicksands
when the tide turns. The same conditions would be found where,
say, a spring is welling up through mud; so one could watch for
q/s in such places. FWIW.
Of course, it's no consolation to know that the goop you are busy
sinking into is just very soft mud, not true q/s. Dead is dead.
--
Andrew Stephenson
tgb
> SD4...@webtv.net wrote:
> > Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while
> > they were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some
> > people have had problems because of it. Let me know if you have
> > ever been in it
I have heard and read, a number of times, from sources that struck me
as quite authoritative and (even better), for reasons that at the time I
found very sound, that you really ain't in danger of "quicksand." I
don't think I can recapitulate the science behind it but while there is
such a thing, something about the specific gravity of your body being
lighter than sand so that you just ain't gonna sink unless you're a fool
enough to thrash your way uncontrollably down and basically drown. In
other words, whether sand or mud, if there's enough water in it to make
it porous enough to let your body sink in it, there's enough water to
float you, albeit in a less than perfect, "in the lake by the cottage in
the summer way." And, in fact, I don't think I've ever read in any book
of non-fiction an account of anyone ever dying in "quicksand" or a
mudhole. Maybe someone here would like to volunteer to prove me right?
tgb
GEORGE W. GAMBILL
Been there, Done that. While hiking with a group along a stream bed on
the wet sand, I stepped in a hole and my entire right leg disappeared.
Fortunately, only my right leg went in. Probably could have gotten out
by myself with little effort.
According to the ranch owner, quicksand is caused from underground
water flowing keeping the sand from packing. It seems the sand stays
in a semi state of suspension. It sure looked every bit as firm and
the rest of the wet sand. And it offered no (read NO) resistance.
My leg sank every bit as fast as it would have in clear water.
Hope this helps.
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Gene S. Snider
SD4...@webtv.net wrote:
>Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while they
>were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some people have
>had problems because of it. Let me know if you have ever been in it,
>Thanks,
>Andy
Every year in engineering school, we had a spring demo open to the
public where we showed our engineering prowess. One of our exhibits
for many years was the quicksand tank. We filled a large tank with
various grades of sand and forced water up through it and out the top.
We put different student volunteers in the tank to demonstrate to the
public that you will not sink in quicksand. Most people with swimming
suits on sunk only up to their waists. With a full backpack, most
people would sink down to the chest level ( with the pack full of
sand) If we filled the packs with water jugs, the subjects would not
sink as deeply. Actually, you can lay flat on quick sand and do a
very slow swim. All said, if you fell head first into quicksand you
would probably have a problem, but feet first is not very serious.
Depending on the water flow rate, we could vary how fast the subjects
sank. Once the water flow rate increased past a certain point, there
was no more quicksand, but just sandy water in agitation.
The problem was serious if we turned the water off while the subject
was floating at waist level. At this point, getting out of the sand
was almost impossible but could be done with something overhead to
pull up on.
Gene
Gene S. Snider
Eugene Miya
In article <6f0chb$9h3$1...@newsd-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
<SD4...@webtv.net> wrote:
>Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while they
>were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some people have
>had problems because of it. Let me know if you have ever been in it,
Sure.
It's not a big deal. But first remember this: don't panic.
Makes for amusing photos (Zion in our case). Make certain that you are
not wearing valuable footwear. Getting it slurped off can be expensive.
David Wissenbach
>Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while they
>were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some people have
>had problems because of it. Let me know if you have ever been in it,
While fishing on the Warm Springs Creek which is a tributary of the
South Fork of the Payette River, Idaho, between the highway and the
hot springs at Bonneville campground I inadvertantly placed myself in
extreme jeapordy by stepping in quicksand at the bottom of this rapidly
flowing, but small, stream. I think that the quicksand was caused by water
running down in between some boulders and then flowing up through the
sandy bottom.
The danger was in being stuck in the sand, unable to move, waist deep in
rapidly flowing water. I was able to work myself out of the quicksand, but
I still remember the moment rather vividly, and I suggest that you learn
from my experience. Quicksand under moving water is very dangerous.
By the way, the hot springs are excellent, the stream is beautiful, and yes,
I did catch a few trout here!
Jeannie Williams
David Wissenbach wrote:
>
> >Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand
> >while they were hiking.
> South Fork of the Payette River, Idaho, between the highway and the
> hot springs at Bonneville campground I inadvertantly placed myself in
> extreme jeapordy by stepping in quicksand at the bottom of this
> rapidly flowing, but small, stream. I think that the quicksand was
> caused by water running down in between some boulders and then
> flowing up through the sandy bottom.
> The danger was in being stuck in the sand, unable to move, waist
> deep in rapidly flowing water. I was able to work myself out of
> the quicksand, but I still remember the moment rather vividly,
> and I suggest that you learn from my experience. Quicksand under
> moving water is very dangerous.
Especially if there are carnivores swimming around downstream, keeping
an eye on you .
Eugene Miya
In article <351715...@spiritone.com>,
Jeannie Williams <jean...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>Especially if there are carnivores swimming around downstream, keeping
>an eye on you .
I heard a good joke about this.
Scott Surgent
I stepped up to my knee in goopy quicksand while skirting a creek on Boundary
Peak's NE side in Nevada. It looked solid and I didn't give it a second thought,
of course, until my leg was swallowed up. I may as well have stepped on water.
It was my first experience with quicksand. Fortunately, a hiking partner on firm
ground gave me a hand to hoist myself out.
Scott
tgb wrote:
> > SD4...@webtv.net wrote:
> > > Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while
> > > they were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some
> > > people have had problems because of it. Let me know if you have
ybyee
Don't know if this "Have you ever experienced deep mud or quicksand?" is
from the same (or similar) poster as years back, but, at that time, I
posted "Sure. Whychawannaknow?", and got a private e-mail in reply. He
explained that he was a "deep-mud fetishist" and wanted details/locations
for, ahem, gratification. Like the Good Citizen I am, I told him I couldn't
help him out because quicksand, even backcountry mud, was not something one
ought to causually immerse oneself in. Then he got nasty - accused me of
being "judgemental" and so forth.
Anyway, just thought you might want to consider (if you care one
way/other about such things) the possible motives re queries about
nude-hiking, skinny-dipping, even quicksand - that was a new one to me:
very enlightning! - before "taking the bait"...
Eugene Miya
In article <01bd5751$6f467d60$2512a8c0@ybyee>, ybyee <as...@lafn.org> wrote:
>He explained that he was a "deep-mud fetishist" and wanted details/locations
>for, ahem, gratification.
>ought to causually immerse oneself in. Then he got nasty - accused me of
>being "judgemental" and so forth.
Well life is full of the diversity of people.
Actually, I have a rare copy of the Vulgarian Digest. The Vulgarians
were a group of climbers and others who were loosely organized, how
shall I saw, contrary to the wishes of the Eastern outing club the AMC.
The particular issue I have is on "Obscenic Float Trips." That issue
was on the Snake River in the Tetons.
As Bill Thacker who used to moderate sci.military used use to say:
"If they can't take a joke, farg them."
Eugene Miya
In article <6f2jeh$r...@newsops.execpc.com>, tgb <t...@execpc.com> wrote:
>the summer way." And, in fact, I don't think I've ever read in any book
>of non-fiction an account of anyone ever dying in "quicksand" or a
>mudhole. Maybe someone here would like to volunteer to prove me right?
The place to check would be the paleontology news group.
Clearly animals get die in mud holes around the world.
maohai huang
Eugene Miya (eug...@cse.ucsc.edu) wrote:
: Clearly animals get die in mud holes around the world.
in the "closed universe" cosmology model everything in the universe
is bounded by the gravity that everything collectively contributes,
and the gravity is so big that nothing even light can escape to
infinity. So in a sense the world is surrounded in a huge black hole.
what I didn't know it is full of mud.
- mh
Jeannie Williams
Well it certainly explains a lot. It's probably full of superstrings.
Does Steve Hawkins know about this?
So we're all just kind of stuck here in this mudhole waiting for the
light to get in?
Pete Hickey
In article <6f9e6r$dcn$1...@news1.bu.edu>, maohai huang <mhu...@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>in the "closed universe" cosmology model everything in the universe
>is bounded by the gravity that everything collectively contributes,
>and the gravity is so big that nothing even light can escape to
>infinity. So in a sense the world is surrounded in a huge black hole.
>what I didn't know it is full of mud.
>
Bet you also didn't know that the center of all of this
is Washington DC.
-Pete
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Pete Hickey
In article <6f6d2c$d...@darkstar.ucsc.edu>,
Eugene Miya <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote:
> don't panic.
Easy to say, but the situation is so weird and different
that it is hard not to.
> Make certain that you are
>not wearing valuable footwear. Getting it slurped off can be expensive.
Yeah, the footware was teh big thing. If I hadn't been so cheap
and tried to save it, we wouldn't have had any problem.
I was out for a hike with the 2 kids (age 3 and 4 maybe). It was
early spring and most snow was gone. There was a section being
cleared for a housing project and we crossed it. The ground was
almost pure clay.
Al of the sudden, JP2 (the youngest guy) started crying because
he was stuck. He was just a bit more than ankle deep in the mud.
I laughed and walked over to get him. As I picked him up,
two things happened. His boots came off and I started sinking
deeper.
Now a good parent shouldn't put a kid down in the mud without
boots on, so I inserted him back into the boots and started
working on getting the boots out of the mud.
Suction held them in tight, and as I pulled them up, I forced
myself deeper into the mud. While this was going on, JP1 came
along and he got stuck.
I had to get the boots out by digging them out with my hands.
That muddy clay was cold! Well, when we got home, we were
covered with this gray mud. Head, face, arms, everything.
The neighbors came out and took pictures. They laughed at us.
Now, here is the weird part. My finger tips hurt. They were
cold. As I washed off the thick layer of clay, I could see
the gray-white color which was typical of frostbite. Yep, for
some reason, this clay was cold enough to freeze my finger tips.
Robert Ramirez
maohai huang wrote:
> in the "closed universe" cosmology model everything in the universe
> is bounded by the gravity that everything collectively contributes,
> and the gravity is so big that nothing even light can escape to
> infinity. So in a sense the world is surrounded in a huge black hole.
> what I didn't know it is full of mud.
Must be that "dark matter" everyone's talking about.
Jack
>> > Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while
>> > they were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some
>> > people have had problems because of it. Let me know if you have
>> > ever been in it
There is certainly "quicksand" along the mudflats in southcentral Alaska,
say along Turnagain Arm near Anchorage. One woman drowned in the incoming
tide even as a helicopter was hovering over her trying to pull her out. Of
course, hypothermia also played a role in her demise, no doubt. But people
continue to wander out on the mudflats.
Luke Miller
tgb,
I don't think you have to worry about it hiking, if you're careful!! I
once jumped onto what I thought was a sand bar from the far bank of a creek.
I landed up to my chest in muck. I would have never gotten out w/o my
friend nearby with a branch. I may not have drown as it seems I had hit
bottom but I had no way to get out. Don't just look before you leap, throw
rocks!!
tgb wrote in message <6f2jeh$r...@newsops.execpc.com>...
>> SD4...@webtv.net wrote:
>> > Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while
>> > they were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some
>> > people have had problems because of it. Let me know if you have
>> > ever been in it
>
>as quite authoritative and (even better), for reasons that at the time I
>found very sound, that you really ain't in danger of "quicksand." I
>don't think I can recapitulate the science behind it but while there is
>such a thing, something about the specific gravity of your body being
>lighter than sand so that you just ain't gonna sink unless you're a fool
>enough to thrash your way uncontrollably down and basically drown. In
>other words, whether sand or mud, if there's enough water in it to make
>it porous enough to let your body sink in it, there's enough water to
>float you, albeit in a less than perfect, "in the lake by the cottage in
>of non-fiction an account of anyone ever dying in "quicksand" or a
>mudhole. Maybe someone here would like to volunteer to prove me right?
>
Robert Ramirez
Luke Miller wrote:
>
> tgb,
> I don't think you have to worry about it hiking, if you're careful!! I
> once jumped onto what I thought was a sand bar from the far bank of a creek.
> I landed up to my chest in muck. I would have never gotten out w/o my
> friend nearby with a branch. I may not have drown as it seems I had hit
> bottom but I had no way to get out. Don't just look before you leap, throw
> rocks!!
At the risk of resurrecting the dreaded "dogs in backcountry" thread,
allow me to point out that before you throw that rock you should
restrain your dog. I didn't once, and my dog leaped out to fetch it,
and promptly sank in the mud, from his feet to halfway up his back.
Getting him out was no easy task, and getting the gluey mud washed off
was even harder!
Tim Hewitt
Luke Miller wrote:
>
> tgb,
> I don't think you have to worry about it hiking, if you're careful!! I
> once jumped onto what I thought was a sand bar from the far bank of a creek.
> I landed up to my chest in muck. I would have never gotten out w/o my
> friend nearby with a branch. I may not have drown as it seems I had hit
> bottom but I had no way to get out. Don't just look before you leap, throw
> rocks!!
I had a similar experience in the south rim country of Arizona. We were hiking
in a side canyon in Navajo country and I simply stepped off the side of a
"dry" riverbed about a foot down to the slightly muddy, but more level surface
nearer the stream. I was immediately in mud up to my waist, and literally
threw my upper body back onto the bank for stability.
My hiking partners pulled me out. I had on good high boots that were well
laced, so I kept my boots on :).
I took a long stick and probed it into the mud from the safety of the bank
(after washing off in the nearby stream). I was able to work the stick down
it's full length - 9 feet or so - without meeting any resistance. I don't know
if this "sucking mud" would have held me until I became a fossil for future
generations of archeologists or not...
Jeannie Williams
maohai huang wrote:
>
> in the "closed universe" cosmology model everything in the universe
> is bounded by the gravity that everything collectively contributes,
> and the gravity is so big that nothing even light can escape to
> infinity. So in a sense the world is surrounded in a huge black hole.
> what I didn't know it is full of mud.
So is the capture cross section [probability] for being trapped in this
mud on earth increased or decreased by the gravitational pull of the
moon?
maohai huang
Jeannie Williams (jean...@spiritone.com) wrote:
: maohai huang wrote:
: > what I didn't know it is full of mud.
: So is the capture cross section [probability] for being trapped in this
: mud on earth increased or decreased by the gravitational pull of the
: moon?
just count the meteors
Jeannie Williams
maohai huang wrote:
>
> Jeannie Williams (jean...@spiritone.com) wrote:
> : maohai huang wrote:
> : > what I didn't know it is full of mud.
>
> : So is the capture cross section [probability] for being trapped in
> : moon?
>
> just count the meteors
I've heard that the more one knows about how fast they're moving the
less they know about where they are.
Rod Bittick
I remember reading in Abbey's "Desert Solitaire" a quicksand story. I don't
remember the particulars, but I think the story went something like this . .
. Abbey was hiking along a desert wash with a friend. The friend had gone
ahead. Sometime later Abbey came upon his friend, calmly smoking a pipe
while sunk up to his knees in a patch of quicksand. Apparently, the fellow
hadn't been paying attention to where he was going and when he stopped to
light up found himself sinking. The quicksand was easily crossed after the
friend was out by simply walking swiftly or running across it. It was only
when you stopped moving that you sunk.
At least, that's how I recall the story. I'm sure that somebody here has
the book and can look up the story.
- - Rod
http://home.inreach.com/pixub/rod.htm
"Where are we headed? And what's with this handbasket?"
Luke Miller wrote in message <6fgsuq$hs1$1...@news.ispn.net>...
>tgb,
> I don't think you have to worry about it hiking, if you're careful!! I
>once jumped onto what I thought was a sand bar from the far bank of a
creek.
>I landed up to my chest in muck. I would have never gotten out w/o my
>friend nearby with a branch. I may not have drown as it seems I had hit
>bottom but I had no way to get out. Don't just look before you leap, throw
>rocks!!
mikeb...@yahoo.com
> Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while they
> were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some people have
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
I love playing in mud wearing Chest-waders and rain-ware. I found that two or three layers helps when getting back to car I put the muddy cloths into plastic bags. It does make getting out of the mud pit(s) a bit harder. But that in itself can be quit FUN!
In N.W. Ga. is Carters Lake, and at it's base is a Re-Regulation lake. Each weekday the upper lake is used to send extra electric power into the national grid. This starts from 2 to 6 PM and ends about midnight (Mon-Fri.). When the lower lake's level falls below 30' at the dam base mud flats are exposed at the south end of lake. The best times to find the lowest levels occur Sun. afternoon thru Mon. AM
I have walked out into the mud up to my thighs and could not go any deeper. I had to lay down and slowly work my way back to shore I have started using a knotted rope tried off to a tree on shore.
For water level data go to http://ga.water.usgs.gov/ click on Geographic Area and select Georgia then select USGS Water Resources of Georgia: on the right side
Enter a USGS site number 02382400
Directions: Exit 320 I-75 Take Ga. 136 East to Carters Lake (about 18 mi.) cross lower lake and turn right on fishing accuse road for parking. Note: the lake is owned by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. 50' above the high water does not have any No Trespass problems.
sgt23
Pelican...@outlook.com
> Has anyone ever had an experience with deep mud or quicksand while they
> were hiking. From what I understand it does exist and some people have
> had problems because of it. Let me know if you have ever been in it,
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
The ground was wet and slippery so I ended up sliding down a short 2-3 meter dirt cliff into a big pit of mud, straight up to my thighs. I was scared and confused so the first thing I did was panic. I tried a lot of things to get out, but my struggling inevitably made me sink much deeper.
I was up to my neck in the mud when 3 older teenagers found me and agreed to rescue me, as I continued to slowly descend into the muck. I was terrified and I was sure I would drown! Eventually, I sank deep enough for the mud to engulf my whole face too. But luckily the guys managed to rescue me before I drowning :)
Damage was still done though - I had multiple X-ray scans and doctors appointments because I tore a couple of neck muscles and my lungs had some mud inside them. A few tetnas shots and some less intensive excersice later and I was back to normal :D
hlil...@juno.com
a specific gravity of just over 1. For mud and quicksand it is above 1.7. You
will effectively float if you just stay still. To sink you have to pretty much
swim downward.