goretex: 2ply vs 3ply
Matt Larouche
all that I have read is that Goretex is still the best
waterproof/breathable fabric available, so I guess that is my choice
laminate. My problem is that I had a generic goretex jacket (2ply) for
hiking and packing and I found that it was not that breathable!! :P I
realize that breathablity depends on the user, but I dont sweat that much
(and I am sticking to that claim :)). I was wondering if anyone can
comment on their experiences using 2ply and 3ply and whether 3ply is worth
the extra $$ as far as being noticably better for breathing, durability,
etc. OR if there are anyone laminates or fabrics worth considering? thanks
Matt Larouche
Department of Physiology and Biophysics 3330 Hospital Drive
Neuroscience Research Group
University of Calgary Calgary, AB T2N 4N1
Gary S.
<mrla...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>Hi I am looking at buying a jacket for backpacking this spring, and from
>all that I have read is that Goretex is still the best
>waterproof/breathable fabric available, so I guess that is my choice
>laminate. My problem is that I had a generic goretex jacket (2ply) for
>hiking and packing and I found that it was not that breathable!! :P I
>realize that breathablity depends on the user, but I dont sweat that much
>(and I am sticking to that claim :)). I was wondering if anyone can
>comment on their experiences using 2ply and 3ply and whether 3ply is worth
>the extra $$ as far as being noticably better for breathing, durability,
>etc. OR if there are anyone laminates or fabrics worth considering? thanks
>
I have been disappointed with the durability of 2-ply Gore-Tex with a
separate mesh lining. While reasonably breathable, the mesh scrubbed
away the PTFE membrane where my pack's lumbar pad and shoulder straps
touched.
Three ply, which is on my wish list, is more breathable because there
is less lining. The new PacLite Gore-Tex, which is a variation on 3
ply (the inner layer is tiny rubbery dots instead of a light mesh) is
promising, but as a general rule, I try not to buy new technology the
first year out.
Pit zips are vital, as well as a loose enough fit to allow a
bellows-type action to pump moist air out.
Adjusting/removing inner layers to avoid overheating is a key point
sometimes overlooked.
HTH,
Happy trails,
Gary
------------------------------------------------
Beware of enterprises which require new toes. DA
Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
S Unger
regular duty. I hiked Mt. Washington at 20F and 70mph winds and was warm as
toast with just a few layers of wool, balaclava, and mittens. It seems to do
fantastic with wind and light moisture and is incredibly durable. Rustles
slightly. Heavy rain performance is OK but not perfect.
2-ply seems to be just as good as the 3-ply except it's surely not as
durable. Just as good as 3-ply. A little quieter and less stiff. I have seen a
lot of 2-plys that are torn in various places like the shoulders & arms.
I'd go with the 3-ply for serious usage. If you are looking for a top
quality 3-ply and don't mind camo pattern, you can find the Extreme Cold
Weather System military parka at various places such as flea markets for
around $100 and it is surely bombproof, tho a little heavy in weight.
Stuart
Matt Larouche wrote:
> Hi I am looking at buying a jacket for backpacking this spring, and from
> all that I have read is that Goretex is still the best
> waterproof/breathable fabric available, so I guess that is my choice
> laminate. My problem is that I had a generic goretex jacket (2ply) for
> hiking and packing and I found that it was not that breathable!! :P I
> realize that breathablity depends on the user, but I dont sweat that much
> (and I am sticking to that claim :)). I was wondering if anyone can
> comment on their experiences using 2ply and 3ply and whether 3ply is worth
> the extra $$ as far as being noticably better for breathing, durability,
> etc. OR if there are anyone laminates or fabrics worth considering? thanks
>
nom...@noplace.com
3-ply since 3 ply is actually glued at points (probably small and perhaps
insignificant) to two layers (one on each side) of fabric. IMO, more fabric =
less breathability. However, I own both an old Moonstone 2ply and a newer
Marmot 3ply, and the 3ply doesn't seem much more or less breathable than the
former. The differences I see and confirm with others I've talked with are:
2-ply:
PROS
- usually cheaper
- breathability (? - someone may have better insights on this)
- more flexible / natural drape
- often lighter than 3-ply
CONS
-wear - a loose lining can snag / usually doesn't protect laminate as well.
3-ply
PROS
- more durable as laminate is well protected inside and out
CONS
- potato chip bag sound when you move - they tend to be less flexible but
this is improving
- more expensive in general than 2-ply
- often heavier than 2-ply
Both (general comments)
- Gore Tex is a great material, but is NOT a miracle fabric. Breathability
drops significantly when the outside surface of a garment is wet (soaked) with
rain or other precip. This is usually offset by application of DWR (durable
water repellent) that is basically a chemical coating that causes water to bead
on the outside of the garment and thereby reduce the negative effects of a wet
outer surface. Maintaining the DWR is key to maintaining breathability. Most
DWRs, particularly after they age, only work so long though in a serious
downpour, even if you renew them regularly as per mfr recs.
- Everyone sweats. Even if you're only moderately active or not really a
sweaty beast, you produce a LOT of water vapor. While GT can pass quite a bit
of this moisture in the right conditions (particularly in colder less moist
environments or where GT is primarily used for wind protection), it will still
be overwhelmed under some circumstances (like the one mentioned in the above
paragraph). Disagree? Then ask yourself: "If GT is such a miracle fabric -
why include pit zips and other ventilation aids???" Many people think their
GT-wear is leaking when in fact it is primarily condensation of their own
sweat.
- Segway from above. Focus on ventilation features when buying GT-wear for
most climates. Pit zips are a great idea. You can even pop your hands and
arms out of them and use the jacket like a vest if you're just looking for wind
protection. Also, many pockets may double as vents in some jackets. Useful
only if the opening is well shielded from the elements for when you don't
really want the opening.
- The 2-ply / 3-ply is mostly an issue of taste, budget, and the ever
important "abuse factor". Having owned both, I find that each performs very
well in most conditions, particularly if you keep up the DWR. Neither perform
great in a downpour - but are no worse than the alternatives.
If you're looking for a good deal, I understand that LL Bean makes both
2-ply and 3-ply jackets that are supposed to be overlooked bargains - high
quality, relatively low price. Haven't physically seen them though.
Good luck!
Volker Hetzer
>
> Hi I am looking at buying a jacket for backpacking this spring, and from
> all that I have read is that Goretex is still the best
> waterproof/breathable fabric available, so I guess that is my choice
> laminate. My problem is that I had a generic goretex jacket (2ply) for
> hiking and packing and I found that it was not that breathable!! :P I
> realize that breathablity depends on the user, but I dont sweat that much
> (and I am sticking to that claim :)). I was wondering if anyone can
> comment on their experiences using 2ply and 3ply and whether 3ply is worth
> the extra $$ as far as being noticably better for breathing, durability,
> etc. OR if there are anyone laminates or fabrics worth considering? thanks
get back down in a hurry I got wet from the sweat. I guess, there is no perfect
material.
Try to find a compromise between getting wet from the rain and from the sweat.
For light rain, try waterproofed "normal" clothing like fleece.
For heavy rain, find a spot to hide or move slowly.
Greetings!
Volker
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