Charted MEAs May Be Incorrect
Geoff Peck
writes:
> 3. DUATS does not provide FDC NOTAM information.
Actually, DUATS *does* provide FDC NOTAMS, at least if you don't
specifically decline to see them. However, it does not have *published*
FDC NOTAMS -- it only has those which are not yet in print (typically,
those which are less than 2-3 weeks old).
I checked on the V496 MEA NOTAM, 0/5178, near GFL, and, indeed, it wasn't
in DUATS as of today.
FDC 0/5506 FMH FI/T /FMH/ FLIGHT RESTRICTION CAPE COD AFS,
MASSACHUSETTS..... EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.
PURSUANT TO FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATION 91.137A(1) TEMPORARY
FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT WITHIN A 1 NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS
OF......414508.4N/703218W...... AT AND BELOW 4267 FT AGL.
CAPE TRACON IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY, 508 563-6833.
THE RADAR ENERGY TRANSMITTED BY THE U.S.A.F. PAVE PAWS RADAR
SYSTEM CREATES A HAZARD TO PEOPLE AND AIRCRAFT.
QUESTIONS PLEASE CONTACT CHARLES TAYLOR, ANE-535 (617) 270-2428.
Geoff
Glossary (!):
DUATS direct user access terminal system, a system which allows
pilots to obtain on-line weather and other information at
no charge
FDC federal data center
NOTAM notice to airmen
MEA minimum enroute altitude
V496 an airway designator (like "Interstate 5")
GFL the Glens Falls, New York VOR
VOR VHF Omnidirectional Range - a common electronic NAVAID
VHF very high frequency
NAVAID navigation aid
--
Geoff Peck, Apple Computer, Inc., MS 3PK, Cupertino, CA 95014
ge...@apple.com (408) 974-9303 #include <disclaimer.h>
Gregory TRAVIS
>FDC 0/5506 FMH FI/T /FMH/ FLIGHT RESTRICTION CAPE COD AFS,
> MASSACHUSETTS..... EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.
> PURSUANT TO FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATION 91.137A(1) TEMPORARY
> FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT WITHIN A 1 NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS
> OF......414508.4N/703218W...... AT AND BELOW 4267 FT AGL.
> CAPE TRACON IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY, 508 563-6833.
> THE RADAR ENERGY TRANSMITTED BY THE U.S.A.F. PAVE PAWS RADAR
> SYSTEM CREATES A HAZARD TO PEOPLE AND AIRCRAFT.
> QUESTIONS PLEASE CONTACT CHARLES TAYLOR, ANE-535 (617) 270-2428.
I'm a little confused. Isn't that area already RESTRICTED? It's right around Otis AFB
and it's been restricted as long as I can remember.
>Glossary (!):
You forgot:
PAVE PAWS: A Big O'l radar for looking at the Russians.
I usually fly right over it on cold winter mornings on the way to MVY. Tends to warm
up cockpit when it's chilly.
Ok, I'm not being serious.
NEWS FOOD
NEWS FOOD
NEWS FOOD
NEWS FOOD
NEWS FOOD
NEWS FOOD
NEWS FOOD
--
Gregory R. Travis Indiana University, Bloomington IN 47405
gr...@cica.cica.indiana.edu Center for Innovative Computer Applications
Just another opinion from out on the green at the Trail of Tears golf course...
Val Christian
From: J.KOON,MSD,B23,KP, 5th FLR, phone 71919, mail code 24201
Subject: IFR, obscure, but important, information
SITUATION:
1. V496, S.W.and N.E. of GFL (Glens Falls VOR) has a MEA of 4500 on NOS L-25
enroute low altitude chart.
2. Airport/Facilities Directory shows radials in those sectors as unusable
below 11000.
QUESTION(s): with answer
1. Am I missing something ?
YES, a complete enough understanding of how the system works.
2. Shouldn't the navaid that defines the airway (GFL) be useable at the MEA ?
YES, but the current and correct MEA is not necessarily on the chart !
3. Is this a charting error ?
NO, Not according to the rules for charting used by NOS/JEPPS/FAA.
4. Should I call the 800 number on the chart to report a charting error ?
NO, because it is not an error, but yes, call 1-800-626-3677 to leave
a recorded question or call back request for information.
SOME EXPLANATION:
After several different answers about this situation from, other pilots,
instructors, and a JEPPS representative, I called the NOAA report charting
errors phone number on the chart, phone(1-800-626-3677). A call back person
did not have an explanation of the situation but referred me to Buck Buchanon
at 301-443-8474. He researched the situation and called me back to say that
there is an FDC notam 0/5178 which raises the MEA to 10,000 between GFL (Glens
Falls, N.Y. vortac) and KERST intersection on V496. A future AIRPORT/FACILITY
DIRECTORY will indicate the VOR radials unusable below the NOTAMed MEA of
10,000. Once I had ALL THE INFORMATION (I think), it made sense.
WHAT DID I LEARNED:
1. MEAs, MOCAs, MRAs and other information on charts is not always correct.
2. ALWAYS ask for FDC notams specifically when getting a briefing for a trip.
3. DUATS does not provide FDC NOTAM information.
4. Conversations with Flight Service Stations are recorded and available for
play-back for at least 5 days after your briefing. This information came from
another pilot's experience.
5. Getting ALL the information pertinent to a flight can take weeks under some
circumstances.
6. The definition of temporary for NOTAM purposes has no definition that I can
find.
David E Allen
Posted for Jim Koon, who lacks direct net access:
Well, yes a director who ever cut celluloid. Woods's work makes Russ
Meyer look like Ingmar Bergman. He was a war hero -- a Marine
who wore pantyhose under his uniform while leading charges.
Once he got his hands on a movie camera, he made somne
incredible turkeys with his friends Bela Lugois (by then an
overweight morphine addict), a wrestler named Tor Johnsen, and
other wonderful actors.
Pel Torro would have made an ideal scriptwriter for him.
Wood's budgets were so low that the same furniture will turn up
in a living room scene and then a patio scene -- his alien
spaceships have things like "Buick" visible in thei
p...@stardent.com
>enroute low altitude chart.
>
>2. Airport/Facilities Directory shows radials in those sectors as unusable
>below 11000.
Without knowing about the FDC Notam, here's what I would have said:
Normal service volumes of VORs are generally only needed when filing off
airway. Otherwise, the airway has been surveyed and the reception of the
VOR is guarenteed on the airway above the MEA below the MAA, and/or above
MOCA within 22nm of the VOR. Thus had I encountered the same situation as
yourself, I would have assumed that off-airway I shouldn't use those
radials below 11,000 but that on the airway it had been surveyed and found
usable down to 4,500.
Of course, in this case the FDC notam changes that, but in other similar
cases I believe that my assumptions would be correct. Perhaps Geoff may
wish to comment on this.
>3. DUATS does not provide FDC NOTAM information.
Hate to disagree, but it does. In fact, I've had better luck with DUAT
that with FSS. A couple of weeks ago we were going to shoot an IFR
approach to Oxford/Waterbury in Connecticut.
I got a DUAT briefing which included an FDC notam to the effect that the
missed approach had been changed from hold at the LOM to hold at the VOR
(or was it the other way around?). Although I asked for "Class 1 & 2 & FDC
Notams", the briefer didn't give this change to me. When I asked him about
it, he then found the Notam. Which only says that FSS briefers are human,
but I've had this happen a few times now.
Also, FSS briefers are *very* bad about checking Class 2 Notams. In my
experience, when you ask for Class 1 & 2, they will only give you Class 1.
You can tell by the elapsed time that they have not checked Class 2, and
you have to forcefully ask them to check. Class 2 should probably be kept
in the computer. The briefers are reluctent to give you any information
that they can't punch up on the screen...
Paul Cantrell
uucp: p...@stardent.com