Metric Aircraft Bolt Source?
John A. Landry
Can anyone point me in the direction of a source for aircraft grade metric
bolts? I've searched all the normal mail order catalogs, and the only
metric bolts I can find are for propeller mounting.
Here' my problem... I'm installing a rotor blade prerotator system (for a
gyroplane) drive plate on a newer Rotax B gearbox. Two bolts are removed
from one side of the gearbox, the plate installed and then the bolts
replaced. This leaves the bolts slightly too short for my comfort. The
mounting plate is about 7mm thick.
Specifically I need the following two bolts...
1 each M8 x 135 and 1 ea M8 x 75
Thanks much,
John L.
---------------------------------
gyro...@earthlink.net
Libertarian, NRA-Life, WAC
PRA, EAA, Gyro N392JL
Commercial/Rotorcraft/Helicopter
http://home.usaa.net/~gyropilot/
"The road to tyranny, we must never
forget, begins with the destruction
of the truth."
William J. Clinton
10-15-95, speech at the Univ. of CT
Mark Smith
>
> Greetings,
>
> Can anyone point me in the direction of a source for aircraft grade metric
> bolts? I've searched all the normal mail order catalogs, and the only
> metric bolts I can find are for propeller mounting.
The bolts you are removing are NOT metric AN type bolts.
Go to as bolt store and get some longer ones,,,,,,,,metric
BTW, all AN is US thread standards, US Fine to be exact. There are no
coarde thread AN bolts, or metric size per se.
There are metric bolts just as good as the AN though and they would be
what I would use to replace the existing bolts.
--
Mark Smith mailto:tri...@freewwweb.com
Tri-State Kite Sales
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
Jeremy Harris
tensile). This isn't exactly a super strong material, piano wire is
something over 100 ton/sq.in. 8.8 metric bolts are about 40 ton steel I
think, I'm not sure about 10.8. The numbers refer to carbon content I
think, but I'm no metallurgist! The key to any aircraft material is the
inspection standard - AN hardware is expensive because someone is paid to
perform a very comprehensive inspection on each item. I would want to be
assured that any bolt I used on an aircraft was of an approved type, and
that somebody had inspected it!
Jeremy
Joe Hovel <j...@hovel.net.ru> wrote in message
news:yRu%4.14$DW3....@vic.nntp.telstra.net...
> I'm also looking for some info about Aviation standard metric bolts - or
> just about the standards.
> I've been looking all over the web and e-mailed severla maufacturers. I
keep
> getting answers like: "our bolts are aircraft grade 10.8 or 12.9 high
> tensile blah blah..." but thus far have not found anything about what
> "aircraft grade" actually is! At least with AN we KNOW what it stands
> for.....
> I can buy 10.8 and 12.9 bolts in the local hardware store - but I would
> hesitate a lot before I would fly with them! One manufacturer (I won't say
> who) even sent me the the chemical and tensile strength analysis (UTS 32.4
> to 36.28kgs/mm2) of their bolts, but that isn't what I'd call a "standard"
> or "grade".
> Does anyone KNOW about aviation standards for metric bolts?
>
> "John A. Landry" <gyro...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:8kgnjs8kd7oo4di83...@4ax.com...
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Can anyone point me in the direction of a source for aircraft grade
metric
> > bolts? I've searched all the normal mail order catalogs, and the only
> > metric bolts I can find are for propeller mounting.
> >
Joe Hovel
Joe Hovel
close tolreance as they are centreless ground after hardening etc... the
plating is of specific thickness etc. I still ahve no proper means of
identifying metric aircraft bolts....
Anyone know?
"Jeremy Harris @windsway.freeserve.co.uk>" <jsharris<nospam> wrote in
message news:8hmbdr$bj9$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> IIRC AN bolts are something like 56 ton steel (i.e. 56 ton/sq. in.
ultimate
> tensile). This isn't exactly a super strong material, piano wire is
> something over 100 ton/sq.in. 8.8 metric bolts are about 40 ton steel I
> think, I'm not sure about 10.8. The numbers refer to carbon content I
> think, but I'm no metallurgist! The key to any aircraft material is the
> inspection standard - AN hardware is expensive because someone is paid to
> perform a very comprehensive inspection on each item. I would want to be
> assured that any bolt I used on an aircraft was of an approved type, and
> that somebody had inspected it!
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> Joe Hovel <j...@hovel.net.ru> wrote in message
> news:yRu%4.14$DW3....@vic.nntp.telstra.net...
Mark Smith
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I still ahve no proper means of
> identifying metric aircraft bolts....
and still there is no such thing as 'aircraft AN metric bolts'
you are the designer of this partricular plane as far as the governemnt
is concerned and you are the one to choose an adequate bolt.
and BTW, just 'cause a bolt is AN or 'aircraft grade' doesn't
necessarily mean it is adequate,,,,
Joe Hovel
I've gone to the Thomas Register and had a look for aviation bolts - no
information without registration! and then it appears that you need to know
the name of a manufacturer....
What I was after is some way of IDENTIFYING aviation bolts and nuts - not
buying them. There are plenty of aircraft spares people here, but I have no
way of knowing what they sel me! With an AN bolt it's easy! With metric
bolts ist's not, and I'm not about to replace 10mm bolts with 3/8" AN bolts!
Even though I'd "feel" safer!
Also, I'm looking for info on STANDARDS and identification, NOT
metallurigcal information - that's easy as well. One aircraft dealer even
sent me the metallurgical and engineering data for their bolts, but the
manufacturer was the same as the one making the bolts in my car - and I
can't for the life of me tell the difference by looking at the bolts....
Anyone have any further knowledge?
Joe
"Mark Smith" <tri...@freewwweb.com> wrote in message
news:393FE8...@freewwweb.com...
972
where to buy products. I have had a lot of joy pre-internet with the
commercial sections of the major embassies here in Canberra, so I've
just rung the French section, hopefully they'll come up with something.
They are not aviation people so it could take a while.
972.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Joe Hovel
"972" <youngN...@rsc.anu.edu.au.invalid> wrote in message
news:3150710d...@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com...
Joe Hovel
news:drewjan.10...@execulink.com...
>
> >> but the
> >> manufacturer was the same as the one making the bolts in my car -
> >> and I
> >> can't for the life of me tell the difference by looking at the
> >> bolts....
>
What's the connection? If one of the - say universal joint - bolts failed, I
wouldn't even know (and I have found one missing once!). If the ONE bolt
holding the spar tube in place failed, I wouldn't be able to report the
result to you.... do you see the difference?
This discussion isn't about "should I trust hardware store boltsin my
plane?", not even "should I trust the manufacturere of my plane choosing the
right bolts?" - it's about "this is an aircraft quailty bolt, according to
this standard - and here is the name of the standard, and this is how you
tell it apart from other bolts" - very easy with AN hardware, thus far
impossible with metric aviation hardware.
It's even mor messy than that: in German (my mother tongue) the term
"Flugzeugschraube" (aircraft bolt) refers to double hexagon (12-cornered)
bolts and has nothing to do with strength or material specs at all!
I have now found an ISO standard ISO 5843-3 which probably covers aircraft
bolts - I'll try and get a look at it (without buying it).
Cheers,
Joe
Drew and Jan
Drew and Jan
>From: "Joe Hovel" <j...@hovel.net.ru>
>Subject: Re: Metric Aircraft Bolt Source?
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:03:44 +1000
>"Drew and Jan" <dre...@execulink.com> wrote in message
>news:drewjan.10...@execulink.com...
>>
>What's the connection? If one of the - say universal joint - bolts failed, I
>wouldn't even know (and I have found one missing once!). If the ONE bolt
>holding the spar tube in place failed, I wouldn't be able to report the
>result to you.... do you see the difference?
>This discussion isn't about "should I trust hardware store boltsin my
>plane?", not even "should I trust the manufacturere of my plane choosing the
>right bolts?" - it's about "this is an aircraft quailty bolt, according to
>this standard - and here is the name of the standard, and this is how you
>tell it apart from other bolts" - very easy with AN hardware, thus far
>impossible with metric aviation hardware.
>It's even mor messy than that: in German (my mother tongue) the term
>"Flugzeugschraube" (aircraft bolt) refers to double hexagon (12-cornered)
>bolts and has nothing to do with strength or material specs at all!
>I have now found an ISO standard ISO 5843-3 which probably covers aircraft
>bolts - I'll try and get a look at it (without buying it).
>Cheers,
>Joe
The connection is that if you buy bolts that are the correct tensile strength
from a known source and install them correctly they will not fail in flight.
Big brother can't do everything for you ;] Drew
Joe Hovel
strength
> from a known source and install them correctly they will not fail in
flight.
> Big brother can't do everything for you ;] Drew
>
me about your "know sources" for metric aviation bolts of the correct
tensile strength and we'll all be happy (after I install them correctly
according to the manufacturers' specifications..... :)
Mark Smith
Is there a spec for 'metric aviation' bolts or are you just continuing
to ignore good advice?
To the best of my knowledge, there is NOT !!
So give it up !!!!
Design YOUR plane your way, since you are the builder,,,,,,,,,,
Russell Millar
http://www.iso.ch/cate/4903001.html It was in a section for aircraft and
aerospace gear. Unfortunately they are trying to sell the standards so its not
available on line (at that site at least).
Cheers
Russell
Mark Smith
>
> Oh, come on, Mark....
> I'm not ignoring any good advice! I'm storing it all in my grey matter (and
> my "aviation" folder as well).
> Are you suggesting that there is NO standard for aviation bolts?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
No I am not suddesting there is 'NO STANDARD FOR AN BOLTS' just that
there is no standard for METRIC AN BOLTS'
you have conveniently changed the statement to just aviation bolts,
leave the metric crap in like you have done for ten posts and I will
still say I know of NO metric Bolts in any AN standard pertaining to
aircraft.
and YOU will still be the DESIGNER of the plane and responsible for ANY
AND ALL bolts used in the craft,
is this so hard to understand or are we playing games,,,
the last guy I 'played games' with got so mad he started his own trike
list !!
F.L. Whiteley
> Joe Hovel wrote:
> >
> > Oh, come on, Mark....
> > I'm not ignoring any good advice! I'm storing it all in my grey matter
(and
> > my "aviation" folder as well).
> > Are you suggesting that there is NO standard for aviation bolts?
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
> No I am not suddesting there is 'NO STANDARD FOR AN BOLTS' just that
> there is no standard for METRIC AN BOLTS'
>
> you have conveniently changed the statement to just aviation bolts,
> leave the metric crap in like you have done for ten posts and I will
> still say I know of NO metric Bolts in any AN standard pertaining to
> aircraft.
>
> and YOU will still be the DESIGNER of the plane and responsible for ANY
> AND ALL bolts used in the craft,
>
Until a few years ago, you wouldn't even find castellated nuts on primary
controls on some gliders. The color of the nylocks indicated the type of
nut to use. Blue nylocks are not permitted on control linkages. The LBA
provides guidance for gliders in Germany. Found the same under the BGA in
the UK. Occasionally, NPT and AN were specified for ancillary equipment if
it was imported.
F Whiteley
Drew and Jan
>From: "F.L. Whiteley" <gre...@greeleynet.com>
>Subject: Re: Metric Aircraft Bolt Source?
>If you examine sailplanes built in Germany, you will find no AN hardware.
>Until a few years ago, you wouldn't even find castellated nuts on primary
>controls on some gliders. The color of the nylocks indicated the type of
>nut to use. Blue nylocks are not permitted on control linkages. The LBA
>provides guidance for gliders in Germany. Found the same under the BGA in
>the UK. Occasionally, NPT and AN were specified for ancillary equipment if
>it was imported.
>F Whiteley
Isn't a nylock a nut?
drew
F.L. Whiteley
The German side may not even be in English. I'm a bit busy right now to
ferret out the requirements, but think it might be listed under JAR22
standards under OSTIV. It's been five years since I was over there.
Interestingly, the BGA uses AC43-13 as guidance for a lot of their
recommended repair methods. Perhaps this is because the BGA operates
outside of the CAA as a self-regulating body. An interesting model worthy
of emulation.
Frank
"Joe Hovel" <j...@hovel.net.ru> wrote in message
news:zjz35.12$me5...@vic.nntp.telstra.net...
> Thanks Frank,
> I will see what resources the LBA and GBA give me access to.
>
> "F.L. Whiteley" <gre...@greeleynet.com> wrote in message
> news:S2y35.144$G3.188...@news.frii.net...
> >
> > "Mark Smith" <tri...@freewwweb.com> wrote in message
> > news:394EA7...@freewwweb.com...
> > > Joe Hovel wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh, come on, Mark....
> > > > I'm not ignoring any good advice! I'm storing it all in my grey
matter
> > (and
> > > > my "aviation" folder as well).
> > > > Are you suggesting that there is NO standard for aviation bolts?
> > > ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> > >
> > > No I am not suddesting there is 'NO STANDARD FOR AN BOLTS' just that
> > > there is no standard for METRIC AN BOLTS'
> > >
> > > you have conveniently changed the statement to just aviation bolts,
> > > leave the metric crap in like you have done for ten posts and I will
> > > still say I know of NO metric Bolts in any AN standard pertaining to
> > > aircraft.
> > >
> > > and YOU will still be the DESIGNER of the plane and responsible for
ANY
> > > AND ALL bolts used in the craft,
> > >
Joe Hovel
I'm not ignoring any good advice! I'm storing it all in my grey matter (and
my "aviation" folder as well).
explain the difficulty I have finding any reference to it! Maybe an aircraft
designer simply selects the bolt strengths from a boltmaker's catalogue and
specifies that?
Bloody hell! I think I like the known rigours of testing of AN bolts better!
But you may be right..... perhaps I should invest in a BRS chute instead of
worrying about structural failures of the fastener related kind..... :)
Or I might avoid aircraft with metric bolts altogether in future....
Cheers,
Joe
"Mark Smith" <tri...@freewwweb.com> wrote in message
news:394BEC...@freewwweb.com...
> Joe Hovel wrote:
> >
> > "Drew and Jan" <dre...@execulink.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > The connection is that if you buy bolts that are the correct tensile
> > strength
> > > from a known source and install them correctly they will not fail in
> > flight.
> > > Big brother can't do everything for you ;] Drew
> > >
> > You got it in one! KNOWN SOURCE..... did you see the subject line? Now
tell
> > me about your "know sources" for metric aviation bolts of the correct
> > tensile strength and we'll all be happy (after I install them correctly
> > according to the manufacturers' specifications..... :)
>
>
> Is there a spec for 'metric aviation' bolts or are you just continuing
> to ignore good advice?
>
> To the best of my knowledge, there is NOT !!
>
> So give it up !!!!
>
> Design YOUR plane your way, since you are the builder,,,,,,,,,,
Joe Hovel
thank you very much! you led me to the right pages! I found
http://www.iso.ch/cate/4903020.html to contain a list of all the relevant
standards. I will e-mail my brother who works in DIN in Germany and see if
he can get to look at a few of the relevant documents and report his
summary.
I think we are on to something! Things are looking up.
All the best,
Joe
"Russell Millar" <mil...@taranaki.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:394C7B83...@taranaki.ac.nz...
> I have found a site that mentions an iso standard for aerospace metric
bolts.
> http://www.iso.ch/cate/4903001.html It was in a section for aircraft and
> aerospace gear. Unfortunately they are trying to sell the standards so
its not
> available on line (at that site at least).
>
> Cheers
> Russell
>
> Mark Smith wrote:
>
Joe Hovel
was of course ONLY talking about metric aviation bolts and I NEVER suggested
that there even might be an AN standard for metric aviation bolts... I
expect that there is an ISO standard for metric aviation bolts - and witht
he help of a more patient reader I found the ISO standards, but you have to
purchase them, they are not available to read freely....
This concludes my contributions to this discussion.
Joe
"Mark Smith" <tri...@freewwweb.com> wrote in message
news:394EA7...@freewwweb.com...
> Joe Hovel wrote:
> >
> > Oh, come on, Mark....
> > I'm not ignoring any good advice! I'm storing it all in my grey matter
(and
> > my "aviation" folder as well).
> > Are you suggesting that there is NO standard for aviation bolts?
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
> No I am not suddesting there is 'NO STANDARD FOR AN BOLTS' just that
> there is no standard for METRIC AN BOLTS'
>
> you have conveniently changed the statement to just aviation bolts,
> leave the metric crap in like you have done for ten posts and I will
> still say I know of NO metric Bolts in any AN standard pertaining to
> aircraft.
>
> and YOU will still be the DESIGNER of the plane and responsible for ANY
> AND ALL bolts used in the craft,
>
> is this so hard to understand or are we playing games,,,
>
> the last guy I 'played games' with got so mad he started his own trike
> list !!
Joe Hovel
I will see what resources the LBA and GBA give me access to.
"F.L. Whiteley" <gre...@greeleynet.com> wrote in message
news:S2y35.144$G3.188...@news.frii.net...
>
> "Mark Smith" <tri...@freewwweb.com> wrote in message
> news:394EA7...@freewwweb.com...
> > Joe Hovel wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, come on, Mark....
> > > I'm not ignoring any good advice! I'm storing it all in my grey matter
> (and
> > > my "aviation" folder as well).
> > > Are you suggesting that there is NO standard for aviation bolts?
> > ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> >
> > No I am not suddesting there is 'NO STANDARD FOR AN BOLTS' just that
> > there is no standard for METRIC AN BOLTS'
> >
> > you have conveniently changed the statement to just aviation bolts,
> > leave the metric crap in like you have done for ten posts and I will
> > still say I know of NO metric Bolts in any AN standard pertaining to
> > aircraft.
> >
> > and YOU will still be the DESIGNER of the plane and responsible for ANY
> > AND ALL bolts used in the craft,
> >
Joe Hovel
I read and speak German fluently. I'll look shortly.
"F.L. Whiteley" <gre...@greeleynet.com> wrote in message
news:wHA35.152$G3.188...@news.frii.net...
> I doubt if any of their maintenance and construction data is easily found.
> The German side may not even be in English. I'm a bit busy right now to
> ferret out the requirements, but think it might be listed under JAR22
> standards under OSTIV. It's been five years since I was over there.
>
> Interestingly, the BGA uses AC43-13 as guidance for a lot of their
> recommended repair methods. Perhaps this is because the BGA operates
> outside of the CAA as a self-regulating body. An interesting model worthy
> of emulation.
>
> Frank
>
> "Joe Hovel" <j...@hovel.net.ru> wrote in message
> news:zjz35.12$me5...@vic.nntp.telstra.net...
Mark Smith
>
> Not interested in playing games, Mark - this is just wasting time now..... I
> was of course ONLY talking about metric aviation bolts and I NEVER suggested
> that there even might be an AN standard for metric aviation bolts... I
> expect that there is an ISO standard for metric aviation bolts - and witht
> he help of a more patient reader I found the ISO standards, but you have to
> purchase them, they are not available to read freely....
> This concludes my contributions to this discussion.
> Joe
Well, I hope it also means you realize that any bolts used in something
that flies are aviation bolts !
And you as the builder will have your name on the data plate, or your
butt in the seat and that decisions you make will be yours and yours
alone.
No standard can design your plane for you.
And any so called standards that are not freely offerred will never be
the standards for many people, or generally accepted , ever. This has
been shown in the business world over and over.