Extra Fuel
BlueMax
strapped to your ultralight? I know you can only have a 5 gallon
supply, but extra fuel would permit me to refuel at an airstrip that
doesn't have fuel readily available. Not hooked up to the fuel line,
mind you, just available to land and re-fuel.
Gene6173
R. Pitcher
Well, I gotta disagree with Gene6173 on this one.
Part 103 says 5 gal capacity. This means you cannot even carry an EMPTY
gas can with you. That being said, I hope you carry enough fuel to
operate safely. Sometimes 5 gal just won't do the job.
Rick P.
Terry
Hey Max....
Does this mean you can carry an extra 40 lbs or so of gas
"strapped" to your Aerolight and still be under the 254 lbs as
required by UL reg part 103? Hmmmmm :)
Terry
Robert Provins
> Does this mean you can carry an extra 40 lbs or so of gas
> "strapped" to your Aerolight and still be under the 254 lbs as
> required by UL reg part 103? Hmmmmm :)
>
> Terry
or carry it in a backpack, temp. attached to the ul because you didn't
fit in the seat
wearing your backpack?
At an army surplus store I saw backpacks that could hold a 6 gallon fuel
container.
BlueMax
You know just a little tooooooo much about my actual situation.....That's
the problem when you're inner circle of buddies read your postings.....
what the rest of them don't know, won't hurt......right???? gulp !!!
Mark Smith
he is incorrect.
the FAA has made it perfectly clear that any fuel on the plane will
count toward the 5 gallon limit regardless of where it is or if it can
be piped into the carb.
tempoary pouches and backpack containers would fall under this
definition for sure.
empty containers that are upside down with no lid may be excluded !!
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
Robert Castleberry
plane. You could put in 13 oz of 2 cycle oil. Then you can fill it with
gas when you can, put it in the tank, recollapse it, put it on the plane.
You are keeping with the spirit of 103 which is to limit the flamable aboard
at any point in time.
Masqqqqqqq
that a fuel spill of 5 gallons or less will not involve them. Over 5 gallons
and they're there. I don't know if the EPA had that guidline when the FAA made
the rule limiting ultralights to 5 gallons. Might be related?
Gene6173
know better than to make a flat-out statement regarding any interpretation of
103. I did that recently when I asserted that it was legal to carry extra fuel
if it wasn't plumbed into the fuel supply system.
FAR 103 states that an ultralight vehicle is one that: Has a fuel capacity not
exceeding 5 US gallons. I take it to mean a fuel supply system must not have
more than a 5 gallon capacity. Two more reasons: 1. My instructor stated that
it was legal, (a little lame), and 2, I saw an inspector check the 2.5 gal fuel
can tied behind the seat of an MX, apparently to be sure it wasn't plumbed,
then continue on his way. That's good enough for me.
I may or not be correct, I don't know. I may never know unless an inspector
shows up to check my MXL. I don't think anyone else can state, with any degree
of certainty, that a different interpretation is correct. I suspect that
different inspectors interpret 103 in differing ways. Of course we could all
play it safe and never, never carry more that 5 gallons.
Gene
Daniel Grunloh
>he is incorrect.
>
>the FAA has made it perfectly clear that any fuel on the plane will
>count toward the 5 gallon limit regardless of where it is or if it can
>be piped into the carb.
>
>tempoary pouches and backpack containers would fall under this
>definition for sure.
>
>empty containers that are upside down with no lid may be excluded !!
I concur that is the interpetation given by FAA
personel. Extra fuel tanks above 5 gallons not legal.
What counts is how THEY interpet the rules.
Note they say no extra tanks allowed, BUT in the actual
rule it says USABLE Fuel. They do not include fuel
in the lines themselves or any fuel that cannot be used
in the fuel tank tank itself...... :-)
Go Figure! Fuel in the bottom of you connected tank
does NOT, count but fuel in an extra tank DOES.
:-)
The Feds have never been real good at writing rules.
--------------
Daniel Grunloh (gru...@uiuc.edu)
http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~grunloh
Robert Castleberry
radius in 103 like they did for the Recreational Pilot. If they wanted to
limit your flying distance, they would have said so.
Their intent in the limits of weight, speed, and fuel are contained in AC
103-7.
"Martha & Russ Oppenheim" <mopp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39B47C10...@ix.netcom.com...
> Of course, this is the reason for the fuel limit. But, with a little
> ingenuity (and a lot of landings to refuel), we can fly anywhere, right?
>
> Martha
>
> BlueMax wrote:
> > I think the whole point of the limit on fuel is to keep you relatively
close to
> > your home base- so they don't have ul's that fly 200 miles one way.
>
> --
> ----------------------
> Russ & Martha Oppenheim
> mopp...@ix.netcom.com
> ----------------------
DMH .
can fly a "normal" GA plane, some of which have quite a range,
and can haul alot of fuel. The Recreational Pilot is not required
to do radio work, learn flight following, etc.
So other than telling them to change the tanks in a GA plane
they state "range" limitation.
My 2 cents.
==========================================
Mark Smith
>
> They state the limit as a range for Recreational Pilots because they
> can fly a "normal" GA plane, some of which have quite a range,
> and can haul alot of fuel. The Recreational Pilot is not required
> to do radio work, learn flight following, etc.
>
> So other than telling them to change the tanks in a GA plane
> they state "range" limitation.
The five gallon limit was noted as a fire reducer, as if ten gallons of
fuel makes a hotter fire than five,,,,,,,
but when asked to give some examples of fires following ul crashes,
could give no examples.
They then decided it was a range limiting part of 103,,,
Michael Brewer
> involved in the sport, including persons and property on the surface and
> other users of the airspace.
BUT, if, because of being limited to five gallons, you have more landing and
take-off operations, aren't you putting people and property on the ground in
harm's way more than if you could just carry more fuel and land less (for
cross-country flying)? I'm not sure how I see that the fuel restriction
makes anything safer for anyone.
Brew
"Robert Castleberry" <rca...@urx.com> wrote in message
news:c5Zs5.41093$f65.1...@news-west.usenetserver.com...
> For the FAA's intent on the limits placed on the Ultralight Vehicle, read
> FAA AC 103-7.
>
> Here is part, but the entire Advisory Circular is good reading.
>
> Advisory Circular
> US.Department of Transportation
> Federal Aviation Administration
>
> Date: 1/30/84 AC No: AC 103-7 Initiated by: AFO-820 Change:
>
>
> Subject: THE ULTRALIGHT VEHICLE
>
>
> The rules in Part 103 are intended to assure the safety of those not
> involved in the sport, including persons and property on the surface and
> other users of the airspace.
>
>
>
>
>
---
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J. Dutch Revenboer
Only more costly and difficult. Geez. Some people just don't get it.
Dutch
robert worley
carried upsidedown, empty, and, open.
Semper Fidelis !!!
robert worley
safer to all concerned. Could you please try to find employment as the
"Ramrod" at FAA ?
Semper Fidelis !!!
Scrappman
could fly across the U.S. on a student ticket with the right endorsement, solo
that is,,is this true?
Scrappman
Ray Leonard
Just a WAG - apparently you have never read part 103, right ?
Ray
Robert Castleberry
anywhere during daylight.
Sec. 61.101 Recreational pilot privileges and limitations.
(a) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate may:
(1) Carry no more than one passenger; and
(2) Not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a
flight with a passenger, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil,
airport expenses, or aircraft rental fees.
(b) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate may act as pilot in
command of an aircraft on a flight that is within 50 nautical miles from the
departure airport, provided that person has:
(1) Received ground and flight training for takeoff, departure, arrival,
and landing procedures at the departure airport;
(2) Received ground and flight training for the area, terrain, and aids to
navigation that are in the vicinity of the departure airport;
(3) Been found proficient to operate the aircraft at the departure airport
and the area within 50 nautical miles from that airport; and
(4) Received from an authorized instructor a logbook endorsement, which is
carried in the person's possession in the aircraft, that permits flight
within 50 nautical miles from the departure airport.
(c) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate may act as pilot in
command of an aircraft on a flight that exceeds 50 nautical miles from the
departure airport, provided that person has:
(1) Received ground and flight training from an authorized instructor on
the cross-country training requirements of subpart E of this part that apply
to the aircraft rating held;
(2) Been found proficient in cross-country flying; and
(3) Received from an authorized instructor a logbook endorsement, which is
carried on the person's possession in the aircraft, that certifies the
person
has received and been found proficient in the cross-country training
requirements of subpart E of this part that apply to the aircraft rating
held.
(d) Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this section, a recreational
pilot may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft:
(1) That is certificated for more than four occupants, with more than one
powerplant, with a powerplant of more than 180 horsepower, or with
retractable landing gear.
(2) That is classified as a multiengine airplane, powered-lift, glider,
airship, or balloon;
(3) That is carrying a passenger or property for compensation or hire;
(4) For compensation or hire;
(5) In furtherance of a business;
(6) Between sunset and sunrise;
(7) In airspace in which communication with air traffic control is
required;
(8) At an altitude of more than 10,000 feet MSL or 2,000 feet AGL,
whichever is higher;
(9) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles;
(10) Without visual reference to the surface;
(11) On a flight outside the United States;
(12) To demonstrate that aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer;
(13) That is used in a passenger-carrying airlift and sponsored by a
charitable organization; and
(14) That is towing any object.
(e) A recreational pilot may not act as a pilot flight crewmember on any
aircraft for which more than one pilot is required by the type certificate
of
the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted, except
when:
(1) Receiving flight training from a person authorized to provide flight
training on board an airship; and
(2) No person other than a required flight crewmember is carried on the
aircraft.
(f) A person who holds a recreational pilot certificate, has logged fewer
than 400 flight hours, and has not logged pilot-in-command time in an
aircraft within the 180 days preceding the flight shall not act as pilot in
command of an aircraft until the pilot receives flight training and a
logbook
endorsement from an authorized instructor, and the instructor certifies that
the person is proficient to act as pilot in command of the aircraft. This
requirement can be met in combination with the requirements of Secs. 61.56
and 61.57 of this part, at the discretion of the authorized instructor.
(g) A recreational pilot certificate issued under this subpart carries the
notation, "Holder does not meet ICAO requirements."
(h) For the purpose of obtaining additional certificates or ratings while
under the supervision of an authorized instructor, a recreational pilot may
fly as the sole occupant of an aircraft:
(1) For which the pilot does not hold an appropriate category or class
rating;
(2) Within airspace that requires communication with air traffic control;
or
(3) Between sunset and sunrise, provided the flight or surface visibility
is at least 5 statute miles.
(i) In order to fly solo as provided in paragraph (h) of this section, the
recreational pilot must meet the appropriate aeronautical knowledge and
flight training requirements of Sec. 61.87 for that aircraft. When operating
an aircraft under the conditions specified in paragraph (h) of this section,
the recreational pilot shall carry the logbook that has been endorsed for
each flight by an authorized instructor who:
(1) Has given the recreational pilot training in the make and model of
aircraft in which the solo flight is to be made;
(2) Has found that the recreational pilot has met the applicable
requirements of Sec. 61.87; and
(3) Has found that the recreational pilot is competent to make solo flights
in accordance with the logbook endorsement.
"Scrappman" <rap...@microassist.com> wrote in message
news:39B5A196...@microassist.com...
Michael Brewer
Thanks,
Brew
"Robert Castleberry" <rca...@urx.com> wrote in message
news:b_jt5.58623$f65.1...@news-west.usenetserver.com...
Daniel Grunloh
gru...@uiuc.edu (Daniel Grunloh) wrote:
>>Note they say no extra tanks allowed, BUT in the actual
>>rule it says USABLE Fuel. They do not include fuel
>>in the lines themselves or any fuel that cannot be used
>>in the fuel tank tank itself...... :-)
>>
>>Go Figure! Fuel in the bottom of you connected tank
>>does NOT count, but fuel in an extra tank DOES.
Someone responded privately......
>I didn't understand what you meant by fuel in the bottom of your tank VS
>an extra tank. Could you elucidate ?
The ultralight regulations indicate that unusable fuel
in the bottom of the tank and in the lines and carb
do not count toward the five gallon limit.
I was ponting ou that the fuel in an extra tank NOT
connected to the engine DOES count toward the limit.
I guess it is usable. All you have to do is land and
pour it into the main tank. That portion of the main
tank that is unusable,.... is _always_ unusable.
I have been known to strap on an extra 2.5 gal myself
for an extra long flight. I No longer use the one
gallon milk jugs lashed onto landing gear with tie wraps.
:-)
Robert Castleberry
rest of Part 61.
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fars/far_idx.htm
"Michael Brewer" <bre...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:srbjtkr...@corp.supernews.com...
Vkuchera
this. If your not flying into a high traffic area with alot of GA aircraft,
wouldn't you feel a whole lot better carring that extra can and not being
stuck out in the middle of no where?????
"BlueMax" <blu...@voyager.net> wrote in message
news:39b15fd4$0$35379$2a0e...@news.tdin.com...
ggle...@minn.net
NO. See AC 103-7. This an Advisory Circular from FAA that clearly
defines each of the requirements of Part 103. This is available from
FAA, or can be purchased from USUA in a special book that is made up of
all FAA publications on the subject of ultralights.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
ggle...@minn.net
>
> Is there anything illegal about carrying extra gas in container(s)
> strapped to your ultralight? I know you can only have a 5 gallon
> supply, but extra fuel would permit me to refuel at an airstrip that
> doesn't have fuel readily available. Not hooked up to the fuel line,
> mind you, just available to land and re-fuel.
OK. Following is verbatim from AC 103-7.
19. MAXIMUM FUEL CAPACITY OF A POWERED ULTRALIGHT VEHICLE (underlined).
The maximum fuel capacity for a powered ultralight vehicle is 5 U.S.
gallons. Any powered ultralight with fuel tank(s) exceeding this
capacity is ineligible for operation as an ultralight vehicle.
a. Determination of Fuel Capacity. (underlined)
The total volume, including all available space for usable and
unusable fuel in the fuel tank or tanks on the vehicle is the total
fuel capacity. The fuel in the lines, pump, strainer, or carburetor
is not considered in the calculation of total volume.
b. Use of an Artificial Means to Control Capacity. (underlined)
(1) Tanks which have a permanent standpipe or venting arrangement
to control capacity are permitted, but may be subject to
demonstration of the capacity if there is any reason to doubt that
the arrangement is effective.
(2) A temporary, detachable, or voluntarily-observed method for
restricting fuel capacity, such as a "fill-to" line, is not
acceptable.
End of quote.
An empty or full tank, while not plumbed into fuel system, would fall
under "... usable or unusable fuel...".
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
Twb282
Michael Brewer
"Twb282" <twb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000907120445...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
> This horse just won't die!!!!
Ross Carlisle
Wonder what the FAA would have to say about a nuclear reactor flying
around....
Ross
Michael Brewer <bre...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:srfpp6...@corp.supernews.com...
Ross Carlisle
Mark Smith <ma...@trikite.com> wrote in message
news:39B7FC...@trikite.com...
> Ross Carlisle wrote:
> >
> > How about nuclear power. Refuel every 20 years...just like the Navy.
> > Wonder what the FAA would have to say about a nuclear reactor flying
> > around....
>
> If you get a containment AND the plane to weigh 254, you will have
> accomplished something rather important
>
> Should you ever accomplish such a thing, I'd bet the FAA could be
> induced/told/ordered to provide you with a personnal exemption to fly
> anything your heart desired, any weight, , speed, etc....
John A. Landry
Brewer" <bre...@charter.net> screamed:
>Maybe the answer is...............Solar-Powered Ultralights!
The simple answer is to get a pilot rating, register the aircraft with the
FAA, get an amateur-built experimental airworthiness certificate.... and
then strap on as much fuel as you want (or the aircraft will carry)!
That's what I did!
John L. with a 5 gallon main tank and 2 each 2.5 gallon aux. tanks.
---------------------------------
Libertarian, NRA-Life, WAC
PRA, EAA, Gyro N392JL
Commercial/Rotorcraft/Helicopter
http://home.usaa.net/~gyropilot/
"The road to tyranny, we must never
forget, begins with the destruction
of the truth."
William J. Clinton
10-15-95, speech at the Univ. of CT
Michael Brewer
In my experience, you will endure far more government meddling with your
"simple answer."
So, I suppose we should be thankful for our five gallons.
Besides, if we had solar-powered ultralights, the FAA would probably limit
the amount of time we could spend in the sun!
"John A. Landry" <gyroSPAM...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:223grscd08q5dr7ka...@4ax.com...
fli...@my-deja.com
Or the government would develop a use tax .Solar taxes.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mark Smith
>
> In article <srgbngs...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Michael Brewer" <bre...@charter.net> wrote:
> > Actually I already got my PPL...about 20 years ago.
> >
> > In my experience, you will endure far more government meddling with
> your
> > "simple answer."
> > So, I suppose we should be thankful for our five gallons.
> >
> > Besides, if we had solar-powered ultralights, the FAA would probably
> limit
> > the amount of time we could spend in the sun!
actually, government has already taxed the sun.
pool owners in a California city were amazed by the tax that the city
had placed on their roof top water heaters chosen to avoid the high cost
of natural gas
Q
Q
Mark A. Carter
in California and was addressed by 2 F.A.A. officials regarding his 10 gallon fuel
tank. He told them that the first 5 gallons was for fuel and the next 5 gallons
were for ballast. The two F.A.A. officials laughed and then started asking
questions regarding his Flightstar Pioneer and truly appeared interested in the
ultralight aviation. All in all a positive experience be all that were involved.
ggle...@minn.net
>
> No Mr. FAA man, that's not an extra fuel tank, it's a 6 inch diameter fuel line.
>
> Q
You got the answer.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
Ron
Michael Brewer <bre...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:srgbngs...@corp.supernews.com...
Jim Konst
wrote:
So, if you land out, and your main tank is not colored red, you are
s.o.l. if they won't fill it at the local gas station.
I would think a 2.5 gal can in your backpack would be useful, empty or
otherwise. And large diameter fuel lines routed lavishly.
Jim
michaelw...@gmail.com
aug...@gmail.com
Margaret&chris Kurtz
> I try not to comment unless I am reasonably sure of my answer, but I should
> know better than to make a flat-out statement regarding any interpretation of
> 103. I did that recently when I asserted that it was legal to carry extra fuel
> if it wasn't plumbed into the fuel supply system.
>
> FAR 103 states that an ultralight vehicle is one that: Has a fuel capacity not
> exceeding 5 US gallons. I take it to mean a fuel supply system must not have
> more than a 5 gallon capacity. Two more reasons: 1. My instructor stated that
> it was legal, (a little lame), and 2, I saw an inspector check the 2.5 gal fuel
> can tied behind the seat of an MX, apparently to be sure it wasn't plumbed,
> then continue on his way. That's good enough for me.
>
> I may or not be correct, I don't know. I may never know unless an inspector
> shows up to check my MXL. I don't think anyone else can state, with any degree
> of certainty, that a different interpretation is correct. I suspect that
> different inspectors interpret 103 in differing ways. Of course we could all
> play it safe and never, never carry more that 5 gallons.
>
> Gene