Jim Stephenson talking about Sport Pilot Blitz
gilan
Jim gave an informative presentation and answered a lot of
questions. I posted the audio from the presentation on the Flying
Gator's website.
--
Florida Flying Gators Fly-in
http://www.mitchellwing.com/flying_gators_annual_fly.htm
--
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/
Crusty O'l Fart
He sold the sport pilot as a good thing for ul pilots.....it's not. Bye
bye 2 place expemtion. Hello to Jim Stevenson's design, build and
certification business (up and going the second sp was a go. I think
we've been hoodwinked by Jim Stephenson, and I know that I am not alone.
I believed him when he told me (directly) that sp was going to be a
great thing for ul pilots. I was such a sucker to believe him.......
I will not renew my ASC membership or BFI. I am a CFI anyway, and I will
be swithcing to an EAA UFI. I still believe that they are looking out
for pilots (it is my opinion that Jim had his engineering buisness in
the sights the whole time).
I thought Mark Smith was being overly critical of "sprot pile it". Now I
see that he was right!
Again: SCREW JIM STEPHENSON!
Alan
How do you really feel? Don't hold back.
Mark Smith
>
> Screw Jim Stephenson!
> He sold the sport pilot as a good thing for ul pilots.....it's not. Bye
> bye 2 place expemtion. Hello to Jim Stevenson's design, build and
> certification business (up and going the second sp was a go. I think
> we've been hoodwinked by Jim Stephenson, and I know that I am not alone.
> I believed him when he told me (directly) that sp was going to be a
> great thing for ul pilots. I was such a sucker to believe him.......
> I will not renew my ASC membership or BFI. I am a CFI anyway, and I will
> be swithcing to an EAA UFI. I still believe that they are looking out
> for pilots (it is my opinion that Jim had his engineering buisness in
> the sights the whole time).
>
> I thought Mark Smith was being overly critical of "sprot pile it". Now I
> see that he was right!
>
> Again: SCREW JIM STEPHENSON!
I agree with most of what you say, not sure on the screwing part, I'd
sure be a bit choosier !
But I have been flying for many, many years, build planes complete, have
a better safety record than any other BFI I know anything about, my
students rent my planes, and without exception, don't bend them up,
I sell evryt few parts locally, mostly plugs and such, some upgrade kits
and such, but no massive amounts of rebuiuld crash type parts,,,, and i
can tell the difference between crash parts and upgrade stuff,
the FnAA took this all away when they did away with the BFI program,
USUA let them, making some good comments to the NPRM, but waaaay too
late to do any good,
FnAA said " FAA disagrees" to most of the comments, and they got more to
this NPRM than any other, ever,
I'm pissed,,,,,,,,,not that I will be out of business, but more that I
feel I owe training to the ul group,
as planes change hands, new planes get built, , etc, new ulers need
training available at reasonablbe rates,
I charged 55 an hour, and this is up time, not paperowrk and such,,,,,,
just makes me mad they saw fit to screw with a good program, at least
locally,
some say the abusees were rampant, and to this, Jim Stephenson is the
number one abuser of the BFI system, with ASC reps handing them out like
candy, with little training, etc, just money,
I sent lots of locals to another ASC ( I was USUA) AFI with the
suggestioin to call ahead and ask the specific question,,,,,,,,
" How much money should I bring to get my BFI this weekend ? "
seems like I heard 500 was about right,
one lap around the field, some coaching on the FOI test, etc,
I'd bet there are less than 10 percent of the BFI's from last year this
year
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
ET
There is NOTHING stopping you from training a UL'r in your eLSA. Just
because it has an N number on it, does not stop you from training a
single seat wannabe.
You are in the extreem minority in renting your aircraft to your
students. 4 UL places within 200 miles of me say "you have to have your
own aircraft to solo..."
And it's all the "pretend" BFI's in there "pretend" trainers (that were
too heavy even to meet the training exemption), that brought on the bad
news for UL'rs, not Jim S. I'm not saying they pretended to get the
proper training, just that many many BFI owning 2 seat plans never gave
a real lesson in there life. (and you, of course, know it)
ET
>
Mark Smith
you missed the point.
I build my own planes to train to save money,plus, get a safer,
stronber, more rigid plane that meets the needs of a rigorous training
routine better.
I can NO LONGER DO THAT !!
Should i repeat that or did you see the all caps this time around.
Also, I would be under the gun of the Feds, who know nothing about uls,
the type people who fly them, etc.
They don't want the onerous rules, Part 61, Part 91, etc which are
written for fast, heavy, large, did I mention fast airplanes. Note the
word ultralight was not used.
,,, and if youve been paying atention to sprot pile it, an instructor
must go out and buy a new plane, estimated to cost a 1000 dolars more by
Jim Stephenson, clueless, due to certification costs, but now estimated
to be closer to 40,000 with high estimates of 60,000
also, these planes won't be the open tube and fabric planes that are
better for MX traing, they will be enclosed GA look-a-likes with stall
speeds near the WOT speed of the typical MX.
get some answers to these questions,then respond,
I will never buy an assla or essla or whatever they name these huge
expensive airplanes
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
1-812-838-6351
http://www.trikite.com
mailto:ma...@trikite.com
ET
> you missed the point.
>
> I build my own planes to train to save money,plus, get a safer,
> stronber, more rigid plane that meets the needs of a rigorous training
> routine better.
>
> I can NO LONGER DO THAT !!
>
> Should i repeat that or did you see the all caps this time around.
>
> Also, I would be under the gun of the Feds, who know nothing about
> uls, the type people who fly them, etc.
>
Well,
Actually, you CAN....
At least for the next 5+ years (until the end of 2010) you CAN, and
assuming you've actually got a LEGAL trainer now (maybe THAT's the
problem eh?), you can just ignore the whole thing until the end of 2008.
If you can't adapt in 6 years, you probably weren't going to make it 6
years anyway.
If you put 1/4 if the energy into building your business around the new
rules that you've put into complaining about it on this ng and several
Yahoo groups (plus I dunno how many others) you'd probably have twice
the business you have now.
Did you ever think about how many people your whining has either turned
away from the sport of flying altogether, or from just you in
particular???? If I'm a sport pilot believer, I'm sure not going to
get my training from you.... If I believe everything "you" say, then I'm
going to never even start since all is lost and the sky is falling... so
either way, your pockets are empty of my potential instruction and
rental fees....
As for the things you don't like about it, again, to paraphrase Jim S.:
you fat ul'rs did it to yourselves...
-- ET >:-)
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams
sleepy6
ET...@notreal.com says...
I notice that the Stephenson supporter doesn't have the guts to post
under his real name. It wouldn't be the first time ole Jim has used a
false identity for his posts:)
It doesn't really matter who made the post. The biggest majority of
the UL community has got wise to Jim now. He can't post on any of the
most popular lists anymore without several of us asking him embarassing
questions that he refuses to answer:) And every time he refuses to
answer a few more of his ASC toadies lose faith in him.
>
>
Crusty O'l Fart
e sould talk, have you seen him lately.......Talk about FAT
ultralighters.........
ET
news:ZVGTd.76457$Th1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> I notice that the Stephenson supporter doesn't have the guts to post
> under his real name. It wouldn't be the first time ole Jim has used a
> false identity for his posts:)
>
> It doesn't really matter who made the post. The biggest majority of
> the UL community has got wise to Jim now. He can't post on any of the
> most popular lists anymore without several of us asking him
> embarassing questions that he refuses to answer:) And every time he
> refuses to answer a few more of his ASC toadies lose faith in him.
>
Not Jim, not even really a Jim S. supporter. I like the things he said
in his ultraflight radio address. If I was a BFI I'd likely not take
advantage of his "blitz", I think it's too expensive for me. But that
doesn't mean it's a bad thing for everyone.
You can do a google groups search, I've been posting for years, not
regularly, but enough so you know I'm not "Jim" hiding under another
name.
I've just seen Mark, and a few others like him post untruthes and half
truths about sport pilot. He finally gave up on the Yahoo sportpilot
group since his every whine was proven wrong.
Quite frankly, I just think anyone who posts under his real name etc, is
foolish for doing so. Too many crazys out there, WAY too many.
--
Mike Marron
[snip]
>Quite frankly, I just think anyone who posts under his real name etc, is
>foolish for doing so. Too many crazys out there, WAY too many.
Way too many anonymous/chickenous crazies out there like YOU.
-=Mike=-
ET
news:4qfu115dvbp59gdt9...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:49:29 GMT, sle...@att.net (sleepy6) wrote:
>:
>:
>:I notice that the Stephenson supporter doesn't have the guts to post
>:under his real name. It wouldn't be the first time ole Jim has used a
>:false identity for his posts:)
>:
>:It doesn't really matter who made the post. The biggest majority of
>:the UL community has got wise to Jim now. He can't post on any of the
>:most popular lists anymore without several of us asking him
>:embarassing questions that he refuses to answer:) And every time he
>:refuses to answer a few more of his ASC toadies lose faith in him.
>
> I didn't post the previous note, but I'll add my support.
>
>>As for the things you don't like about it, again, to paraphrase Jim
>>S.: you fat ul'rs did it to yourselves...
>
> The fat (and fast) UL's did it to themselves.
>
> When Titan Tornado is advertizing as a "legal 103" airplane, and their
> 2 place is supposed to be a UL trainer, what's the FAA supposed to do?
> It's the same with hired guns building ex/am - eventually, if we
> really get in their face, they'll come up with a way to enforce the
> regs.
>
>> I build my own planes to train to save money,plus, get a safer,
>> stronber, more rigid plane that meets the needs of a rigorous
>> training routine better.
>>
>> I can NO LONGER DO THAT !!
>
> Of course you can. Just register it as experimental amateur built.
> http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/exemptions/7162.pdf
>
> Richard Riley
>
Actually, he cannot train in the Ex-am built, except to train existing
pilots in type. However, it's very easy to registar an existing
"ultralight-like" aircraft as a granfathered eLSA that can be used for
training until the end of 2010.
--
ET
news:fmju11l8bco4dhch0...@4ax.com:
In this context I will agree with the anonymous/chickenous. But I
challenge you to prove any info I have posted in this thread is wrong.
(other than my lack of spelling skills)
Mike Marron
>In this context I will agree with the anonymous/chickenous. But I
>challenge you to prove any info I have posted in this thread is wrong.
>(other than my lack of spelling skills)
You've merely posted your opinions and haven't posted any
information, per se. Opinions are neither "wrong" or "right," so
in your case the major issue is that of credibility. The other readers
will take you more seriously and it is easier to build a genuine
reputation around a true identity. Anonymous postings are ignored
more readily than actual ones (for example, see: "Joe Torak").
The question is, what exactly are you afraid of???
-=Mike=-
sleepy6
ET...@notreal.com says...snip
>>
>> some say the abusees were rampant, and to this, Jim Stephenson is th
>e
>> number one abuser of the BFI system, with ASC reps handing them out
>> like candy, with little training, etc, just money,
>>
>> I sent lots of locals to another ASC ( I was USUA) AFI with the
>> suggestioin to call ahead and ask the specific question,,,,,,,,
>>
>> " How much money should I bring to get my BFI this weekend ? "
>>
>> seems like I heard 500 was about right,
>>
>> one lap around the field, some coaching on the FOI test, etc,
>>
>> I'd bet there are less than 10 percent of the BFI's from last year
>> this year
>>
>>
>
>And it's all the "pretend" BFI's in there "pretend" trainers (that wer
>e
>too heavy even to meet the training exemption), that brought on the ba
>d
>news for UL'rs, not Jim S. I'm not saying they pretended to get the
>proper training, just that many many BFI owning 2 seat plans never gav
>e
>a real lesson in there life. (and you, of course, know it)
>
>ET
And where do you think most of those "pretend" BFIs came from? Jim
Stephenson sold most of those exemptions through ASC. It's no big
secret and many others have posted their simular experiences. I
personally know of a case where a guy bought a BFI exemption with the
PPC he bought from a dealer. It was signed by Jim Stephenson of
course. And thats just part of the BS that ole JS pulls.
sleepy6
ET...@notreal.com says...
And for every rant Mark has made agianst SP I can show you a post full
of lies designed to promote SP from Jim Stephenson. It's not a matter
of pro sport or anti sport for me. It's a matter of a lying crook that
sold out the UL community in hopes of getting rich off SP.
You appear to be familar with the Sport Pilot group so you must have
seen enough of my posts there to know I'm telling it like it is here.
What name do you use on that list?
Mike Marron
>And where do you think most of those "pretend" BFIs came from? Jim
>Stephenson sold most of those exemptions through ASC. It's no big
>secret and many others have posted their simular experiences. I
>personally know of a case where a guy bought a BFI exemption with the
>PPC he bought from a dealer. It was signed by Jim Stephenson of
>course. And thats just part of the BS that ole JS pulls.
All true. Here's another example. Oshkosh 2002, an entire GROUP
of trikers (Don "Souuperman" Lindemann, Mike Hursh, Fred Lamkey,
Andrew Slack and a couple others) literally BUY their BFI's enmasse
via A$C one Saturday during the airshow. Unbelievable.
-=Mike=-
ET
Well,
Perhaps you coming to my house and threatening my property or family. I
have no idea who you are. I also have no idea if YOUR name is real or not.
Just because it "looks" like a real name, doesn't mean it is. If I post
something that offends you, what's to stop you from attempting to harm me.
(not "you" in particular, but...). I could decide to post with the name of
Mark Smith, or Mike Marron, or whoever
If you happen to piss off a wierdo, he could just go to google, figuire out
that you used to post from a florida ISP, use that info, plus the
likelyhood that your a pilot, to the pilot database and get your address on
1656 B*****se drive.
See? That's the kind of stuff I don't like. Call me paranoid, and you'd
be right.
Now you could figuire out approx. what town I'm posting from, but that's
about it (since I'm on a rolling IP address, it'd be hard for someone to
track me down without a court order, and hopefully I never do/say anything
to warrent that kind of attention)
On more controlled message boards I post as myself, but usenet?... NEVER!
My involvement with this whole thread started with Mark posting incorrect
information and my correcting his mis-information with fact. Yes I also
inserted my opinion of Mark's behavior.
BTW a google groups search for "Joe Torak" comes up empty except for your
posting.
ET
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> And where do you think most of those "pretend" BFIs came from? Jim
> Stephenson sold most of those exemptions through ASC. It's no big
> secret and many others have posted their simular experiences. I
> personally know of a case where a guy bought a BFI exemption with the
> PPC he bought from a dealer. It was signed by Jim Stephenson of
> course. And thats just part of the BS that ole JS pulls.
>
Heh, well I'll admit to not being interested in flying in general, and
UL's in particular long enough to know anything about Jim other than the
one Ultraflight radio address. I tried to Google his posts, but I guess
he uses a slightly different handle.
I also didn't see sleepy6 anywhere on the sport pilot yahoo list,
perhaps it's a different one.
As for my handle on yahoo, that would kind of defeat the purpose of
anonymity wouldn't it <grin> I don't post much anyway, I'm usually a
lurker.
I never intended to come out and say "jim is an angel" or even to really
defend him. Just to correct Mark's inacuracies about Sport Pilot.
Mike Marron
>>Mike Marron <pegas...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>The question is, what exactly are you afraid of???
>Well,
>Perhaps you coming to my house and threatening my property or family. I
>have no idea who you are. I also have no idea if YOUR name is real or not.
>Just because it "looks" like a real name, doesn't mean it is. If I post
>something that offends you, what's to stop you from attempting to harm me.
>(not "you" in particular, but...). I could decide to post with the name of
>Mark Smith, or Mike Marron, or whoever
>If you happen to piss off a wierdo, he could just go to google, figuire out
>that you used to post from a florida ISP, use that info, plus the
>likelyhood that your a pilot, to the pilot database and get your address on
>1656 B*****se drive.
>See? That's the kind of stuff I don't like. Call me paranoid, and you'd
>be right.
>Now you could figuire out approx. what town I'm posting from, but that's
>about it (since I'm on a rolling IP address, it'd be hard for someone to
>track me down without a court order, and hopefully I never do/say anything
>to warrent that kind of attention)
>On more controlled message boards I post as myself, but usenet?... NEVER!
>My involvement with this whole thread started with Mark posting incorrect
>information and my correcting his mis-information with fact. Yes I also
>inserted my opinion of Mark's behavior.
Sorry "ET" but I ain't buyin' none of it. Like 99.99999-percent of all
other chickenous/anonymous posters, the REAL reason you post
under a false identity is simply to hide while sniping from behind
a bogus name like "ET." Posting flames anonymously is nothing
but a form of cowardice.
>BTW a google groups search for "Joe Torak" comes up empty except for your
>posting.
Try again this time under "joetorak."
-=Mike=-
Mark Smith
> :under his real name. It wouldn't be the first time ole Jim has used a
> :false identity for his posts:)
> :
> :It doesn't really matter who made the post. The biggest majority of
> :the UL community has got wise to Jim now. He can't post on any of the
> :most popular lists anymore without several of us asking him embarassing
> :questions that he refuses to answer:) And every time he refuses to
> :answer a few more of his ASC toadies lose faith in him.
>
>
> >you fat ul'rs did it to yourselves...
>
>
> When Titan Tornado is advertizing as a "legal 103" airplane, and their
> 2 place is supposed to be a UL trainer, what's the FAA supposed to do?
> It's the same with hired guns building ex/am - eventually, if we
> really get in their face, they'll come up with a way to enforce the
> regs.
>
> > stronber, more rigid plane that meets the needs of a rigorous training
> > routine better.
> >
> > I can NO LONGER DO THAT !!
>
> http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/exemptions/7162.pdf
>
> Richard Riley
You can't train in experimental homebuilt, you knew this I'm sure
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
Mark Smith
>
>
> I've just seen Mark, and a few others like him post untruthes and half
> truths about sport pilot. He finally gave up on the Yahoo sportpilot
> group since his every whine was proven wrong.
>
> Quite frankly, I just think anyone who posts under his real name etc, is
> foolish for doing so. Too many crazys out there, WAY too many.
nobody ever refuted anything I said about sprot pile it,
I stated the planes would be expensive and they are, way more than
projected,
I stated that few would fly sprot planes unless they bought their own,
nobody ever refuted that statement, just said that they might buy one
with a partner, duh!
show me what I said that was refuted,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
you can't,
there are more anti sprot than not,
again, sprot pile it, written by those who don't fly much about planes
they don't fly at all
and i could personally care less about sprot,
my reason for thinking it SUCKS is that it halted the exemption, which I
train under,,,,,,,,
well, used to !
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
Mark Smith
>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> My involvement with this whole thread started with Mark posting incorrect
> information and my correcting his mis-information with fact. Yes I also
> inserted my opinion of Mark's behavior.
>
> BTW a google groups search for "Joe Torak" comes up empty except for your
> posting.
what di you refute, specifically,
BTW,
Mike and I have gone around a bit on several lists, i call him mikey to
get his goat, usually works no matter what I say,
but we are still buds face to face,,,,,,,,
met hium once, that was enough !
oops, there I go again,
Hi Mike
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
Mike Marron
>BTW,
>Mike and I have gone around a bit on several lists, i call him mikey to
>get his goat, usually works no matter what I say,
>but we are still buds face to face,,,,,,,,
>met hium once, that was enough !
>oops, there I go again,
>Hi Mike
Hi Mrak. I love you too,,,,,,
(can I have your bud light?)
;-)
-=Mike=-
ET
> ET wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've just seen Mark, and a few others like him post untruthes and
>> half truths about sport pilot. He finally gave up on the Yahoo
>> sportpilot group since his every whine was proven wrong.
>>
>> Quite frankly, I just think anyone who posts under his real name etc,
>> is foolish for doing so. Too many crazys out there, WAY too many.
>
> nobody ever refuted anything I said about sprot pile it,
>
> I stated the planes would be expensive and they are, way more than
> projected,
>
> I stated that few would fly sprot planes unless they bought their own,
> nobody ever refuted that statement, just said that they might buy one
> with a partner, duh!
>
> show me what I said that was refuted,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
> you can't,
>
> there are more anti sprot than not,
>
> again, sprot pile it, written by those who don't fly much about planes
> they don't fly at all
>
> and i could personally care less about sprot,
>
> my reason for thinking it SUCKS is that it halted the exemption, which
> I train under,,,,,,,,
>
> well, used to !
>
Why did you "used to" the exemption doesn't end until the end of 2008!
As for the rest: Well, let's see.
You said, in a nutshell, that you could no longer train UL'rs.
I said yes you can, get it converted to eLSA, of course, you've got till
the end of 2008 to do so, so it's really business as usual until then,
then you can use your newly registered eLSA till the end of 2010 for
training. From the time you get it registered as an eLSA until the end
of 2010, you can not only train potential UL'rs you can also train
people who want to learn to pilot real aircraft! (Oh, sorry I mean
those big heavy things that you don't want anything to do with).
You said: I missed the point, something about building etc.: I didn't
see a point to arguing about that, actually I agree with you that you
should be able to assemble something as simple as a Quick, but that's
not the rule, and I really can't see it as being a big deal.
But hey, if Quicksilver decides not to put together Consensus standards
SLSA's well, there is your opportunity eh? You can do a little
paperwork, assemble them, sell them as SLSA's with Quicksilver as your
materials supplier and life goes on. But I will bet you all the money
in my pocket Quicksilver will be producing SLSAs before the end of 2008,
regardless of what anyone at quicksilver may have told you. (OK there
is not very much money in my pocket, but it's the principle that counts
;-) )
As far as you last statement. There are already at least 2 companies
that I know of that are planing on having national centers to rent SLSA
Zodiac 601XLs; there is already a firm on the east coast offering SP
training and rental in several Ercoupes. (
<http://shoreline.americansportflying.com/index.html>
, and the consensus standards just got accepted by the FAA last week.
So your last statment is all wet.
Start being a part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Get
yourself 5 or 6 quicksilvers and get them regestered as grandfathered
eLSA. You can rent them out to Private pilots, or Sport Pilot students
as soon as they are inspected and converted. As a BFI transferring to
SPI you can convert as many as you want and train in them, and rent them
all out until the end of 2010. Tell me you can't make money on them in
almost 6 years! If you sell them, the grandfathering goes WITH THEM!
How great is that??
That's all really,
The rest of this thread has degenerated into people telling me that
unless I use my own name, I'll be ignored. Of course they haven't been
ignoring me have they ;-)
The only other reason I can think of that you are so bitter is that you
may have had a previous medical denied, but I can't find any post of
yours that actually says that.
ET
> Sorry "ET" but I ain't buyin' none of it. Like 99.99999-percent of all
> other chickenous/anonymous posters, the REAL reason you post
> under a false identity is simply to hide while sniping from behind
> a bogus name like "ET." Posting flames anonymously is nothing
> but a form of cowardice.
>
So,
Beechnut
Crusty O'l Fart
Czyb1
Don
Ejb
Flyingppg
Frank
Fredfighter
Garrison
Icrashrc
Jez
LS
Liteflyer1
Manitou
Numya
Petertk
RAM
Skot1963
Sleepy6
Slip'er
Vern
All of these people above who have posted here without their real names
in the last 2 months are not worth listening too??? They are all
cowards?? These are the 99.99999% ?
Me thinks not!
In fact approx 23% of the people who have posted to this group in the
last 2 months have chosen not to post with a name that looks like a real
name, and I didn't count the obvious spammers either.
I challenge you to show me where I have posted flames. I merely pointed
out where Mark was not accurately describing the situation, YOU then
proceeded to flame me for not posting under my "real name".
ET
news:GhHTd.35998$by5....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com:
> This is crap. How is a 2 place Quicksilver even close to being too
> heavy?
>
> e sould talk, have you seen him lately.......Talk about FAT
> ultralighters.........
Heh, >:-)
Yup,
Him and CJ Campbell too. But i LIKE CJ Campbell.
Now,
tell me how many of the legal weight exempted Quicksilvers have EVER
trained anyone! Yes, there are some, but I would bet at least 75-90% of
them are pretending to be trainers so they can be flown for recreation
either with, or without a passenger.
On my last vacation, I visited an ultralight field in Arizona; there
were 25 UL's on the field in gang type hangers. 20 of them were 2
seaters. ONE offered training. ONE! One of them had an old cement bag
strapped to the passenger seat as ballast. The bag had obviously not
been moved for a LOOOONNNG time.
Now I'm not saying that maybe 103 "shouldn't" be changed to allow this
to be legal, I'm just saying it's not, and that's part of why Sport
Pilot came down the way it did.
--
Mark Smith
Then we are both disappointed how sprot turned out, related to the BFI
thing.
My beef is with the Orgs who let it happen. they knew the costs would
literally soar when the feds got involved. Jim immediately turned that
problem into a business helping folks get through the mess. the Blitz
for the flyers and some other deal for the manufacturers,,,,,,
I didn't care much for someone getting their BFI just to haul their
friends or even just to fly a two seat legally.
But i never aided someone withing the USUS system to do so. always sent
them to an ASC AFI for the checkride.
I never saw this as s safety problem either. few accidents were due to
BFI's flying their friends outside the training system intended by the
exemption.
most tried to stay below the radar
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
Jerry Springer
>
> Actually, he cannot train in the Ex-am built, except to train existing
> pilots in type. However, it's very easy to registar an existing
> "ultralight-like" aircraft as a granfathered eLSA that can be used for
> training until the end of 2010.
>
>
Where does it say you can't train in a experimental amateur built?
Jerry Springer
Who says you can't? Show me the reg.
ET
news:xO-dnfUDKKE...@comcast.com:
Ok, a CFI or SPI cannot train in HIS experimental. You cannot rent one
either.
If you own one, or borrow one, etc then no problem you can get all your
training in it. I'll try to look it up, but I think it's in the
operating limitations of the aircraft itself. No rental allowed.
Her is the link to the eaa eplaination of there exemption to allow for
transition or currency training in experimentals:
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/pr/010706_faaexemption.html
I can't find in a quick search where the rule says you cannot. It's
really not the training itself, it's the rental. And a CFI cannot just
say, OK, I'll charge you $80/hr for my training time, but the airplane
is free....
Jerry Springer
> Jerry Springer <jsf...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:xO-dnfUDKKE...@comcast.com:
>
>
>>ET wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Actually, he cannot train in the Ex-am built, except to train
>>>existing pilots in type. However, it's very easy to registar an
>>>existing "ultralight-like" aircraft as a granfathered eLSA that can
>>>be used for training until the end of 2010.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Where does it say you can't train in a experimental amateur built?
>
>
>
> Ok, a CFI or SPI cannot train in HIS experimental. You cannot rent one
> either.
>
> If you own one, or borrow one, etc then no problem you can get all your
> training in it. I'll try to look it up, but I think it's in the
> operating limitations of the aircraft itself. No rental allowed.
>
> Her is the link to the eaa eplaination of there exemption to allow for
> transition or currency training in experimentals:
>
> http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/pr/010706_faaexemption.html
>
> I can't find in a quick search where the rule says you cannot. It's
> really not the training itself, it's the rental. And a CFI cannot just
> say, OK, I'll charge you $80/hr for my training time, but the airplane
> is free....
>
>
>
built, Yes you cannot rent them but you can train in one all you want.
If you are a CFI then you know that giving instruction is not a
commercial operation..
Peter Wendell
The relevant paragraph is that an experimental cannot be used to carry
persons for compensation or hire. That includes flight instruction.
There are two exceptions, that I know of, to this rule. 1. You can hire
a CFI to train you in your own experimental since the CFI will not be
operating the aircraft for compensation. You, as the owner will be
operating it. 2. The FAA routinely provides a training exemption to
experimental Gyroplanes since there are virtually no certified
gyroplanes available for training.
ET
Well, if your gonna call someone to task, at least read back in the
thread a little :-)
He was advising Mark, a BFI, that he could us an exp. am built as a SPI
(if hell froze over and Mark S decided to embrace Sport Pilot >:-) ) to
train in the course of his business.
And yes, giving instruction is not a comercial operation, but charging
for the time to use the plane is. You notice I sail "HE" cannot train
in his exp am built.... meaning Mark Smith. Sorry for the confusion.
here is the relevent FAR:
Sec. 91.319
Part 91 GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES
Subpart D--Special Flight Operations
Sec. 91.319
Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
(a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental
certificate-- (1) For other than the purpose for which the certificate
was issued; or (2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or
hire. ......
That brings up another question in the back of my mind. Arent there a
few airplane clubs out there that train and "rent" amature built exp.?
I expect that would work eh? It seems it would be cleanest if the CFI
was not really member of the club??
Mark Hickey
>Too many crazys out there, WAY too many.
"Out there"??? I think most of 'em (us?) are in HERE!
Mark "can't afford a pseudonym" Hickey
sleepy6
ET...@notreal.com says...
>
>sle...@att.net (sleepy6) wrote in news:x5JTd.76872$Th1.59353@bgtnsc04
>-
>news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>> And where do you think most of those "pretend" BFIs came from? Jim
>> Stephenson sold most of those exemptions through ASC. It's no big
>> secret and many others have posted their simular experiences. I
>> personally know of a case where a guy bought a BFI exemption with th
>e
>> PPC he bought from a dealer. It was signed by Jim Stephenson of
>> course. And thats just part of the BS that ole JS pulls.
>>
>
>Heh, well I'll admit to not being interested in flying in general, and
>
>UL's in particular long enough to know anything about Jim other than t
>he
>one Ultraflight radio address.
In other words you just accidently stumbled in here and posted on a
subject you don't know much about? Yeah right.
>I tried to Google his posts, but I gue
>ss
>he uses a slightly different handle.
Actually he uses at least 2 legitimate ones and at least one where he
got caught claiming to be someone else:)
>I also didn't see sleepy6 anywhere on the sport pilot yahoo list,
>perhaps it's a different one.
You obviously didn't look very hard:) Try the membership list or
search the archives.
>As for my handle on yahoo, that would kind of defeat the purpose of
>anonymity wouldn't it <grin> I don't post much anyway, I'm usually a
>lurker.
In other words ya ain't got the guts to speak up:)
>I never intended to come out and say "jim is an angel" or even to real
>ly
>defend him. Just to correct Mark's inacuracies about Sport Pilot.
So far, I haven't seen much of that. Mark may hate SP but the points
he mentions are usually true.
sleepy6
ET...@notreal.com says...
But how many of them were too cowardly to even include an email
address? Use the header on this post for example. That is the same
email address that I always use and my actual birth name is on top of
every email and Yahoo group posting. You are too cowardly to even
include a Yahoo email address.
>I challenge you to show me where I have posted flames. I merely point
>ed
>out where Mark was not accurately describing the situation,
No, You have voiced your opinion and ATTEMPTED to prove Mark wrong but
so far all you have done is sound like a rabid pro sport nut.
Mark Smith
>
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:41:35 -0600, Mark Smith <ma...@trikite.com>
> wrote:
>
> :You can't train in experimental homebuilt, you knew this I'm sure
>
> Sure you can. Go read the link, that's why I included it. You can't
> give students their primary training in one, you have to be a CFI, you
> have to be a member of EAA. You want to give students a multi engine
> or seaplane rating? Not a problem. You want to transition them into
> something like a Quicksilver, that flies much more on rudder than
> ailerons? Not a problem.
>
> Read this one:
> http://www.avweb.com/news/homeblts/182021-1.html
>
> Of course, if you're NOT a CFI and you want to train ab-initio
> students, then sadly in 5 years you won't be able to.
>
> Me, I think that's a small price to pay for 1) keeping the original
> 103 structure and 2) getting a whole new class of aircraft with
> achievable certification requirements and 3) getting a new class of
> pilot's privileges that you can self certify medicals for.
For the most part, private pilots think they already know how to fly
ultralights.
And for the most part, they have proven themselves wrong for over twenty
years.
A PPL isn't Gods gift to the world of flying, it is more paperwork than
flying. that's why they are called pilots not flyers !
And most of the folks who show up at my field to learn to fly uls don't
have a PPL so basic training is out. And you DID know that ! At least
from your rant it seems like you say that somehwre. With all the hoopla
you confused the issue from me using my plane to teach folks to fly.
I could continue to give thousands to an Org that screwed me, but i
choose to NOT do that. I could continue as a BFI for some few years. I
Choose to not do that.
I've taught my share of students as I felt I owed the sport the safety
afforded by having training available. the FnAA has seen fit to
dismantle this time tested and proven system overnight.
I really don't even refer to flying uls as a sport anymore due to the
use of the word sport. Just as Osh Kosh will always be called Osh Kosh
to me, and never aer venture, ever. Course i quit going there many years
ago after getting sick on the food, prices, lack of showers, etc.
I don't want to be a CFI, even if they drove to my house and gave me the
cert. I've seen how their system works, or doesn't as the case may be,
and don't want to be any part of it.
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
1-812-838-6351
http://www.trikite.com
mailto:ma...@trikite.com
Mike Marron
>Me, I think that's a small price to pay for 1) keeping the original
>103 structure and 2) getting a whole new class of aircraft with
>achievable certification requirements and 3) getting a new class of
>pilot's privileges that you can self certify medicals for.
You were doing fine up until (3) above. The sport pilot medical
is a classic "catch-22" that was the proverbial "last straw" for
legions of recreational pilots that were hitherto on the fence
regarding sport pilot.
The sport pilot medical thing simply defies logic. If Chuck
Yeager has been denied a medical in the past he is forbidden
to fly a sport plane. Yet, any sickly, half-dead schmuck off the
street who has never even applied for a medical CAN fly
a sport plane.
Frankly, that is insane.
-=Mike=-
UltraJohn
Talk about someone being stuck on themselves, and you think your Gods gift
to flying.
I very definely disagree with your assessment of PPL, Do you really think I
spent 60 hours flying in airplanes just riding around doing nothing?
It's about time you got a life! I'm sure you think since your so heavy into
UL's that you can just hop in a plane and fly it also.
Mark your posting this to RAH (along with RAU) the majority of the people on
this board are pilots flying airplanes. How bout giving a little respect
instead of demeaning others because of your loss of business!
John
ls
Not meaning to jump in, but I know both of these guys Mike and Mark, and
can tell you a little bit about what I know about em regarding this
stuff about whining about SP and so on.
I don't think there's anyone on this planet more familiar with UL's and
UL'ing than Mark Smith. You also won't find anyone who knows every nut
and bolt on any quicksilver a/c ever made better than he does and can
make a sail set _by hand_ for a 20yr old quicksilver MX Super 1000's of
miles away and have it fit on the rebuilt airframe to within 1/2 to 1/4"
all the way around the wing panels....
He's flown UL's and UL-type planes under probably every UL regulatory
apparatus that's ever existed and knows the ins and outs of that whole
mess better than I and most of us here ever will.
So, when Mark Smith talks about something like SP, you can pretty much
bank on the fact that there's going to be a lot of history and truth
behind it. My participation with the SP NPRM was my first, but Mark had
been through this kind of thing before and had a good idea of how it was
going to play out. Sure enough, what he's predicted about it is
basically what's come to pass - i'll simply refer the reader to the
archives of the newsgroup for that.
Now, as for Mike Marron, here's another guy with more letters after his
name that I can even pronounce - PP, commercial, Instrument, CFI, CFII,
CFI glider, and CFI who knows what else. MEI too probably. Oh and an A&P
to boot... If it's got a prop on it, he's probably flown it and/or
worked on it or taught in it. Probably has more time in actual IMC than
I have total hours in everything.....
So it's wise to not argue regs with MM. Or much else having to do with
flying either. You can be pretty sure that he's telling it like it is...
Anyway, point is, if you really want the real story, these are two of
the guys you go to to get it. When either one of these guys talks,
whether it's about SP or regs, I listen. I'm still here and flying too,
which to me says something about what I get from them.
Trust me, there're a lot of charlatans and idiots in this business and
these two guys are NOT among them. So, my advice is to listen and learn.....
my 02.
LS
AC fun racer 503.
ET
news:p10Ud.52082$cW2....@fe2.texas.rr.com:
Sport Pilot is new. NOT the NPRM, the final rule. You can't tell me
anyone is more an expert on it than I am just because they have been
flying ULs for years etc. I can read as well as the next guy, the
history is water under the bridge.
What bugs me most is his incessant whining!
I'll again bring up the medical issue which he has not yet responded
too. Mark, did you fail your last FAA medical? Is that why you're so
upset? If so, I understand your hostility as you have effectively been
put out of business (although the vast majority of people in that
situation could get one more special issuance with some time money and
effort) If not, please stop whining and either make lemonade or go find
something to do the WILL make you happy. Such bitterness is not
healthy.
Ask Mark Boyd and Chuck Scrivner about it, two rabid anti-sport pilot
zelots who have begun to see the light, or at least in Chuck's case,
have decided to try and make lemonaide.
Brad Blackburn
> something to do the WILL make you happy. Such bitterness is not
> healthy.
I've met Mark and would hardly call him a whiner.
Eccentric maybe,,, nothing wrong with that.
Our government could screw up a free lunch given the chance.
,,,,,,,and I hardly consider myself right wing. : )
Brad Blackburn
Mike Marron
>I'll again bring up the medical issue which he has not yet responded
>too. Mark, did you fail your last FAA medical? Is that why you're so
>upset? If so, I understand your hostility as you have effectively been
>put out of business (although the vast majority of people in that
>situation could get one more special issuance with some time money and
>effort) If not, please stop whining and either make lemonade or go find
>something to do the WILL make you happy. Such bitterness is not
>healthy.
Back off on the medical stuff, asshole. Here you are posting
anonymously while demanding that somebody else discuss
their personal medical issues. If Mark failed a medical it is HIS
decision whether or not he chooses to discuss it publically.
Sheesh. You anonymous cowards slay me!
-=Mike=-
Mark Smith
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> Sport Pilot is new. NOT the NPRM, the final rule. You can't tell me
> anyone is more an expert on it than I am just because they have been
> flying ULs for years etc. I can read as well as the next guy, the
> history is water under the bridge.
No sprot isn't new,
it started life as an attempt to get more weight for the so calle dfat
uls.
Fat uls started almost from the day the ink was dry on FAR 103. Some
factory kits wer too heavy even then. the FnAA estimated some small
percentage, but my guess is that most factopry folks didn't know what
ther final kits weighed when built anyway, nor did they care.
For over twenty years, we have flown heavier and hearvier planes, mostly
due to upgrades. the planes are not any larger, most actually smaller,
but dual ignition is in vogue for some people, as is steerable
nosehweels and brakes for better ground control.
Early uls were two axs, some with spoilers, and changes to ailerons and
three axis added some weight too.
But nobody cared,,,,,,,,,,, ul pilots had better/safer ground control,
bystanders, ie the public to the FnAA were safer too.
The FnAA did cater to a special interest group and exempt ballistic
chutes.
A group called ARAC started I'd guess 8 years ago to rewrite some rules
for these safer, stroger, more durable uls, taking into consideration
the good safety record that they had.
EAA highjacked the whole thing and turned it into a no medical, sprot
plane deally which totally lost the priginal idea of helping uls.
Most agree the NPRM and the still changing rule have not helped uls at
all.
Eliminatingthe BFI program, even with the non instrutctors factored in,
screwed the ul community out of any training. And for those who say
screw you all, screw YOU all !
And I will admit, I'm no expert even of the existing regs let alone the
ever changing sprot pile it rules.
The guys saying you can do basic traning in experimentals know even
less.
Flying an Ercoupe or a Taylorcraft with a 65 hp engine just is not the
same.
>
> What bugs me most is his incessant whining!
>
> I'll again bring up the medical issue which he has not yet responded
> too. Mark, did you fail your last FAA medical? Is that why you're so
> upset?
I have never taken nor do I ever plan to take an FAA medical.
My only association with the FnAA is a BGI.
If so, I understand your hostility as you have effectively been
> put out of business (although the vast majority of people in that
> situation could get one more special issuance with some time money and
> effort) If not, please stop whining and either make lemonade or go find
> something to do the WILL make you happy. Such bitterness is not
> healthy.
>
> Ask Mark Boyd and Chuck Scrivner about it, two rabid anti-sport pilot
> zelots who have begun to see the light, or at least in Chuck's case,
> have decided to try and make lemonaide.
My business will flourish for many years regardless of sprot. I make new
parts for quicksilvers, upgrades, sew sails, rebuild/repair engines,
train, mow grass at my airport, etc.
If they left the BFI program alone, I would have little or no comment to
sprot pile it.
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620
ET
>
> My business will flourish for many years regardless of sprot. I make
> new parts for quicksilvers, upgrades, sew sails, rebuild/repair
> engines, train, mow grass at my airport, etc.
>
> If they left the BFI program alone, I would have little or no comment
> to sprot pile it.
Didn't say it was new Mark, in fact I mentioned "not the nprm but..."
I'm glad your business will flourish and I wish you well. I guarantee
it will flourish even more if you change you attitude a bit.
Do you preach your anti sport theology to your customers?
ET
>
> Back off on the medical stuff, asshole. Here you are posting
> anonymously while demanding that somebody else discuss
> their personal medical issues. If Mark failed a medical it is HIS
> decision whether or not he chooses to discuss it publically.
>
> Sheesh. You anonymous cowards slay me!
>
> -=Mike=-
>
>
>
>
Get over it Mark, I've given you my reasons for posting without my real
name, if you don't like it that's your prerogative, but don't let it
ruin your day >:-).
Mark has now posted his lack of faa medical, and that's fine. I just
wanted him to address it one way or another (if he had said "that's none
of your business that would have satisfied me as well). It was the only
way I could justify in my mind him being so bitter about sport pilot.
Now my opinion is he is just one of those folks who thinks he should be
able to do what ever he wants without the gov't getting into his
business no matter what (effectively a libertarian I guess. Not that
there is anything wrong with that >:-) ). I now understand his
position, even though I don't agree with it, and think it will be to his
detriment.
Sorry to raise your blood pressure.
Mike Marron
>>Mike Marron <pegas...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>Back off on the medical stuff, asshole. Here you are posting
>>anonymously while demanding that somebody else discuss
>>their personal medical issues. If Mark failed a medical it is HIS
>>decision whether or not he chooses to discuss it publically.
>>Sheesh. You anonymous cowards slay me!
>>-=Mike=-
>Get over it Mark,
Huh? It's Mike. And "get over" what??
>I've given you my reasons for posting without my real
>name, if you don't like it that's your prerogative, but don't let it
>ruin your day >:-).
>Mark has now posted his lack of faa medical, and that's fine. I just
>wanted him to address it one way or another (if he had said "that's none
>of your business that would have satisfied me as well). It was the only
>way I could justify in my mind him being so bitter about sport pilot.
>Now my opinion is he is just one of those folks who thinks he should be
>able to do what ever he wants without the gov't getting into his
>business no matter what (effectively a libertarian I guess. Not that
>there is anything wrong with that >:-) ). I now understand his
>position, even though I don't agree with it, and think it will be to his
>detriment.
>Sorry to raise your blood pressure.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
-=Mike=-
Crusty O'l Fart
If you send your paypal e-mail, I'll send you a couple bucks so you can
try to buy a clue. You obviously don't have one......
BTW, I believe that SP will languish as did the recreational pilot
certificate.
ET
> ET, You miss the point over and over.
> If you send your paypal e-mail, I'll send you a couple bucks so you
> can try to buy a clue. You obviously don't have one......
>
> BTW, I believe that SP will languish as did the recreational pilot
> certificate.
>
>
>
>
HeHe! Your a funny guy. >:-)
SP already has 1000 times the support Rec ever did. Rec was a joke, SP
already has support nationwide. Talk to me a year from now when there
are 100-500 SP planes to rent nationwide. There are already at least 8
or 10 that I know of.
I realize that UL'rs who are only UL'rs because they were denied an Faa
medical are screwed, and I feel for them. The FAA said that they would
work on a "SP medical" and now they are backing off that. I think
that's BS, and again I feel for those folks. As Jim S. said, the
exemption had to be renewed every cycle, and it took action to be
renewed. All it took to ground every UL 2 seater, was inaction. With
SP those who choose to "upgrade" are in permenantly.
For new people coming into recreational aviation SP rules. Cheaper lic.
cheaper planes, and more importantly no chance of our next visit to the
FAA Doc resulting in us taking a bath on a fire sale of our beautiful
new airplane.
ET
>>ET <ET...@notreal.com> wrote:
>>>Mike Marron <pegas...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>>>Back off on the medical stuff, asshole. Here you are posting
>>>anonymously while demanding that somebody else discuss
>>>their personal medical issues. If Mark failed a medical it is HIS
>>>decision whether or not he chooses to discuss it publically.
>
>>>Sheesh. You anonymous cowards slay me!
>
>>>-=Mike=-
>
>>Get over it Mark,
>
> Huh? It's Mike. And "get over" what??
>
Sorry Mike, I mistyped.
Get over the anonymous posting name fixation. But I expect you already
knew that.
ET
news:eX1Ud.3465$5Z3....@fe07.lga:
So you don't see his views on SP as whinning?? What do you call it??
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
medical are screwed, and I feel for them.<
Actually, they're not. Part 103 is not being touched. Anyone can still fly
a legal part 103 ultralight without a medical, without a certificate of any
kind, and without instruction, if they wish.
Martha, BFI (ASC), PPL (ASEL)
"ET" <ET...@notreal.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9609E8ED5FA...@24.93.43.121...
Mark Smith
>
> Didn't say it was new Mark, in fact I mentioned "not the nprm but..."
>
> I'm glad your business will flourish and I wish you well. I guarantee
> it will flourish even more if you change you attitude a bit.
> Do you preach your anti sport theology to your customers?
Sure do, I'm not two faced and hypocritical.
I support my views with facts, costs of the change, and time off work to
attend the required schools.
Most see it for what it is, exspensive, complicated, unresolved,
unneeded.
It may be fine for the wanna be GA Lite that it turned into but surely
is severe overkill for those wanting to fly an MX type vehicle.
fredf...@spamcop.net
ET wrote:
> ...
> Frank
> Fredfighter
> Garrison
> ...
> Petertk
> ...
> Vern
>
> All of these people above who have posted here without their real
names
> in the last 2 months ...
Without commenting on whether or not your statment is correct,
perhaps you can tell us just how you determined that these are not
our real names? If someone had posted to UseNet 15 years ago
under the name "Wolf Blitzer" I probably would have assumed it
was an alias.
--
FF
ET
news:9mdUd.62349$911....@fe2.texas.rr.com:
>>I realize that UL'rs who are only UL'rs because they were denied an
>>Faa
> medical are screwed, and I feel for them.<
>
> Actually, they're not. Part 103 is not being touched. Anyone can
> still fly a legal part 103 ultralight without a medical, without a
> certificate of any kind, and without instruction, if they wish.
>
Your right, I was referring to the 2 place BFI's etc. I didn't make that
very clear.
So the guy who's really out of luck as of this point is a BFI who was
actually doing training, who has in the past failed his last FAA medical,
and has little hope of getting it back. He can't get his SPI, and he can't
use the training exemption after the end of 2010.
And, of course you're right the legal 103 single seat craft are unaffected,
and in fact will likely see more acceptance at more airports since his n-
numbered cousins must be allowed access.
ET
Bill Czygan
Bill Czygan
ls
The chances are good, however, that Mark Smith knows a lot more about
UL'ing than you do, even without knowing who you are ;).
That would include the history behind SP, which I for example only know
of through reading and through other people. Mark was one of the ones
who actually was flying during that time.
> What bugs me most is his incessant whining!
Calling any criticism "whining" seems to be the fashion these days, I
don't follow fashions that much so it doesn't move me a bit....
> I'll again bring up the medical issue which he has not yet responded
> too. Mark, did you fail your last FAA medical? Is that why you're so
> upset? If so, I understand your hostility as you have effectively been
> put out of business (although the vast majority of people in that
> situation could get one more special issuance with some time money and
> effort) If not, please stop whining and either make lemonade or go find
> something to do the WILL make you happy. Such bitterness is not
> healthy.
>
> Ask Mark Boyd and Chuck Scrivner about it, two rabid anti-sport pilot
> zelots who have begun to see the light, or at least in Chuck's case,
> have decided to try and make lemonaide.
The problems he's alluding to far predate the little medical "surprise"
that appeared in the final rule.
For sure, around here the primary participation in SP will be from
no-medical privates who already own aircraft that meet the SP
limitations. There are quite of them (us) around that intend to go that
route.
Very few, if any, will use SP for what it was intended for - starting a
light-sport plane business, becoming SPI's and training ultralighters
and sport pilots....
In particular, training for flying machines like quicksilvers will go on
pretty much as it has always gone on, in a 2-place quick, or it will
stop altogether.
Yeah yeah, that will change real soon now, blah blah... ;)..... But so
far it looks like the participation in that regard will be just about
nil around here.
gilan
lawsuit.
Any sick person ready to croak that still has a driver license could fly SP
but a PPL with some kind of medical technicality that prohibits them getting
certified can't. I'm not against the driver license medical but
discrimination problem really doesn't make sense.
"Mike Marron" wrote ...
ET
news:AlFXd.7860$603....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
> yes isn't that insane! Seems like major discrimination. A good case
> for a lawsuit.
> Any sick person ready to croak that still has a driver license could
> fly SP but a PPL with some kind of medical technicality that prohibits
> them getting certified can't. I'm not against the driver license
> medical but discrimination problem really doesn't make sense.
>
>
It's been said before, and I'll say it again. Basically some guttless
weenie decided he did not want to see a headline that said "pilot
previously denied medical crashes and kills wife and 6 ppl on ground"
Mike Marron
>The sport pilot medical thing simply defies logic. If Chuck
>Yeager has been denied a medical in the past he is forbidden
>to fly a sport plane. Yet, any sickly, half-dead schmuck off the
>street who has never even applied for a medical CAN fly
>a sport plane.
>Frankly, that is insane.
>>"gilan" <gi...@gate.net> responded:
>>yes isn't that insane! Seems like major discrimination. A good case
>>for a lawsuit.
>>Any sick person ready to croak that still has a driver license could
>>fly SP but a PPL with some kind of medical technicality that prohibits
>>them getting certified can't. I'm not against the driver license
>>medical but discrimination problem really doesn't make sense.
>ET <ET...@notreal.com> wrote:
>It's been said before, and I'll say it again. Basically some guttless
>weenie....
Pot. Kettle. Nobody cares what YOU said before ya' anonymous
coward "gutless weenie".
-=Mike=-
Jean-Paul Roy
out of your mouth !
Jean-Paul
"Mike Marron" <pegas...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:h23v21pi6k5m12fbk...@4ax.com...
Mike Marron
>Mike Moron you're a great entertainer. I just love seeing the shit coming
>out of your mouth !
Why thank you Tom-Dick-Harry-Jean-Paul-Roy (or whatever
the hell you wish to call yourself). Not only am I smarter than
you --- with half my brain tied behind my back -- I'm also blessed
with a superior sense of humor! :-)
-=Mike=-
ET
MIKE you made beer squirt out of my nose!
Gotta go get something to clean the keyboard... >:-)
Bob
No... you're just another asshole with a high opinion of himself. An opinion
not shared by anyone else except maybe your buddy the jackass... or was it
hyena?
Bob
Brad Blackburn
> Gotta go get something to clean the keyboard... >:-)
Whacking off reading Mikey's posts?
,,,or does ET stand for "Excellent Tosser"?
:)
Brad Roscoe Paul Jean Jethro IV
Mike Marron
Damn I'm good.
-=Mike=-
Jean-Paul Roy
else.
Love you
Jean-Paul-Roynews:rq7v21l3l93qbh9gq...@4ax.com...
Mike Marron
>Calling any criticism "whining" seems to be the fashion these days, I
>don't follow fashions that much so it doesn't move me a bit....
The difference between "whining" and "criticism" these days
depends on one's political beliefs. For example...
>>Wayne Bezner Kerr whined thusly:
>>The nation's collective intellect is being eroded at a terrible rate by
>>the barrage of "newspeak" and "doublethink" coming out of the
>>whitehouse and their sycophant parrots in the mainstream media.
>>I am sure George Orwell is spinning in his grave. We now have
>>a draft dodging son of the oil-belt as a self declared "War
>>President", a torturer in charge of the nation's laws, and a conniving
>>and chronically inept intelligence operator with a history of hiding
>>murderers, rapists and drug traffickers in charge of the nation's security.
>>God help us all.
>>I honestly believe that the ideals and principles for which so many
>>people died in the history of this nation have never, ever been so
>>threatened and at risk.
Not unlike tens of thousands of crybaby democrat poor losers,
obviously ol' Wayne Bezner Kerr still hasn't gotten over the fact
that Americans were wise enough to vote republican in the last two
consecutive U.S. presidential elections.
Amazing how Wayne Bezner Kerr, a bleeding heart liberal and
self-admitted "socialist" Canadian, has the audacity to even mention
the term "Vietnam draft dodger" when many of those cowards who
burned their draft cards fled to Bezner Kerr's native Canada...like
dogs running with their tails between their legs!
Wayne Bezner Kerr is an AirBorne trike dealer and his extreme
left-wing views are shared by all of his radical liberal cronies on
the trike email groups where they are free to expouse their left wing
bleeding heart socialist/communist views upon fellow listmembers.
(They've ganged up on their conservative fellow listmembers
and ran 'em all off! :-)
Left-wing, radical, whiny, groupthink by far dominates in the zany
ultralight culture, unlike GA culture which, thankfully; tends to lean
more towards the right.
-=Mike=-
Beechnut
> >ls lstavenha...@austin.rr.com wrote:
>
>
> Left-wing, radical, whiny, groupthink by far dominates in the zany
> ultralight culture, unlike GA culture which, thankfully; tends to lean
> more towards the right.
That is easily understood Mike. Churchill summed it up very well.
"If you are not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you are not a
Conservative by 40 you have no brain".
The GA crowd, because of cost, tend to be more comprised of doctors,
lawyers, engineers etc. You know people with brains. The UL crowd tends to
be....unemployed losers, and dreamers. The guys who think a trike is cool
because it looks simple enough for their simple mind to comprehend. Guys
with NO brains. In other, brains =GA=Conservative, No brains=UL'er= Lib.
Simple, and accurate.
Barry (The Laughing Hyena)
Mike Marron
>>"Mike Marron" <pegas...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>Left-wing, radical, whiny, groupthink by far dominates in the zany
>>ultralight culture, unlike GA culture which, thankfully; tends to lean
>>more towards the right.
>That is easily understood Mike. Churchill summed it up very well.
>"If you are not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you are not a
>Conservative by 40 you have no brain".
Love it! That's one of my all-time favorite Winston Churchill sayings.
>The GA crowd, because of cost, tend to be more comprised of doctors,
>lawyers, engineers etc. You know people with brains. The UL crowd tends to
>be....unemployed losers, and dreamers. The guys who think a trike is cool
>because it looks simple enough for their simple mind to comprehend. Guys
>with NO brains. In other, brains =GA=Conservative, No brains=UL'er= Lib.
>Simple, and accurate.
Agreed. However, there does exist a small contingent of conservatives
in ultralight aviation, but they seem to prefer more traditional
3-axis ultralights as opposed to trikes. Dating back to their "peace
love & joy" roots, the looney left-wing former hippies who used to fly
hanggliders while tripping out on psychedelic drugs and who are now
aging horticulturists, college faculty members and unemployed bums
have turned their attention to trikes.
And based on our experiences with these liberal wackos on the
various ultralight trike email groups, you can see where that got
us -- political correctness instead of speaking your mind, time-outs
instead of whipping the newbie's ass, and last but certainly not
least: gossiping!!
Due to the weather, ULers have an incredibly small window of flying
opportunities. So what's a poor ULer to do during those long, cold
winters when it's too cold, or too windy, or too "whatever" for them
to go up and buzz around in their little mopeds-of-the-sky? Sit around
and gossip, of course! Gossiping is strictly an ultralight and triker
phenomenon and trikers especially are a bunch of liberal wackos
who have idle hands and minds, over-active imaginations and busy
tongues.
-=Mike=-
Beechnut
"Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-pa...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Iz5Yd.26823$fW4.7...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> At least you can't say I'm an anonymous bastard like you tell everybody
> else.
> Love you
> Jean-Paul-Roy
Well, not anonymous perhaps, but as for the rest of it....
Barry (The Laughing Hyena)
Jean-Paul Roy
"Beechnut" <Beec...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:B4NZd.114111$FM3.32952@fed1read02...