This really sucks..
fly mx
do not have full details, but something about a problem with the wing and
crashed on take off.
Dave.
fly mx
something about the wing..
I guess he had no chute..
Maybe someone out there has more info..
So next question [ I am a newbe ], do many of the ULs have balistic chutes
or anything at all for emergencies like this..
Dave.
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:um8leuo...@corp.supernews.com...
Ken Kennedy
> do many of the ULs have balistic chutes
> or anything at all for emergencies like this..
Some do, most don't. Chutes cost a lot and decrease the aircraft
performance (weight). Most people rely on God or proper maintenance to
prevent wings falling off. Wings falling off, doesn't happen very often,
but this is one time I would really like to have a chute. In the
meantime, I don't have one.
I think that a lot of them are installed to keep spousal units happy.
kk
Tom Neumann
My 12 year old Daughter saw that on the news and a long conversation
followed about me flying my trike.
I didn't see all the details but I saw the registration number: C-IAAG
The Transport Canada Database doesn't seem to be working tonight so I
can't find the owner name or type of Ultralight.
It's always sad when someone dies but it seems to hit harder when it
is closer to home.
..Tom
fly mx
"Ken Kennedy" <ken.k...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3D64604D...@sympatico.ca...
> fly mx wrote:
>
> > do many of the ULs have balistic chutes
> > or anything at all for emergencies like this..
>
> Some do, most don't. Chutes cost a lot and decrease the aircraft
> performance (weight). Most people rely on God
Um ah god.., which one?, ahh. hmm ..wars , famine , pain ,suffering.. those
people seem to have selective memory syndrom..
Maybe someone should go wake that god up , he/she/it seems to have missed
the last couple of thousand years..
I told a christian freind of mine " I hope for your sake there is a god ,
and for mine there isn't "... :) .
or proper maintenance
That's more like it..
to
> prevent wings falling off. Wings falling off, doesn't happen very often,
> but this is one time I would really like to have a chute. In the
> meantime, I don't have one.
>
> I think that a lot of them are installed to keep spousal units happy.
I think the piece of mind would be a good thing, I wear full gear when I
ride/race mx [ including upper body armor ] , it is cumbesome and I would be
faster for sure without it, but without it I would not last long , any one
of my crashes over the last 2 years could have taken me out permenantly if I
did not have it on, just something we accept in the sport.
I think a chute is going on my expense list for this new hobby.
To bad this poor guy did not have one, he would possibly be on the list
right now telling us about his near miss.
Dave.
Martha & Russ Oppenheim
instructor, and I have one on both my single seat and my two seat ULs.
They may degrade the performance a bit, but they do give you a little
peace of mind. I know two guys whose lives were probably saved by
having chutes.
Martha
ican
a Pandora's box, are they as effective as we are led to believe. The
evidence that I have heard, being in no way vast, seems to indicate they are
less than effective in situations where UL's find themselves introuble.. ie
shortly after take-off, on approach, after major structural failure. The
cost here in Australia at least means the difference between flying and
financial restraint.
I have heard the "well, how much is your life worth" rhetoric. but I
also wonder if there is a case for "If I mortgage the house, will it save my
arse anyway".
What say ye?
DIY UL
Martha & Russ Oppenheim <moppe...@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3D647C96...@satx.rr.com...
Ken Kennedy
> I think the piece of mind would be a good thing, I wear full gear when I
> ride/race mx [ including upper body armor ] , it is cumbesome and I would be
> faster for sure without it, but without it I would not last long , any one
> of my crashes over the last 2 years could have taken me out permenantly if I
> did not have it on, just something we accept in the sport.
This subject is another where personal opinion and choice vary
considerably. This is the area of risk management. The likelihood and
consequence of a certain bad thing happening should determine our
reaction to it. For example, I may regret some day that I refuse to stay
indoors, just because there is a minuscule chance that I might catch
West Nile Virus, an even smaller chance that it will severely affect me,
and a much smaller chance it will kill me. On the other hand, you were
well advised to wear expensive protection in your motorbike racing days,
where the likelihood and severity of possible injury was high.
In the early days of ULs and hang gliding, parachutes made a lot of
sense. Inexperienced, untrained, reckless young guys were testing the
limits of often unengineered "Aviation Vehicles". Today, it is a lot
different. One look around the UPAC AGM showed a lot of conservative old
guys, flying well tested aircraft, well within their limits.
Conservative pilots, flying well tested aircraft, are extremely unlikely
to encounter a situation where a ballistic chute will increase their
chance of survival. However, if the presence of a chute will help you
enjoy our sport by giving you peace of mind, I highly recommend that you
install one. Better yet, install two, in case the first one misfires.
Even better yet, .........
Based on Tom Neumann's i.d. of C-IAAG, here is data from TC.
Mark C-IAAG Serial No 1081
Common Name Pterodactyl Model ASCENDER
kk
J.S.
"ican" <ic...@froggy.com.au> escribió en el mensaje
news:3d648...@mercury.planet.net.au...
> I understand the fact that they have saved lives, and at the risk of
opening
> a Pandora's box, are they as effective as we are led to believe. The
> evidence that I have heard, being in no way vast, seems to indicate they
are
> less than effective in situations where UL's find themselves introuble..
ie
> shortly after take-off, on approach, after major structural failure.
I can't agree more. I fly a CGS Hawk 'Plus' ultralight, and have a chute
installed. I plan do discard it at the next de-carb. Hope to sell it to
someone that has more faith in chutes than me. After the last trike accident
here in Spain -a fatal one, two weeks ago- I have enough: a very strong
turbulence damaged the trike's wing. The chute was fired, and didn't work.
It snarled in the prop and in the rests of the wing. Pilot and passenger
were killed instantly on ground impact.
My UL is a pusher, and the chute setup is like that often seen in trikes. By
discarding the chute, I'll lighten the plane by 15 kg. It's decided.
Regards
Javier
Jake Brodsky
>I understand the fact that they have saved lives, and at the risk of opening
>a Pandora's box, are they as effective as we are led to believe. The
>evidence that I have heard, being in no way vast, seems to indicate they are
>less than effective in situations where UL's find themselves introuble.. ie
>shortly after take-off, on approach, after major structural failure. The
>cost here in Australia at least means the difference between flying and
>financial restraint.
First, if anything goes wrong shortly after takeoff, you're screwed,
with or without the chute. I wouldn't use criteria like that to
decide whether I want a rescue chute on the aircraft.
These types of chutes are also available for a few GA aircraft. I've
always been queasy about them. If you have a crash landing, and that
chute wasn't deployed for whatever reason, it becomes an undetonated
bomb instead of a rescue device. This is particularly an issue for
those attempting rescue of the pilot and who may not be aware of the
undeployed recovery chute.
This was actually the case recently in the first recorded case of
attempted rescue chute deployment with a Cirrus. The pilot had engine
failure over territory that he deemed too hostile to attempt an
emergency landing. The pilot tried like hell to pull the rip cord and
discovered that it required too much force to pull. Now the crash
landing he faced was made worse because the chute rip-cord was
partially pulled. IIRC, the chute did deploy once they hit the
ground. The last news I'm aware of on this accident was that the NTSB
was still investigating.
On the other hand, I can envision several scenarios where a chute
would be a solid benefit: Structural failure is one such situation.
Losing the engine over heavily forested terrain would be another.
However, those situations are hardly common events. In most cases
everyone (both on the ground and in the air) would be better served if
the pilot made a forced landing while the aircraft is still
controllable.
I'd think carefully about the terrain typically being overflown, the
aircraft design, and the sort of maintenance being done before
considering a recovery chute. I think there are a few situations
where one is warranted, but there aren't many.
Jake Brodsky, mailto:fru...@erols.com
"Nearly fifty percent of all graduates came from
the bottom half of the class."
AL Mills
knocking God. He didn't do all the terrible things you mentioned and He was
kind enough to let the idiots who did make their own choices. Including
aircraft maintenance and inspection choices. Let's talk about Ultralights.
AL
fly mx
A 59-year-old Mississauga man has died after the ultralight aircraft he was
flying crashed in an Oakville residential neighbourhood.
Witnesses say the aircraft's wings appeared to break, sending it plummeting
approximately 1,000 feet into the back yard of a house near Neyagawa
Boulevard and Upper Middle Road.
No one on the ground was injured.
The pilot was airlifted to Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto, where he died.
His name has not been released as an investigation is continuing.
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:um8mu93...@corp.supernews.com...
fly mx
be proven..
I would appreciate you not having a god for me to knock , so were even!.
but that aside, the reference was completely in the posted subject matter,
Ken mentioned people relying on gods to keep them safe,""Most people rely on
God or proper maintenance to prevent wings falling off. "" , I and anyone
in there right logical mind will know that relying on a god is not going to
keep your wings on , unless you think your god is playing favourites with
you and screwing everyone else that does crash .
The point was more clear in the second sentence, "" or proper maintenance
...That's more like it..""
You may want to not snip that stuff out next time.
I am sure your god can stick up for his/her/its self without you .
More on subject!? ...Ultralights... oh ya, I sure liked that spitfire, very
impressive, getting rid of garage filling toys [ except the mx race bike of
course ], making room for new toy... hmmmm I sure liked that spit fire....
Dave.
"AL Mills" <alm...@crownstopspam.net> wrote in message
news:4DC85B4ECB11ED73.2A79C1C8...@lp.airnews.net...
AL Mills
"fly mx"
I have been in this NG for several years and never before have I had to
sit through insults like yours. Anyone in their right mind, truth be told,
knows that they are on their way to eternity in a lake of fire unless the
accept the gift of salvation through Christ. This has been proven many times
but the witnesses don't have the luxury of returning to give the evidence.
This is what I know to be true, and if you are not intentionally insulting
and belittling me, considering what you've said so far, the only decent
thing to do would be to drop the issue.
I do not come to this NG to offend anyone over their world-view, but,
neither should I have to listen to rants about someone else's world-view. An
occasional reference to a world-view will not draw a response related to
world view, except the one from you. It is you, alone, MX, who is trampling
on my world-view. The purpose of this post is to again ask you to lay off. I
will entertain any opinion you may have on ultralights with complete
equanimity, I will not comment on taglines praising various deities,
hedonism or whatever. If you're not here to antagonize, then don't. It's
that simple.
AL Mills
Glen Weldon
was completely uncalled for. Your rant on top of your initial rant
definately stepped on the beliefs of Christians. Mr. Mills didn't stomp on
your beliefs and tell you that your beliefs offend him. You started and
continued this off-topic discussion. Please stop it now.
Glen
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:umbadff...@corp.supernews.com...
Lee Willcox
Clues for sale, $10.00 a dozen.
"Glen Weldon" <bo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ak5kih$1gbfgu$1...@ID-142850.news.dfncis.de...
Lou Hinshaw
>I understand the fact that they have saved lives, and at the risk of opening
>a Pandora's box, are they as effective as we are led to believe. The
>evidence that I have heard, being in no way vast, seems to indicate they are
>less than effective in situations where UL's find themselves introuble.. ie
>shortly after take-off, on approach, after major structural failure. The
>cost here in Australia at least means the difference between flying and
>financial restraint.
> I have heard the "well, how much is your life worth" rhetoric. but I
>also wonder if there is a case for "If I mortgage the house, will it save my
>arse anyway".
>What say ye?
I have one. It is on the top shelf in the little shed.
I felt it might contrib to a takepff problem.
The skin is rotten now, so it is moot.
lb
Curbut
question or offered comment. Likewise, I have read the many threads re: BRS
chutes, pros and con.
Chutes may or may not work as planned when deployed but they offer a final last
ditch effort to save your skin should the need arise. Even a malfunctioning
chute can save you. I personally know (not a friend of a friend who told his
brother, etc.) a pilot who owes his life to BRS. He flew his Titan thru power
lines at approx 60 feet AGL. One line broke and landed in his lap, the other
slid over the top of the pilot enclosure and took out the controlls at the
tail. With no effective elevator controll and headed into the ground at a
fairly significant angle and at over 70 mph, he pulled the chute. The chute
deployed and the harness partially wrapped in the prop. No time to kill the
engine. The arrangement acted as a drag chute and he hit the ground at what he
estimated to be approx 30 mph. Result? Broken back, extensive surgery and
some permanent disability but he is alive and he can walk.
My point? The chute was deployed way below recommended altitude, way over
recommended deployment speed and it wrapped in the prop but it still worked
well enough to keep him alive. There is little doubt he would have been killed
in the crash without it.
The decision to purchase a BRS is individual to all. If you have one and are
called upon to use it, It might work perfectly, it might not work at all or it
might just work enough to keep you alive. When I had my Hawk, I had a BRS
installed. In the event of an incident beyond my controll, I could not
tolerate the possibilty that my final thoughts would be regretting to spend an
additional two grand.
dale
engine seize once and never even considered pulling the chute, even though I
had to land in small trees (15-20' high).
Dale
AL Mills
"lb"
> Al I agree 100%
>
Thanx...
AL
Frank
Lee Willcox <leewi...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Krt99.54587$aA.11958@sccrnsc02...
Martha & Russ Oppenheim
opposite situations. One guy had a wing collapse at about 800 feet. No
doubt the chute saved his life. The other guy made a risky takeoff
(downwind, no good place to land, not at full throttle, for some
reason), stalled, naturally, and popped the chute at about 200 feet. It
saved his hide too.
J.S.
mentioning that those structural catastrophes are growing rarer by the day.
You can always have a birdstrike, too. Risk is ever-present, and the
decision of chute or no chute is one of risk management, a personal
decision. The case of the downwind takeoff could have been very different
without the 15 or 20 kg that a chute weighs.
What I regret is that, where I fly, in Madrid-Spain, I perceive a strong
commercial interest in favor of the chute. To sell more of them, is all that
seems to matter. Money, not safety.
Regards
Javier
"Martha & Russ Oppenheim" <moppe...@satx.rr.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:3D6722FB...@satx.rr.com...
fly mx
>
> "fly mx"
>
> I have been in this NG for several years and never before have I had
to
> sit through insults like yours.
view that does not agree with yours.
Anyone in their right mind, truth be told,
> knows that they are on their way to eternity in a lake of fire unless the
> accept the gift of salvation through Christ.This has been proven many
times
Ok, that's just nuts, and you are scaring the children , are you happy now..
> but the witnesses don't have the luxury of returning to give the evidence.
> This is what I know to be true, and if you are not intentionally insulting
> and belittling me, considering what you've said so far, the only decent
> thing to do would be to drop the issue.
For one thing I do not know you, therefore my first posted statement was
not directed personally to you, second, if you did not post to it , it would
have been dropped, YOU reacted and made a statement to my post that was "on
topic of Kens previous post", unless you are trying to sensor peoples free
speech , ya that's the typical christian thing to do for sure.
Why is it people like you feel that no one else can have an opinion or view,
it's all about you and "your" god isn't it ..
You can preach and want respect for the fire and brimstone crap and expect
yourself to not be considered a hypocrite when not tollerant of anyone elses
view.
This is one of the reasons for the term " hypocristian " , maybe
dictochristian would be better, you people like to dictate your version of
the " truth " but try to crush any one elses .
If you did not want a discussion , you obviously should not respond or offer
opinions/things to discuss.
> I do not come to this NG to offend anyone over their world-view, but,
> neither should I have to listen to rants about someone else's world-view.
You mean world views like ""Anyone in their right mind, truth be told, knows
that they are on their way to eternity in a lake of fire unless the accept
the gift of salvation through Christ"" , ... try practicing what you preach.
That is offencive..
An
> occasional reference to a world-view will not draw a response related to
> world view, except the one from you.
whre did you carve that is stone, I did not get your rule book.
It is you, alone, MX, who is trampling
> on my world-view.
First off , it is Dave , I do sign my name on my posts, you need a thicker
skin or be a little more sure of your beliefs, there are hundreds of
millions of people that do not believe what you do, how do you sleep at
night knowing that..
If you love the color red and I hate that color, what do you care ... do you
need to tell me you are offended by this,believe me , I am more offended in
your god than you are in me not believing in it, but do you care.. get a
grip.
The purpose of this post is to again ask you to lay off. I
> will entertain any opinion you may have on ultralights with complete
> equanimity, I will not comment on taglines
Then why did you in the first place..
The true purpose was to defend your beliefs " then " ask me to lay off on
apposing opinion to yours..at least be honest about it.
praising various deities,
> hedonism or whatever. If you're not here to antagonize, then don't. It's
> that simple.
Not sure where you get the praising of that other stuff, more like knocking
a [ dangerous ] belief that a god will save someone from a faulty aircraft,
that's just to silly, and arrogant on the part of anyone that believes that
, I gave the reasons why I feel this way.
My comments were " very slightly" tongue in cheek but there really are
incredibly gullable people out there that believe that crap, so it really is
dangerous, I know someone right now that has cancer, she is very religious,
she is not taking any humanly measures to try to fight it because she is "
leaving it in gods hands " , she has been told because of this she will die,
because of nut jobs preaching this crap she will do nothing and die leaving
her children and grand children behind .
You can not begin to comprehend how offended I am every time I hear the term
" leaving it in gods hands".
If you truly want this dropped, then drop it , do not respond.
If you want to discuss your plane or plane related topics , please do, I am
always willing to listen to others ,that way maybe I can learn something, as
I have said , I love that scale spitfire.
If you want to crush "others" free speech, I can't help you there.
In other words if you are intollerant of others views, you'd best not talk
to me, I am honest in mine and the reasons for them.
Dave.
>
> AL Mills
>
>
fly mx
"Glen Weldon" <bo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ak5kih$1gbfgu$1...@ID-142850.news.dfncis.de...
"GOD"
> was completely uncalled for.
hell on the river o fire is not a small comment on god.
It was on topic, please re-read before you reply.
Your rant on top of your initial rant
> definately stepped on the beliefs of Christians.
The existance of relgions steps on my beliefs, so what is your point.
If yours or anyone elses religion can not stand on its own with critisizm
then it can not be all that good.
Mr. Mills didn't stomp on
> your beliefs and tell you that your beliefs offend him.
Well actually the fire and brimstone stuff was just that ..offensive, not
because I do not believe in that crap but because the way it is used in
scaring/forcing children into believing in that god.
And chances are my beliefs do offend him as most likely they offend you as
well.
The first post was not a rant , it was a sarcastic comment on the sillyness
of the belief that a god will save you from a bad air craft.
Do you not agree..
The second post WAS a rant..
You started and
> continued this off-topic discussion.
Maybe you did not notice the subject line advising of the post going off
topic ,posting an off topic subject line is the accepted neticet thing to do
in this case.
Continuing it on the other hand was not me , that would be YOU reponding,
A.M responding and any others that may have something to say.
I continued responding to a post made directly to me on the subject, like
this one, if you or anyone else do not want to discuss this subject the
intelligent thing to do would be do not offer an opinion and keeping it
going.
Offering an opinion is an open invitation to a discussion, even if you do
put " stop it now " at the end.
If you do not want to discuss this , do not post to/about it in the first
place.
Dave.
Please stop it now.
>
> Glen
>
>snipped below...
J.S.
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:umecjsa...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "AL Mills" <alm...@crownstopspam.net> wrote in message
> news:90B766B67A9226DA.092628EE...@lp.airnews.net...
> >
> > "fly mx"
> >
> That's a load , you are not insulted , you are threatened by anyone elses
> (...)
> > (...)
>
> Not sure where you get the praising of that other stuff, more like
knocking
> a [ dangerous ] belief that a god will save someone from a faulty
aircraft,
> that's just to silly,
Don't dismiss that so lightly, Dave. I myself, coming from a christian
family and nominally christian, but atheistic in my worldview, have felt
saved from many a danger -and more than once-. From serious danger in
ultralights, in rivers, at sea, in a park, in the street... Could be a
coincidence, yes, but I feel that existence itself is a mystery, and life,
the awareness of life and existence, is probably the key one. In a universe
where the answers to that mystery are unreadable, why dismiss a *real*
intervention?
Who knows?
Regards
Javier
> (...)
>
> Dave.
>
> >
> > AL Mills
> >
> >
>
>
Quill
>
> "fly mx"
>
> I have been in this NG for several years and never before have I had
to
> sit through insults like yours. Anyone in their right mind, truth be told,
> knows that they are on their way to eternity in a lake of fire unless the
> accept the gift of salvation through Christ.
Wrong! You are NOT in your right mind if you are really putting your life
in the "hands" of an imaginary friend. There is absolutely no evidence that
any of these various gods exist, except in the feeble minds of mystics.
Quill
"J.S." <j.su...@bitmailer.net> wrote in message
news:ak7fc3$1ftsb1$1...@ID-90320.news.dfncis.de...
for
those who claim that there is a god, yet can not offer a single whit of
honest,
verifiable evidence. That nobody knows (yet) what the answers are, but that
is a very poor reason to invent some imaginary god, even worse to accecpt
some other persons idea of what this imaginary god is like.
fly mx
> news:umecjsa...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "AL Mills" <alm...@crownstopspam.net> wrote in message
> >
news:90B766B67A9226DA.092628EE...@lp.airnews.net...
> > >
> > > "fly mx"
> > >
> > > I have been in this NG for several years and never before (...)
> > That's a load , you are not insulted , you are threatened by anyone
elses
> > view (...)
> > (...)
> > > (...)
> >
> > Not sure where you get the praising of that other stuff, more like
> knocking
> > a [ dangerous ] belief that a god will save someone from a faulty
> aircraft,
> > that's just to silly,
>
> Don't dismiss that so lightly, Dave. I myself, coming from a christian
> family and nominally christian, but atheistic in my worldview, have felt
> saved from many a danger -and more than once-.
people into trouble by blurring the facts.
Someone can " feel " in danger and lash out violently, but they justified it
because they " felt " they were in danger, does not mean they were.
From serious danger in
> ultralights, in rivers, at sea, in a park, in the street... Could be a
> coincidence, yes, but
I feel that existence itself is a mystery, and life,
> the awareness of life and existence, is probably the key one.
I completely agree , that is why I feel it does not make sense to the point
of being arrogent for anyone to say " I know there is a god " when people
talk about there " beliefs ".
A belief is just that , facts are something completely different, I will not
close my mind to facts because of someone elses beliefs.
In a universe
> where the answers to that mystery are unreadable, why dismiss a *real*
> intervention?
Yours and my definition of real will be completely different, feelings are
real, results of feelings are real, but the reason for the feelings are
perception.
>
> Who knows?
Not me ,that's for sure, but not anyone else either , it is always an
interesting subject, but I have come to grips with the fact that the likely
hood of decifering this mystery is highly unlikely, so I live by the default
meathod, do what I can do for others, be as honest as possible [ hard
sometimes ], keep my word etc.
Oh ya, I could not run the program because of my lack of Dos on this
computers O.S. , I will have to make a bootable and put the program on it to
make it run, I am in the process of doing that now.
I ran a quick check on it on a friends lap top , his had Dos, so it worked
ok, I slipped on one of the input #'s and got a final thrust of something
like 30000lbs .. typed in 332" dia. instead of 32" .
Dave.
Fr. John
> > Don't dismiss that so lightly, Dave. I myself, coming from a christian
> > family and nominally christian, but atheistic in my worldview, have felt
> > saved from many a danger -and more than once-
fly mx said:
> That is to the point " felt ", as in a emotion, not a fact, emotions get
> people into trouble by blurring the facts.
> Someone can " feel " in danger and lash out violently, but they justified
it
> because they " felt " they were in danger, does not mean they were.
"Felt" is also used in contexts other than emotion. It is a sensing verb. In
this case, one might understand the word to mean "perceived intuitively."
Intuition is not emotion. It is a right-brain way of processing information.
In the name of the whatever you find transcendent, or holy, or sacred, or
true, or even "pretty damn good,"
let's all take a deep breath, take a couple of steps backwards,
do a thorough preflight, and go get some aerial therapy.
Fr. John
Tech Rep for "To Whom It May Concern" (Is that broad enough?)
fly mx
I am not selling , but I am not buying it either.
You must be a christian as well , very intollerant.
Dave.
"Lee Willcox" <leewi...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Krt99.54587$aA.11958@sccrnsc02...
Lee Willcox
fly mx
.
Why anyone would want to embrace any religion that is full of deciples with
these two traits is beyond me.
Dave.
But feel free to .
Open post.
Message.
Block sender.
unless you have at least something intelligent to add to the subject, you
seem to be able to only hover just above pre-pubesent name calling.
"Lee Willcox" <leewi...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:yHW99.19374$_91...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Vagn
It was a Teradyctil Acender. wing folded and he ended up in sombodoys back
yard. He actually survived the impact, but passed away en route to the
hospital.
Apperently he had a 4-5 year long habbit of flying over oakville and waving
at folks in thier backyard. Reports herabouts are he was at 400-500', which
considering this is GTA airspace would make sense..
Mike
John Hunt
Why don't you guys take this to one of alt.religion's 29 groups?
jh
Lee Willcox
You are full of SHIT!
Welcome to my kill file, have a nice stay......
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:umgipuj...@corp.supernews.com...
CW
DISCUSSION GROUP --------- --- OR TO YOUR PRIVATE EMAIL...........
!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS A ULTRALIGHT DISCUSSION GROUP
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Russell
Do you have any more details on why the wing folded? Being the owner of a
Dac I'm kinda interested in such accidents!!!
Cheers
Russell
"Vagn" <val...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:FWX99.9608$xL1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Vagn
I just know whats been in the local papers and news..and the 2 major papers
had conflicting details as to altitude..considering he survived the impact,
I suspect the lower is correct..
only other thing was this particular plane was an original about 20 years
old. Nothing on maintainence ect..
Mike
Stan Premo
"CW" <CWBR...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24547-3D6...@storefull-2118.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Kevin McCue
doing spins in an airplane the is placarded "spins prohibited." On his 5th
spin he was not able to recover. The POH for the cirrus states that the
minimum alt for chute use is 900 some feet for that aircraft. An observer
stated that the aircraft was not that high. The investigator's preliminary
finding was that the pilot initiated chute activation only when impact was
imminent and the deployment sequence was not complete. IE the rocket had
extracted the chute but the chute had not inflated by impact.
The hard pull is completely a seperate issue and the FAA issued an AD on
it.
"Jake Brodsky" <fru...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:t4l9muovi8ggpfaq6...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:14:44 +1000, "ican" <ic...@froggy.com.au> wrote:
>
> >I understand the fact that they have saved lives, and at the risk of
opening
> >a Pandora's box, are they as effective as we are led to believe. The
> >evidence that I have heard, being in no way vast, seems to indicate they
are
> >less than effective in situations where UL's find themselves introuble..
ie
> >shortly after take-off, on approach, after major structural failure. The
> >cost here in Australia at least means the difference between flying and
> >financial restraint.
>
> First, if anything goes wrong shortly after takeoff, you're screwed,
> with or without the chute. I wouldn't use criteria like that to
> decide whether I want a rescue chute on the aircraft.
>
> These types of chutes are also available for a few GA aircraft. I've
> always been queasy about them. If you have a crash landing, and that
> chute wasn't deployed for whatever reason, it becomes an undetonated
> bomb instead of a rescue device. This is particularly an issue for
> those attempting rescue of the pilot and who may not be aware of the
> undeployed recovery chute.
>
> This was actually the case recently in the first recorded case of
> attempted rescue chute deployment with a Cirrus. The pilot had engine
> failure over territory that he deemed too hostile to attempt an
> emergency landing. The pilot tried like hell to pull the rip cord and
> discovered that it required too much force to pull. Now the crash
> landing he faced was made worse because the chute rip-cord was
> partially pulled. IIRC, the chute did deploy once they hit the
> ground. The last news I'm aware of on this accident was that the NTSB
> was still investigating.
>
> On the other hand, I can envision several scenarios where a chute
> would be a solid benefit: Structural failure is one such situation.
> Losing the engine over heavily forested terrain would be another.
> However, those situations are hardly common events. In most cases
> everyone (both on the ground and in the air) would be better served if
> the pilot made a forced landing while the aircraft is still
> controllable.
>
> I'd think carefully about the terrain typically being overflown, the
> aircraft design, and the sort of maintenance being done before
> considering a recovery chute. I think there are a few situations
> where one is warranted, but there aren't many.
>
>
> Jake Brodsky, mailto:fru...@erols.com
> "Nearly fifty percent of all graduates came from
> the bottom half of the class."
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
OLISFLYROD
Vagn
anybody that wants a 'chute..but doesnt have or want to spend the 2500+ for
a BRS should pick up graham lee's (nieuport fame) "Beamcraft/ONW-TNW"
plans..for 25 bucks or so, ya get not only aircraft plans, BUT ALSO plans
for a drouge-deployed (no rocket required) parachute utilizing surpluss
millitary cargo chutes. Easily doable for 500 bucks, and more stramilined/
lighter than the commercial balistic version..
It wont save ya from 200'...500 might be iffy for a full canopy, but there
would be some benifit... above that it would have more than plenty of time
to fully deploy.
Mike
TREXBLUNCK
Lou Hinshaw
>"fly mx"
> I have been in this NG for several years and never before have I had to
>sit through insults like yours. Anyone in their right mind, truth be told,
>knows that they are on their way to eternity in a lake of fire unless the
>accept the gift of salvation through Christ. This has been proven many times
>but the witnesses don't have the luxury of returning to give the evidence.
>This is what I know to be true, and if you are not intentionally insulting
>and belittling me, considering what you've said so far, the only decent
>thing to do would be to drop the issue.
> I do not come to this NG to offend anyone over their world-view, but,
>neither should I have to listen to rants about someone else's world-view. An
>occasional reference to a world-view will not draw a response related to
>world view, except the one from you. It is you, alone, MX, who is trampling
>on my world-view. The purpose of this post is to again ask you to lay off. I
>will entertain any opinion you may have on ultralights with complete
>equanimity, I will not comment on taglines praising various deities,
>hedonism or whatever. If you're not here to antagonize, then don't. It's
>that simple.
Okay, I will trample on your world view.
My Goddess gave birth to your God,
Ergo, my Goddess has seniority.
While my Goddess is whiping the ass of
your young upstart God, can we get back
to the basis of this thread?
It wouls be so VERY kind of you.
Jimmy Galvin
easily confuse faith with facts. When this happens it is impossible to show
them their thinking is flawed by stating facts. If this is what you are
trying to do, give it up and move on. OTOH if you just enjoy jerking their
chain, then keep it up.
"Lou Hinshaw" <aru...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:akehvt$bse$5...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
Kerry Green
>
>"Glen Weldon" <bo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ak5kih$1gbfgu$1...@ID-142850.news.dfncis.de...
>> I'll agree with Mr. Mills. Your response to his very small comment on
>"GOD"
>> was completely uncalled for.
>Telling me I and anyone else who do not believe in that crap are going to
>hell on the river o fire is not a small comment on god.
>It was on topic, please re-read before you reply.
>
> Your rant on top of your initial rant
>> definately stepped on the beliefs of Christians.
>The existance of relgions steps on my beliefs, so what is your point.
>If yours or anyone elses religion can not stand on its own with critisizm
>then it can not be all that good.
>
>Mr. Mills didn't stomp on
>> your beliefs and tell you that your beliefs offend him.
>
>Well actually the fire and brimstone stuff was just that ..offensive, not
>because I do not believe in that crap but because the way it is used in
>scaring/forcing children into believing in that god.
If it is crap, and if it is used to scare/force children, fair enough.
BUT ... if there is a hell, if there is a lake of fire, if there is
eternal damnation for sin, then scaring people about it before they
die might be the kindest thing you can do.
>And chances are my beliefs do offend him as most likely they offend you as
>well.
>The first post was not a rant , it was a sarcastic comment on the sillyness
>of the belief that a god will save you from a bad air craft.
>Do you not agree..
So true! God is extremely unlikely to cancel the laws on physics for
the sake of any of us who gets ourselves in an airborne sticky
situation.
fly mx
"Kerry Green" <kgr...@202.76.128.52> wrote in message
news:3d9ac18e...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 04:03:48 -0400, "fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Glen Weldon" <bo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:ak5kih$1gbfgu$1...@ID-142850.news.dfncis.de...
> >> I'll agree with Mr. Mills. Your response to his very small comment on
> >"GOD"
> >> was completely uncalled for.
> >Telling me I and anyone else who do not believe in that crap are going to
> >hell on the river o fire is not a small comment on god.
> >It was on topic, please re-read before you reply.
> >
> > Your rant on top of your initial rant
> >> definately stepped on the beliefs of Christians.
> >The existance of relgions steps on my beliefs, so what is your point.
> >If yours or anyone elses religion can not stand on its own with critisizm
> >then it can not be all that good.
> >
> >Mr. Mills didn't stomp on
> >> your beliefs and tell you that your beliefs offend him.
> >
> >Well actually the fire and brimstone stuff was just that ..offensive, not
> >because I do not believe in that crap but because the way it is used in
> >scaring/forcing children into believing in that god.
>
> If it is crap, and if it is used to scare/force children, fair enough.
> BUT ... if there is a hell, if there is a lake of fire, if there is
> eternal damnation for sin, then scaring people about it before they
> die might be the kindest thing you can do.
>
Ok, first off, if you are that worried that there is a hell, that there is
an evil vindictive/vengefull god [obviously.. because it would inflict pain
apon such an ignorant creature as a human being for the one sole reason of
not " believing " that it exists ], then you surely must not have any
children for fear they will not follow your beliefs and be burned for
eternity in that lake of fire, that's alot of responsibiliy you have for
just one human being..what pressure you must be under.
So if that did not throw a wrench in you perfect ideals..
Then second , do you want everyone or even someone you know [ or more
anoyingly someone you do not know knocking on your damn door on a Saturday
freakin morning handing out damn pamphlet about how much of a sinner/in this
case just how stupid you are becuase you do not believe in what they do ] to
tell you everytime you go to take a flight in your craft that you "could"
crash and you " could" die or you " could " be paralized for the rest of
your life... going by your theory and actions they would be correct to do
so, you know " save you " from yourself... well ok, you obviosly will not
like that at all ..but the odds are better that you "are" going to die in a
firey splat on the ground than your god out of the thousands of gods on
record that you believe in really exists...
And of course as you obviously " do not know " for sure then you would be
imposing your fears on other people , where did you ever get the idea that
you are the one to tell others what mythical [sp?] gods are real and which
one are not...ask yourself ""honestly"" who " gave " you that " power"
to "inflict" your beliefs/fears on anyone else.
Do you go to the stock market and "tell" people how to trade because you
have " faith/beliefs" in what stocks will go up ... no!!! obviously because
you " only " have faith , no facts .. and without facts your pushing your
faith/control onto others... this is not doing anyone a favour would you not
agree..
Would this also be the same god that you fear, like an alcoholic teaching
there child to drink, they will also find it very hard to go threw life and
believe that they do not need that bottle, once you are hooked it is very
hard to let go, how many people are " christians" or whatever from birth or
in otherwards because they were told that is the way it is,compared to
people that are in thier adulthood that go to religion by choice [ and I am
talking about without some tramatic experience in there life that may push
them while in an emotional/not rational state ] , adults that have at least
the best possible chance of computing logical decisions and acting on it , I
find there are and I know religious people that are fairly to highly
rational , when put forth basic questions of there belief some will actually
admit they are running on " faith ", and the rational questions are
confusing to them as the good book does not answer for reality only faith...
but they STILL insist on PREACHING SOMETHING THEY DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE......
So for another example, sort of on topic comparison..
If someone on this NG made statements about whatever.. say a possible engine
fault of "X" engine but had no proof , or any concrete rational facts to
base there statements on , they would and should be called on the carpet for
it before those statement get out of hand and turn into a "rumor" that can
then turn into a "possibility" that can turn into a "belief" that can turn
into a "FACT"... all because no one spoke up and questioned there validity
and asked for proof..
We have had 2000 years of christianity[ and others religions beliefs ]
rammed down our throats because people did not or were afraid to speak up
for fear of prosecution and of course death, we thankfully are living in a
more intelligent and interacting/communicating world , this communication
will help bring peoples beliefs out of the past and bring them into the
future, why do you think there are countries that run by religious dictators
that will not allow any communication with the outside word, they will lose
" control " , religion is control , nothing else .
If you want to hope and pray your craft will not crash , go ahead , I think
actually using the best information at hand to keep the craft maintained and
ready for flight is a little more practical , rational and well, more
intelligent..
This is where this thread started , a comment on a god looking out for a
risk taking pilot , funny how the attacts were pretty fast and hard and
malicious to stomp out other ideas, just like how those religious dictators
run their countries...but they have the advantage of just killing off anyone
in there way and do it in the name of there god, something alot of religions
have done in that past and still in the present.
So next time you have the urge to tell someone the " truth " , try starting
with it and saying " I don't really know " ..
Either way , thanks for the exorcise, always good to be given the
opportunity to share ideas.
"The Church in all ages and among all peoples has been the consistent enemy
of the human race. Everywhere and at all times, it has opposed the liberty
of
thought and expression. It has been the sworn enemy of investigation and
intellectual development. It has denied the existence of facts, the tendency
of which was
to undermine its power. It has erected the gallows for Genius. It has built
the
dungeon for Thinkers. And today the Orthodox Church is as much opposed as it
ever
was to the mental freedom of the human race." -- R.G. Ingersoll
Dave. I don't care if he is a nut or not, it's a quote I like..makes the
religious types really nervous..
Quill
> So next time you have the urge to tell someone the " truth " , try
starting
> with it and saying " I don't really know " ..
> Either way , thanks for the exorcise, always good to be given the
> opportunity to share ideas.
>
> "The Church in all ages and among all peoples has been the consistent
enemy
> of the human race. Everywhere and at all times, it has opposed the liberty
> of
> thought and expression. It has been the sworn enemy of investigation and
> intellectual development. It has denied the existence of facts, the
tendency
> of which was
> to undermine its power. It has erected the gallows for Genius. It has
built
> the
> dungeon for Thinkers. And today the Orthodox Church is as much opposed as
it
> ever
> was to the mental freedom of the human race." -- R.G. Ingersoll
>
An outstanding response, accurate, on the money! I would suggest
two things:
1. You use a spell checker, and...
2. You might offer the idiots a more benign, more fun imaginary
friend as an alternative to their current imaginary friend that is so
scary and down right mean. Here is an example:
http://www.geocities.com/ipu_temple/
Where we find that...
"The Invisible Pink Unicorns is a being of great spiritual power. We know
this because she is capable of being invisible and pink at the same time.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based
upon both logic and faith. We have faith that she is pink; we logically
know that she is invisible because we can't see her."
See? It all makes sense now, does it not? It makes every bit as much
sense as ANY other religion out there. Notice also that there is no high
and mighty one threatening you with the gravest of consequences if you
do not turn over control of your life and property to them...
cl...@snyder.on
OK - Now it's OK for you to rant and rave and call anyone who doesn;t
believe/disbelieve the way you do stupid, You can accuse THEM of
preaching something they don't know for sure?
Come on - GROW UP.
There are two arguements NO MAN will ever win ( no woman either)
They are RELIGION and POLITICS
The vitrolic diatribes such as what is going on here about religion
show just how little some people know and understand (on both sides)
fly mx
actually the opposite, but I do know that anyone that spouts religion does
not know either and does not have enough real proof that "their" god exists
to force their beliefs on others, I am not telling anyone "to believe"
anything, again the opposite, I am saying I don't for the reasons given ,
and do not ram it down our throats as it has been in the past, if you know
and can state "real facts" then by all means do the human race a favour and
save us, but you don't so keep your " you need to's" to yourself.
Do you believe everything you hear,, I am assuming not, that would not be to
smart now would it, well religion is everything you hear, ever met a god!??,
me neither, it's an ugly rumor that has spread for years.
How hard is that to understand..
And of course, as I stated if you do not want or are afraid to " discuss "
this topic do not reply, my "rant" as you call it was a reply, I did not
ask for anyones opinion other than the ones that are willing to accept a
rebutel.
Lay your cards on the table , all you can come up with is " I believe " ,
well they do not win in the game of "reality", facts do, facts foster
intelligence, facts create progress, facts " really " save lives,, faith
does absolutely nothing except hold people back by keeping them living in a
bubble that they can not see out of.
Maybe I should get a religion going [ pick a religion, any religion ..] and
tell you that you are not saved and tell you all the bad things that are
going to happen to you unless you believe me, how annoying would that
be..and more importantly ,how wrong would that be!?..
When you get past the fact that [and pay attention here , this is the
important part ] YOU DO NOT REALLY KNOW, then you will understand why people
will think and say what they do of your "beliefs".
Stating your beliefs and forcing them on others gives everyone else the
right to question them, so get used to it, the year is 2002 not 1002 were
you would most likely get stoned to death for questioning your
athaurity/beliefs/power.. whatever..
One person with your belief is not a problem to the human race, unfortunatly
millions with your belief are, they start wars to stomp out someone elses "
belief/god ",
Yours and others "god club/organization " have probably killed more people
than just about anything else in history,there can not be two kings in the
castle so the castle will divide and fight it out to see who wins... this
has happened as far back as we go in history, and is still happening and
will till we realize and get rid of the "kings" and rely on ourselves to
learn and make our own choices.
How long do you think the radical muslims are going to take christian
americas pounding, all you nut cases [ and I mean all religious sides ] are
going to destroy the earth and humanity , you personally may not be the one
pushing the button but you are all members of the clubs that built the
switch.
Dave.
<cl...@snyder.on>; <ca> wrote in message
news:msoiru44vcqrn24q5...@4ax.com...
fly mx
"Quill" <qu...@thewell.org> wrote in message
news:kN7u9.3783$6F4.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Hey, I like that religion, not nasty "kill all apponents of" like the others
..
" and the loveliest of them all was the Unicorn" the rovers [ only can be
done properly in an Irish accent ], always loved that song when I was a kid,
still do.
They'll be green alligators and long necked geese, some humpty back camels
and some chimpanzees....
It's kind of odd that I actully like alot of songs that have a religious
tone to them, amazing grace[ a very powerful song when done with full
stadium bag pipes ], people get ready, let it be... imagine ..
Oh ya, sorry about the spelling, can't and never could spell worth a damn,
maybe/ I am sure actaully that negates any of my arguements
to some..... hmmmm but I hear Hitler was very good at spelling ... hmmmmmm
Dave.
Dale Schmitz
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:urhmdld...@corp.supernews.com...
fly mx
a further response which like you, are getting here.
The subject header does say " veiring off topic..more boring religious crap
" so obviously if you do not want to see it , do not read or respond to it.
Your world is not that small that you can not hear anything other than talk
on aircraft is it, maybe you will learn something new maybe you will agree
with the religious arguement , maybe you won't , either way you will learn
something, aint that what lifes all about.
Thanks for asking.
But by the way I did ask and never got an answer to a question a long way
back...
""Does anyone know where on the web I can find specs on propeller/fan design
and performance of them, what hp it takes to create what thrust etc.. , more
specificaly the enclosed fan style prop that is used on the one man air
machine Solo Trek ..""
If you have something to offer up in an answer it would be on topic..
Thanks.
Dave
"Dale Schmitz" <aeth...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:apca2a$k...@dispatch.concentric.net...
Mark Smith
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> ""Does anyone know where on the web I can find specs on propeller/fan design
> and performance of them, what hp it takes to create what thrust etc.. , more
> specificaly the enclosed fan style prop that is used on the one man air
> machine Solo Trek ..""
try rec.church.aviation
I think they may be off topic and discuss this once in a while,,,,,,,
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
1-812-838-6351
fly mx
When in the hanger do people just stop talking when there is nothing at the
time that has to do with aircraft to talk about???
There is a world other than rec.aviation.ultralight.. really..
And that world is full of people who think and do things that are
entertaining to others whether they like it or not.
Wish someone would invent a " lighten up pill " ..
Dave.
"Mark Smith" <ma...@trikite.com> wrote in message
news:3DB9CE...@trikite.com...
Stan Premo
Mark Browne
That is why we have 30K plus news groups.
Its not the avaition club or society.
Each is supposed to hold contents related the group name.
Mark Browne
<snip>
> When in the hanger do people just stop talking when there is nothing at
the
> time that has to do with aircraft to talk about???
> There is a world other than rec.aviation.ultralight.. really..
> And that world is full of people who think and do things that are
> entertaining to others whether they like it or not.
<snip>
fly mx
No one "started" a " religion is a load of crap " topic [ that would be a
neticit no-no starting a major off topic thread ] , it evolved starting with
the reference to someones god, the subject was in the previous post, you do
have an option of NOT reading the post, it is clearly subjectlined , is
there a gun pointed at your head making you read any of this, I will assume
not [ well other than an imaginary religious guilt/fear gun , they are very
efficient in control ], so the only reason you read this is curiosity and
then not liking the outcome , what do you really have to lose in not reading
this stuff, what do you really have to lose in it being here [ I am pretty
sure I asked if there is a K limit on this ng ].
If you really can not handle it use the kill file ...religion tends to
close/limit peoples minds anyway so this will help in your quest.
I am pretty sure this is how it is done..
In news group:
Tools/message rules/ news group/block sender.
Dave.
"Mark Browne" <mbr...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:IWvu9.117139$La5.3...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
fly mx
Please re-direct your request to the proper posters.
IF you have been paying attention you would notice "I" have not made " ANY "
start subject posts other than the first and it really wasn't one ,that was
a "REPLY" , and since then I have only been " REPLYING" to "OTHERS"
posts..LIKE YOURS..
And probably for the 10th time, if you do not want a reply , do not say
anything and you will get none, it's really not a hard concept.
Or use the kill file.
Is that clear enough.
If you are afraid of the religious nuts then just say nothing , no need to
jump on the band wagon, everyone [ should know buy now anyway ] that the
fanatical religious are the last ones you can trust [ who do you think
starts all the dam wars ], they wear the white suit on Sunday and smile in
your face and tell you how great it is to be at one with some god... but if
you don't believe in their crap you are now their worst enemy and are
treated as an outsider..they may not let you know to your face [ until an
opportune time ] but for sure will if you publicly refute what they believe.
In otherwards they will consider you a second class human being, they will
put themselves and their god above you... anyone who puts an " imaginary god
" over a "real human being" is a second class human being.
If you want to post back and tell me I am wrong or an idiot or whatever [
full of shit was already used :) ], save it , only because you will get
another post back and that is what seems to bother you in the first place, I
will just assume you did not agree and leave it at that.
Why don't some of the holly rollers here do some good and answer my damn [
thrust per hp per diameter of prop in duct if possible ] question instead of
bitching about their poor defenceless god....
Thanks Stan .
Dave
"Stan Premo" <stan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3db9...@news.greennet.net...
> Please take this discussion to a proper venue! Enough already!
> "fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
> news:urj5dkm...@corp.supernews.com...
> > I suggest you re-read, I have never told anyone that I " know " the
answer
> ,
> > actually the opposite, but I do know that anyone that spouts religion
does
> > not know either and does not have enough real proof that "their" god
> exists
> > to force their beliefs on others, I am not telling anyone "to believe"
>
HHHUUUUUUGGG SNIP
Rich May
Like everyone else in the world, you are certainly entitled to your
views and opinions, and I will certainly not try to change them for
you.
I will suggest though that you take a little more time in
proof-reading your posts. I know it is hard when you make such a long
post. However, I find your post hard to read. Due to the
punctuation, grammar, and spelling errors, I spend more time trying to
determine what tone you are using and the actual message you are
attempting to send.
I believe most people would agree with you. I just think they are
reading you incorrectly. Please remember the most important rule of
communication: It is the senders responsibility to ensure then the
receiver receives the message properly.
Finally, since this is a religious topic, I will add my two cents.
For me, all I have to do is look outside at the beauty of nature to
believe there is a God.
As well, if you are referring to the leaders of OUR country killing
everyone, I believe you are wrong. First, this country was founded by
Christians. Everything is our constitution is based on the Christian
religion. Ironically, the Christian religion is what allows people to
practice freedom of religion--just like you have chosen to do. Even
not believing in religion is a freedom not every country enjoys.
Finally, the leaders of our country attack other countries who
threaten the lives of people of our country. Iraq is a very real
threat to our country. Obviously, he is developing Nuclear weapons
and has no intention of stopping or complying with the UN. How long
do you want to wait. . .until after he has deployed his nuclear
weapons? Some people try to cloud the reality by saying it is about
the oil or the economics involved. It is funny how those people all
drive cars or buy food from stores that the food was brought to it by
trucks that burn oil, or how they enjoy medical services that our
economy affords them, and otherwise enjoy the lifestyle of the nation
with the best economy in the world. In my opinion, if you aren't
willing to fight for your lifestyle, move to that country and fight
for their lifestyle.
Finally, don't forget about all the Iraqis-Americans that demonstrate
in Support of the Bush Administration. They tell the media that,
unless Saddam is stopped, more Iraqis will die every day. Are you
going to stand by and watch the genecide? Is that your belief of what
we, as the most powerful nation in the world, should do? Reference:
On a nearby street corner, a handful of Iraqi Americans staged a
counterdemonstration. Aziz al-Taee, spokesman for the Iraqi American
Council, said, "I think America is doing just fine. ... We think every
day Saddam stays in power, he kills more Iraqis."
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/4963782p-5974614c.html
All I can really say is" Thank God Gore was not the one running our
nation when Al Quaida attacked our soil.
Well, that is my two cents. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!
Richard May
Mark Browne
that this country was founded by Christians.
Our country had functioning governments before the Christians
came and slaughtered a good share of the inhabitants in the
process of subjugating the native peoples.
<snip>
> As well, if you are referring to the leaders of OUR country killing
> everyone, I believe you are wrong. First, this country was founded by
> Christians. Everything is our constitution is based on the Christian
> religion. Ironically, the Christian religion is what allows people to
> practice freedom of religion--just like you have chosen to do. Even not
> believing in religion is a freedom not every country enjoys.
>
> Finally, the leaders of our country attack other countries who threaten
the
> lives of people of our country.
fly mx
"Richard May" <carol...@snowcrest.net> wrote in message
news:apj180$shr$1...@news.snowcrest.net...
> Fly,
>
> Like everyone else in the world, you are certainly entitled to your views
> and opinions, and I will certainly not try to change them for you.
>
Not everyone was entitled to there views and it is still that way today ,
that was one of my points of how evil religions really are.
Christians used to kill other christians for not believing " exactly " as
they did, example : catholic/protestant , they still believed in the same
basic myth but that was not good enough , you had to believe the whole damn
thing or possibly face death.
And today they are still killing each other over the same crap, how stupid
is that.
> I will suggest though that you take a little more time in proof-reading
your
> posts. I know it is hard when you make such a long post. However, I find
> your post hard to read. Due to the punctuation, grammar, and spelling
> errors, I spend more time trying to determine what tone you are using and
> the actual message you are attempting to send.
>
Suggestion taken already and explained already, I am a lousy speller
period...sorry , if there is anything specifically on grammar just ask.
Ya I would prefer to have the posts smaller but there is no such thing as a
one word answer.
Just take my "tone" as negative with anything to do with religion, that
should help in understanding my posts.
> I believe most people would agree with you. I just think they are reading
> you incorrectly. Please remember the most important rule of
communication:
> It is the senders responsibility to ensure then the receiver receives the
> message properly.
>
Ya I agree it is the communicators responsibility to communicate as
effectively as possible, but unfortunately at this point this is as good as
it gets, if you don't understand there is probably not much else I can do, I
will try though.
The ones that do not agree have spoken up and had there say, funny how most
of the posts go something like...---" we are not here to talk about my
god"..bla bla bla.. "so do not do it"..bla bla ....[then its]...--- "my god
is"...bla bla bla......" so stop it" ..
It really illustrates how they really are, dictators , a diluted less
powerful version of the whole mass of them, as I have said, one is not a
problem to the human race , but millions of them have been the biggest
problem.
> Finally, since this is a religious topic, I will add my two cents. For
me,
> all I have to do is look outside at the beauty of nature to believe there
is
> a God.
All I have to do is look outside to believe there is not a god,I am not sure
how you got to that conclusion.
I see the same beauty but I also see the same brutal reality of nature.
There most likely is something out there alot more intelligent than us , I
hope anyway , we obviously are not all that smart, we have spent all of
recordable time finding new and better ways to kill or destroy others,
religion/belief in higher power have pretty well always been the driving
force to this destructive nature of humans.
To think there is a god that we are "imaged" after is just silly, to think
that something that is this powerful to create a universe that needs arms ,
legs or anything else physical just is not all that logical to me.
Most people will agree that the mythical gods of Greece are just that "
Mythical gods ", but there was a time that the masses in that time "
believed " , time has led to a rise in intelligence and shown the odds of
this missinformation to be pretty slim to be true, in other wards " no proof
", they held onto it as long as they could and then let go, christianity or
any religion is the same and will eventually fall as well, most people want
to live in the past, it is [ understandably ] a safe feeling place to be,
but history has shown it is not all that safe to anyone else.
>
> As well, if you are referring to the leaders of OUR country killing
> everyone, I believe you are wrong. First, this country was founded by
> Christians. Everything is our constitution is based on the Christian
> religion. Ironically, the Christian religion is what allows people to
> practice freedom of religion--just like you have chosen to do. Even not
> believing in religion is a freedom not every country enjoys.
>
Well you may want to go into history a bit further back than a couple of
years, Native indians were here along time before any of our ancestors ""
invaded "" and "" took by force"" the land, in the name of some god...
It is ironic how when that nut job Husien was trying to do his invading
trying to gain control of a "large land mass with great riches for his own
gain".., the PM of England at the time [ can not remember his name ] stated
that is was a "barbaric act" , well I do not remember anyone from England
with apologees to the Natives of Canada or the US for doing the exact same
thing a few hundred years ago, it always seems to be ok to be a hypocrite ,
nationally and personally as long as your " god " lets you...
You wrote --"Ironically, the Christian religion is what allows people to
practice freedom of religion--just like you have chosen to do." , just think
about what you wrote, "christian religion is what allows", you are speaking
from a christian power perspective and are giving a perfect example of my
point that anyone religious has that feeling of a superior position to other
non religious humans, and they use it in obvious and not so obvous ways.
> Finally, the leaders of our country attack other countries who threaten
the
> lives of people of our country.
If the human race would get rid of religions as their driving force behind
hatred and fear "most" of the wars would go away,not all but it would be a
good start, we would be left with our own basic ignorance and failings as
human beings to work on and grow from there.
Most humans want the same basic things when you get right down to it ,
rights as a human , to be treated as all others, equals .
Religions are the biggest barrier to human harmony, they in themselves
acknowledge they singularly are the "only" way to go.
Give a man a tool that has the power to kill or control with and chances are
he will use it, religion is a tool,it is an out of control entity with a
mind and power of it's own that feeds and grows on the fears and other basic
emotions of the human race .
Iraq is a very real threat to our country.
Yes ,he is a threat to the world.
> Obviously, he is developing Nuclear weapons and has no intention of
stopping
> or complying with the UN.
Odds are this is correct.
How long do you want to wait. . .until after he
> has deployed his nuclear weapons?
Unfortunately something has to be done.
Some people try to cloud the reality by
> saying it is about the oil or the economics involved.
Of course oil and economics has "something" to do with it, but not all of
it, but at this point that stuff is kind of irrellevant, he is a nut job
that should have been stopped years ago, the US should have taken him out
when this crap started in the Gulf, Bush I am sure did not kill him for fear
of being killed himself by retaliation of a Saddam Patriot.
The US is by no means the savior of the world , they put there efforts where
there interests lie [ example: Rowanda, 1/2mill people get slaughtered, no
oil, nothing to get in return, no threat, no help ..
It would be nice and much more respected if they would at least admit that .
Just a point here though, I realize there is alot more to not killing him
[ Saddam Insane ] than that ,one would be the US would have to at least semi
govern the country for a period , something they would most likely not want
to do.
But as I have said, he is a nut job, this man has killed his own in the name
of his fight so there will be no reasoning with him at any point in future
for this one main fact, they should have finished it and maybe we all would
not be facing another war , a war that will most lilely kill an incredibly
larger amount of people than the first did...who screwed up here.
It is funny how those
> people all drive cars or buy food from stores that the food was brought to
> it by trucks that burn oil, or how they enjoy medical services that our
> economy affords them, and otherwise enjoy the lifestyle of the nation with
> the best economy in the world. In my opinion, if you aren't willing to
> fight for your lifestyle, move to that country and fight for their
> lifestyle.
Not everyone is "fully" for our countries lifestyle and not everyone is "
fully " against it , that would be pretty simplistic, it is always changing
, sometimes for better and sometimes not , a blanket statement of you are
"either for or against" is an attempt at asserting power for the status quo
and not accepting that there may be better ways of existance .
>
> Finally, don't forget about all the Iraqis-Americans that demonstrate in
> Support of the Bush Administration. They tell the media that, unless
Saddam
> is stopped, more Iraqis will die every day. Are you going to stand by and
> watch the genecide? Is that your belief of what we, as the most powerful
> nation in the world, should do? Reference: On a nearby street corner, a
> handful of Iraqi Americans staged a counterdemonstration. Aziz al-Taee,
> spokesman for the Iraqi American Council, said, "I think America is doing
> just fine. ... We think every day Saddam stays in power, he kills more
> Iraqis." http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/4963782p-5974614c.html
>
You are preaching to the choir here...the guy is obviously nuts
All I can really say is" Thank God Gore was not the one running our nation
> when Al Quaida attacked our soil.
Bush was probably the better person for the military part of this.
I would not be thanking any god though, that is were all this crap starts
from.
In a way,Al Quaida attacked because they are under attack, christians are
under attack from the muslims, most religions attack all others because of
their existance..
They are all nuts but only a short trip in time to how nuts the rest of the
religions including christianity were [ violent,control and power hungry ],
the difference is most christians do not live in the uncomunicative third
world or caves anymore , they have seen the need to be "perceived" as being
passive now , if they had proceeded with the " attack and conquer "
direction [ like they did to the natives in the US and Can ], the rest of
the world would have eventually smatened up and stomped them, specially the
Muslims,they are are a dime a dozen and that is what there lives are worth
to the truely fanatical , and if pissed of enough they can and will be
induced to fight till the death for there god.
The only way I can see to stop this type of human behavior of having that
power for control is show by example we do not need gods, we need ourselves
to grow, myths are just that , myths , truth is unfortunately only relitive
to peoples myths/beliefs not always just facts.
As someone has said here, debating reality with someone who believes in the
irrational is pointless, I mostly agree, it is most likely pointless and to
late for the irrational but not to the ones that still have an open mind to
think for themselves.
I had a Jehovahs whitness come to the door a few years ago, they of course
woke me up , I went to the door , there they were ,smiles and papers in
hand, I asked if they were trying to sell me something, they ignored that
question and started with their garbage , being just woke, ill and got out
of bed for this crap I was not in the best of moods , so I unfortunately
went into a tirade of insults and profanity, something I really regret as
there were youngsters with them that were in training to do the same
harrassing in the future, I should have walked right past them to the kids
and explained that they have a mind of their own and to not blindly believe
anything that is forces apon them and to look for the clues of it being
forced on them in the future, ""religion is a drug that taken at low to
moderate doses from birth will make you dependant and a servant to it." DF.
>
> Well, that is my two cents. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!
>
I don't smoke, but I do appreciate the opportunity to hear your oppinion and
give mine.
Thanks.
Dave.
PS: sorry about the spelling and grammer it is the best I can do at this
time,I am working on it..
I do not have spell check..yet
Richard May
Well, that was an improvement. Although I think you took a couple things I
said out of context, I do agree with most of what you say. And you make
some very interesting points. I will probably do exactly what you should
have done to the next Jehovah Witness that comes to my door.
My wife was raised in that damn religion, and now her little sister is
sucked in too far to be rescued from herself. That religion is more of a
cult than most people realize. They have literally striped this 16 year old
girl of every free thinking cell in her brain, not to mention they have
raised her in a manner to completely remove all social skills needed to
survive in this world without the support of the church.
Well, I had better stop before I am sucked into spending my next two hours
in a negative mindset.
Warm Regards
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:urrajn6...@corp.supernews.com...
Nosferatu
I'm writing because I'm quite curious about some of your views. I'm going to
make a few comments after your words, so that when you respond I can better
understand where you're coming from.
> Not everyone was entitled to there views and it is still that way today ,
> that was one of my points of how evil religions really are.
> Christians used to kill other christians for not believing " exactly " as
> they did, example : catholic/protestant , they still believed in the same
> basic myth but that was not good enough , you had to believe the whole
damn
> thing or possibly face death.
> And today they are still killing each other over the same crap, how
stupid
> is that.
>
"Religions" usually are quite evil, as they are invariably man's attempt to
reach God on man's own terms, not God's. However, the world is full of
"Nominal" Christians, and "Real" Christians. NOWHERE in the Bible are
Christians told it's ok to kill others for not believing in Jesus Christ.
The very idea is appalling to God. I can go out and murder someone right now
in YOUR name, Fly MX, but that is absolutely no reflection on you. Same with
those historical murderers.
> If the human race would get rid of religions as their driving force behind
> hatred and fear "most" of the wars would go away,not all but it would be a
> good start, we would be left with our own basic ignorance and failings as
> human beings to work on and grow from there.
> Most humans want the same basic things when you get right down to it ,
> rights as a human , to be treated as all others, equals .
Right. They want anything and everything except a relationship with their
creator, which implies answering to a higher moral authority.
> Religions are the biggest barrier to human harmony, they in themselves
> acknowledge they singularly are the "only" way to go.
> Give a man a tool that has the power to kill or control with and chances
are
> he will use it, religion is a tool,it is an out of control entity with a
> mind and power of it's own that feeds and grows on the fears and other
basic
> emotions of the human race .
And the Bible clearly shows man's depraved tendancy to use religion to
justify torturing and killing. But this is man's nature; again it is not a
reflection on God.
> The only way I can see to stop this type of human behavior of having that
> power for control is show by example we do not need gods, we need
ourselves
> to grow, myths are just that , myths , truth is unfortunately only
relitive
> to peoples myths/beliefs not always just facts.
> As someone has said here, debating reality with someone who believes in
the
> irrational is pointless, I mostly agree, it is most likely pointless and
to
> late for the irrational but not to the ones that still have an open mind
to
> think for themselves.
It seems that your anger stems from whether or not the existence if God can
be proved. But the fact is that God's existence simply cannot be proved
through our usual "scientific" methods, nor through philosophical argument.
The Bible says that "without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God". God will
never remove the requirement of faith in relating to Him. The reason is
clearly stated. If "good" works enabled us to be righteous enough to commune
with God, then we in our depravity would brag and boast and feel superior to
others. God clearly states over and over that He despises that attitude.
He requires us to approach Him with a "broken and contrite heart". Not OUR
way (religion) but HIS way. The Bible teaches us that deep down inside, we
know there is a God (read Romans 1:18 for example), but we refuse to
acknowledge His existence so that we can justify answering to ourselves as
our highest authority. Proverbs says "The fool has said in his heart, "There
is no God"".
Please know that the intent of this post is to establish constructive
dialog, and not to inflame you. Let me know what you think about my
comments. I genuinely want to dialog with you about this, as I can tell
you're a thinking man, like myself. If you don't want to, that's ok too!
Thanks
Brian
fly mx
> Fly,
>
> Well, that was an improvement. Although I think you took a couple things
I
> said out of context, I do agree with most of what you say. And you make
> some very interesting points. I will probably do exactly what you should
> have done to the next Jehovah Witness that comes to my door.
>
> My wife was raised in that damn religion, and now her little sister is
> sucked in too far to be rescued from herself. That religion is more of a
> cult than most people realize. They have literally striped this 16 year
old
> girl of every free thinking cell in her brain, not to mention they have
> raised her in a manner to completely remove all social skills needed to
> survive in this world without the support of the church.
>
what to do, I am actually really only telling them to question as strongly
what they believe
as they would question any other religion or belief....in other words they
will inevidably come to the one major question .. "show me the proof" , it
may be a start to help your sister in law to at least try to understand and
think for herself, she obviously needs something that they are giving her
and are praying on that something.
> Well, I had better stop before I am sucked into spending my next two hours
> in a negative mindset.
I understand perfectly, I gotta step away from this stuff once and a while,
I was at a party the other night for a friends 90th birthday, a Muslim and a
Christian were " politely " trying to convert each other the whole night ,
quietly though so it was not really a problem for anyone else, I exorcised
an incredible amount of restraint not getting involved in that one, the lady
who the party was for is a sweetheart and really did not need to hear it, so
I stayed away from that one .
Dave.
It is "Dave" by the way, the "Fly mx" is actually because I race moto cross
[ mx ] dirt bikes and I really like to jump big distances, but it does scare
the hell out of me sometimes, I am terified of heights, have had multiple
fractures, dislocations even tore a hole in a not so nice area of my
anotomy, the nurses had a good laugh over that one I am sure....but I never
feel as alive when I am that close to losing it, it's quite a rush.
But if you prefere Fly ,thats fine.
>
> Warm Regards
>
>
> "fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
> news:urrajn6...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Richard May" <carol...@snowcrest.net> wrote in message
> > news:apj180$shr$1...@news.snowcrest.net...
> > > Fly,
> >
> > >
> > > Like everyone else in the world, you are certainly entitled to your
> views
> > > and opinions, and I will certainly not try to change them for you.
> > >
> > Not everyone was entitled to there views and it is still that way today
,
> > that was one of my points of how evil religions really are.
> > Christians used to kill other christians for not believing " exactly "
as
> > they did, example : catholic/protestant , they still believed in the
same
> > basic myth but that was not good enough , you had to believe the whole
BIG SNIP AGAIN..
fly mx
"Nosferatu" <compguyrem...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:urs7ien...@corp.supernews.com...
> Fly,
>
> I'm writing because I'm quite curious about some of your views. I'm going
to
> make a few comments after your words, so that when you respond I can
better
> understand where you're coming from.
>
the net that I am sure you can get more answers from,
> > Not everyone was entitled to there views and it is still that way today
,
> > that was one of my points of how evil religions really are.
> > Christians used to kill other christians for not believing " exactly "
as
> > they did, example : catholic/protestant , they still believed in the
same
> > basic myth but that was not good enough , you had to believe the whole
> damn
> > thing or possibly face death.
> > And today they are still killing each other over the same crap, how
> stupid
> > is that.
> >
>
> "Religions" usually are quite evil, as they are invariably man's attempt
to
> reach God on man's own terms, not God's. However, the world is full of
> "Nominal" Christians, and "Real" Christians. NOWHERE in the Bible are
> Christians told it's ok to kill others for not believing in Jesus Christ.
> The very idea is appalling to God. I can go out and murder someone right
now
> in YOUR name, Fly MX, but that is absolutely no reflection on you. Same
with
> those historical murderers.
>
Ok , I guess this is a good a place to start as any, I had to "borrow" from
some web sites for this stuff.***************
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one
who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these
enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and
slay them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land where you are entering to
possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the
Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the
Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And
when the Lord your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then
you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and
show no favor to them." (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of
peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the
people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve
you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you,
then you shall besiege it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand,
you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the
women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its
spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of
your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. Only in the cities of
these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you
shall not leave alive anything that breathes." (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
Luke 19
26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but
as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But
those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them
here and kill them in front of me.' "
The Triumphal Entry
28After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.
****************************************************************************
*********
This is obviously a small example but you get the point .
>
> > If the human race would get rid of religions as their driving force
behind
> > hatred and fear "most" of the wars would go away,not all but it would be
a
> > good start, we would be left with our own basic ignorance and failings
as
> > human beings to work on and grow from there.
> > Most humans want the same basic things when you get right down to it ,
> > rights as a human , to be treated as all others, equals .
>
>
> Right. They want anything and everything except a relationship with their
> creator, which implies answering to a higher moral authority.
>
I am not sure what you mean, you are assuming that everyone believes in "
their creator" which I am assuming you mean to be your "god".
The " higher moral authority " is relitive to who is demanding it, you as a
religoius person will look to a book for your answers, others will look to
themselves and others that exist in their society for those same answers.
Religion is obviously not the answer , we still kill and try to control
each other after a couple of thousand years... maybe it is time to just try
something else.
>
> > Religions are the biggest barrier to human harmony, they in themselves
> > acknowledge they singularly are the "only" way to go.
> > Give a man a tool that has the power to kill or control with and chances
> are
> > he will use it, religion is a tool,it is an out of control entity with a
> > mind and power of it's own that feeds and grows on the fears and other
> basic
> > emotions of the human race .
>
>
> And the Bible clearly shows man's depraved tendancy to use religion to
> justify torturing and killing. But this is man's nature; again it is not a
> reflection on God.
See above examples of why a religious person would kill for there god,
muslims are no different, you just asked for christian examples.
Well I guess there is anger there, but I would suggest it is more a lack of
tollerance to the hypocricy and controlling nature of religions and there
deciples.
I am pretty sure I am way past the question of weather some god can be
proven to exist,
If something can not be proven with scientific meathods then it can not be
proven period , philosophical arguments are just what they are stated to be,
but not facts.
Your semi quote of what the bible says about faith is pretty convenient for
telling human beings to turn off there common sense and follow .
The reasons clearly stated do not really mean anything past the point of no
rational proof, I have sat down with preachers of all kinds, they are
constantly using the term " you must " then adding a comandment of some kind
of there god, what they do not seem to realize is we " do not " have to
believe anything, not in gods, the big bang theory, not in aliens, because
all of them can not be proven, what can be proven and should at least give a
try to believe in is human beings, if we start from that point maybe we will
have a chance to make things better.
Faith is hope based in something that you can not prove to exist, faith in
something has no chance to fix our problems , thinking and doing something
at least might.
> He requires us to approach Him with a "broken and contrite heart". Not OUR
> way (religion) but HIS way. The Bible teaches us that deep down inside, we
> know there is a God (read Romans 1:18 for example), but we refuse to
> acknowledge His existence so that we can justify answering to ourselves as
> our highest authority. Proverbs says "The fool has said in his heart,
"There
> is no God"".
Again, meaningless , all religions and forms of control will have this type
of script, it plays on the fears and self doubt that most humans posess.
All sorts of techniques are used to convert , fear , love , hate, need, even
greed if you look deep enough for it..
>
> Please know that the intent of this post is to establish constructive
> dialog, and not to inflame you. Let me know what you think about my
> comments. I genuinely want to dialog with you about this, as I can tell
> you're a thinking man, like myself. If you don't want to, that's ok too!
>
No problem at all [ although I am spending a bit to much time on this stuff
, I really am in a sort of self imposed semi retirement for a while to relax
and get healthier ], I used to work with a serious bible thumper, he would
give you the shirt off his back, on the surface and most of the way threw a
really nice guy, but as I got to know his deeper thoughts specially on
religon [ and he could site a lot of the bible verse by verse ], I began to
understand the evil inside of his " pure " beliefs, I do not think him to be
an evil man really , just a good intentioned man with not so good beliefs.
He would spout about the blacks being second to whites as human beings and
state versus from the bible that said this to be true,,, something about
"blacks being cursed", that one was quite a while back, or" blacks should
not marry whites", he seemed to love using the term " unequally yoked " , I
always laughed when he said that though he sounded like such a simpleton
follower spouting the commandments of life...in a thousand years if we
havn't completely destroyed ourselves colour is not going to mean a damn
thing ,we will " mostly " be somewhere in the middle of all the colours that
exist now ..
He reminded me of Archie Bunker from the TV show All in the family , he
meant well in his world but never acknowledged the real world that went on
outside of his, and that it was possibly better.
Just the way I saw it anyway.
Dave.
Oh , for being such an opinionated person that I am I really should have a
sig line that states '' I do acknowledge that I do not know all the answers
or am a perfect person , far from it, but I am trying to be better ".
Having an opinion or asking hard questions tends to disturb the status quo,
they do not want to have the burden of thinking for themselves , they are
comfortable in denial and will target any who disturb that comfort.
> Thanks
>
Thank you.
> Brian
>
>
Fr. John Elledge
commanding that his enemies be brought and slain, but part of a parable he
told which really does have a different meaning in context.
> "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the
one
> who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these
> enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here
and
> slay them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)
Those "bible thumpers" you complain about are a pain in my neck, too,
because they also like to take "proof texts" out of context and beat people
into submission with them. Not all Christians are like that. Not all
religious leaders use "religion" to control people. There are some of us who
really do think through theology and come up with the notion it's highly
probable that there is a God and that the overall history of humans trying
to understand God points to a God that is caring, loving and compassionate,
not the Ultimate Boogeyman in the sky.
Having said this, I apologize for furthering this thread. You finally
dangled a carrot before me that I couldn't resist biting.
May "To Whom It May Concern" bless you!
Fr. John
fly mx
"Fr. John Elledge" <frj...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:WIudnQeKpPI...@comcast.com...
> Hey, Guys, I'd just like to point out that this quote is not Jesus
> commanding that his enemies be brought and slain, but part of a parable he
> told which really does have a different meaning in context.
>
Maybe while your at it could you explain the other ones, hey maybe all the
religious wars in history were just a mistake, a misinterpitation..
oops , sorry about that old chum , no hard feelings!!! ....
> > "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the
> one
> > who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these
> > enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here
> and
> > slay them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)
>
> Those "bible thumpers" you complain about are a pain in my neck, too,
> because they also like to take "proof texts" out of context and beat
people
> into submission with them. Not all Christians are like that. Not all
> religious leaders use "religion" to control people.
When ever Bush or any other pres. are about to bomb some country to hell
they seem to use the word "god" alot,as well as "country" alot more than
they did before that particular situation arose.. hmmm wonder why that is...
There are some of us who
> really do think through theology and come up with the notion it's highly
> probable that there is a God
That would be about the same [ or less ] probability that there are space
aliens out there watching us and waiting to strike, but you don't see many
people worrying about that to much.
and that the overall history of humans trying
> to understand God points to a God that is caring, loving and
compassionate,
> not the Ultimate Boogeyman in the sky.
>
Not sure what you just said.
But either way I do not think that your god is an "Ultimate Boogeyman in the
sky" , cause I can not see the rationality that your god exists to begin
with, much like the rationality that a [as you say ] mythical "boogyman"
exists either.
The only boogyman are us.
> Having said this, I apologize for furthering this thread. You finally
> dangled a carrot before me that I couldn't resist biting.
>
I did not mean to dangle anything, there are millions who think similarly to
me ,something just got in your line of site that you felt the need to shoot
at, I just happen to be in your sites today.
To me it is always an interesting subject, does not mean I "always" want to
talk about it though [ if I ever meet anyone here at a UL event I promiss I
will not bring up religion ]..but when addressed I usually do answer, at
this point I think it is going around in circles, and would really just like
an answer to my original question of prop diameter to created what thrust
etc... If there really was a god I would get a damn answer... [sarc :) ].
> May "To Whom It May Concern" bless you!
I wish someone/thing would step up and " really " bless us..we have already
been cursed by it..
Religion "is" power, religions only exist because of followers, when you
have alot of followers you have strength, and no one religion is going to
give up that strength easily, where do you think it is all going to end up,
people can only keep there head in the sand for so long about this, it will
catch up sooner or later, could be now , could be the next generation, maybe
a bit longer , but it has to catch up sooner or later.
We have faught our "little world wars" with "god" as the
background/justifying driving force, a country here a country there, for
reasons of "colour", reasons of " purity of the race" , "greed", what's
left!, now we have a huge power strugle on our hands, the
technologically/millitarily powerful Christian countries , ie: USofA and
England, the opposition would be the "mass, extemist,kill them all and let
Allah sort it out" powerfull Muslim countries.
It's like the two most poweful crime bosses in the same city, sooner or
later they are gonna face off for all the candy, this face off is
dangerously close to happening, have you ever played a game of chess that
you thought you were winning only to get taken out in three or four very
stratigic moves!!??.
It is not a choice as a human to be male, female,black,white,yellow,red or
blue, but it "is a choice to create , believe, support, push a power above
all those humans",this is where the whole mess starts from.. period ..
You can fear that vengeful god and continue to be part of it and the
historic problem., but I take the position of just trying to do better if I
can in the reality and time that I live in.
Religions are the worst most evil weapons of mass distruction ever created
by man, we are now smart enough to realize that .
Its funny how some here have made me to be their enemy, Al Mills , Lee
Wilcox , and a few other possibles , fact is they are part of and back an
organization that has emence power , power that is and has been wielded over
people threwout history, people that did not want it wielded over them, I am
one of them, another fact is , if I met them on the street and they needed
my help I would give it christian or not, they only prove the wide barrier
that there religions create between basically good people [ I am including
them when I say basically good ].
With religions like this and after thousands of years already, it is going
to be a long haul to world harmony, or most likely just impossible
Thanks Fr. John.
Dave.
> Fr. John
>
>
Mark Browne
Check out:
http://www.wumtia.soton.ac.uk/brochures/propdesign.html
good luck.
PS: I tried to send you (off list) a scanned page from kent's mechanical
enginners' handbook, eleventh edition: 1910. Available on ebay or amazon.
Your mail server blew it off because of the attachement.
This had some housepower-rpm curves from various size fans.
I suspect that newer additions also have the data.
<snip>
Fr. John Elledge
I tried to reply directly to you, but it bounced. I would like to take this
off line, so could you contact me with your e-mail address, rather than post
another "boring religious crap" message here on the u/l list.
Blessings!
John+
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:us6sn64...@corp.supernews.com...
fly mx
of info , do you happen to know if it is a downloadable program from
anywhere, I do not see on that page any links to directly get it .
Thanks for your time.
Dave.
"Mark Browne" <mbr...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:n4Sw9.63005$wG.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
fly mx
Thanks anyway.
Dave.
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:us9djrm...@corp.supernews.com...
fly mx
going around in circles, I pretty well have said all I can say without
repeating myself over and over, honestly it is wearing me down a bit as well
[ more than I can spare ], it is reality and should be tackled head on but
it also is a very negative subject, and I need to put my head in the sand
every once and a while and ignore it as well.
I have heard most opinions [ the well used ones anyway ] on the subject, and
most have heard mine so I think it is time to give it a rest, it's just
bangin the head against the wall now.
If something is really bothering you and you want it off your chest , draft
a mail and hold onto it for later for a possible round two.
Thanks.
Take care.
Dave.
"Fr. John Elledge" <frj...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9E-dnbRGmYP...@comcast.com...
Mark Browne
Try google with proppeller design as keywords
Mark Browne
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:us9gqim...@corp.supernews.com...
Fr. John Elledge
John+
"fly mx" <ye...@right.com> wrote in message
news:us9i682...@corp.supernews.com...