Help w/ TRSA question
William Anson
Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
Mike
> Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
> an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
>
You contact approach control when entering a TRSA. They should hand you
off to the tower when you get close enough. By the way, I didn't even know
there were any TRSAs left in the US.
-Mike Remmel, CFII
Hilton Goldstein
William Anson wrote:
>
> Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
> an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
My guess is that you'd call WILMINGTON APPROACH after getting the ATIS.
BTW: I think the term TRSA is old. We now have Class A, B, C, D, E,
and G. Check out: http://www.airport-wilmington.com/
From AirNav:
ILM - NEW HANOVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
WILMINGTON, NC
AIRPORT INFORMATION CURRENT AS OF 01/30/97
Location
Lat/Long: 34-16-14.210N / 077-54-09.250W
(34.2706139 / 77.9025694)
Elevation: 33 ft. / 10.1 m (surveyed)
Variation: 07W (1985)
From city: 3 miles NE of WILMINGTON, NC
County: NEW HANOVER
Ownership and Use
Ownership: Publicly-owned Use: Open to the public
Owner: NEW HANOVER COUNTY Manager: R.J. KEMP
1740 AIRPORT BLVD 1740 AIRPORT BLVD
WILMINGTON, NC 28405 WILMINGTON, NC 28405
Phone: 910-341-4333 Phone: 910-341-4333
Airport Operations
Sectional chart: CHARLOTTE
Control tower: yes
ARTCC: WASHINGTON CENTER
FSS: RALEIGH FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF]
NOTAMs facility: ILM (NOTAM-D service available)
Attendance: ALL/ALL/ALL
Segmented circle: yes
Airspace analysis: NOT ANALYZED, ARPT IN EXISTENCE IN 1956.
Lights: 0000-0600
ACTVT MALSR RY 35; HIRL RY 17/35; REIL RY 24; & TWY
A
LGTS - CTAF.
Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport)
Landing fee: no
Airline operations: Full FAR Part 139 certification, currently receiving
scheduled air carrier service
PPR 24 HRS FOR UNSKED ACR OPNS WITH MORE THAN 30
PSGR
SEATS CALL AMGR 919-341-4333; ARFF SVC UNAVBL
2359-0600 LCL DLY WITHOUT PPR.
Int'l operations: customs landing rights airport
Airport Communications
CTAF: 119.9
UNICOM: 122.95
ATIS: 121.1
WILMINGTON GROUND: 121.9 [0600-0000]
348.6 [0600-0000]
WILMINGTON TOWER: 119.9 [0600-0000]
239.3 [0600-0000]
WILMINGTON APPROACH: 118.25(164-343) [0600-2400]
135.75(344-163) [0600-2400]
276.3(164-343) [0600-2400]
343.9(344-163) [0600-2400]
WASHINGTON ARTCC APPROACH: 121.4(EAST) [2400-0600]
WILMINGTON DEPARTURE: 118.25(164-343) [0600-2400]
135.75(344-163) [0600-2400]
276.3(164-343) [0600-2400]
343.9(344-163) [0600-2400]
WASHINGTON ARTCC DEPARTURE: 121.4(EAST) [2400-0600]
EMERG: 121.5
243.0
STAGE-III: 118.25(164-343)
276.3(164-343)
STAGE-III IC: 135.75(344-163)
343.9(344-163)
VFR-ADV: 119.9
239.3
APCH/DEP SVC PROVIDED BY WASHINGTON ARTCC ON FREQS 135.5/272.75
(NEW BERN RCAG) WHEN WILMINGTON APCH CTL CLOSED.
Radio aids to navigate to the Airport
VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var
------------------- ----------------------- ------ ---
ILMr203/5.1 WILMINGTON VORTAC 117.00 07W
NDB name Hdg/Dist Freq Var ID
-------------------------- -------- ---- --- -------------------
CAROLINA BEACH 020/10.3 216 04W CLB -.-. .-.. -...
PENDY 174/27.2 379 05W ACZ .- -.-. --..
DIXON 239/28.5 198 08W DIW -.. .. .--
ELIZABETHTOWN 124/34.1 398 07W TGQ - --. --.-
NEW RIVER 229/35.8 356 08W NCA -. -.-. .-
Airport Services
Fuel available: A 100LL
Airframe service: MAJOR
Powerplant service: MAJOR
Bottled oxygen: HIGH/LOW
Bulk oxygen: HIGH/LOW
Airport Operational Statistics
Aircraft based on the field: 96 Aircraft operations per year:
71495
Single engine airplanes: 75 Commercial:
4435
Multi engine airplanes: 15 Air taxi:
13534
Jet airplanes: 6 Local general aviation:
28401
Transient general aviation:
16032
Military:
9093
Runway Information
Runway 06/24
Dimensions: 7999 x 200 ft. / 2438 x 61 m
Surface: asphalt/concrete, in good condition
Runway edge lights: high intensity
RUNWAY 06 RUNWAY 24
Traffic pattern: left left
Runway heading: 055 magnetic, 048 true 235 magnetic,
228 true
Markings: nonprecision instrument nonprecision
instrument
Markings condition: good good
Latitude: 34-15-42.853N 34-16-35.408N
Longitude: 077-54-37.042W 077-53-25.794W
Elevation: 22.0 ft. 20.6 ft.
Threshold crossing height: 60 ft. AGL 55 ft. AGL
Glide path angle: 3.00 degrees 3.00 degrees
Visual slope indicator: 4-box VASI on left 4-box VASI on
left
Runway end identifier lights: yes yes
Displaced threshold: no no
TOUCHDOWN POINT: yes yes
TD elevation: 29.0 ft. 27.0 ft.
Obstructions: NONE NONE
Runway 17/35
Dimensions: 7002 x 150 ft. / 2134 x 46 m
Surface: asphalt, in good condition
Runway edge lights: high intensity
RUNWAY 17 RUNWAY 35
Traffic pattern: left left
Runway heading: 166 magnetic, 159 true 346 magnetic,
339 true
Markings: precision instrument precision
instrument
Markings condition: good good
Latitude: 34-16-52.327N 34-15-47.562N
Longitude: 077-54-32.930W 077-54-03.339W
Elevation: 31.2 ft. 19.3 ft.
Threshold crossing height: 53 ft. AGL
Glide path angle: 3.00 degrees
Visual slope indicator: 4-box VASI on left
RVR equipment: touchdown
Approach lights: MALSR: 1,400
foot
medium
intensity
approach
lighting
system with
runway
alignment
indicator
lights
Runway end identifier lights: yes
Instrument approach: ILS
Displaced threshold: no no
TOUCHDOWN POINT: yes yes
TD elevation: 33.0 ft. 31.0 ft.
Obstructions: NONE NONE
Other Web Pages about this Airport
http://www.airport-wilmington.com/
Please tell us about other pages about ILM or corrections of the page
address shown above.
Services or Facilities at this Airport
Aeronautics
Air Wilmington
ISO Aero Service
Please add to or correct this list of services and facilities at ILM.
Fuel Prices
No fuel price report available. If you know fuel prices at this Airport,
please enter them.
--
Hilton Goldstein.............................hilton@sgi.com
415-933-5254 (phone).....................(fax) 415-390-6159
M/S 1L-945, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd, Mountain View, CA 94043
http://reality.sgi.com/hilton
AAAAA - American Association Against Acronym Abuse
Joseph Pinkelton
William Anson wrote:
>
> Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
> an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
According to AIM paragraph 3-5-7 (in the '96 edition, that is - I keep
my '97 at the airport), "VFR pilots are encouraged to contact radar
approach control....However, participation is voluntary...."
Basically, it's up to you whether you call approach or tower. But why
not go ahead and call approach when you're 25 miles out for radar
services? Incidentally, just west of Wilmington at Florence, S.C. there
is an approach control, but it is not shown graphically on a sectional.
It's sort of like a TRSA, but you wouldn't know by just looking at it.
Happy Flying
Joe Pinkelton, CFI
Winston-Salem, N.C.
Jerry Bransford
Hilton Goldstein wrote:
>
> William Anson wrote:
> >
> > Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
> > an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
>
> My guess is that you'd call WILMINGTON APPROACH after getting the ATIS.
> BTW: I think the term TRSA is old. We now have Class A, B, C, D, E,
> and G.
I believe TRSAs still exist at a few regional airports though they're a
dying term. The last time I flew to Palm Springs, it was still a TRSA.
That's been some time so don't everyone pounce on me if PS is no longer
a TRSA. Guess I should go to my garage and look at my sectional LOL!
Jerry
--
NOTE: To reply, remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address.
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL, C.A.P., KC6TAY
The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
Jerry Bransford
Alexander Perry wrote:
>
> To follow up on Hilton's original comment, I think that participation
> in a TSRA is voluntary, so it's much weaker than a class D. They'd
> _like_ you to give them a call, (like flight following), but you don't
> _have to_ even though you'd be crazy to turn down a free pair of eyes.
No, like a Class C you must explicitly call the TRSA approach control
for permission to enter the TRSA but unlike a Class C, you only need to
hear them acknowledge your call to enter the TRSA. You don't need their
specific permission to enter, you just need to have approach control
acknowledge your call before you can enter the airspace. With a Class
C or B, you need specific permission to enter, not so with a TRSA, just
an acknowledment of your call to them, like could happen if they're
busy.
Ron Natalie
William Anson wrote:
>
> Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
> an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
Call approach control, just like it was a Class B/C, the service is
similar but there is no regulatory requirement to participate.
-Ron
Hilton Goldstein
Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Alexander Perry wrote:
> >
> > To follow up on Hilton's original comment, I think that participation
> > in a TSRA is voluntary, so it's much weaker than a class D. They'd
> > _like_ you to give them a call, (like flight following), but you don't
> > _have to_ even though you'd be crazy to turn down a free pair of eyes.
>
> No, like a Class C you must explicitly call the TRSA approach control
> for permission to enter the TRSA but unlike a Class C, you only need to
> hear them acknowledge your call to enter the TRSA. You don't need their
> specific permission to enter, you just need to have approach control
> acknowledge your call before you can enter the airspace. With a Class
> C or B, you need specific permission to enter, not so with a TRSA, just
> an acknowledment of your call to them, like could happen if they're
> busy.
Class B requires a clearance; i.e. you must hear "...cleared into Class
Bravo". For Class C however, approach only needs to acknowledge your
tail number (assuming they don't also say: "...remain outside Class
Charlie").
Therefore:
You: "Bay Approach, Cessna 123, 8 south San Jose, inbound 29, with
Alpha"
Bay: "Cessna 123 standby"
You have just be given permission to enter Class C. Someone else posted
what the AIM specifies for TRSA.
Hilton
Alexander Perry
To follow up on Hilton's original comment, I think that participation
in a TSRA is voluntary, so it's much weaker than a class D. They'd
_like_ you to give them a call, (like flight following), but you don't
_have to_ even though you'd be crazy to turn down a free pair of eyes.
Hilton implies that you have to take part, kind of like class D.
Jerry Bransford <jer...@cts.comnospam> wrote:
> I believe TRSAs still exist at a few regional airports though they're a
> dying term. The last time I flew to Palm Springs, it was still a TRSA.
My (current) LA sectional still shows it to have a TSRA.
By the way, I notice that the interior circle for PSP's class D area
has a thin grey line around the immediate outside. This is a much
thinner grey line than the one identifying the TSRA. What's it mean?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ Alexander Perry arperry at cts.com /
/ remove the suffix when replying \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
robert burns
when requesting radar service from a trsa contact approach 20 miles out
when arriving and ask the tower for radar service when departing from the
primary airport. if departing a secondary airport within the trsa request
service with departure.
R. Burns CFI
William Anson <ste...@interpath.com> wrote in article
<336F6F...@interpath.com>...
James M. Knox
In article <336F9A...@sgi.com>, Hilton Goldstein <hil...@sgi.com> wrote:
>William Anson wrote:
>>
>> Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
>> an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
>
>My guess is that you'd call WILMINGTON APPROACH after getting the ATIS.
>BTW: I think the term TRSA is old. We now have Class A, B, C, D, E,
>and G. Check out: http://www.airport-wilmington.com/
The term TRSA *is* certainly old (goes back to the original radar coverage
areas), but it is still correct. The TRSA is distinct from any of the above
and while in the TRSA you may be in class D, E, or (maybe) even G airspace.
Basically, when the transition to the lettered airspaces were made, TRSA's
just didn't fit.
jmk
Roy Smith
jer...@cts.comnospam wrote:
> No, like a Class C you must explicitly call the TRSA approach control
> for permission to enter the TRSA but unlike a Class C, you only need to
> hear them acknowledge your call to enter the TRSA.
Jerry - The above is completely wrong. I've been reading your posts for a
long time. You usually do better than this :-)
The rules for operating in the various classes of airspace are contained
in 91.126 through 91.135. There are rules for A, B, C, D, E, and G
airspace. There are no rules in part 91 for a TRSA, because a TRSA is not
a class of airspace. It is simply a description of an area in which radar
services are available (should you desire to use them). Contrast this to
a Class-C, which is an area where radar services are available, and you
are *obliged* to use them. This is described in the AIM, section 3-5-7.
Note that TRSA's have Class-D airspaces at their cores, and you need to
follow the normal Class-D rules to enter that core area, but as far as
regulations are concerned, the TRSA itself has no regulatory meaning.
In any case, you don't need permission to enter a Class-C, just radio
contact. There is a minor nit in that you may be explicitly told to stay
out, "Cessna 12345, GrumpyTown Approach, remain clear of the GrumpyTown
Class C airspace", but no explicit permission is required.
With a Class B, you need more than just "permission", you need a
"clearance". It might be a minor semantic detail, but the magic phrase
you need to hear is "Cleared into the Class B". Just something like,
"Roger, proceed direct LaGuardia, maintain 3500" isn't good enough,
because it doesn't contain the magic word "cleared". If in doubt, query
the controller, "Confirm Cessna 12345 is cleared into the Class B?"
--
Roy Smith <r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu>
New York University School of Medicine
550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
Copyright 1997 Roy Smith
For-profit redistribution prohibited
James M. Knox
In article <337012...@cts.comnospam>,
Jerry Bransford <jer...@cts.comnospam> wrote:
>No, like a Class C you must explicitly call the TRSA approach control
>for permission to enter the TRSA but unlike a Class C, you only need to
>hear them acknowledge your call to enter the TRSA. You don't need their
>specific permission to enter, you just need to have approach control
>acknowledge your call before you can enter the airspace. With a Class
>C or B, you need specific permission to enter, not so with a TRSA, just
>an acknowledment of your call to them, like could happen if they're
>busy.
Sorry, but this is not at all correct. Class B is the old TCA's, and specific
clearance for VFR (but not IFR) flights are required for entry.
Class C is the old ARSA, and the only VFR entry requirement (in terms of COMM,
not considering other required equipment) is "two way radio communications" -
defined usually as having them acknowledge with your call sign. No specific
clearance is required, and in fact they are not supposed to use that
terminology. [They can, however, respond with "Nxxxxx, radar contact, remain
clear of Class C."]
TRSA is "none of the above" -- a holdover from earlier days. They were all
supposed to have gone away by now, but haven't. They are basically an ARSA
(Class C) **without** the requirements. That is, any contact with them is
purely voluntary (but well advised). Note however that in the center of most
TRSA's is a Class D region where radio contact *is* required. This is,
however, separate and distinct from the TRSA itself.
jmk
Jerry Bransford
Hilton Goldstein wrote:
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
> >
> > Alexander Perry wrote:
> > >
> > > in a TSRA is voluntary, so it's much weaker than a class D. They'd
> > > _like_ you to give them a call, (like flight following), but you don't
> > > _have to_ even though you'd be crazy to turn down a free pair of eyes.
> >
> > for permission to enter the TRSA but unlike a Class C, you only need to
> > hear them acknowledge your call to enter the TRSA. You don't need their
> > specific permission to enter, you just need to have approach control
> > acknowledge your call before you can enter the airspace. With a Class
> > C or B, you need specific permission to enter, not so with a TRSA, just
> > an acknowledment of your call to them, like could happen if they're
> > busy.
>
> Bravo". For Class C however, approach only needs to acknowledge your
> tail number (assuming they don't also say: "...remain outside Class
> Charlie").
Yep, I made an error on the Class C entry requirement, you only need to
be "in contact" with ATC prior to gain entry.
Ron Natalie
> BTW: I think the term TRSA is old. We now have Class A, B, C, D, E,
> and G. Check out: http://www.airport-wilmington.com/
Nope TRSA is a valid term. TRSA's are not controlled airspace
in themselves, but just denote a place where there is Terminal
Radar Service available. Typically some criteria for making
this a real Class C isn't there. To the IFR pilot it doesn't
matter as he's just handed off to it like it was any other
ATC facility. For VFR it's purely optional, although it's
semi-mandatory if you're trying to get into the airport in
the center of it at a lot of places (the tower doesn't like
to talk to popups).
-Ron
Rod Farlee
>> No, like a Class C you must explicitly call the TRSA approach control
Negative: a TRSA is a service area, not an airspace area.
TRSAs are Class E airspace (no VFR clearance required), with
a Class D core (control tower). See AIM paragraph 3-5-7.
TRSAs provide the same services as Class C, but they are not.
Radio and transponder are NOT required to enter a TRSA.
- Rod Farlee
DRTermy
In article <19970507210...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
rodf...@aol.com (Rod Farlee) writes:
>
>Negative: a TRSA is a service area, not an airspace area.
>TRSAs are Class E airspace (no VFR clearance required), with
>a Class D core (control tower).
I did a XC to Harrisburg, PA. There airport and the one across the
river from them are both Class D airports. But, they both are inside the
TRSA.(Thats probably why the TRSA is there anyway). I was flying VFR with
no flight following. The first call I made was directly to Capital City
tower(the other airport). Now, had my transponder worked, that would have
been fine. He couldnt get a reply from our transponder, so he then told
me to switch to the approuch frequency.
Hope that helps any.(But probably wont. :) )
DRTermy (Baltimore Airpark 1W2)
(Yup, thats the one right at I-95 with all the trees around it.. :)
"Student Pilot: Just add instructor."
Jerry Bransford
Rod Farlee wrote:
>
> >> No, like a Class C you must explicitly call the TRSA approach control
> >> for permission to enter the TRSA...
>
> TRSAs are Class E airspace (no VFR clearance required), with
>
> TRSAs provide the same services as Class C, but they are not.
> Radio and transponder are NOT required to enter a TRSA.
> - Rod Farlee
Boy I got caught with my pants down on that LOL....Rod is of course
right on on his answer. Mea culpa... I don't fly into my Palm Springs
TRSA often enough to have remembered all it's subtle nuances... I just
call them up and they say "come on down" LOL!
Ken Brown
: Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
Can't speak for Wilmington, but here in the Bay Area, you contact Bay
Approach. They hand you off to the tower as you get closer. I'd guess
that's generally the way it works in a TRSA (but what do I know, I've
only got 14 hours...)
Kevin Ramsdell
> You contact approach control when entering a TRSA. They should hand you
> off to the tower when you get close enough. By the way, I didn't even know
> there were any TRSAs left in the US.
>
> -Mike Remmel, CFII
Mike,
Take a look at the current Atlanta VFR sectional, we still have several
here in Georgia, Macon (MCN), Agusta (AGS) and I think Montgomery, AL
(MGM) are still TRSA's.
Kevin
These are my opinions, and in no way reflect those of my employer
Feathers McGraw
As one who does fly into a TRSA (Palm Springs), the
procedure is to call up Palm Springs Approach (and I usually
pickup Palm Springs ATIS before calling then.) You can get the
correct approach frequency from listening to Palm Springs ATIS
or looking at the LA Sectional.
-John
Ken Brown (ke...@cup.hp.com) wrote:
: : Who do you contact when entering a TRSA for radar service ? The tower or
: : an approach control ? Example: Wilmington, N.C.
:
: Can't speak for Wilmington, but here in the Bay Area, you contact Bay
: Approach. They hand you off to the tower as you get closer. I'd guess
Wendy B G
Hi, Hilton. Check me out on this, but I think that TRSAs are rare, but
still current.
Class B airspace is the old TCA, now indicated by a solid blue line on the
chart.
Class C airspace is the old ARSA, now indicated by a solid magenta line on
the chart.
TRSAs are neither fish nor fowl. They were never incorporated into the
reclassification, so are still called TRSAs (go figure out the
government!). TRSAs are indicated on the chart by a solid, dark gray line.
Oddly, TRSAs are not mentioned at all in the FAA Aviation News reprint
describing the new airspace classification.
I don't know what differentiates a TRSA from an ARSA, or why they bother
to do this.
--Wendy Farlee
Jon Damush
Wendy,
Good question, and you are right, there are only about four in the whole
U.S. I happen to instruct out of John Wayne, Orange County Airport in
Southern California, and we happen to have one nearby in Palm Springs.
Palm Springs is your basic Class D airport, but has Instrument Approaches,
and Radar Service for th airline traffic it recieves. A TRSA is basically
the same as Class C (ARSA) as far as services provided, i.e. flight
following, and separation of Participiating VFR, and all IFR traffic. Your
participation as a VFR pilot in the TRSA is optional, however. As far as
why this is, I'm still not quite sure, and several of my fellow instructor,
and pilot friends seem to give several diverging reasons for it. I'm going
to talk to our Disignated Pilot Examiner soon, and I'll make sure to ask
him for his input, once I get it, I'll let you know the answer. One of the
reasons for it, I have heard, is simply the volume of traffic supported by
the area. Palm Springs is not all that busy by Southern California
standards, and they may not have the necessary manpower or other resources
to make it mandatory for all aircraft. Antoher I have heard, is that
TRSA's do not have specific boundaries assigned to them, such as the Class
C's 5 and 10 mile arcs. Hope this helps.
Wendy B G <wen...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970510214...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Hilton Goldstein
Hi Wendy,
Wendy B G wrote:
>
> Hi, Hilton. Check me out on this, but I think that TRSAs are rare, but
> still current.
> Class B airspace is the old TCA, now indicated by a solid blue line on the
> chart.
> Class C airspace is the old ARSA, now indicated by a solid magenta line on
> the chart.
Your colors are correct, but TCA and ARSA are before my time! :)
Hilton
Tom Roeder
Kevin Ramsdell wrote:
>
> > You contact approach control when entering a TRSA. They should hand you
> > off to the tower when you get close enough. By the way, I didn't even know
> > there were any TRSAs left in the US.
> >
> > -Mike Remmel, CFII
>
> Mike,
>
> Take a look at the current Atlanta VFR sectional, we still have several
> here in Georgia, Macon (MCN), Agusta (AGS) and I think Montgomery, AL
> (MGM) are still TRSA's.
>
> Kevin
>
Also, Great Falls, MT (GTF) is in a TRSA.
Tom
Mark Manes
Tom Roeder wrote:
> Also, Great Falls, MT (GTF) is in a TRSA.
>
> Tom
While TRSA's are considered rare there are 5 in the south central U. S.
Ft Smith, AR (FSM, my home base), Monroe, LA (MLU), Lake Charles, LA
(LGH), Beaumont, TX(BPF) and Gregg County in Kilgore TX (GGG), so they
don't really seem all that rare to me.
MARK
WC5I
N3387R