Dropping objects from aircraft
Tracy R Reed
As I understand it, the FARs allow the dropping of objects from aircraft so
long as they will not hurt anyone or anything.
Some friends of mine are throwing a wild party this Saturday out in the middle
of the desert. Probably about 30 minutes away by 172. I can't attend the party
due to an IFR lesson early in the AM on Sunday but I would like to make my mark
regardless. :) The goal is to fly near the party/campsite Saturday afternoon
and air-drop some party favors. Specifically a couple six-packs of beer (my
friends will be parched sitting in the middle of the desert), some glow sticks,
and who knows what else I can come up with.
The big question is: How to do this safely? It seems possible but there are
some concerns. The first is making sure nobody gets hit with anything. I can
get the ground winds from an airport some distance to the north of the site. I
figure if I drop the objects a few hundred yards downwind from 1000 feet they
can't possibly hit anyone. The area is completely desolate. Second is making
sure nothing fouls the aircraft. The six-packs (I don't drink *at all, ever*
so there won't be any alcohol open during the flight so don't worry about that)
will need parachutes. I figure 6 feet in diameter should do it. They will have
to be packed well to handle the landing. The parachutes can be rolled up
securely and held against the package for the drop and they *should* fall clear
of the aircraft before deploying. 1000 feet should be plenty of altitude for
the chute to unroll and deploy. Smaller, lighter objects such as glowsticks
would be dropped with rolled streamers. The aircraft is a Cessna 172.
Can I get a sanity check?
--
Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org
mike regish
YER NUTZ!!!
Don't even think about it. Some may feel differently, but this sounds to
me like the kind of hot dogging that could easily get you or somebody
else killed.
Maybe glosticks, but sixpacks??? No way Jose.
Just my $.02.
--
mike regish
1953 TriPacer
N3428A
Zack ><>
report-to-come begins to play in my head...
If you must drop something, drop toilet paper. It's more visible, more fun
and a LOT safer...
Zack ><>
CPSEL-IA
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
Michael
so
> long as they will not hurt anyone or anything.
Right. There are people who drop CARS out of airplanes. As long as
you take proper precautions, it should be fine.
> The big question is: How to do this safely? It seems possible but there
are
> some concerns. The first is making sure nobody gets hit with anything. I
can
> get the ground winds from an airport some distance to the north of the
site. I
> figure if I drop the objects a few hundred yards downwind from 1000 feet
they
> can't possibly hit anyone. The area is completely desolate.
Sounds like a plan.
> Second is making
> sure nothing fouls the aircraft. The six-packs (I don't drink *at all,
ever*
> so there won't be any alcohol open during the flight so don't worry about
that)
> will need parachutes. I figure 6 feet in diameter should do it. They will
have
> to be packed well to handle the landing.
Suggestion - buy a styrofoam cooler, a newspaper, and a roll of
duct tape. Pack beer in the cooler, including balled up
newspaper to fill the voids, and tape it up with LOTS of duct
tape.
> The parachutes can be rolled up
> securely and held against the package for the drop and they *should* fall
clear
> of the aircraft before deploying.
Now you're getting into black death, IMO. Parachutes should be
packed. My suggestion - take that round, and pack it into a cheap
pillow case. Use newspaper between folds, and rubber bands to
keep the lines organized. Attach apex of chute to top of pillow case with
heavy
duty thread. Sew a heavy duty nylon strap to the top of the pillow case.
If possible, get the help of an experienced parachute jumper of rigger
for this.
The nylon strap should be as long as it can be without being long enough
to put the pillowcase into the tailfeathers. Secure it to a seat belt
attachment
point. Now open the door, push out the cooler, and watch the static line
deploy the round. Pull pillow case back in.
> 1000 feet should be plenty of altitude for
> the chute to unroll and deploy. Smaller, lighter objects such as
glowsticks
> would be dropped with rolled streamers.
That sounds fine - but use lots (like 20 ft) of crepe paper rolled around
each glowstick.
> Can I get a sanity check?
You're about as sane as I am...
Michael
C J Campbell
Never drop an object except into a marked drop zone. You can have your
friends build fires or use flourescent tape or something to mark the
corners. Never surprise people. Drop things from a safe height. IMHO a safe
height is a minimum of 1000' AGL, and that only after you have had a lot of
practice. Even the military doesn't generally practice any lower than that
(Actual combat and special operations such as LAPES, bombing runs, etc. are
noted as exceptions). Don't drop an object unless you know how long it will
take to get to the ground and how far and in what direction it will drift en
route.
Also, you haven't told us how you plan to get this stuff out the door.
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
Ryan Ferguson
you're clear of your 'audience.' Heh, heh! The only area I'd be concerned with is
the 'chute' for the beer. Someone else suggested putting it in a styrofoam cooler,
sounds like a good idea to me - but make sure it'll fit out the window. I also
assume you're taking a bombardier along with you. One last thought - might want to
coordinate this with someone on the ground ahead of time so they'll be expecting
you. Maybe they can even scrawl a big 'X' in the sand so that everyone knows what
your aiming point is.
Sounds like fun! And be careful as always...
--
Ryan Ferguson
Pitts S-2C N312PS
Twin Comanche 8259Y
My flying pictures are at: http://www.fergworld.com
samiam
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
>
> As I understand it, the FARs allow the dropping of objects from aircraft
so
> long as they will not hurt anyone or anything.
>
> Some friends of mine are throwing a wild party this Saturday out in the
middle
> of the desert. Probably about 30 minutes away by 172. I can't attend the
party
> due to an IFR lesson early in the AM on Sunday but I would like to make my
mark
> regardless. :) The goal is to fly near the party/campsite Saturday
afternoon
> and air-drop some party favors. Specifically a couple six-packs of beer
(my
> friends will be parched sitting in the middle of the desert), some glow
sticks,
> and who knows what else I can come up with.
since it's a "wild party in the middle of the desert" and you're throwing
glowsticks i would say your friends would probably enjoy a couple tabs of e
and bottled water rather than the six packs .. alcohol will dehydrate them
especially if they're already rolling .. tape one e on the water bottle and
put one cracked glowstick in the water bottle and have a little parachute on
each separate one .. have a passenger deploy the "goodies" from heaven .. it
will be like a hop 'n pop .. on a side note who's spinning?
Robert M. Gary
in one piece? Are you trying to rid a chute??
I can remember seeing beer cans explode after being
kicked, I can just imagine the explosion from this.
Bob Gardner
Bob Gardner
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
Andrew Stanley-Jones
> Can I get a sanity check?
Check failed, don't pass go, don't collect $200. ;)
I knew you were insane Tracy, but dropping 6 packs? I'de be really worried
about your horizontal stab. If the bottles didn't fall fast enough it
would do a lot of damage. Kinda like hitting a BIG bird, hopefully you
could keep control of the plane...
I dunno, I'de go for somehting lighter, toilet paper could be fun. ;)
-Andrew
--
Andrew Stanley-Jones | "It's kind of fun to do the impossible."
PP-ASEL, EE, LongEz 87KJ | -- Walt Disney
Tracy R Reed
>This is the kind of thing that gives general aviation a bad reputation.
How so? Only if it is done unsafely but that goes for flying in general. The
folks on the ground would love it. It's not like I'm trying to spin the wheels
on the roof of my girlfriends house or anything.
But if Bob Gardner says it's a bad idea perhaps I won't do it then. It seemed
that it could be done safely, especially light objects on streamers if not
beverages on parachutes.
--
Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org
-
Tracy R Reed
>Check failed, don't pass go, don't collect $200. ;)
Heh.
>I knew you were insane Tracy, but dropping 6 packs? I'de be really worried
>about your horizontal stab. If the bottles didn't fall fast enough it
>would do a lot of damage. Kinda like hitting a BIG bird, hopefully you
>could keep control of the plane...
Airplanes have been dropping 170lb (average) human beings for many years and
they don't hit the stab. When dropped the object *will* fall. Of all of the
things I trust not to fail I trust gravity the most.
>I dunno, I'de go for somehting lighter, toilet paper could be fun. ;)
Yeah, that may be the way to go.
--
Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org
"We blew it -- too big, too slow..." - Bill Gates talking about NT, as noted
by Steven McGeady of Intel during a meeting with Gates
-
Brien K. Meehan
> so there won't be any alcohol open during the flight so don't worry about
that)
> will need parachutes. I figure 6 feet in diameter should do it.
Based on what? How do you figure that?
> They will have
> to be packed well to handle the landing. The parachutes can be rolled up
> securely and held against the package for the drop and they *should* fall
clear
> of the aircraft before deploying. 1000 feet should be plenty of altitude
for
> the chute to unroll and deploy.
You're guessing about something that could very easily kill you. Don't do
that.
A parachute with a six-foot diameter is capable of producing hundreds of
pounds of drag - maybe a thousand or more - at normal cruising speeds.
An unintended deployment of that parachute inside the plane will put that
force on whatever it's connected to or stuck on.
It could have enough force to tear through the door and the side of the
fuselage, or tear part of the wing off, or the tail section. You'd probably
notice a significant performance decrease in your 172 if the tail were
ripped off.
As a skydiver, premature deployments are a huge concern. We wear container
systems that are designed to stay closed until we open them. We check the
closing pins before we get on the plane, and again before we open the door
to exit. Even so, a few accidents happen - there was a Cessna Caravan that
went down in Australia last month due to an unintended reserve deployment.
The pilot and all but one jumper were able to evacuate and land under
canopy. The jumper whose 'chute deployed on the plane didn't survive, and
was still attached to it - and the severed tail section - when it landed.
So please, don't screw around with makeshift parachutes in a perfectly good
airplane.
Jim Fisher
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message > Some
friends of mine are throwing a
The goal is to fly near the party/campsite Saturday afternoon
> and air-drop some party favors. Specifically a couple six-packs of beer
. The six-packs (I don't drink *at all, ever*
> so there won't be any alcohol open during the flight so don't worry about
that)
> will need parachutes. I figure 6 feet in diameter should do it.
NTSB Identification: MIX99LA144 . The docket is stored in the (offline) NTSB
Imaging System.
Accident occurred Saturday, June Something, 2001
Aircraft:Cessna 172H, registration: N-YOUR PLANE HERE
Injuries: 1 Fatal
Synopsis:
The pilot stated he had planned to parachute some beer to friends who were
having a party in the dessert. The first drop went well and the party goers
were appreciative. On the second attempt, the parachute became entangled in
the Cessna's elevator making the plane uncontrollable. The mangled body and
wreckage was found 1 mile from the campsite.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of
this accident as follows.
Total loss of pilots reasoning capacity just prior to incident.
Contributing factor:
No VFR flight plan was filed.
--
Jim Fisher
North Alabama
Cherokee 180
mike regish
object. I've never rigged or made a parachute. I've never had any
training of any kind at any if the above and never tried it anywhere
before hand.
Next, I'm going to jury rig a parachute AND static line for several 6+
lb. missiles to drop a thousand feet and hit "a few hundred yards" from
people." I have no bomb sight. I have no idea at what rate these things
will fall-IF the parachutes even work.
Also, I really suppose all the "wild partiers" will be cold sober until
they get their heaven sent beer and exercising good judgment so that
none of them will be tempted to "get just a little closer" to be the
first to grab a 6 pack. Nah, they wouldn't do that.
Geez, Michael. Sometimes I wonder if you really believe what you're
saying or just want to get a reaction.
The glo-sticks with some streamers-maybe-with prior practice in a remote
area and knowing that whatever method you use won't get tangled up in
your tail.
Michael wrote:
--
Rick Cremer
may include your dropping potentially lethal objects (e.g. 12 ounce cans full
of beer, glow sticks, and whatever else you "can come up with") from an
aircraft, you first review the following:
........FAR 91.15 Dropping objects.
"No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped
from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property.
However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if
reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or
property."
........NTSB Cases in which the pilot's certificate was revoked or suspended
for "dropping objects" in non-compliance with the foregoing regulation. Some
recent examples are:
JANE F. GARVEY, Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration, Complainant,
v. RONALD D. HORTON, Respondent NUMBER: Order EA-4832
BARRY LAMBERT HARRIS, Acting Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration,
Complainant, v. ARNOLD DEL RIO, Respondent NUMBER: Order EA-3617
........Then, I would suggest that you obtain the following forms in case
things don't go as planned:
1. NTSB Form 6120.1/2, Pilot/Operator Aircraft Accident Report
Useful for yourself (if you survive) or your estate (if you don't) in the
event that an accident should occur.
2. NTSB Form 6120.9, Passenger Statement
In case you have a passenger and they survive to make a statement.
3. NTSB Form 6120.11, Statement of Witness
For those on the ground who saw it happen.
4. NASA Aviation Safety Reporting Form NASA ARC 277B
In the event that you find the FAA breathing down your neck following the
event.
5. FAA Advisory Circular 00-46C (FAA policies regarding the Aviation Safety
Reporting System).
In the event #4 happens.
A good aviation attorney because the NASA Report (see items # 4 and 5) won't
help you since a determination will probably be made that the violation was
not inadvertent but rater was deliberate.
My advice is to be careful..............
--
Best Regards
Rick Cremer
FAA Aviation Safety Inspector (Ops & Aws)
ATP DC-9,MD-80/90
Flight Instructor
Ground Instructor
A&P Mechanic
Aircraft Dispatcher
Air Traffic Controller
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
Steve Foley
ahead of time. They'll spend hours looking for it, it won't cost you
anything, and you can always adamantly state that you DID drop it. They just
couldn't find it.
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
Michael
> Yeah. OK. I've never dropped anything from any height from any moving
> object.
Why not? Around here, bomb drop competitions are a routine
feature of flyins. My buddy and I (him dropping and me flying)
took second place on our first attempt. There's just not that
much to dropping something out of a plane.
It's not rocket science. From 300 ft, we were something like
28 ft off the target. Missing by a few hundred yards from 1000
ft is not a big deal.
> I've never rigged or made a parachute. I've never had any
> training of any kind at any if the above and never tried it anywhere
> before hand.
So? Worst case it doesn't open. Then you're out some beer.
You ever see a parachute direct bagged out of a plane? I have,
hundreds of times. By the time it's anywhere close to
inflation, it's so far below the plane it's not a factor.
You know how parachutes get caught on the tail? It's
NOT direct bag static line deployments gone wrong.
It's when someone is climbing around the outside of
the plane and the container opens before he leaves.
> Next, I'm going to jury rig a parachute AND static line for several 6+
> lb. missiles to drop a thousand feet and hit "a few hundred yards" from
> people." I have no bomb sight.
Bomb sight? Are you kidding? Even when we were dropping
students with round reserves, we never had anything that high
tech. And you're talking about a few pounds of beer.
> I have no idea at what rate these things
> will fall-IF the parachutes even work.
What difference does it make? Worst case, you're out some
beer. If you drop a few hundred yards downwind of the
people there's no way to hit them.
> Also, I really suppose all the "wild partiers" will be cold sober until
> they get their heaven sent beer and exercising good judgment so that
> none of them will be tempted to "get just a little closer" to be the
> first to grab a 6 pack. Nah, they wouldn't do that.
If they do, it's their problem. If you as a pilot don't trust them, you
don't do the drop. Simple. Don't forget - it's not that hard
to dodge a beer. Especially if it's a draft :).
> Geez, Michael. Sometimes I wonder if you really believe what you're
> saying or just want to get a reaction.
My experience is that people who go to the trouble of asking
advice about such operations are at least thinking about them,
and this is something that should be easy enough to pull off
for a reasonably proficient pilot with a little help.
My experience with dropping people and objects out of
planes tells me this is not a big deal. I would not hesitate to
do what the poster is suggesting, and I don't see why I
should not offer some helpful advice.
One thing I've noticed - any time anyone tries to do anything
fun, there are always people piping up about how terribly
dangerous it is. If you always listen to those people, you
will never do anything but go around the pattern and get
the occasional hundred dollar hamburger.
Chill out - everything that seems like a big deal to you with
your 150 hours isn't.
Michael
Rodney Tomlinson
"Jim Fisher" <Varsi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:tg5gbhs...@corp.supernews.com...
Rodney Tomlinson
remember the episode where Tom decided to throw articles of clothing out the
window of a small aircraft. A shirt got caught in the horizontal
stabilizor.
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
Cecil E. Chapman
Why do these questions come up? I am totally dumbfounded.... Isn't being
able to fly above the earth with your wings whisking through the cool air
and acheiving, at will, the dream that humankind has had for centuries,
enough????? I don't get it.... :-/
--
Good Flights!
Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL
"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet."
-Cecil Day Lewis
Webpage of my flying adventures: http://www.geocities.com/rhvpilot
Cecil E. Chapman
>No VFR flight plan was filed.
That will do it every time!!!!! <<<<GRIN>>>>
--
Good Flights!
Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL
"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet."
-Cecil Day Lewis
Personal webpage: http://www.geocities.com/rhvpilot
Bob Gardner
competition, all by prearrangement with the folks on the ground is fine by
me. Maybe I read something into your original post that wasn't there...a
surprise drop.
I think I posted my story about one of my students who was starting over
from hour one after having all of his certificates revoked for dumping a
dummy out of a 152. Pretty severe punishment for something intended as a
prank, and I interpreted your plans as being a prank. As I said, maybe I
jumped to the wrong conclusion. All it takes is one person at the party who
thinks that telling the FAA would be a prank.
Bob Gardner
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g5cmq...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
Ron Natalie
Bob Gardner wrote:
> I think I posted my story about one of my students who was starting over
> from hour one after having all of his certificates revoked for dumping a
> dummy out of a 152. Pretty severe punishment for something intended as a
> prank, and I interpreted your plans as being a prank.
Yeah, but the FAA is pretty sensitive about one of their own being
dropped out of an aircraft.
Dylan Smith
>Personal opinion as a low time private pilot...
>
>YER NUTZ!!!
>
>Don't even think about it. Some may feel differently, but this sounds to
>me like the kind of hot dogging that could easily get you or somebody
>else killed.
>
>Maybe glosticks, but sixpacks??? No way Jose.
Bring a bombadier along to do the dropping, and I don't see why it's
something that will get "someone killed". If you drop the package suitably
far from people over barren desert, the risk is very minimal. Don't
forget, skydivers weighing upwards of 150 lbs regularly throw themselves
out of planes, and bomb drop competitions are a feature of many fly-ins.
--
Dylan Smith, Houston, TX
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"
Dylan Smith
>lb. missiles to drop a thousand feet and hit "a few hundred yards" from
>people." I have no bomb sight. I have no idea at what rate these things
>will fall-IF the parachutes even work.
If the parachutes fail, they will fall with an acceleration of roughly
9.8 meters per second/sec in Earth's gravity until the drag of the air
makes a difference.
Dylan Smith
You owe me a new keyboard. Mine's now full of coffee ;-)
(Or in shell script speak: C|N>K)
Jeffrey Eggenberger
least you could fit them out the window.
"Ryan Ferguson" <ry...@fergworld.com> wrote in message
news:3B029544...@fergworld.com...
Dylan Smith
<snippage>
What's the FAA position, or yours at least - on bomb drop contests done
at fly-ins? A lot of the fly-ins around here feature the contests, usually
done by dropping flour bombs. Are they just an invitation for the FAA to
come along and have a violation field-day, or is the FAA not worried?
After all, "suitable precautions" to avoid danger to persons/property on
the ground is a subjective thing. Do you have any guidelines or thoughts
on what "suitable precautions" are?
Eduardo K.
Dylan Smith <usenet...@alioth.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 May 2001 16:53:54 -0400, Ron Natalie <r...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>>Yeah, but the FAA is pretty sensitive about one of their own being
>>dropped out of an aircraft.
>
>You owe me a new keyboard. Mine's now full of coffee ;-)
>
and my monitor is full of droplets :)
>(Or in shell script speak: C|N>K)
>
:?
--
Eduardo Kaftanski | Win95 & Win98: n. 32 bit extensions and a graphical
eka...@webhost.cl | shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system
ICQ: 9396717 | originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by
http://www.webhost.cl | a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
Billy Beck
Ron Natalie <r...@spamcop.net> wrote:
Over in the Whitewater group, I'd call a post like that "The Whip
of The Week".
Nicely cracked, Ron.
Billy
VRWC Fronteer
http://www.mindspring.com/~wjb3/free/
mike regish
Michael wrote:
>
> mike regish <mre...@mediaone.net> wrote
> > Yeah. OK. I've never dropped anything from any height from any moving
> > object.
>
> Why not? Around here, bomb drop competitions are a routine
> feature of flyins. My buddy and I (him dropping and me flying)
> took second place on our first attempt. There's just not that
> much to dropping something out of a plane.
I've been to bomb drops and from 200' we were still occasionally running
for cover.
>
> It's not rocket science. From 300 ft, we were something like
> 28 ft off the target. Missing by a few hundred yards from 1000
> ft is not a big deal.
Right. And that's where the people are.
>
> > I've never rigged or made a parachute. I've never had any
> > training of any kind at any if the above and never tried it anywhere
> > before hand.
>
> So? Worst case it doesn't open. Then you're out some beer.
And the drag you were counting on isn't there and the beer drops on the
people.
>
> You ever see a parachute direct bagged out of a plane? I have,
> hundreds of times. By the time it's anywhere close to
> inflation, it's so far below the plane it's not a factor.
Whether I have or not is irrelevant. I'm guessing the pilot trying this
hasn't either. And I'm guessing he also has never participated in an
organized bomb drop with flour bags.
>
> You know how parachutes get caught on the tail? It's
> NOT direct bag static line deployments gone wrong.
> It's when someone is climbing around the outside of
> the plane and the container opens before he leaves.
>
> > Next, I'm going to jury rig a parachute AND static line for several 6+
> > lb. missiles to drop a thousand feet and hit "a few hundred yards" from
> > people." I have no bomb sight.
>
> Bomb sight? Are you kidding? Even when we were dropping
> students with round reserves, we never had anything that high
> tech. And you're talking about a few pounds of beer.
That have no control over their chute. That without that chute, they'll
be doing about 500 feet per second when they hit. (btw, what materials
are we talking-bed sheets with some twine tied through some holes
punched in the sheets? Silk with nylon rope? Ripstop nylon?) Even the
round chutes were marginally steerable.
>
> > I have no idea at what rate these things
> > will fall-IF the parachutes even work.
>
> What difference does it make? Worst case, you're out some
> beer. If you drop a few hundred yards downwind of the
> people there's no way to hit them.
>
> > Also, I really suppose all the "wild partiers" will be cold sober until
> > they get their heaven sent beer and exercising good judgment so that
> > none of them will be tempted to "get just a little closer" to be the
> > first to grab a 6 pack. Nah, they wouldn't do that.
>
> If they do, it's their problem.
Wanna bet?
> If you as a pilot don't trust them, you
> don't do the drop. Simple. Don't forget - it's not that hard
> to dodge a beer. Especially if it's a draft :).
>
> > Geez, Michael. Sometimes I wonder if you really believe what you're
> > saying or just want to get a reaction.
>
> My experience is that people who go to the trouble of asking
> advice about such operations are at least thinking about them,
> and this is something that should be easy enough to pull off
> for a reasonably proficient pilot with a little help.
>
> My experience with dropping people and objects out of
> planes tells me this is not a big deal. I would not hesitate to
> do what the poster is suggesting, and I don't see why I
> should not offer some helpful advice.
Your experience and the poster's lack of it would seem to make a
significant difference to me.
>
> One thing I've noticed - any time anyone tries to do anything
> fun, there are always people piping up about how terribly
> dangerous it is. If you always listen to those people, you
> will never do anything but go around the pattern and get
> the occasional hundred dollar hamburger.
Hey, I think I'll go out and do some aileron rolls. That would be fun.
>
> Chill out - everything that seems like a big deal to you with
> your 150 hours isn't.
Let's not forget 200 hours hang gliding and 40 in an ultralight. Yeah,
it's still not a whole lot. It's not your thousands, but I'm not as
green as you'd like to think. You ever jump off a mountain Michael? I'm
betting no. You ever fly around in a lawn chair? Again, I'm betting no.
You want to demonstrate the chute design for this guy-that's one thing.
You want to type up ten lines and say "go for it!" that's another. You
want to go out in the open desert and try it out with nobody around
first? That's one thing. You want to experiment for the first time when
there's people, a bunch of drunken people, around when you want to
impress them how? By dropping beer so far away that they have no hope of
finding it? No. You're going to go just a little closer. After all,
who's going to be impressed by beer that's forever over the horizon?
Matthew P. Cummings
<Varsi...@aol.com> wrote:
> Contributing factor:
>
> No VFR flight plan was filed.
Isn't that always the case, I love it!
--
Legal Warning: Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to me - consider this
an official notice.
cummings@TRY-IT&PAYstingray.net - http://www.stingray.net/~cummings
Andrew Stanley-Jones
> Airplanes have been dropping 170lb (average) human beings for many years
> and they don't hit the stab. When dropped the object *will* fall. Of all
> of the things I trust not to fail I trust gravity the most.
Oh I beleive in gravity to, when I drop something every single time it has
fallen down. But, I also beleive in drag.
So the forward motion of the pack of cans slows but the plane does not.
The cans also picks up a vertical component at the very well known rate.
The problem is, if the cans slow quickly (not like a 6 pack is designed to
be low in drag) it may travel backwards with relation to the plane before
it clears the stab. Maybe if you went slow enough....Willing to bet your
life on that?
Now people jump out of this type of plane. I have questioned their sanity
for a long time, but no matter, they seem to live, and the pilot does too.
Last time I saw a person jump from a "172" they got out on the strut then
let go. Can anyone confirm this? Anyone jumped from a 172/152/150 care
to enlighten us?
I really liked Jim Fishers NTSB accident report.
Tracy R Reed
>Different thing entirely. Light objects on streamers, flour bombs in
>competition, all by prearrangement with the folks on the ground is fine by
>me. Maybe I read something into your original post that wasn't there...a
>surprise drop.
No, they will be expecting it.
This thread is a perfect example of what lawyers have done to us.
I've known other people who have done this sort of thing as well. I've been
onboard during flour bombing contests too (contrary to what a previous poster
suggested). It's never been a big deal. I've just never been solely in charge
of coordinating such an activity myself so I thought I would get some pointers.
It seemed a prudent thing to do. Despite what most folks here seem to think, I
am interested in doing this safely, not as a wild gag. I expected only a couple
useful hints or maybe something else to consider, not a spanish inquisition.
But I've been on Usenet for over 10 years now so you would think I would have
learned to expect this sort of thing. Perhaps this group was the wrong place
for such a question (which I copped to in my original post, but I like the
folks here) so I apologize for the thread. But as long as I've been reading
this group I haven't seen the subject come up before so it's not like a FAQ or
anything.
>I think I posted my story about one of my students who was starting over
>from hour one after having all of his certificates revoked for dumping a
>dummy out of a 152. Pretty severe punishment for something intended as a
>prank, and I interpreted your plans as being a prank. As I said, maybe I
>jumped to the wrong conclusion. All it takes is one person at the party who
>thinks that telling the FAA would be a prank.
I won't be dumping any dummies. And it won't be done near the people. And it
will be downwind and farther away than they can run to get under the things. If
they don't find the stuff, fine. I intend to take every precaution to make it
impossible for anything to hit anyone. This isn't a spur of the moment thing.
This stuff will have a high enough ballistic coefficient that it will fall from
the plane and not get instantly whisked back into the horizontal stab. And for
chrissakes this isn't going to be a bunch of drunken and stoned out of their
minds people on the ground! You people (Not you Bob, the other nuts in this
thread) make so many crazy assumptions!
I've read and understood the FAR's, I've manufactured and packed small
parachutes before, I've studied the physics (in a number of physics classes),
majored in Aero Eng., I've done the calculations (ever built a model rocket?
Yes, the physics are the same), I've choreographiced exactly how it is to be
done and I intend to go ahead with at least streamers on glowsticks if not
beverages. I'll let you all know the body count next week. (Assuming I survive
this incredibly perilous mission, as some of you are bound to point out.) I
firmly believe that it *is* possible to carry out such a task safely. History
and physics both support this.
It won't be long now before they litigate against fun of any sort.
Addison Laurent
<tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote:
Lets see. You want to drop explosive, shrapnel-producing projectiles onto
drunk partiers.....
If you're going to do something like that.... at least do it SLIGHTLY
smart, and drop the beer AFTER removing it from its container, removing
the possbility of injury. (or greatly lessening it).
:)
Or, if you're hell-bent on it, at least find the local B-25/26 and
actually set up the Norden and do it right...
> As I understand it, the FARs allow the dropping of objects from aircraft
> so long as they will not hurt anyone or anything.
>
> Some friends of mine are throwing a wild party this Saturday out in the
> middle of the desert. Probably about 30 minutes away by 172. I can't
> attend the party due to an IFR lesson early in the AM on Sunday but I
> would like to make my mark regardless. :) The goal is to fly near the
>
> Can I get a sanity check?
Consider this it. :)
Addison
Ryan Ferguson
> So the forward motion of the pack of cans slows but the plane does not.
The pack won't hit the tail. It'll drop like a concrete block. Eesh. Heh.
:)
> The cans also picks up a vertical component at the very well known rate.
> The problem is, if the cans slow quickly (not like a 6 pack is designed to
> be low in drag) it may travel backwards with relation to the plane before
> it clears the stab. Maybe if you went slow enough....Willing to bet your
> life on that?
Sure! Physics are immutable.
> for a long time, but no matter, they seem to live, and the pilot does too.
> Last time I saw a person jump from a "172" they got out on the strut then
> let go. Can anyone confirm this? Anyone jumped from a 172/152/150 care
> to enlighten us?
I've jumped from a 182 @ 13,500 AGL. Crawled onto the strut and did a
blackflip into the wild blue yonder. Have it on video too. By the time we
passed the tail portion of the plane we were at least 20 feet below it.
Ryan Ferguson
> Yeah, but the FAA is pretty sensitive about one of their own being
> dropped out of an aircraft.
--
Ryan Ferguson
> > fun, there are always people piping up about how terribly
> > dangerous it is. If you always listen to those people, you
> > will never do anything but go around the pattern and get
> > the occasional hundred dollar hamburger.
>
> Hey, I think I'll go out and do some aileron rolls. That would be fun.
Mike, I think he's got a point. I admire and applaud your dedication to safe
flying, but there are ways to safely and legally do things - within a pilot's
personal limitations - that seem inconceivable to student or low-time pilots.
I think it's best to know one's limitations and absolutely, positively adhere
to them. If something like this isn't for you, by all means... don't do it.
But we needn't discount the use of the airplane for fun and safe activities
with proper planning and diligent attention to safety. People have dropped all
kinds of objects from light aircraft over the years -- everything from
newspapers, to food, to medical supplies, to packages... the list goes on.
And by the way... a Cessna 172 will do a nice, pretty aileron roll. (Now, a
slow roll on the other hand... hmm... ) Seems unthinkable to you, yes, and
I'm definitely not recommending you go try it, but it's easily within the
limitations of the aircraft.
mike regish
sanity check. I guess you really only wanted approval. I mentioned your
plans to my wife. She just shook her head and said "Sounds like
something some 20 year old college student would do." Just out of
curiosity, how close was she?
Tell you what. You've gotten various opinions here. You can pick and
choose which ones you pay attention to and which ones are from the fun
hating nuts (suppose I should say Fun Nazis, but that would fulfill the
requirements for a flame war-or did I just now?). Just for kicks, make
up a detailed plan and call your local FSDO. Make sure you mention the
beer. I'm really curious as to what their input might be. Seriously. If
they say it's cool, then I'll gladly eat my words.
Otherwise, I'll stand by my original "Yer nutz."
Tracy R Reed wrote:
>
> Bob Gardner <bob...@home.com> wrote:
> >Different thing entirely. Light objects on streamers, flour bombs in
> >competition, all by prearrangement with the folks on the ground is fine by
> >me. Maybe I read something into your original post that wasn't there...a
> >surprise drop.
Six packs ain't light.
>
> No, they will be expecting it.
>
> This thread is a perfect example of what lawyers have done to us.
>
> --
> Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org
--
Ryan Ferguson
Very well said! I couldn't agree more.
Good luck. I will be standing by with the Dirty Dozen ready to medevac you out of
enemy territory if you auger in. Bring a smoke pack so our rescue chopper can find
you! :)
--
Ryan Ferguson
Pitts S-2C N312PS
Twin Comanche 8259Y
My flying pictures are at: http://www.fergworld.com
mike regish
worth it? What are those scariest 2 words a pilot can say? "Watch this."
Thinking about it and doing it can be very different. I guess I spent
too much time and effort getting here to risk it all on showboating. I
gained a lot of experience hang gliding and ultralighting. You know-the
kind that comes from bad judgement.
So, have they actually loaded the plane with all this paraphenalia? Have
they actually gone up and opened the window in flight? Have they
actually tried getting all the junk out of the back seat, or where ever
they are keeping it. Who's the bombardier. Is he a pilot. Is he going to
sit on the yoke when he's reaching for bundles? Is he going to stomp on
a pedal? Is he going to be aware of how much wind is just outside that
window ready to rip his package out of his hands? Is he going to hit the
flap handle or catch a string on the mixture and yank it? I think at
least a rehearsal or 2 and a practice drop when nobody's around would be
a good idea.
Tracy already had his mind made up. He didn't want a sanity check. He
wanted approval.
I guess just like flying around in 700' ceilings, this is one of those
things I'll say won't be me. I paid too much for my ticket and took way
too many years getting here to be able to afford it to lose it over
something so juvenile.
Fly over and take some pictures. Bet they'll be a lot more impressed.
I know.
>
> --
> Ryan Ferguson
> Pitts S-2C N312PS
> Twin Comanche 8259Y
> My flying pictures are at: http://www.fergworld.com
--
Dudley Henriques
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g5cmq...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
> Bob Gardner <bob...@home.com> wrote:
> >This is the kind of thing that gives general aviation a bad reputation.
>
> How so? Only if it is done unsafely but that goes for flying in general.
The
> folks on the ground would love it. It's not like I'm trying to spin the
wheels
> on the roof of my girlfriends house or anything.
>
> But if Bob Gardner says it's a bad idea perhaps I won't do it then. It
seemed
> that it could be done safely, especially light objects on streamers if not
> beverages on parachutes.
Just a few thoughts here Tracy. It's not the legal aspect that bothers me,
it's the safety factor. Did I understand you are flying a 172? These things
all sound good on paper, but they can go very wrong in the actual event.
Dropping a six pack from a 172 with a home made chute can become a real
problem faster than you can blink an eye. Even if you slow the airplane
down, you are still dealing with one hell of a relative wind at release. I
assume you plan to use one of the windows as the exit route for the beer?
These home made chutes have been known to come undone very fast in that kind
of situation. You could very well end up with the thing tangled across your
horizontal stabilizer and elevator. A six pack isn't a feather. It could
really do some major damage if this happens.
I wouldn't do it . There are just too many variables in this equation.
--
Dudley A. Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI/Retired
John Galban
of lowering the payload in a bucket with a rope, while the pilot does
turns around a point.
I've never actually seen this done, but I know a few guys who
claimed to have delivered mail in Alaska using this method (using
Supercubs).
John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
mike regish
but I've heard of it too.
But again, this sounds like something for an experienced pilot to try
and only with practice first.
Seems like the payload would want to swing straight out from the belly,
or hang point, not stay in the center of the turn. Anybody seen this
done? Have any explanations on how the package stays in the middle? Drag
on the rope maybe?
--
Andrew Puddifer
Regards, Andrew.
Gordon Evans
regularly throw themselves out of planes, but not at 100 feet (the higher
the better, but not less than 2000 AGL). The chute is securely packed so it
can't deploy into the tailfeathers, but even then, accidents happen. As
recently as last month, an Aussie skydive plane was brought down by a
premature parachute deployment. The skydiver and the chute wrapped the tail
and actually ripped it from the plane, killing the skydiver. The only
reason the pilot survived was the altitude he had to work with. Even so, he
bailed at 500 feet (after all the other skydivers) and barely got an open
canopy before touching down.
In summary, I would not drop a parachute from a plane under any circumstance
unless the packing was professional and the altitude was sufficient.
Other than that, it sounds like lots 'o fun...
Dylan Smith <dy...@alioth.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9g5qj6...@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk...
Tim Bengtson
> Seems like the payload would want to swing straight out from the belly,
> or hang point, not stay in the center of the turn. Anybody seen this
> done? Have any explanations on how the package stays in the middle? Drag
> on the rope maybe?
>
> John Galban wrote:
> >
> > I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Alaskan bush pilot technique
> > of lowering the payload in a bucket with a rope, while the pilot does
> > turns around a point.
> >
> > I've never actually seen this done, but I know a few guys who
> > claimed to have delivered mail in Alaska using this method (using
> > Supercubs).
Wait a minute. Do you guys think that because the pilot is flying turns
around a point the bucket will naturally drop to that point and just sit
there? You *know* that can't work.
Figure it out. If the bucket was hanging from the ceiling of the plane
(yes, inside the plane), and the turns were coordinated, it would hang
straight "down" toward the floor of the plane. If it was hanging
outside the plane, it would still try to hang the same way, except that
it would be affected by wind drag. You could never get it to hang
inside the radius of the turn.
Tim
Dudley Henriques
"Tim Bengtson" <tim...@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:3B03D3...@us.ibm.com...
You might want to put that physics book of yours away for just a bit Tim and
then change "around" a point to "on" a point. Then do some research on
pivotal altitude geometry. After you do this, check back in the early
twenties for a reference to a pilot on a movie crew using this technique to
pass information back and forth with the director while on location in rough
terrain.
You might be surprised!! :-)
Brien K. Meehan
> useful hints or maybe something else to consider, not a spanish
inquisition.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
> I've read and understood the FAR's, I've manufactured and packed small
> parachutes before,
I'm surprised to hear that, because you mentioned rolling up the canopy and
holding on to it tightly before dropping it. You should know that you won't
be able to hold on to it if it catches air before you're ready.
Your experience should tell you that the canopy belongs in a closed system
until it's ready to deploy, and that should be after it's out of the plane,
below and behind the tail.
Here's a useful hint: Use your parachute manufacturing expertise to
construct a little d-bag on a static line. and keep the canopy in that.
Make the static line long enough to delay deployment until the cargo is
clear of the plane. Have a strong, sharp knife with you and be ready to cut
through the static line if the bag locks.
From what I've read of the thread, the biggest REAL safety concern (as
opposed to litigation concern) is deployment of the canopy in a way that
would interfere with the integrity of the plane. If you're not convinced
it's a potential problem, have a look at this:
http://www.dropzone.com/safety/emergencies/emergency_aircraft.shtml
... and go to the section called "Open parachute in the airplane."
Dylan Smith
>Hey, it's your ticket. Do what you want with it. You said you wanted a
>sanity check. I guess you really only wanted approval. I mentioned your
>plans to my wife. She just shook her head and said "Sounds like
>something some 20 year old college student would do." Just out of
>curiosity, how close was she?
I dunno. From the last message, it looks like Tracey has planned it, knows
the FARs and knows the physics. I personally don't expect there to be
any trouble. There is a risk involved, of course, but it's up to
Tracy to decide whether the risk/reward relationship is worth it.
Since the people on the ground know about it, and Tracy has said that
the package will be dropped far from people/property on the ground,
I can't see a FAR violation either (the FARs specifically state that
objects may be dropped so long as they don't pose an undue hazard to
people/property on the ground)
It has been an interesting debate, anyway.
Gene Whitt
I tried it using a jug of water and heavy twine. Didn't
know the twine ball was in two pieces. Dropped the
jug before I could find out if it worked.
Gene Whitt
Dylan Smith
<asj-...@junk.cban.com> wrote:
>So the forward motion of the pack of cans slows but the plane does not.
>The cans also picks up a vertical component at the very well known rate.
>The problem is, if the cans slow quickly (not like a 6 pack is designed to
>be low in drag) it may travel backwards with relation to the plane before
>it clears the stab. Maybe if you went slow enough....Willing to bet your
>life on that?
I've thrown things out of planes with far higher drag/weight ratio
than what Tracy was proposing. They've never hit the horizontal stab.
Let's do the workings.
It's at least 3 meters from the door to the tail of a C172.
Even if you dropped the cans from the underside of the wings (rather
than the bottom of the door - the bottom of the door is LOWER than the
tail), the cans would have to decelerate very very quickly. The wing
is a meter at most above the tail.
This means the cans must decelerate at a rate somewhat greater than
the acceleration of gravity. About 3 times greater. And that's if
Tracy's bombadier drops them from the bottom of the wing, and not from
the bottom of the door. Now maybe if the cans were made of feathers,
they'd hit the stab, or maybe if they could somehow violate the laws
of physics...
The biggest problem is likely to be getting a C172's door open that wide
in flight. For the purposes of aerial photography, our Houston Gulf group
has tried to open a door on a C172 wide enough to get a good shot out of.
We weren't very successful.
peterpock
"mike regish" <mre...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:3AFD8AB0...@mediaone.net...
> I guess just like flying around in 700' ceilings, this is one of those
> things I'll say won't be me. I paid too much for my ticket and took way
> too many years getting here to be able to afford it to lose it over
> something so juvenile.
'700 ceilings?? .. i've flown around in 200' ceilings .. granted it was in a
beaver on floats but it was just way too cool .. '50 above the trees .. '50
below the deck heading up to some little inlet on the coast .. float
training (50 hour comprehensive course) with an actual charter company is
the way to go .. i like that low altitude stuff .. we took a different route
back (5500') and my instructor (the chief pilot) said he hadn't been that
high since '92 .. it could just be my personality type though .. i enjoy
taking the beaver into those tiny little lakes where you have one shot at
landing and that's it .. dragging it in over the trees .. oh happy days .. i
have a lesson today too .. gotta go ..
Tim Bengtson
>
> You're analysis doesn't go far enough down the rope. It
> works great. The wind drag slows its motion, causing it to
> fall behind the plane and below it. The bucket chases the
> plane, but the plane's made a 180 degree turn and is flying
> back towards it. The bucket will sit in the center of the
> flight circle and spin. The pilot adjusts altitude to bring
> the bucket to ground level.
Ah. I stand corrected. So the rope must be long enough that the pull on
it from the plane is practically vertical, and the bucket must be
massive enough that it stays more-or-less stationary given the forces
applied to it by the rope.
As a practical matter, what sort of rope lengths are we talking about
here?
Tim
Michael
> I've been to bomb drops and from 200' we were still occasionally running
> for cover.
Too bad - sounds like sloppy flying. Nothing will protect you
if you fly sloppy - just a matter of time. I've seen a bomb drop
where the minimum altitude was supposed to be 100 ft. The
bomb was dropped at 50 ft, the airplane stalled, and the pilot
put it on the runway - hard. Does that make bomb drops
unsafe?
> And the drag you were counting on isn't there and the beer drops on the
> people.
Not if you are downwind of them to begin with.
> Whether I have or not is irrelevant. I'm guessing the pilot trying this
> hasn't either. And I'm guessing he also has never participated in an
> organized bomb drop with flour bags.
Don't guess - you're likely to be wrong.
> That have no control over their chute. That without that chute, they'll
> be doing about 500 feet per second when they hit. (btw, what materials
> are we talking-bed sheets with some twine tied through some holes
> punched in the sheets? Silk with nylon rope? Ripstop nylon?) Even the
> round chutes were marginally steerable.
Never jump an unsteerable round reserve? I have. They used to
be standard. Good spotting puts you in the peas. It's not that
hard.
> Let's not forget 200 hours hang gliding and 40 in an ultralight. Yeah,
> it's still not a whole lot. It's not your thousands
I don't have thoudands. It doesn't take thousands. This is NOT
a major undertaking we're talking about here.
> but I'm not as
> green as you'd like to think. You ever jump off a mountain Michael? I'm
> betting no.
Bad bet. I've jumped off a bridge into a river canyon, and I've
jumped off TV antennas.
> You ever fly around in a lawn chair? Again, I'm betting no.
Real bad bet. I have. It had a delta wing over it, and an
engine in back.
Look, this isn't about me. It's not even about you. You don't feel
like you can perform the operation safely? Don't do it. But you
don't know enough about the operation, or the person planning to
perform it, to have an informed opinion about the safety of it.
Michael
mike regish
Michael wrote:
>
> Look, this isn't about me. It's not even about you. You don't feel
> like you can perform the operation safely? Don't do it. But you
> don't know enough about the operation, or the person planning to
> perform it, to have an informed opinion about the safety of it.
>
> Michael
--
Andrew Stanley-Jones
> This means the cans must decelerate at a rate somewhat greater than
> the acceleration of gravity. About 3 times greater. And that's if
> Tracy's bombadier drops them from the bottom of the wing, and not from
> the bottom of the door. Now maybe if the cans were made of feathers,
> they'd hit the stab, or maybe if they could somehow violate the laws
> of physics...
I've never tried to open the door on a 172, given it's a good size even at
60 knots I assume it would be pretty hard to open. So I assumed dropping
it through the window. in another thread somewhere it was stated that if
you undid the restraining arm the slip stream would hold the window wide
open. (ie, against the fuselage on the top)
Now let's say he adds a parachute, would that be enough drag? How quickly
will it open? I've seen parachute cargo drops done in a military Hercules.
Those come out the back pretty horizontal. Of course this is a complete
different beast.
I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just stating a thing I'de be worried
about. Maybe it's not a big deal, I dunno. I'de just be hesitant to bet
my life in it.
What ever you do, let us know! I'de love to hear the outcome, preferably
not via an NTSB report. ;)
Richard Tilton
"Eduardo K." wrote:
> In article <slrn9g5rjt...@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk>,
> Dylan Smith <usenet...@alioth.net> wrote:
> >On Wed, 16 May 2001 16:53:54 -0400, Ron Natalie <r...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>Yeah, but the FAA is pretty sensitive about one of their own being
> >>dropped out of an aircraft.
> >
> >You owe me a new keyboard. Mine's now full of coffee ;-)
> >
>
> and my monitor is full of droplets :)
>
> >(Or in shell script speak: C|N>K)
> >
>
> :?
>
> --
> Eduardo Kaftanski | Win95 & Win98: n. 32 bit extensions and a graphical
> eka...@webhost.cl | shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system
> ICQ: 9396717 | originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by
> http://www.webhost.cl | a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
C|N>K
coffee piped through nose output to keyboard !!!
--
Richard
PP-ASEL
Jim Fisher
"Todd Pattist" <pat...@DONTSPAMME.snet.net> wrote in message
> You're analysis doesn't go far enough down the rope. It
> works great. The wind drag slows its motion, causing it to
> fall behind the plane and below it. The bucket chases the
> plane, but the plane's made a 180 degree turn and is flying
> back towards it. The bucket will sit in the center of the
> flight circle and spin. The pilot adjusts altitude to bring
> the bucket to ground level.
That is just too cool!
I wish I had a reason to try this . . .
Hey! Anyone need a beer drop up there in Pinckneyville? You buy, I'll fly!
--
Jim Fisher
North Alabama
Cherokee 180
Eduardo K.
Ryan Ferguson <ry...@fergworld.com> wrote:
>
>I've jumped from a 182 @ 13,500 AGL. Crawled onto the strut and did a
>blackflip into the wild blue yonder. Have it on video too. By the time we
>passed the tail portion of the plane we were at least 20 feet below it.
>
oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i would LOVE to do that....
i definitedly have the risk-adict gene... much to my
SO dislike...
time to get some parachuting instruction...
--
Eduardo Kaftanski | Like coming home, And you don't know where you've been
eka...@webhost.cl | Like black coffee, Like nicotine
ICQ: 9396717 | I need your love
http://www.webhost.cl | U2, Hawkmoon 269
Brien K. Meehan
> blackflip into the wild blue yonder. Have it on video too. By the time
we
> passed the tail portion of the plane we were at least 20 feet below it.
I knew a guy who stood backwards on the step (which is over the wheel) of a
182, and jumped up and aft, trying to grab (or touch) the horizontal
stabilizer. He couldn't do it, even when he tried.
Tina Marie
with about an 18-inch diameter round. It's just a round piece of fabric,
with a round piece of mesh sewn to it. In the center of the mesh, there's
one line that attaches to the plastic jumper. Very simple, no lines to
tangle, and you could make them a bit bigger and put one on each can
of beer.
In article <tg893jn...@news.supernews.com>,
Brien K. Meehan <br...@networkgenius.com> wrote:
>I knew a guy who stood backwards on the step (which is over the wheel) of a
>182, and jumped up and aft, trying to grab (or touch) the horizontal
>stabilizer. He couldn't do it, even when he tried.
People have hit stabilizers, though. Skydive Dallas had a student
jump up and go over the horizontal stab on a Caravan. He broke a
leg and left a nice dent on the stab in the process.
I've seen some wierd things. At a drop zone that no longer exists,
a bunch of guys tied a rope around the bottom of the fusalage (in
a loop - out the right door, under the belly, in the left door,
and across the floor, just in front of the main gear), then attached
a longer rope with a surfboard on the end. They went to altitude,
slid down the rope, 'surfed' the wake of the 182, and when they fell
off, they'd freefall down and open. At the same drop zome, some
particularly limber jumpers flipped upside down and hung off the
leading edge of the wing by their feet.
Oh, and many years ago, I saw a series of pictures of a 150 aerobat,
inverted. The jumper walked along the underside of the wing (now
on top, of course), and jumped off the wingtip. Then there's
the video of a guy sitting on top of a Twin Otter, leaning back
against the vertical stab, shooting video as the pilots aileron roll
the plane. I've never seen an airplane so reluctant to roll.
Some people have wider envelopes then others.
Tina Marie
--
If variety is the spice of life, your life is like a bowl of salsa.
-- mreynolds
http://www.neosoft.com/~tina
Ryan Ferguson
BARR DOUG
And if it is Beer, you definitely shouldn't (Bad example, heavy, obviously
illegal if open in the cockpit etc).
Based on what the original poster proposed, DON'T DO IT.
Yes there are legal, safe ways to drop things from aircraft, but there is a
lot that could go wrong. Flour bags are pretty safe. But you need a bombadier.
Opening the door, in flight causes sweaters and such to fly out, could catch
on the rear stabilizer....etc. And if it hits someone, could injure them...
Probably some things I haven't thought of
Like I'm some expert.
Steve Foley
stated that it is illegal to open alcohol in the cockpit? The only reference
I could find in the FAR's stated that alcohol had to be served by a
crewmember (or something like that).
"BARR DOUG" <ba...@Colorado.EDU> wrote in message
news:9e1c52$b9a$1...@peabody.colorado.edu...
peterpock
"Michael" <cre...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:SXSM6.1560$%L.342...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> mike regish <mre...@mediaone.net> wrote
> > but I'm not as
> > green as you'd like to think. You ever jump off a mountain Michael? I'm
> > betting no.
>
> Bad bet. I've jumped off a bridge into a river canyon, and I've
> jumped off TV antennas.
oh .. that's the only reason i started skydiving was eventually to base jump
.. but that's a long time coming and all this flying isn't really leaving me
much time ..
Greg Kainz
"John Galban" <jga...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b038e1f...@news.earthlink.net...
You can simulate this at home with a string or rope ... twirl it around and
the tag end eventually drops straight down...
Skydiver
the wheel of a C182 and tried to jump for the tail of the aircraft.
It is not possible. Even though you jump towards the back of the
plane, you still have the forward momentum of the aircraft. It is no
different than trying the same thing on the ground. It isn't possible
to hit the tail before you fall below it. Now if a parachute escapes
while you are on the step, then that is entirely a different story.
People drop food, medical supplies, guns, live animals, etc., etc.,
etc. from airplanes every single day. It can be done safely. Find a
qualified parachute rigger and ask for some assistance. I'm sure
there are many riggers out there who would enjoy the opportunity to
assist in this task. Look in your yellow pages for the nearest drop
zone and ask for their rigger.
You might also want to check with your local mechanic about flying
with the doors off. This will make it much easier to get your cargo
out the door.
Kenny G.
dy...@vexed.alioth.net (Dylan Smith) wrote in message news:<slrn9g7q3u...@vexed.alioth.net>...
Bob Chilcoat
The most important thing if you do this, apart from "fly the airplane", is
that the parachute must open well after leaving. See
http://users.erols.com/viewptmd/Dad5.html for what can happen if it opens
too soon. I won't comment on whether or not this is a good idea.
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways - "Always spare landings for every
takeoff")
----------
"Tracy R Reed" <tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org...
> Not exactly student-related but I like this forum. :)
>
> As I understand it, the FARs allow the dropping of objects from aircraft
so
> long as they will not hurt anyone or anything.
>
> Some friends of mine are throwing a wild party this Saturday out in the
middle
> of the desert. Probably about 30 minutes away by 172. I can't attend the
party
> due to an IFR lesson early in the AM on Sunday but I would like to make my
mark
> regardless. :) The goal is to fly near the party/campsite Saturday
afternoon
> and air-drop some party favors. Specifically a couple six-packs of beer
(my
> friends will be parched sitting in the middle of the desert), some glow
sticks,
> and who knows what else I can come up with.
>
> The big question is: How to do this safely? It seems possible but there
are
> some concerns. The first is making sure nobody gets hit with anything. I
can
> get the ground winds from an airport some distance to the north of the
site. I
> figure if I drop the objects a few hundred yards downwind from 1000 feet
they
> can't possibly hit anyone. The area is completely desolate. Second is
making
> sure nothing fouls the aircraft. The six-packs (I don't drink *at all,
ever*
> so there won't be any alcohol open during the flight so don't worry about
that)
> will need parachutes. I figure 6 feet in diameter should do it. They will
have
> to be packed well to handle the landing. The parachutes can be rolled up
> securely and held against the package for the drop and they *should* fall
clear
> of the aircraft before deploying. 1000 feet should be plenty of altitude
for
> the chute to unroll and deploy. Smaller, lighter objects such as
glowsticks
> would be dropped with rolled streamers. The aircraft is a Cessna 172.
>
> Can I get a sanity check?
>
> --
> Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org
mike regish
Skydiver wrote:
>
> While skydiving I have personally stood on a step mounted just above
> the wheel of a C182 and tried to jump for the tail of the aircraft.
> It is not possible. Even though you jump towards the back of the
> plane, you still have the forward momentum of the aircraft. It is no
> different than trying the same thing on the ground. It isn't possible
> to hit the tail before you fall below it. Now if a parachute escapes
> while you are on the step, then that is entirely a different story.
> People drop food, medical supplies, guns, live animals, etc., etc.,
> etc. from airplanes every single day. It can be done safely. Find a
> qualified parachute rigger and ask for some assistance. I'm sure
> there are many riggers out there who would enjoy the opportunity to
> assist in this task. Look in your yellow pages for the nearest drop
> zone and ask for their rigger.
> You might also want to check with your local mechanic about flying
> with the doors off. This will make it much easier to get your cargo
> out the door.
>
> Kenny G.
--
Gordon Evans
developed by Nate Saint, missionary pilot to South America in the 1950's.
He and his buddy Jim Elliot used to lower gifts to the natives this way.
They also used a telephone in the bucket for ground to air communications.
I read a biography on Nate that included some of his original drawings of
how it works. He has some other aviation inventions,too, like a redundant
fuel delivery system that works on gravity and was made from non-aviation
spare parts...
Rick Cremer
It's not.
--
Best Regards
Rick Cremer
FAA Aviation Safety Inspector (Ops & Aws)
ATP DC-9,MD-80/90
Flight Instructor
Ground Instructor
A&P Mechanic
Aircraft Dispatcher
Air Traffic Controller
"Steve Foley" <steve.DE...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:%hXM6.4852$oi1.3...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Tim Bengtson
>
> This method not only works, it has been around for a while. It was
> developed by Nate Saint, missionary pilot to South America in the 1950's.
> He and his buddy Jim Elliot used to lower gifts to the natives this way.
Yes, I've heard. Mike and John, forgive me for ever doubting you. My
analysis presumed a short rope (by comparison to the turn diameter)
while the technique in question requires a long one.
Tim
mike regish
mike regish wrote:
>
> Personal opinion as a low time private pilot...
>
> YER NUTZ!!!
>
> Don't even think about it. Some may feel differently, but this sounds to
> me like the kind of hot dogging that could easily get you or somebody
> else killed.
>
> Maybe glosticks, but sixpacks??? No way Jose.
>
> Just my $.02.
Tim Helton
> So...where's the drop report? Here it is Monday already...
I'm curious too... Let's hear it!
tim
PP-ASEL
Tracy R Reed
>holding on to it tightly before dropping it. You should know that you won't
>be able to hold on to it if it catches air before you're ready.
We're talking relatively small parachutes here. A premature deployment would be
inconvenient but wouldn't bring down the plane. However, a parachute peaked,
rolled, and wrapped, won't come unrolled or unwrapped until it has fallen for a
while.
>Here's a useful hint: Use your parachute manufacturing expertise to
>construct a little d-bag on a static line. and keep the canopy in that.
For large chutes this is definitely the way to go. I'm only looking at
relatively light objects which won't need very big chutes.
>would interfere with the integrity of the plane. If you're not convinced
>it's a potential problem, have a look at this:
I am convinced that with chutes of that size it is a potential problem. For
this small size it's not a big deal.
For those still following this thread:
The drop was to have happened on Saturday but although the weather in the
dropzone was perfect my base was totally clouded in with low overcast so I had
to cancel. At least I did get in an excellent instrument training flight early
in the morning with some actual obtained in climbing and descending through the
overcast. By the end of the day the clouds had cleared but there wasn't enough
daylight remaining to make it. This is an annual event so I'll let you know how
it goes next year. :)
Tracy R Reed
The drop was cancelled due to bad weather. The drop zone was clear (being on
the other side of the mountains) but the departure area has been covered with
marine layer all week, usually not clearing up until very late in the day if it
clears up at all. You'll hear from me again next year if I don't find another
reason to do it sooner. :)
Russell Kent
containers in motor vehicles" to apply? That's the only imaginable case, and
I think its unlikely anyway.
Russell Kent
John Galban
<ke...@titania.tye.sc.ti.com> wrote:
>Would it be possible for (sloppily-written) state laws restricting "open
>containers in motor vehicles" to apply? That's the only imaginable case, and
>I think its unlikely anyway.
>
Doubtful. If it did apply, then every airliner flying over the
state in question would be in violation.
John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
Michael Horowitz
Oh, I like that! Filter the beer first! Good <G>- Mike
"Addison Laurent" <add...@usa.fishing.net> wrote:
>In article <slrn9g4cos...@freeside.ultraviolet.org>, "Tracy R Reed"
><tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org> wrote:
>
>Lets see. You want to drop explosive, shrapnel-producing projectiles onto
>drunk partiers.....
>
>
>If you're going to do something like that.... at least do it SLIGHTLY
>smart, and drop the beer AFTER removing it from its container, removing
>the possbility of injury. (or greatly lessening it).
>
>:)
>
>Or, if you're hell-bent on it, at least find the local B-25/26 and
>actually set up the Norden and do it right...
>
>
>
>> As I understand it, the FARs allow the dropping of objects from aircraft
>> so long as they will not hurt anyone or anything.
>>
>> Some friends of mine are throwing a wild party this Saturday out in the
>> middle of the desert. Probably about 30 minutes away by 172. I can't
>> attend the party due to an IFR lesson early in the AM on Sunday but I
>> would like to make my mark regardless. :) The goal is to fly near the
>>
>> Can I get a sanity check?
>
>Consider this it. :)
>
>Addison