First solo woo hoo!!!!!! but got some dissapointed by CFI
Bantuu
Hi guys,
Finally, after 7 months and 36 hours, it did happen. Today! Today was the day
when I moved the thing up and I brought it down. All alone! I had never had
this big smily face that l had after landing and taxing back to the FBO.
Hey...after all l am a pilot now!
But:( as soon as l got back, my CFI got me really pissed! Here is how
everything went and l think l did a pretty good job up there.
I did some touch & go's with my CFI (as usual) and then finally we taxied back
and tied up the airplane. My CFI called up the tower and ask them if it was
okay for a student to fly first solo. And tower said yeah. So, my CFI gives me
the keys, (doesn't sign off my logbook, said he will when l come back) and asks
me for 3 touch & go's. I get up in the plane, tuned into atis and then make a
call to the tower and they let me taxi to runway 19(my favorite side). Anyways,
everything is going smoothy and perfectly. l call up the tower again and
finally there l am! rolling on the runway!
Ohh boy, this plane is too light now and climbing too fast. And l am so happy
and very confident about everything. Tower ask me to follow the the katana
ahead of me and clear for touch & go. Perfect! Turn crosswind, turn downwind,
base and then final. Everything looks just so perfect. What a smooth landing!
And second touch and go (here's were everything got messed up), tower ask me
to follow the same katana ahead of me cause he is also doing closed pattern.
Anyways, l follow him, l turn downwind, base and then for final. l was only
about 2 miles away from the runway and then tower calls me up and asks me to
make 360 right turn because there's a bonaza coming right from the northeast.
And when l have only accomplished about half of 360, tower calls me up again
and asks me to fly as l was if on right downwind and continue until advised
cause there are 3 other aircraft landing.
Anyways, l am "far" from the airport and have no idea where l am! Tower calls
me up, asks me to make left, make right and....so on. And then finally ask me
to fly towards the airport now. What the hell? Where is my damn checkpoint and
l have no idea what dirrection to fly too. (Got really confuse there and messed
up my heading). I tell the tower I am lost and then they would give me the
heading. And then finally after few minutes l am only few miles away from the
airport (tower said) but... I don't see it. Anyhow, then tower gives me the
another heading and fly towards east. I got it! I know where I am right now and
how to get back. I call up the tower and give my position, before tower tells
me what heading to fly to, and then simply get back at the airport. Again,
pretty nice smooth landing, and was asked to make full stop this time by the
tower cause there were like 13 people in the pattern doing touch and go's.
I thank tower for thier help and tower congrats me and says l did a pretty good
job up there and l, too, think that l did a good job up there and l never got
panic or anything. Anyways, l taxi back to the parking area and shut down the
engine. I had a great smile on my face though.
But as soon as l opened the door, my CFI goes "if you had not come back, the
FAA would have fucked me up". And I was like, what the hell? And then instead
of congratulating me he started shooting out at me for what l did wrong. Damn,
you should have flown this heading, flown that heading......and whole bunch of
stuff before l say even a one single word. Comeon, I am a student and this is
my first solo, what do you expect from me? I haven't done only small cross
contries and you should be glad that even if l got lost, l am back and landed
very safely. And then after about 1 hour talk, he signs off my logbook. He
should have done before I go solo right? And even when he signed off, he goes
"you want me to sign your logbook?" and then finally, he congrats me like doing
me a favor. But he'd just PISSED me off and got me in a bad mood. I was like
what else this man can do besides discouraging someone.
Anyways, l don't want you guys to get really bored if l keep on going. Are
their any CFIs out their who show thier attitute like that? My CFI is out of my
list for sure. It was like a dream came true for me and it was just dashed by
my CFI who helped me to reach there (thanks man! if you are reading). I think
all the CFIs should keep in mind that they were student too. I understand, that
there's a lot of stress when their students go solo, but hey... I don't think
we deserve that kind of attitute if we come back safely and get some greeting
by the tower.
Thankyou very much if anyone is still reading:)
"No sky is too high, no fall is too tall"
Chuck Forsberg
Sometimes I wonder if my CFI put the tower up to it.
12 in the pattern? A few more and you'll count the downwinds
as XCs :-)
Some airports are devilishly hard to spot from pattern altitude
until you are fairly close. Stealth airports, yes? I've given
up on trying to spot HIO when returning from some directions;
I fly to nearby landmarks and let the airport find itself.
I do feel it the moral responsibility of every civilian CFI to
make a big deal celebrating each student's first solo. Like
one's first love and first kiss (first intern?) we only have
one first solo to live, let's bleed about it properly.
--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX PP-ASEL/HP Skylane N2469R c...@omen.COM
Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software www.omen.com
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, RZ, SZ, Pro-YAM, ZCOMM, GSZ, and DSZ
TeleGodzilla BBS: 503-617-1698 FTP: ftp.cs.pdx.edu pub/zmodem
POB 4681 Portland OR 97208 503-614-0430 FAX:503-629-0665
St Stephen Ames
NG) and immediately started looking for a new CFI...Congrats on the
solo, we love you!...
Till the next time,
St Stephen Ames - 11.4hrs dual 1.8hrs solo 78 landings!
http://www.stephenames.com
"When my abilities meet my desire & commitment, I will be one hell of a
pilot!" - S. Ames
Personal flying site:
http://www.stephenames.com/flying/flying.html
luc...@metrowerks.com
ban...@aol.com (Bantuu) wrote:
Congrats on your solo Bantuu! You handled the situation more calmly than I
would have, I'll just say that! 8). I did my first solo at an uncontrolled
field, which was good for me, since I had my hands full just controlling the
airplane. You did it all the while following instructions from the tower,
which is still a task for me after 40 hours 8))). I agree that your CFI
probably should have been more encouraging - mine treated me to a deadstick
landing and cut out my shirttails after my first solo 8). As Bob B. always
says (and he will for you too, he's lurking here somewhere 8)), welcome to
the post-solo group!
Lucien S.
student pilot
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Eric W. Seelig
First, Congratulations on the first solo! Having had mine
recently, I know how you feel.
Second, sounds like your CFI screwed up. In order for a student
to solo, you have to carry your logbook, and (endorsed!) medical/
student certificate. I'm SURE he knew that, and the only reason
I can think of that he didn't sign you off BEFORE you flew is
laziness (probably forgot to bring a pen to the plane!)
It sounds to me like you did a great job (my first few solo
landings were big ol' bouncers!) and made good decisions (like
calling the tower and telling them you were lost...good move!)
If the FAA had "fucked him up" it would have been no one's
fault but his own!
Good luck with the rest of your training!
Eric
CWright704
Keep in mind that your CFI is effectively your employee. You hired him to
develop your skills and teach you to fly. You did the right thing to contact
the tower, and tell them you needed assistance. You recovered well, and above
all, didn't panic. Quite frankly, your CFI should be proud that you did the
right thing. If he is so stupid not to realize that he taught you some good
skills, that is his problem, not yours. I would "fire" him, and get a CFI who
can support your, in a constructive manner, not a destructive manner.
20+ years flying
jga...@hotmail.com
cwrig...@aol.com (CWright704) wrote:
<snip>
> 20+ years flying
>
>
You must be getting tired by now :-)))
John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
Bernhard Klug
Don't let your CFI spoil your good feelings about it! You have every right
to feel happy and be proud of yourself.
My CFI told me that the first solo was the most important event in a pilots
life and a party was mandatory.
GOOD JOB.
Many happy landings,
Bernie
--
CPL-AMEL-IFR PA-23-250, C150 & Quad City Challenger II (in progress)
***** stop dreaming - start flying *****
e-mail: Bernha...@online.de
www.online.de/home/BernhardKlug
"The sun is shining, we should fly!" In memory of Hank Sr.
Bantuu schrieb in Nachricht <19981008014923...@ng12.aol.com>...
>
>Hi guys,
>Finally, after 7 months and 36 hours, it did happen. Today! Today was the
day
>when I moved the thing up and I brought it down.
>snip, snip, snip<
Dale Larsen
Congratulations! We all know the feeling. . .
Your CFI should have signed your logbook first. His misplaced agression was
totally uncalled for.
Andrew McCoy
eventful then yours. I would think you CFI would have been happy with
the way you handled the added activity to an already stressful event.
Hope he was just having a bad day and that it didn't ruin your
enjoyment. I still get a silly smile just thinking about mine.
All the best,
Andrew McCoy
Bantuu wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> Finally, after 7 months and 36 hours, it did happen. Today! Today was the day
Katharine Crowell
though. Sometimes it's an advantage to have some time logged before getting
cut loose! Congratulations!
Hopefully your CFI got the towers side of the situation?
Katharine
Bantuu wrote in message <19981008014923...@ng12.aol.com>...
>
>Hi guys,
>Finally, after 7 months and 36 hours, it did happen. Today! Today was the
day
>when I moved the thing up and I brought it down. All alone! I had never had
>this big smily face that l had after landing and taxing back to the FBO.
>Hey...after all l am a pilot now!
Monte Porche
signing my logbook, since he was no longer my instructor.
Then, I'd have called up the tower, and asked them to
contact the nearest FAA personell to come discuss why
a student was allowed to solo without his logbook properly
signed off....
But, that's just me...congrats on the solo, and I hope your
new instructor treats you right.
Monte
P.S. To reply via email, remove the ".dot" from my email address.
Bluestr...@webtv.net
robert a barker
>
>
>Hi guys,
>Finally, after 7 months and 36 hours, it did happen. Today! Today was
the day
>when I moved the thing up and I brought it down. All alone! I had never
had
>
>
>
>Bantuu: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the fast growing post solo
group!!! I feel like the others,your CFI really was not fair to you.
Constructive criticism is good when needed.Royal chewing out by someone
who is supposed to be teaching is not good. I think he acted that way due
to his own mistakes and not yours.He sent you out illegally by not
signing your log book AND your student certificate.I think you did a very
good job to maintain your composure after all the running around the
tower made you do.
Best of luck and keep posting
Bob Barker
James
Firstly let me congratulate you on your first solo!!!!! You did the
right thing!!! You asked for help before you got yourself into a real
mess! Most pilots I know would much rather take a risk than loose a bit
of their over inflated egos. Your CFI was wayyyyy out of line. I'm not
sure about the signing of logbooks, in England this isn't done until
after the flight, but the flight has to be authorised in the aircraft
log by the CFI before the flight.
If you want my advise, which you probably don't, go tell your CFI to
piss off and find your self a nice friendly one!
James.
John Prickett
>
> Bantuu,
>
> First, Congratulations on the first solo! Having had mine
> recently, I know how you feel.
>
> Second, sounds like your CFI screwed up. In order for a student
> to solo, you have to carry your logbook, and (endorsed!) medical/
> student certificate. I'm SURE he knew that, and the only reason
> I can think of that he didn't sign you off BEFORE you flew is
> laziness (probably forgot to bring a pen to the plane!)
>
i echo the congratulations to bantuu!
i would like to respond, however, to the second paragraph. i
am a cfi, and my usual practice is _not_ to sign off the log
book and medical before the solo. and it's not because i'm
lazy, there is a specific purpose. it goes along with the
spontaneity of the event. i _don't_ tell my students that
they will solo 'next thursday' or anything like that, because
#1 it puts more pressure on them, and #2, if they have a bad
day next thursday and screw up, i want the option of _not_
soloing them without destroying their self-esteem. so, when
a student has covered all the stuff in 61.87, and their
landings start to get a little consistent, i usually drop a
hint like "you'd better start wearing old shirts". i also
specifically give them their pre-solo written on a day with
another lesson topic -- and tell them that they will _not_
solo that day, but let's get this milestone out of the way.
that gives me the flexibility to see -- is it a nice enough
day? (not too much x-wind) are they doing o.k. today? i
usually know in advance when i am _likely_ to solo a student,
but sometimes have to revise it for one or the other of the
above reasons.
similarly, when the above conditions are met, and they show
me 3 good ones in a row (and a go-around, to make sure they
haven't forgotten how to do it), i don't want to take the
extra time to do all the endorsements. i jump out, give
them a last minute 'word of wisdom', and turn on the handheld
com.
it's partly about trust -- sure, any one of my students could
report me to the faa for not signing their logbook ahead of
time. but they have been trusting me, so far, with their
lives. so i trust them not to do that. (i also trust them
not to bend my airplane, which is what they are soloing in most
of the time.) i don't think i would solo a student i
thought i couldn't trust.
mho,
john
btw, i'm not defending the instructor's reaction to bantuu's
'problem' on the solo. but i don't think too much should be
made of the endorsement after the fact.
ps -- i soloed in 1978, and i lost sight of the airport on
my 3rd trip around the patch. it was a controlled field,
and was mvfr. i sorta thought my instructor shouldn't have
soloed me that day on account of the weather, but i was also
'chomping at the bit', because he had been on vacation for
two weeks, and the other instructors i flew with while he
was gone wouldn't/couldn't solo me because _they_ had not
given me the instruction required by 61.87. (see 61.195(d))
so, the biggest lesson i learned that day was to not let
emotional desires overrule head knowledge in making sound
decisions -- a step towards judgment.
jp
--
'something clever.'
john.p...@amd.com
LFransson
Congratulations, Bantuu! First solos are always a stressful but exciting
experience. There's nothing quite like a little adventure to make it that much
more memorable!
There's a whole lot of discussion going on here about sending students out on
their first solo without having the endorsements done. It's written in the
FARs - which we all know is Aviation's Gospel Truth - that a student must have
the appropriate endorsements in the log book and on the student pilot
certificate before flying solo. I believe it's irresponsible for any CFI to
send a student out unendorsed. It doesn't take that long to do, and if we can
ignore that one little regulation, which others shall we ignore? Beyond that,
though, the student must also know that the endorsements are required, and thus
THE STUDENT is even more culpable than the CFI for flying without the proper
endorsements. Sure, students are students, but does that mean that they are
incapable of verifying that all of their ducks (not that many ducks, really)
are in a row and should therefore be absolved of all responsibility to do so?
If, after a checkride, the DE said, "Oh, you don't need this temporary
certificate. Go ahead and take a couple trips around the pattern. I'll give
you the temporary when you get back," would anyone argue that this was proper?
Is there any difference between this an an unendorsed solo student? I don't
think so.
It has always bugged me the way many CFIs seem to fear FAA certificate action
following a miscue on the part of one of their students. The FAA has entrusted
CFIs with the power to set people free to fly on their own without any other
supervision but that of the instructor. We all know this is a HUGE
responsibility. If we take it seriously, and ensure that our students have
received the proper training before sending them off solo (especially if we
have good records), there should be no reason to fear anything from anyone for
any of the number of misadventures we've read about from students in this
newsgroup. (I know, anyone can sue for any reason, but that's a different
topic, and that's what liability insurance is for.) Any instructor who attacks
a student for a simple mistake for fear of action by the FAA should review his
or her philosophy and methods of instruction and adjust accordingly.
FWIW, I have witnessed one case of an instructor's CFI certificate being either
suspended or revoked after a student failed a checkride. It wasn't just the
student's mistakes that brought the certificate action, though. It was the
incredibly sloppy documentation of the student's training on the part of the
instructor - improper or missing endorsements, log book entries, etc. - that
led to the certificate action.
A little more than my $0.02. I think that was worth at least $0.50.
Larry L. Fransson - ATP (CE-500), CFMEII
Macon, Georgia
"Pilots are just plane people with a different air about them."
luc...@metrowerks.com
lfra...@aol.com (LFransson) wrote:
I do want to respond to this, since John is my instructor and it appears your
post may be partly directed at him, although I recognize it's certainly
primarily intended as a general contribution to the topic of endorsements 8).
IMHO, there's a significant difference between his practice of not endorsing
before the first solo and a consistent pattern of ignoring endorsements or
other regulations in general. Indeed, he did completely surprise me with my
first solo on 7/25/98 and I did make my three trips around the patch at T74
without the endorsement in my log book. However, everything else about his
practices vis-a-vis the first solo I have found to be spot on. I am in
complete agreement with his reasoning behind his methods (which he has
already related - I won't repeat it here). I will just say that it works and
works well (it did for me, at least - I'm still alive and flying, as are the
other 9 privates and 5 instruments he's graduated! 8)).
In any case, he and I both have been otherwise very careful to insure that I
have the appropriate, complete logbook endorsements in hand when required and
that we're operating within the FAR's. For my cross countries, we insured my
logbook had been appropriately endorsed. We have made sure that all the other
logbook/medical endorsements are present (for the solo practice, airplane
category/make and model, etc.). There are 9 endorsements in my logbook at
present, and they're all in order.
Again, I agree with your point about following the regs. However, I'll repeat
my statement that there's a world of difference between John's practice in
soloing students and a consistent pattern of slovenliness with the FAR's.
He's been very thorough in this respect (see the thread on spin training and
parachutes of about a month ago for an example 8)). This is why I hired him
and why I've elected to complete my training with him. That's why I trust
that, when I climb into that plane, I am confident that I have whatever
knowledge I need to fly safely (and I'm still here and havn't bent a bird yet
8)).
Finally, I agree that getting chewed out by your CFI is probably grounds for
dismissal, or, at least, grounds for looking for something better. Although I
never was chewed out, I've had brief encounters with two of the most
incompetent idiots you can imagine (at a flight school in Austin that shall
remain nameless); the two in question were so impoverished in their methods
and communcations skills that I wonder whether they've ever graduated a
student. There are indeed a lot of morons out there, instructors and students
alike, but I'm glad to say that my instructor and I do not number among them
(and I know you're not accusing us of this; I'm just letting off some steam
8))).
Lucien S.
student pilot.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
St Stephen Ames
suppose to sit there anxiously squirming with nervous anticipation while
your CFI endorsed you logbook in the slowest fashion possible and
afterwards you were done cut the back of your shirt right off you,
endorse IT and hang it up for all to see!...I think some of the good old
tradition and grandeur of the first solo was lost there...At my FBO, the
lounging pilots held up numbers when you came back as if you were in the
Olympics...I got all 10's!...I look forward to getting my ticket and
getting the back of my shirt back, I am also proud to see it hanging at
the airport everytime I go in there...Plenty of CFI's out there bro,
pick another!...JMH.02
HLAviation
>okay for a student to fly first solo. And tower said yeah. So, my CFI gives
>me
>the keys, (doesn't sign off my logbook, said he will when l come back) and
>asks
>me for 3 touch & go's.
This isn't right. He is trying to shirk the responsibility, he is not
confident in his ability to teach
.>"if you had not come back, the
>FAA would have fucked me up".
This statement proves it.
>. Comeon, I am a student and this is
>my first solo
3 landings preferably without breaking the airplane, although if you lived and
learned(crashing is one hell of a teacher, and you dont always die, just fly
the plane all the way till it stops), I'd accept that.
>Tower calls
>me up, asks me to make left, make right and....so on. And then finally ask me
>to fly towards the airport now.
This was an incourtious oversight on the part of the controllers. They were
busy and didn't remember that this is your first solo, in a couple of more
flights theyll do that and you'll know where you are and how to get back.
This being your first solo though, when they started giving you vectors they
should have followed it all the way through putting you on extended final.
Maybe they did it on purpose, I seem to remember a long diversion on my first
solo at LGB
.
>instead
>of congratulating me he started shooting out at me for what l did wrong.
>Damn,
>you should have flown this heading, flown that heading......and whole bunch
>of
>stuff before l say even a one single word.
This is unacceptabl behavior from a CFI.
>Are
>their any CFIs out their who show thier attitute like that? My CFI is out of
>my
>list for sure.
Yes there are but not very many. Get rid of him, you deserve better, and there
are much better. He's to worried about getting a blotch on his record, it
might keep him out of an airline job, and thts the only reason he's
instructing, either that or he's just naturally an uptight a$$#@!&. Either way
get rid of him.
jga...@hotmail.com
John Prickett <john.p...@amd.com> wrote:
John,
I can see your reasoning for this practice, but I think you are leaving
yourself open for a violation if something (God forbid!) should happen to one
of your students on their first solo. I can pretty much guarantee you that
the FAA would not be very interested in your reason for violating this
particular reg. Especially if you told them that you violated it on purpose.
Again, while I don't think a scribble on some paper will make any difference
in your students' performance, the FAA doesn't generally see it that way.
Fly Safe,
John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
Xrevol...@earthlink.net
wall be hind the counter is a collection of shirt backs that have been
decorated and personalized by the staff.
remove "Xs" to reply via email.
Dave Mould
> > i would like to respond, however, to the second paragraph. i
> > am a cfi, and my usual practice is _not_ to sign off the log
> > book and medical before the solo. ... it goes along with the
> > spontaneity of the event.
>
> I can see your reasoning for this practice, but I think you are leaving
> yourself open for a violation if something (God forbid!) should happen to one
> of your students on their first solo.
How about if the CFI takes the documents with him back to the office and signs
them *while* the student is doing the solo? ISTM that this would fulfill both
of the above.
Dave Mould
Snowbird
> Finally, after 7 months and 36 hours, it did happen.
Congratulations!
[Story of nice landings complicated by ATC instructions and marred
by irate CFI deleted]
Just my $0.02, sounds to me as though your CFI lacked confidence
that you could really handle some of the complications you
encountered, so when he saw/heard you encounter them, he got
really scared. Then he took it out on you. If you think of it
in that light maybe it will help not take it too personally.
I hope it hasn't damped your dream too much. Good luck!
Snowbird
St Stephen Ames
HLAviation wrote:
> I used to have my students tape thier SPC's in the front cover of thier log
> books tha way they always had them along. On the ride when I figured I'd solo
> them I'd just grab thier book and start looking at it, flipping through, just
> tormenting them providing a distraction, not saying anything or even looking
> out while they do a couple of T&G's all the time wondering (sometimes drooling
> at the same time:) if I'm gonna sign em off. It's kinda fun in a sadistic sort
> of way (never said I was an angel did I?). This allows for spontinaity and
> legal compliance at the same time. BTW, sending the student flying without a
> signed off cert. is not very nice as you sent him off into a violation as
> HE/SHE is resposible for hving that with them on solo flights. The feds will
> probably only give the student a little hard time over it, you as the
> instructor however depending on the Fed involved may get a pretty severe
> repremand.
--
HLAviation
Pocat
with you is when you make a solo cross country flight as a student. You can
let that student solo and endorse his book at the same time. Does you
student carry the log book on every pre-solo flight? If so just take it with
you when you step out of the plane to let them solo. Endorse it before they
make it on to the active runway. Your covered they are not any more
surprised about the the solo.
another question I have. I've not checked on this at all, just a thought.
Isn't the solo endorsement for unsupervised solo's??? Which would make a
supervised solo legal before an endorsement. I really don't know. Please
feel free to correct me ;)
--
TTYL
The Pocat...
PP-ASEL
po...@alpha1.net
http://www.alpha1.net/~pocat
http://www.alpha1.net/~pocat/friends.htm
http://freedomstarr.com/?wa4582529
jga...@hotmail.com wrote in message <6vpeq8$g0o$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <361E61...@amd.com>,
> John Prickett <john.p...@amd.com> wrote:
>
>> i would like to respond, however, to the second paragraph. i
>> am a cfi, and my usual practice is _not_ to sign off the log
> I can see your reasoning for this practice, but I think you are leaving
>yourself open for a violation if something (God forbid!) should happen to
one
Chuck Kalupa
Allright, I bite on this, what is the shirt thing all about? did I miss some
"right of passage" in my flying training?
Ron Natalie
>
> Correct me If I'm wrong , but the only time you have to have your log book
> with you is when you make a solo cross country flight as a student.
Student pilots usually have their log books on every dual flight,
even if it's not strictly required because the instruction has
to be logged anyway. If you've got a flight school, perhaps
they have a nice file inside to keep them, but if you're a
random instructor, the student's probably got it on him.
> I've not checked on this at all, just a thought.
> Isn't the solo endorsement for unsupervised solo's???
You're wrong on this. The FAA doesn't make any distinction
between supervised and unsupervised solos. The certificate
must be endorsed for each make and model before any solo.
The logbook also needs to be endorsed.
Of course, it's harder to spring solos on students now with
the stupid written exam requirement.
up_in_...@my-dejanews.com
Chuck Kalupa <ch...@lawran.com> wrote:
> Allright, I bite on this, what is the shirt thing all about? did I miss some
> "right of passage" in my flying training?
>
I get the impression that this is not an international tradition, but it's
the norm around here. I think it is supposed to signify 'cutting your tail
feathers' or something like that....although if you're a bird, I would think
that would be a bad thing. Whatever the case, when you get close to solo
time, you need to find a nice, but expendable shirt because you won't be
wearing it again.
Every time I see my shirt tail hanging on the wall there are the FBO, I
re-live in my mind that first run around the pattern without the dead weight.
Michael Rogers
PP-ASEL
Pocat
--
TTYL
The Pocat...
PP-ASEL
po...@alpha1.net
http://www.alpha1.net/~pocat
http://www.alpha1.net/~pocat/friends.htm
http://freedomstarr.com/?wa4582529
Ron Natalie wrote in message <36220EA6...@sensor.com>...
>Pocat wrote:
>>
>> Correct me If I'm wrong , but the only time you have to have your log
book
>> with you is when you make a solo cross country flight as a student.
>
>Student pilots usually have their log books on every dual flight,
>even if it's not strictly required because the instruction has
>to be logged anyway. If you've got a flight school, perhaps
>they have a nice file inside to keep them, but if you're a
>random instructor, the student's probably got it on him.
okay , I was taught by a random instructor. I just kept my log book in my
pickup until after each flight where he would log the instruction. Same on
my solo day. We fly he gets out I fly. After the plane was put away I get
my log book and he endorsed. I just thought it was the accepted practice. I
just remember my CFI telling me the only time I had to have my log book with
me in the airplane was on a solo cross country.
>
>> I've not checked on this at all, just a thought.
>> Isn't the solo endorsement for unsupervised solo's???
>
>You're wrong on this. The FAA doesn't make any distinction
>between supervised and unsupervised solos. The certificate
>must be endorsed for each make and model before any solo.
>The logbook also needs to be endorsed.
>
Thanks, like I said I had not and still have not looked for anything on the
subject. Was just a spur of the moment thought as I was typing.
>Of course, it's harder to spring solos on students now with
>the stupid written exam requirement.
The day I solo'd my CFI called to tell me not to show up at the airport
because they had a couple of planes blown off the runway trying to make
landings in the high cross winds of the day. I showed up and he said we
could still fly some duel since I had driven all the way to the airport and
that I would not solo in the wind conditions. He even discouraged a low time
pilot from renting a plane in the windy conditions. After that we got in the
150 did 2 touch and go's and a full stop. He got out told me to do three
more and put the plane away. I have since learned that I like to have some
wind when I fly. I have the most trouble on days with out any wind (not very
many of those here) When I took my check ride we had 18 knot gusting 28 knot
cross winds. I think that was my best flight . My DE was happy enough to
give me a white slip.
Jerome Kaidor
The CFI probably thought it was a little thing, sending a student off on
solo without signoffs. Just a couple times round the patch, no big deal,
right? Then, listening to the tower on the radio, he came to realize just
how big a deal it could be.
Guy must have had a real panic attack, sitting there listening to his
unsigned-off student wander off. Visions of FAA interrogations must have
flown through his head. He probably saw his whole flying career flying
away....
His postsolo agression was probably a reflection of his own panic. I
bet he never does _that_ again!
- Jerry Kaidor ( je...@tr2.com )
Miasmal
<up_in_...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>In article <6vt1kv$p...@newsops.execpc.com>,
> Chuck Kalupa <ch...@lawran.com> wrote:
>
>> Allright, I bite on this, what is the shirt thing all about? did I miss some
>> "right of passage" in my flying training?
>>
>
>I get the impression that this is not an international tradition, but it's
>the norm around here. I think it is supposed to signify 'cutting your tail
>feathers' or something like that....although if you're a bird, I would think
>that would be a bad thing. Whatever the case, when you get close to solo
>time, you need to find a nice, but expendable shirt because you won't be
>wearing it again.
>
>Every time I see my shirt tail hanging on the wall there are the FBO, I
>re-live in my mind that first run around the pattern without the dead weight.
>
>Michael Rogers
>PP-ASEL
When I solo'ed, I got the back of my shirt cut. (I had a feeling that day
that I would solo, so I wore an 'expendable shirt' ;-) My instructor drew
artwork on it and gave it back to me - it's framed and hanging on my wall now.
I'll have it scanned and put it on a website soon.
--
ô J. Kutsuzawa / *miasmal@*nic.com / '94 Columbia Univ. ME ł+á
ő XFGATB(same b-day as Piper) soloed student N07 Cessna 172 ł-ŕ
miasmal+pabraw of Epic
luc...@metrowerks.com
The way I heard it, this goes back to the days before intercoms, where the
student sat in the front seat, and the instructor sat in the back (you were
learning in a Stearman or some such back in "olden times"). Whenever the
instructor wanted the student to make a turn, he indicated this by pulling on
the appropriate side of the student's shirt. I.e., if the instructor wanted
to the student to turn left, he pulled on the left shirttail and similarly
for right turns. Once the student had soloed, the shirttails were no longer
needed, of course. So, the tale goes, it became customary for the instructor
to clip out the student's shirttails after solo... This was the version given
me by my instructor. Anyone out there ever heard any different variations on
this tale?
Lucien S.
student pilot.
> In article <6vt1kv$p...@newsops.execpc.com>,
> Chuck Kalupa <ch...@lawran.com> wrote:
>
> > Allright, I bite on this, what is the shirt thing all about? did I miss some
> > "right of passage" in my flying training?
> >
>
> I get the impression that this is not an international tradition, but it's
> the norm around here. I think it is supposed to signify 'cutting your tail
> feathers' or something like that....although if you're a bird, I would think
> that would be a bad thing. Whatever the case, when you get close to solo
> time, you need to find a nice, but expendable shirt because you won't be
> wearing it again.
>
> Every time I see my shirt tail hanging on the wall there are the FBO, I
> re-live in my mind that first run around the pattern without the dead weight.
>
> Michael Rogers
> PP-ASEL
>
HLAviation
>Allright, I bite on this, what is the shirt thing all about? did I miss some
>> "right of passage" in my flying training?
>I get the impression that this is not an international tradition, but it's
>the norm around here.
Every FBO Ive been to has some shirt backs hanging somewhere.
Michael Lomker
<john.p...@amd.com> wrote:
>extra time to do all the endorsements. i jump out, give
>them a last minute 'word of wisdom', and turn on the handheld
>com.
I understand your reasoning, and it is thoughtful that you'd be
concerned about your student's self-esteem.
However, government institutions (such as the FAA) have very little
sense of humor. I watched my CFI sign off a friend for a
cross-country the moment before he stepped out of the plane. It
didn't seem like that much trouble. You just need to get your
students in the habit of carrying the logbook with them.
Michael Lomker
>re-live in my mind that first run around the pattern without the dead weight.
My FBO simply takes a picture with the student in front of the plane.
Boy, are we missing out!
Sam
have you solo when the airport was so busy? 13? Or is that unavoidable
at your field?
Sam