flaps check in preflight
jppr...@my-deja.com
Cessna 172 with very few hours so far. I have what seems to be a very
basic question about the preflight check that nobody seems to be able to
answer:
You do a preflight in order to prepare the plane and check all the basic
functions. But checking the flaps (lowering the flaps) is not on the
preflight checklist. One would think that this is one of the functions
you want to check before taking off.
The other day I did my preflight and somebody pointed out to me that I
wouldn't have to lower the flaps, however he couldn't answer the 'why?'.
My CFI confirmed that this is not a necessary procedure.
For a beginner like myself it's hard to understand things if you don't
know why.
Thank you in advance for any answers.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Roy Smith, CFI
> You do a preflight in order to prepare the plane and check all the basic
> functions. But checking the flaps (lowering the flaps) is not on the
> preflight checklist.
It depends on what checklist you're using! My 172 checklist includes
extending the flaps, and visually checking the track mechanism to make
sure it all looks like it should, while (gently) wiggling the flap with
my hand to make sure it's secure.
> One would think that this is one of the functions
> you want to check before taking off.
Of course. The idea of a pre-flight is to check anything you can
reasonably check. Sure, you can land a 172 without flaps, but since it
takes all of about 30 seconds per side to give them a good looking-over,
there's no reason not to.
> The other day I did my preflight and somebody pointed out to me that I
> wouldn't have to lower the flaps, however he couldn't answer the 'why?'.
> My CFI confirmed that this is not a necessary procedure.
This bothers me a lot. Your instructor should be teaching you good
habits, and checking the flaps during preflight is a very good habit. I
don't even know if it's possible to get asymmetric flap extension on a
172, but if it did happen, it would be handful to deal with (much worse
than them not working at all). Maybe there's a mechanical jam which
would cause the flap actuator motor to stall. If you're lucky, it'll
just blow the breaker. If you're unlucky, the breaker will fail too (it
probably hasn't been tested since it left the factory 25 years ago) and
you'll either take out the whole electrical system or, worse, start a
fire. Wouldn't you really rather discover stuff like that on the ground?
--
Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA
jppr...@my-deja.com
makes me feel better. Seems my instinct to check them was correct after
all :)
In article <roy.smith-DD345...@netnews.nyu.edu>,
Gene Whitt
Cessna flaps should be preflighted according to your
familiarity with the aircraft. At most, in an unfamiliar
aircraft, the flaps should be fully extended and a flashlight
used to confirm locking nut security on the extension arm
inside the wing.
At least, flaps should be extended 10 degrees to give adequate
look at flap track and condition. This saves battery power that
may be better used in cold weather starting.
In my opinion, instructors should teach comprehensive preflights
but not to the extent of one lady I flew with. She carried a
Phillips screwdriver with her land checked every screw that it
would go into. Took her 45 minutes to do a preflight and twelve
trips around the airplane. Had another lady catch an aileron
locking nut that had backed off. This nut must have been missed
by dozens of other preflights.
An eight hour student once found an elevator screw that had been
inserted backwards so that the nut would interfere with the last
inch of elevator movement in landings. This condition had existed
for four years in a club C-172 and resulted in thousands of dollars
in nose wheel repair prior to discovery. Take a look at your C-172
elevator rod and nut to see how this could have happened.
Final advice. Preflight to your own comfort level. Remember 1/4 of
accidents can be attributed to inadequate preflight.
Gene Whitt
WD0JIM
"Extend Flaps" in all the check lists in all the planes they own. They also
wrote in "Retract Flaps" at the beginning of the run up section.
Jim
Roy Smith, CFI <roy....@med.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:roy.smith-DD345...@netnews.nyu.edu...
Mike Singer
In all three the checklists call for "extend flaps". I check the control
arms, nuts, and play during the walk-around. Recently I ran across a old
(1996?) "Plane and Pilot" article about what can happen if one of the flaps
fails during landing. Sounds like it should be manageble but a little
scary, especially if a go-around is needed. Definitely better to find the
problem on the ground before the flight.
dhenriques1
<jppr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:842prv$5m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
I would like to add my voice to the opinion stated by Roy Smith. He is
absolutely correct. You won't find good judgement in the POH.
Lower the flaps , check the tracks ,AND the actuating rods, as well as
the general condition of the flaps themselves.
The important lesson here is this. Don't get hung up on what it says or
doesn't say in the POH. By all means, read the book and do as it
suggests, but NEVER, and I repeat NEVER, allow yourself to develop a
habit pattern that denies you a visual check of anything on your
airplane simply because it isn't mentioned in the POH. The habit
patterns you develop now will follow you all through your career as a
pilot. It is paramount that these patterns be both correct and based on
good judgement.
To be quite frank, I'm puzzled by a flight instructor that let this pass
without the kind of comment you are getting now.
The fact that you questioned this is for me, an excellent sign of the
kind of good judgement I like to see in a student.
I have no doubt you will do quite well as a pilot.
DH
--
Dudley A. Henriques
1508540 CFI
Steve Bukosky
>The other day I did my preflight and somebody pointed out to me that I
>wouldn't have to lower the flaps, however he couldn't answer the 'why?'.
>My CFI confirmed that this is not a necessary procedure.
I was taught to lower the flaps and check the attachment points. Then
again some of my preflights are billable as an annual inspection!
Steve Bukosky
sbuk...@execpc.com
http://www.execpc.com/~sbukosky/
Madewell
>
> The other day I did my preflight and somebody pointed out to me that I
> wouldn't have to lower the flaps, however he couldn't answer the 'why?'.
> My CFI confirmed that this is not a necessary procedure.
> know why.
> Thank you in advance for any answers.
>
> Before you buy.
There's a difference between "have to" and "should do". It's up to you
to determine if your aircraft is fit for flight. I put a high premium
on my tail and have always extended the flaps during preflights. I
found a a broken flap track on a 172 (failed attaching rivets) once and
was surprised at how much the top of the wing would distort when you
lifted the flap. Here's a question. What does the top of the white arc
signify on the airspeed indicator and what is one way you might find out
if the guy before you didn't know the answer :)
Roy Madewell- Sacramento CA.
Bob Romanko
jppr...@my-deja.com wrote in message <842prv$5m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>As qualifing comment I should say that I'm a student pilot flying a
>Cessna 172 with very few hours so far. I have what seems to be a very
>basic question about the preflight check that nobody seems to be able to
>answer:
>
>functions. But checking the flaps (lowering the flaps) is not on the
>you want to check before taking off.
>
>wouldn't have to lower the flaps, however he couldn't answer the 'why?'.
>My CFI confirmed that this is not a necessary procedure.
>For a beginner like myself it's hard to understand things if you don't
>know why.
>Thank you in advance for any answers.
The POH is the MINIMUM checklist. You should have a personal checklist
in addition to the POH for any given aircraft. Lowering the flaps fully and
checking attach points, hardware, etc. are all things you should be doing.
Now, on to my question:
Take a look at all the flaps on a high wing Cessna. The inner track is nearly
always dry, but the outer track is usually well lubricated. Why?
Bob Romanko
High-Time "Stick and Rudder" Reader
Builder Bearhawk #399
PP-ASEL, A&P, AOPA, EAA
Based at Charlottesville, VA (CHO)
Ron Natalie
jppr...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> You do a preflight in order to prepare the plane and check all the basic
> functions. But checking the flaps (lowering the flaps) is not on the
> preflight checklist. One would think that this is one of the functions
> you want to check before taking off.
It is on at least some of the cessna checklists. The very first part
is something like Cockpit: Required Docs check, MASTER ON, check fuel
guages and qty, lower flaps, MASTER OFF.
How else can you inspect the flaps during preflight if you don't lower
them at least a little bit?
Dion Marshall
jppr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Thanks Roy,
>
> makes me feel better. Seems my instinct to check them was correct
after
> all :)
>
Here's a gratuitous hint from my CFI about checking the flaps. If you do
get hold of a checklist that refers to flaps, it's liable to tell you to
run them all the way down. He recommends that you only put in one notch.
That way, if you're away from your home base and they refuse to retract,
you can still safely take off and fly home. It's enough to get a good
look at the mechanism.
Dion
(I'm not a CFI, but it makes sense to me, flame away!)
Roy Smith
> Here's a gratuitous hint from my CFI about checking the flaps. If you do
> get hold of a checklist that refers to flaps, it's liable to tell you to
> run them all the way down. He recommends that you only put in one notch.
> That way, if you're away from your home base and they refuse to retract,
> you can still safely take off and fly home.
The whole idea of a preflight is to find out if anything is broken on the
airplane. If you extend the flaps and they fail to retract, you have found
something broken on the airplane. The correct reaction should be to say, "Damn,
I'm sure glad I discovered that while I was safely on the ground" and cancel the
flight until it can get repaired, or at least until a mechanic can look at it
and verify that it's safe to fly that way.
There's a lot of little stuff that can go wrong with a plane that would not keep
my from flying. I don't consider jammed flaps to be "little stuff". What are
you going to do when you start your takeoff roll and as soon as you rotate, the
aerodynamic loading on the flaps is sufficient to unjam them and they suddenly
retract back to zero. Could be exciting.
A good way to evaluate go-no/go decisions is to think, "How stupid is this going
to look in the NTSB report?"
--
Roy Smith <r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu>
CP-ASEL-IA, CFI-ASE-IA
St Stephen Ames
> A good way to evaluate go-no/go decisions is to think, "How stupid is this going
> to look in the NTSB report?"
I think I'm gonna print a sticker out, that says that, and put it on my
dash...
Blue skies,
St Stephen Ames
PP-ASEL
N16402
PA-28-180
My flying site: http://www.stephenames.com/flying/flying.html
---------------------------------------------------------------
- Another part of my pre-flight passenger briefing -
'Smoking is not permitted inside the cabin; however smoking outside
the cabin should be reported to the captain immediately!'
Scott D. Isaac
news:s6a00s...@corp.supernews.com...
| I have been taking lessons at the local community college and they wrote
in
| "Extend Flaps" in all the check lists in all the planes they own. They
also
| wrote in "Retract Flaps" at the beginning of the run up section.
|
| Jim
I have "extend flaps" on my Preflight Checklist. Then, I have "retract
flaps" at the end of my Engine Start Checklist. You'll want to retract them
before you taxi because: a) If they fail to retract, you're not going
anywhere, so why taxi? b) You don't want rocks and debris kicked up at them
while you're taxiing.
The checklists provided in the POH should be considered baseline. You're
free (and wise) to add to them.
Scott
Scott D. Isaac
| A good way to evaluate go-no/go decisions is to think, "How stupid is this
going
| to look in the NTSB report?"
I'm going to add that to my "Before Takeoff" checklist!
-Scott
Alun
<ste...@stephenames.com> writes
>Roy Smith wrote:
>> A good way to evaluate go-no/go decisions is to think, "How stupid is this
>going
>> to look in the NTSB report?"
>
>dash...
I'll second that! What a great way to assess things :)
--
Alun
Bob Romanko
Just physically ralph on them. If they don't come off in your hand they
probably won't come off in flight (tongue firmly planted in cheek).
Yes, you can grab them, shake 'em and give 'em a good pull (grin)! Flaps
are pretty straightforward. The electrics have a better chance of failing than
the hardware, based on the problems I've had lately. I like the manual flaps
myself. Quicker to drop, and you can "feel the flaps" better. Really fun to
plop the flaps in a 175 at 3,000 RPM during a short field take off! The
earth repels it like a bad weed.
Hey Ron, do you know why the inboard tracks are nearly always dry on a
Cessna 150/152/172?
Scroll Down...
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Yep. The fuel jocks overflow the tanks all the time, and the 100LL runs
all over the inboard tracks and wipes the grease clean off of 'em. I got
my DE on this during the preflight for my checkride. heehee. He got
me back during the flight, however.
Have a good one.
Bob Romanko
Objekt
> Yep. The fuel jocks overflow the tanks all the time, and the 100LL runs
> all over the inboard tracks and wipes the grease clean off of 'em. I got
> my DE on this during the preflight for my checkride. heehee. He got
> me back during the flight, however.
Got any other fast ones one can pull on a DE? It would be rude of me
to let the DE be the only one asking questions, after all. ;) I have
over 100 hours now, if I were any readier I would transmogrify into a
copy of the FAR/AIM and Cessna 172 POH! So I wouldn't mind having a
little extra fun on the checkride.
Obj
Antonio Aponte
nose strut during preflight? I was told (by the DE) the answer is 4-5".
Antonio
> Got any other fast ones one can pull on a DE? It would be rude of me
> to let the DE be the only one asking questions, after all. ;)
> Obj
Roy Smith
> The DE got me on this one: How many inches of chrome is supposed to be
> visible on the nose strut during preflight? I was told (by the DE) the answer
> is 4-5".
The answer to that is type-specific. Your POH will tell you how to preflight
the gear struts.
HLAviation
>over 100 hours now, if I were any readier I would transmogrify into a
>copy of the FAR/AIM and Cessna 172 POH! So I wouldn't mind having a
>little extra fun on the checkride.
>
As a 100 hour student, I'd probably check any attitude at the door, the DE is
already wondering about you.
James
Your instructor has given you some bad information. Check everything you
can. I was always taught, and continue to teach, that the flaps should be
dropped, as said before, check the track ect, also look for cracks. You
instructor is teaching a very bad habit that gets pilots killed,
"Complacency". The sooner that you believe that you are the PIC, the better
you will be, I don't mean tell your instructor you don't need him and he is
wrong, but simply say, thats OK that I don't have to, but I would like to
anyhow, if he says get in and leave it alone, find another instructor. I
never have a problem with students checking more than I taught them, its the
ones that don't check that bug me, they are the ones that keep me up at
night. Also another good piece of advice was the 10 degrees, but I do this
only when I am away from the home airport, if I am at home base, they go all
the way down.
James, CFII
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