Feet on the pedals, but what about the heels?
Bob Clough
feet on the rudder pedals. Obviously when taxiing you gotta keep your heels
on the lower part of the rudder pedal and your toes on the upper so you can
brake. But what about once airborne? I found it pretty uncomfortable to
keep my heels on the pedals while cruising, so I'd drop the heels to the
floor and work the pedals that way. Bad habit?
Harry Gordon
Just be careful that you don't "ride" the brakes while your taxiing. When I
am in the air, I keep my heels on the floor and the balls of my feet on the
pedals. In fact, my instructor told me to do something which has really
helped me - as soon as the wheels brake contact with the ground to take my
left foot completely off the pedal. Now, I fly a 172, so I don't know if
that will work with you but so far, I have found it to be a fantastic idea.
It removes the temptation to apply left rudder when I really don't have to;
it makes for one less thing to think about; and it relaxes my left leg. This
of course only works while your climbing.
Harry
SP-ASEL
"Bob Clough" <bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:t_U5a.12225$_J5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
BTIZ
rudder pedal, what if you hit a wind gust that drops the right wing? Left
rudder will raise that wing quicker than aileron. And using aileron will add
adverse yaw.
Once you start the take off roll, drop your heels to the floor, keeps you
from dragging a brake on takeoff roll, increasing your takeoff distance.
Also, when landing, heels on floor keeps you from landing with a brake
locked.
Fly tailwheel or gliders, you'll need both of them feet on the rudders.
TIZ
"Harry Gordon" <harry....@att.net> wrote in message
news:GhV5a.46678$rq4.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Greg Esres
of the rudder pedal and your toes on the upper so you can brake. >>
Disagree. I definitely prefer that pilots keep heels on the floor
unless actively using the brakes. I'm sure that "Heels on the floor!"
is a common admonition of instructors to student pilots.
Larry Fransson
"Bob Clough" <bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote:
> I found it pretty uncomfortable to
> keep my heels on the pedals while cruising, so I'd drop the heels to the
> floor and work the pedals that way. Bad habit?
I think your bad habit is more keeping your heels on the pedals. That's
a good way to get yourself riding the brakes. I was once instructing a
student and noticed that our takeoff performance was a little sluggish.
A quick adminition to get heels on the floor increased our acceleration
greatly.
Heels on the floor at all times unless you're using the brakes!
--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA
Bob Clough
make the "heel transition" from floor to pedal? At some point you gotta
shift the feet, right? On final? After touchdown? Right now I bring 'em
up abeam the numbers as part of my pre-landing flow check. Gotta be
conscious of not hitting the brakes, but I also felt uncomfortable shifting
once on the ground cuz that's my steering control.
Bob
"Larry Fransson" <newsg...@larryandjenny.net> wrote in message
news:newsgroups-010B3...@netnews.attbi.com...
Cecil E. Chapman
you will have more success learning to taxi properly if your TOES are
resting on the bottom of the rudder pedals and your heels on the floor.
Should you need to apply brake it is an easy matter to slide your feet up to
the top of the pedals with your toes.
--
--
Good Flights!
Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL
"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis-
My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Bob Clough" <bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:t_U5a.12225$_J5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Tony Roberts
In article <Nn_5a.3318$A5....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, "Cecil E.
Chapman" <bayare...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> As with anything, run this advice by with your CFI, but I would suggest that
> you will have more success learning to taxi properly if your TOES are
> resting on the bottom of the rudder pedals and your heels on the floor.
> Should you need to apply brake it is an easy matter to slide your feet up to
> the top of the pedals with your toes.
--
Tony Roberts (tonyr...@shaw.ca)
PP-ASEL - VFR-OTT
Cessna 172 C-GICE
Borislav Deianov
> I hear you on the problem of riding the brakes, but when landing
> when do you make the "heel transition" from floor to pedal? At some
> point you gotta shift the feet, right? On final? After touchdown?
> Right now I bring 'em up abeam the numbers as part of my pre-landing
> flow check. Gotta be conscious of not hitting the brakes, but I
> also felt uncomfortable shifting once on the ground cuz that's my
> steering control.
I do it well into the roll-out, when I actually need to apply the
brakes. One thing you definitely don't want is to inadvertently touch
down with brakes (even partially) on. That's an easy way to lock up a
wheel and blow out the tire...
Unless you are flying a taildragger, momentarily relinquishing your
steering control to shift your feet up shouldn't be a big deal because
the plane is stable on the ground and will just keep rolling in the
direction it's pointed.
Borislav
Borislav Deianov
> In article <t_U5a.12225$_J5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
> "Bob Clough" <bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think your bad habit is more keeping your heels on the pedals. That's
> a good way to get yourself riding the brakes. I was once instructing a
> student and noticed that our takeoff performance was a little sluggish.
> A quick adminition to get heels on the floor increased our acceleration
> greatly.
It seems to me that toe brakes are one of those inventions which
improve handling and safety but allow bad habits to develop (the nose
wheel being another such invention). My FBO has a couple of old
taildraggers with heel brakes. Those are two separate small pedals
located slightly closer to the seat and the centerline. It's possible
to apply rudder and brake together but it's hard and you need to twist
your leg in a fairly uncomfortable position. Not only you are not
tempted to ride the brakes but you learn to avoid them altogether
unless absolutely necessary. :-)
Borislav
Kiwi Jet Jock
front-seat passengers do the same.
Amougst other things I've seen a C177 almost end up in the trees because of
brakes being partially applied on take off - and I've seen a P3 Orion blow
out all 4 mains because the Co had his feet on the brakes during the
landing.
Dave Stadt
> I hear you on the problem of riding the brakes, but when landing when do
you
> make the "heel transition" from floor to pedal? At some point you gotta
> shift the feet, right? On final? After touchdown? Right now I bring 'em
> up abeam the numbers as part of my pre-landing flow check. Gotta be
> conscious of not hitting the brakes, but I also felt uncomfortable
shifting
> once on the ground cuz that's my steering control.
>
> Bob
Heels on the floor until you need the brakes which isn't untill you are well
into the roll out. Part of my pre-landing check is _heels on the floor_.
After a couple of thousand landings I have never needed brakes to straighten
out a rollout and that's in a taildragger. It might happen but hasn't so
far. The transition takes only a fraction of a second.
Jeffrey Morley
> I hear you on the problem of riding the brakes, but when landing when
> do you make the "heel transition" from floor to pedal? At some point
> you gotta shift the feet, right? On final? After touchdown? Right
> now I bring 'em up abeam the numbers as part of my pre-landing flow
> check. Gotta be conscious of not hitting the brakes, but I also felt
> uncomfortable shifting once on the ground cuz that's my steering
> control.
>
I don't shift the position of my feet until I actually need the brakes,
well after touchdown.
Jeff
--
Jeffrey Morley, Pil...@aol.com
Student Pilot - Cessna 172R
JYO - Leesburg, Virginia, USA
Roger Halstead
wrote:
Here's what I do:
I'm flying a high performance nose dragger.
Once lined up with the centerline for takeoff my feet slide down so
the balls of my feet are on the pedals with both heels slightly above
the carpet. In that position I could rest my heels on the floor.
On landing I again put the balls of my feet on the pedals. I don't
move them up to where I can touch the brakes until I'm at a speed
where they can do some good.
On *really* short (max effort short field) landings, I do have my
arch on the pedal and toe *over* the brake, but don't press the brakes
unless needed.
IOW, I do not have my feet in a position where I can accidentally get
on the brakes at an inopportune time. That is *basically* any time
the aerodynamic controls are working I can't touch the brakes
accidentally.
><<Obviously when taxiing you gotta keep your heels on the lower part
>of the rudder pedal and your toes on the upper so you can brake. >>
During most phases of taxi my heels are on the floor. The exception
being tight turns The nose gear caster (and cant) in the Deb are
such that you are constantly dancing on the pedals to keep going
straight down the centerline. There is no such place as neutral where
it'll just ride.
The old Cherokee was good for this as it didn't have toe brakes. It
was the good old fashioned, "both-or-nothing" Johnson bar just like
the flaps.
>
>Disagree. I definitely prefer that pilots keep heels on the floor
>unless actively using the brakes. I'm sure that "Heels on the floor!"
>is a common admonition of instructors to student pilots.
Now were the student in a Grumman....<:-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
BTIZ
"Bob Clough" <bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote in message news:fRZ5a.14705>
conscious of not hitting the brakes, but I also felt uncomfortable shifting
> once on the ground cuz that's my steering control.
>
> Bob
>
What are you flying that you need brakes for steering control on takeoff or
landing? The only plane I can think of that comes close would be the Grumman
AA1 and similar types. No nose wheel steering and small rudder, need some
"wheel drag" on the crosswind takeoff until the rudder becomes effective..
same for the last few feet on roll out.
As my instructors have said... brakes are for braking or stopping, not for
steering.
TIZ
Larry Fransson
"Bob Clough" <bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote:
> I hear you on the problem of riding the brakes, but when landing when do you
> make the "heel transition" from floor to pedal? At some point you gotta
> shift the feet, right? On final? After touchdown?
You don't. The average light airplane lands in less than 1,000 feet, so
unless you're landing on a truly short runway where maximum braking is
required immediately, heels stay on the floor until it's time to
actually use the brakes. Even on those occasions when I've had to land
a 13,000 pound jet with a 115 knot approach speed on a relatively short
(3,500 feet) runway, my heels didn't leave the floor until the main
wheels were on the ground. I still managed to get stopped with almost
half the runway remaining.
C J Campbell
Telling student pilots to keep their heels on the floor while taxiing has to
rank right up there with more right rudder. I swear it is the only thing I
say some days.
I think you could hire a parrot to be a flight instructor. All it would have
to do is say "Heels on the floor!" "More right rudder!" "Watch your
airspeed/heading/altitude!" about every minute or so. Oh, another one: "Stop
chasing the needles!"
Maule Driver
all times during TO and Landings. I move them up when the brakes are
required.
I've had to use brakes 2 or 3 times to straighten out a rollout - quick
shifting of the foot is no problem. Even had to do it when a tailwheel
spring failed. Took all the brakes, rudder and body english I had to keep
it out of the weeds.
Dudley H has made the point elsewhere in RAP that precision rudder work
requires heels on floor and toes on brakes. If I understand him correctly,
I agree.
"Dave Stadt" <dhs...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:i456a.16099$UF6.1...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
twomorrow
I insist that my students, or transitioning pilots, call this out on final
when we are in a tailwheel airplane.
Luke
VNY CFI
"Greg Esres" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2blg5vkl2sfa32e6d...@4ax.com...
Roger Halstead
<christoph...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Bob Clough" <bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote in message
>news:t_U5a.12225$_J5....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>| Early in my lessons and still trying to determine best position to put the
>| feet on the rudder pedals. Obviously when taxiing you gotta keep your
>heels
>| on the lower part of the rudder pedal and your toes on the upper so you
>can
>| brake. But what about once airborne? I found it pretty uncomfortable to
>| keep my heels on the pedals while cruising, so I'd drop the heels to the
>| floor and work the pedals that way. Bad habit?
I don't move my feet so I can touch the brakes until I need them.
That's even in strong cross winds with interconnected controls. Now
that makes for an interesting exercise moving the feet up while
maintaining rudder pressure. what ever I do with the rudder affects
the ailerons and what ever I do with the ailerons affects the rudder.
If you are banked into a cross wind with opposite rudder to keep you
straight, taking your foot off the pedals to reach the brakes
*immediately* puts the rudder into a coordinated position which is
exactly what you don't want. So there is a moment of correction of
ailerons and rudder to keep from heading for the weeds.
>|
>|
>
>Telling student pilots to keep their heels on the floor while taxiing has to
>rank right up there with more right rudder. I swear it is the only thing I
>say some days.
When taxiing I can't put my heels on the floor, or my calf muscles
would give out half way down the taxiway. However I keep them low
enough so my toes cant touch the brakes. Taxiiying a plane with a
canted nose gear strut with reverse caster makes for a dance on the
pedals.
>
>I think you could hire a parrot to be a flight instructor. All it would have
>to do is say "Heels on the floor!" "More right rudder!" "Watch your
>airspeed/heading/altitude!" about every minute or so. Oh, another one: "Stop
>chasing the needles!"
>
You forgot , "Quite flying the VSI, it's a trend instrument !" <:-))
All I have to do is let a pilot, or student fly the Debonair for about
one minute and I can tell if they've been flying the VSI as we'll be
doing 2 Geezzzsss out of the bottom and ZEEEroooo over the top, in
less than a minute. Usually less than 30 seconds. I have to tell them
to look out side, and to put the horizon at a spot on the windshield
and keep it there. (before I get sick in my own plane) They are
almost always amazed that it cures the problem so well and so quickly.
They have been flying planes that do not respond so quickly and have
been getting away with it for years. One particular pilot took over
25 miles to get the thing to settle out, even after I pointed out the
cure. That left me sitting there saying to myself (I will not get sick
in my own airplane, I will not get sick in my own airplane...I ...
WILL ... NOT... GET ... S I C..K ...I..N...M..Y ...
Oooo...Wwwww....Nnnnn...AIRPLANE.)
It's not just with flying.
When I was working as a sys admin, and later as a developmental
analyst (programmer), I was the one they called for help. I would
often get two or three call in a night. My wife remarked that
although she'd never seen the system, she'd heard me say the same
things so often that she was sure she could handle a trouble call with
out asking me for help.
She knew what to ask and what the answers should be. That's all it
took for me. Yet...they called me where I was staying in Oshkosh,
they had me paged over the PA system at Oshkosh, and they even called
me when we were in Florida visiting Joyce's folks. Although that last
one was my replacement having a problem. The page on the PA system
was her replacement who had typed DEL *.*[...] which in VAXeez is
delete all in the current directory and all sub directories. Not a
good thing to do from the root directory. This tearful voice said,
"what do I do now?" Time to call the computer gurus and ask for the
most recent backup, then grit your teeth and call the labs to let them
know you just destroyed everything they entered since last
midnight....(Actually you just tell them there was a system problem
and they need to reenter the data.) That way they are upset with the
system instead of you...Usually.
Bob Clough
Weather finally broke in Seattle last 48 hours so I actually got to practice
what you are all preaching on two x-countries and....it works. :)
Bob
Henry and Debbie McFarland
rudders. "Heels on the floor" will kill ya since we have heel brakes ;-).
Deb
--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Athens, Ga.
"twomorrow" <luk...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Nly6a.224725$iG3.26873@sccrnsc02...
Henry and Debbie McFarland
learn to be careful on landing that I didn't inadvertently have some
pressure on the brake. That can cause a really bad day. Now, the heel brakes
seem as natural as the stick.
Deb
--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Athens, Ga.
"Borislav Deianov" <bori...@users.sf.net> wrote in message
news:b39ruu$sau$2...@vulcan.alphanet.ch...
Roger Halstead
>
On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:55:53 GMT, "Bob Clough"
<bob_c...@notmail.com> wrote:
>Early in my lessons and still trying to determine best position to put the
>feet on the rudder pedals. Obviously when taxiing you gotta keep your heels
Not obvious at all. Even in taxi you don't put your feet on the brakes
unless the plane is of the type that uses the brakes to steer such as
a Grumman Tiger. Even then you just tap them.
>on the lower part of the rudder pedal and your toes on the upper so you can
>brake. But what about once airborne? I found it pretty uncomfortable to
>keep my heels on the pedals while cruising, so I'd drop the heels to the
>floor and work the pedals that way. Bad habit?
The last part (heels on the floor is good), the first, even in taxi
is not for most airplanes with nose gear steering