C172 fixed pitch -> variable pitch
Pedro Cruz
flied a variable pitch prop, do in dual command with an instructor in C172H
or K (variable pitch prop) before be able to fly alone alone?
Any awnsers would be apriciated, because I have a personal problem related
with it. More info on that when solved... Thanks.
Jim
Pedro Cruz wrote in message <78hmhp$4cj$2...@pthp35.telecom.pt>...
I do not think that there is any fixed amount of time.
After you get your initial PPL ASEL license the FAA considers you qualified
to fly any aircraft similar (that is, tail dragger or tricycle gear) to the
one you trained in, up to 22,500 pounds weight. I am talking about in the
USA. Other countries may be different.
It shouldn't take more than a few hours with an instructor to become
familiar with a new aircraft.
Several months ago, due to a scheduling conflict, my CFI gave me a lesson in
his 'personal' plane---a cessna 182, which has a variable pitch prop. It
wasn't that different than the 172 in handling, and I think it would take me
only 2 or 3 more hours to get the hang of the variable pitch prop.
Jim
Bob Noel
> How much time must a pilot of Cessna 172N (fixed pitch prop), that never
> flied a variable pitch prop, do in dual command with an instructor in C172H
> or K (variable pitch prop) before be able to fly alone alone?
>
> Any awnsers would be apriciated, because I have a personal problem related
> with it. More info on that when solved... Thanks.
As long as the 172 doesn't require a complex or high performance signoff,
the FAA doesn't have any specific requirement for min time. It's entirely
up to the owner of the aircraft.
--
Bob Noel aka Kobyashi Maru
my views are my own not MITRE's
(email to rwn and put mitre in place of nospam)
timf
>How much time must a pilot of Cessna 172N (fixed pitch prop), that never
>flied a variable pitch prop, do in dual command with an instructor in C172H
>or K (variable pitch prop) before be able to fly alone alone?
>
>Any awnsers would be apriciated, because I have a personal problem related
>with it. More info on that when solved... Thanks.
Most insurance companies, however, want you to have at least 10 hours
in type before they will insure you.
Your milage may vary...
tim
Note to reply via email use the following
address: timf (at) ushandball (dot) org
Ron Natalie
>
> How much time must a pilot of Cessna 172N (fixed pitch prop), that never
> flied a variable pitch prop, do in dual command with an instructor in C172H
> or K (variable pitch prop) before be able to fly alone alone?
>
If the aircraft still has fixed gear, working the prop control
shouldn't take you more than one lesson in my opinion. It may
seem intimidating at first, but a CS isn't that hard (especially
on something like a Skyhawk which really has only three power
settings: Max Power, cruise, and descent.
You need to know a little more during preflight. Advance the
prop before adding throttle, retard the throttle before backing
the prop off. For cruise pick one of the settings from the POH
(or if you're lucky someone has taped the power chart to the
sunvisor). If someone mentions "oversquare" tell them they
are full of it.
Ron Natalie
>\
>
> Most insurance companies, however, want you to have at least 10 hours
> in type before they will insure you.
>
> Your milage may vary...
Certainly, mine did. Mine didn't care (even for a retract).
10 hours to fly a non-complex aircraft?
Rod Farlee
> How much time must a pilot of Cessna 172N (fixed pitch prop), that never
>flied a variable pitch prop, do in dual command with an instructor in C172H
>or K (variable pitch prop) before be able to fly alone alone?
I'm confused; C172H and K have fixed pitch props. Main difference from
the C172N is flap control & indicator and radios; slight differences in
fuel capacity, CG, and airspeed calibration.
I assume you must mean the R172 "Hawk XP", which has a c/s prop?
Insurance requires a 1 hour checkout in type, with "high performance"
signoff per 61.31(e). Differences include c/s prop, cowl flaps, boost
pump, and more power causes more pitch and yaw when applied. If it's
taking longer than this, then issues are involved which are not particular
to the XP itself.
- Rod Farlee
Rob Caswell
addition to the feet going up. Usually a matter of an hour or two for the
check, depending how comfortable you are with it. Your local flying
club/school can provide more info.
Caz
rob...@cadvision.ca
Canuckland Private Pilot PA425284
Rod Farlee wrote in message
<19990125154816...@ngol08.aol.com>...
Roy Smith
> Insurance requires a 1 hour checkout in type
Careful here. How can you tell somebody what their insurance policy
requires without knowing anything about their coverage? Maybe 1 hour
checkout is a common clause in policies, but it's not gospel.
Robert Moore
>After you get your initial PPL ASEL license the FAA considers you qualified
>to fly any aircraft similar (that is, tail dragger or tricycle gear) to the
>one you trained in, up to 22,500 pounds weight. I am talking about in the
>USA. Other countries may be different.
Well,..... your paragraph certainly doesn't apply in the USA.
1. No such thing as a PPL in the USA, it's a PP-ASEL certificate,
not a licence.
2. Weight limit is 12,500#, above which, you need a type rating.
Bob Moore
ATP CFIA CFII
Justin Case
You forgot to mention that in the USA you ALSO need a tail-dragger
checkout with an instructor...so you're NOT qualified or authorized to
fly it with a ppl (sic).......certificate.
Pedro Cruz
Rod Farlee wrote in message
<19990125154816...@ngol08.aol.com>...
>
>I'm confused; C172H and K have fixed pitch props. Main difference from
>the C172N is flap control & indicator and radios; slight differences in
>fuel capacity, CG, and airspeed calibration.
>
>I assume you must mean the R172 "Hawk XP", which has a c/s prop?
>
Of course... :-)... it is the Cessna FR172H and F172K. One Hawk and one
Rocket...
Jim
Justin Case wrote in message <36ADD1...@yahoo.com>...
>Robert Moore wrote:
>>
>> "Jim" <jbol...@lintek.com> wrote:
>> >After you get your initial PPL ASEL license the FAA considers you
qualified
>> >to fly any aircraft similar (that is, tail dragger or tricycle gear) to
the
>> >one you trained in, up to 22,500 pounds weight. I am talking about in
the
>> >USA. Other countries may be different.
>>
>> Well,..... your paragraph certainly doesn't apply in the USA.
>>
>> 1. No such thing as a PPL in the USA, it's a PP-ASEL certificate,
>> not a licence.
>>
PPL---Private Pilot License. I have seen others on this group use PPL and
ASEL.
>> 2. Weight limit is 12,500#, above which, you need a type rating.
>>
Ok. So I hit the wrong key on the keyboard. I knew it was x2,500 pounds or
something like that
>> Bob Moore
>> ATP CFIA CFII
>
>
>You forgot to mention that in the USA you ALSO need a tail-dragger
>checkout with an instructor...so you're NOT qualified or authorized to
>fly it with a ppl (sic).......certificate.
My point was that, whatever you trained in (tricycle or taildragger) you can
fly any similar aircraft with only an hour or two check out. Going to
something different, such as c172 to c170, will require additional training
and an endorsement.
Curtis Wheeler
Justin Case wrote:
>
> Robert Moore wrote:
> >
> > "Jim" <jbol...@lintek.com> wrote:
> > >After you get your initial PPL ASEL license the FAA considers you qualified
> > >to fly any aircraft similar (that is, tail dragger or tricycle gear) to the
> > >one you trained in, up to 22,500 pounds weight. I am talking about in the
> > >USA. Other countries may be different.
> >
> > Well,..... your paragraph certainly doesn't apply in the USA.
> >
> > 1. No such thing as a PPL in the USA, it's a PP-ASEL certificate,
> > not a licence.
> >
> > 2. Weight limit is 12,500#, above which, you need a type rating.
> >
> > Bob Moore
> > ATP CFIA CFII
> You forgot to mention that in the USA you ALSO need a tail-dragger
> checkout with an instructor...so you're NOT qualified or authorized to
> fly it with a ppl (sic).......certificate.
Sure you are. To fly a single engine tail dragger, all you need a ASEL
rating on whatever certificate you possess. The check out is not a
rating or a certificate. It's an endorsement - and it's not even
required for pilots who had tailwheel experience logged prior to a
specific date (I don't remember what it is).
Rob Caswell
Jim wrote in message <36ae0...@news.netwalk.com>...
>
>PPL---Private Pilot License. I have seen others on this group use PPL and
>ASEL.
>
There happen to be more than American users on this group. PPL seems to be
the common abbreviation, but for the US, it really is a PP-ASEL Certificate
(I'm assuming it means "Private Pilot - Aeroplane Single Engine Land).
I, however, being Canadian, hold a PPL-A (Private Pilot License -
Aeroplane). I'm not sure what the abbrv is for UK pilots, or from other
countries. So that could also contribute to the confusion.
Robert Moore
>Robert Moore wrote:
>>
>> "Jim" <jbol...@lintek.com> wrote:
>> >After you get your initial PPL ASEL license the FAA considers you qualified
>> >to fly any aircraft similar (that is, tail dragger or tricycle gear) to the
>> >one you trained in, up to 22,500 pounds weight. I am talking about in the
>> >USA. Other countries may be different.
>>
>> Well,..... your paragraph certainly doesn't apply in the USA.
>>
>> 1. No such thing as a PPL in the USA, it's a PP-ASEL certificate,
>> not a licence.
>>
>> 2. Weight limit is 12,500#, above which, you need a type rating.
>You forgot to mention that in the USA you ALSO need a tail-dragger
>checkout with an instructor...so you're NOT qualified or authorized to
>fly it with a ppl (sic).......certificate.
Nope..... I didn't forget, the post that I responded to, stated the pilot
trained in a similiar airplane, ie, a taildragger. There ARE people
who obtain their PP-ASEL in taildraggers. :-)
Bob Moore
Justin Case
>
>
> Nope..... I didn't forget, the post that I responded to, stated the pilot
> trained in a similiar airplane, ie, a taildragger. There ARE people
> who obtain their PP-ASEL in taildraggers. :-)
>
> Bob Moore
Gotcha....I misread it. (sheepish grin)
Rob Caswell
Dave Mould
> My point was that, whatever you trained in (tricycle or taildragger) you can
> fly any similar aircraft with only an hour or two check out. Going to
> something different, such as c172 to c170, will require additional training
> and an endorsement.
>
I know that in the US you need an additional endorsement for a taildragger,
but is the opposite also the case? i.e. if you did all your training in a
Chipmunk, would you *legally* need an additional endorsement to fly a C150?
Not talking about what's prudent, just what's legal.
ISTM that a pilot who can land a taildragger should have few problems in a
tricycle, but the reverse is not usually the case.
Here in the UK, the CAA does not make a distinction between a tricycle and a
taildragger - though the insurance companies do! (OTOH there is no legal
requirement for insurance either).
==========
Dave Mould
==========
Dave Mould
> I, however, being Canadian, hold a PPL-A (Private Pilot License -
> Aeroplane). I'm not sure what the abbrv is for UK pilots, or from other
> countries. So that could also contribute to the confusion.
Used to be PPL-A as well in the UK, but a friend who got his ticket yesterday
"Wheeee!" noticed that it is marked with "ASEL" - so I guess it has changed
recently.
Dave Mould
Mark Kolber
>In article <36ae0...@news.netwalk.com>, Jim wrote:
>I know that in the US you need an additional endorsement for a taildragger,
>but is the opposite also the case? i.e. if you did all your training in a
>Chipmunk, would you *legally* need an additional endorsement to fly a C150?
>Not talking about what's prudent, just what's legal.
>
No. The taildragger endorsement is one of a group of lightplane "type"
ratings (the other common ones being complex and high performance)
======================================
______|______ Mark Kolber
\(o)/ Denver, Colorado
o O o mko...@nospam.usa.net
======================================
Remove "nospam" for e-mail
Ron Natalie
>
> No. The taildragger endorsement is one of a group of lightplane "type"
> ratings (the other common ones being complex and high performance)
I know you put "type" in quotation marks, but really you should
have put "rating" in quotation marks. It is not a rating (type
or otherwise), but mearly a requirement for training. Your
ASEL rating is just fine for flying tail draggers.
For Dave, the US rule reads: no one may be pilot in command
of a conventional gear aircraft unless....
Conventional gear, complex, and HP pilots must have received
instruction in such planes. If you do your primary instruction
(and more than a few have) you're just ahead of the game.
Mark Kolber
>I know you put "type" in quotation marks, but really you should
>have put "rating" in quotation marks. It is not a rating (type
>or otherwise), but mearly a requirement for training. Your
>ASEL rating is just fine for flying tail draggers.
Quite right.