Is gliding becoming too expensive?
David Waugh
enjoy my gliding very much, but am starting to feel, that gliding is not
representing good value in terms of time and money.
Last year I got my PPL. The attraction of being able to turn up and fly at
a convienient time is obvious. I can also take friends up flying. I also
don't have to organise a retrieve crew and can (more or less) guarantee
when I will be returning home. My PPL qualification is also valid in other
European countries.
I am at the moment, a PhD student, so I'm more or less self employed.
However, no doubt in the future when I get a job, I won't have as much
free time. With an hour in an aircraft costing slightly more than an a
couple of aerotows and an hour in a glider, and with powered flying being
more accessible, I'm beginning to feel that in the future I may give up
gliding.
This is a very unfortunate case. I don't want to be part of the decline of
gliding, but am troubled that it is only accessible to those with both a
lot of time and money.
With a powered aircraft obtainable for the price of a glider, and although
the running cost are higher, I am considering my future in gliding.
Any comments?
David
pas...@my-deja.com
I´m very sorry to hear that you have such a problem. But you can´t
compare gliding and motorflying. Those are so different, only thing that
is same is that both flies.
I think you need to born to gliderpilot. I´m defending gliding off
coure, cause I love it. Somebody else might say just opposite.
There is many things that you can´t get anywhere else than sit in a
glider. You win yourself every time when you are up there. I can´t say
same about Mflying.
Gliding is becoming more and more expensive every year. Unfortunately.
New gliders are very expensive. You need to have tons of money to buy
it. Same thing involves clubs too. Average age for glider is too much.
If you flying just for fun, then older gliders are as good as new ones.
BUT if you like to compete, then you budget need to be huge.
I just came back from Australia (first time there) and I notised that
average age for gliderpilots there is quite high. And those who flies
they are wealthy people. I saw too less youg people there. I think it is
same everywhere.
Only thing that clubs can offer cheaper glidinghours is, that all club
members does work, but then there is a time problem and many people
don´t like to do that.
I´m fortunated that my club has 8 planes and I have (almoust) my own
one. Club has Discus, LS-4, Junior, Astir, Blanik L-23, Puchacz, 2x K6
and K8. And gliding is quite cheap. If I pay 600USD I can fly whole
summer including as many winch launches as I want. But that is in
Finland.
I hope that you won´t give up gliding, cause it is THE BEST what you can
do with you pants on...
Pasi
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Macha
over the course of their career. As a physician, I had very
little time and indeed gave up gliding for seven years. Young
people aged < 40 tend to have very limited time with a
developing career and family committments. There is little
doubt that gliding is very time consuming and the ability to
turn up and fly in a predictable way is very attractive.
Of course there is a large cost difference between flying and
soaring. Much of the 'cheaper' availability of gliding time, is
due to the subsidy of free unskilled and skilled labour,
provided by club members gratis. Maybe for people who want to
glide, but cannot afford the time the answer might be to charge
them at a different rate (more expensive). How the ordinary
members might respond to that arrangement would be interesting.
We do loose some members to power flying, probably for the
reasons you outline. Most however tug and glide together.
However most are older and once one gets > 50 then maybe one's
perspectives and priorities change.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Jean Richard
>
> I'm 25 and have about 200 hours in gliders, as well as a silver badge. I
> enjoy my gliding very much, but am starting to feel, that gliding is not
> representing good value in terms of time and money.
Money, money, money... I'm sure you are living in USA ;-)))
If you think that soaring must be evaluated in terms of value for money,
then you must give up. You definitly don't like (or love) soaring. You love
money, but not soaring, then go for money, not for soaring.
> Last year I got my PPL. The attraction of being able to turn up and fly at
> a convienient time is obvious.
I got my PPL well before my glider licence. The only reason to keep my PPL
valid is because I want to be able to do aerotow (not because I like it, but
to help club in case of need).
> I can also take friends up flying.
I got a lot of good friends (an a few ennemies, but I don't care) in the
soaring world, and from around the World. But I don't remember it was the
case with motor flying. Motor flying is mainly a world for indivualist
people and getting friends in that kind of world is not easy.
Taking friends up flying don't last long. At first, they all want to do a
flight with you, but next time, they are trying to find some reasons to
refuse your invitation. Unless you have thousand of friends, switching to
motor flying because you want to take friends with you can mean that you
will give up in less than three years.
> I also
> don't have to organise a retrieve crew and can (more or less) guarantee
> when I will be returning home.
If the weather permits...
> My PPL qualification is also valid in other European countries.
I have flown many times in Europe with my Canadian glider licence. I just
need a licence validation which can be easily obtain by mail.
> I am at the moment, a PhD student, so I'm more or less self employed.
> However, no doubt in the future when I get a job, I won't have as much
> free time.
It's your choice.
> With an hour in an aircraft costing slightly more than an a
> couple of aerotows and an hour in a glider, and with powered flying being
> more accessible, I'm beginning to feel that in the future I may give up
> gliding.
Do it now !
> This is a very unfortunate case. I don't want to be part of the decline of
> gliding,
You won't.
> but am troubled that it is only accessible to those with both a
> lot of time and money.
You need time and to get time, you need love. Money is only a problem if you
are too individualist and want to buy your own private glider and don't want
to share it with friends.
> With a powered aircraft obtainable for the price of a glider, and although
> the running cost are higher, I am considering my future in gliding.
The powered aircrafts I prefer have big fuselage, two or more big turbofan engines,
and bring you across the Ocean to do soaring in other countries where you meet
friends in soaring clubs...
I hope you enjoyed your two year soaring life ! I hope you will get the same
happiness with motor flying, even if the increasing cost of fuel can mean that
before long, you will get 2,99 $/hour less for your money than with soaring ;-))
Jean
Bert Willing
pas...@my-deja.com wrote:
> David,
>
> I惴 very sorry to hear that you have such a problem. But you can愒
> compare gliding and motorflying. Those are so different, only thing that
> is same is that both flies.
>
That's a very good point.
>
> <snip>
>
> Gliding is becoming more and more expensive every year. Unfortunately.
> New gliders are very expensive. You need to have tons of money to buy
> it. Same thing involves clubs too. Average age for glider is too much.
> If you flying just for fun, then older gliders are as good as new ones.
> BUT if you like to compete, then you budget need to be huge.
>
That's not true at all. My old club where I started to fly didn't rise its
fees more than from 12 DEM to 15 DEM per hour *within 20 years*.
Then, an ASW19 did cost something like 35.000 DEM 20 years ago, and it
still does cost DEM 35.000, and it will do the same job as it did 20 years
ago, with a virtually unlimited life span. Of course, if you want 10 points
of L/D more for the same wing span, you're talking big money.
So, taken into account inflation, the cost has gone down.
If you want to compete, you don't need a huge budget as - at least in
Europe - you can race in the club class along with ASW19, LS1, DG100 and
the like. Of course, racing the FAI 15m ships is another story, and racing
open class ships is even more expensive. But even there, you have this
strange idea of a syndicate.
>
> <snip>
> I惴 fortunated that my club has 8 planes and I have (almoust) my own
> one. Club has Discus, LS-4, Junior, Astir, Blanik L-23, Puchacz, 2x K6
> and K8. And gliding is quite cheap. If I pay 600USD I can fly whole
> summer including as many winch launches as I want. But that is in
> Finland.
>
And it could be Germany, it could be France (maybe a few FF more), and it
may be Switzerland (also a few CHF more, but the principle is the same).
>
> I hope that you won愒 give up gliding, cause it is THE BEST what you can
> do with you pants on...
>
Yep.
--
Bert Willing
-----------
Caproni Calif A21S D-6600
Come fly at La Motte du Caire in the French Alps:
http://www.decollage.org/la_motte/
Barbara MacLean
from the gut. It takes a lot more rationalization to step away from it for
awhile when we know that other things in our lives should take precedence.
David Waugh wrote in message ...
>I'm 25 and have about 200 hours in gliders, as well as a silver badge. I
>enjoy my gliding very much, but am starting to feel, that gliding is not
>representing good value in terms of time and money.
>
>Last year I got my PPL. The attraction of being able to turn up and fly at
>a convienient time is obvious. I can also take friends up flying. I also
>don't have to organise a retrieve crew and can (more or less) guarantee
>when I will be returning home. My PPL qualification is also valid in other
>European countries.
>
>I am at the moment, a PhD student, so I'm more or less self employed.
>However, no doubt in the future when I get a job, I won't have as much
>free time. With an hour in an aircraft costing slightly more than an a
>couple of aerotows and an hour in a glider, and with powered flying being
>more accessible, I'm beginning to feel that in the future I may give up
>gliding.
>
>This is a very unfortunate case. I don't want to be part of the decline of
>gliding, but am troubled that it is only accessible to those with both a
>lot of time and money.
>
>With a powered aircraft obtainable for the price of a glider, and although
>the running cost are higher, I am considering my future in gliding.
>
>Any comments?
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
pas...@my-deja.com
yep, true. But if you want to be a GOOD comp. pilot, you need to fly at
least 3 competitions on a year. And if you manage to get in the team
(national) and you go to Europeans or Worlds, no matter where the comp
is held, the money is huge which is needed.
But even there, you have this
> strange idea of a syndicate.
>
> >
> > <snip>
>
> > I惴 fortunated that my club has 8 planes and I have (almoust) my own
> > one. Club has Discus, LS-4, Junior, Astir, Blanik L-23, Puchacz, 2x
K6
> > and K8. And gliding is quite cheap. If I pay 600USD I can fly whole
> > summer including as many winch launches as I want. But that is in
> > Finland.
> >
>
> And it could be Germany, it could be France (maybe a few FF more), and
it
> may be Switzerland (also a few CHF more, but the principle is the
same).
>
> >
> > I hope that you won愒 give up gliding, cause it is THE BEST what you
can
> > do with you pants on...
> >
>
> Yep.
>
> --
> Bert Willing
> -----------
> Caproni Calif A21S D-6600
> Come fly at La Motte du Caire in the French Alps:
> http://www.decollage.org/la_motte/
>
> http://www.ir-microsystems.com
>
>
Gary Boggs
> do with you pants on...
>
I think it even ranks right up there with things you can do with your pants
off!!!!
We keep it up for hours, and then a whole crowd delights in it when we dump
our ballast into the setting sun.
Richard B
Jean Richard <j.ri...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
<snipped in the cause of common decency>
Most unkind, Jean, and demonstrates quite well why I don't have
anything to do with clubs.
As he states that he is a student, his income is probably very low, and
might even be sporadic. He might even have a family, and if he doesn't
give them the first priority, I would consider him less than a man.
There is a big difference between the "need" to have air under your
wings and a roof over your head.
But to look at the costs, and I am a student, not a pilot, there is no
way that it's cheap. My plane costs me $300 per month for the payment,
plus hangar and tiedown. Instruction costs roughly $160 per hour,
tows, rental on the trainer, and instructor. Granted, this is not
going to last forever, but has to be considered.
Then there is the availability of glider fields, a place to find
instructors, towplane, etc. Were it not for the fact that it's only 18
miles to the nearest one, I would not be flying at all, and if it were
a club instead of a commercial operation, I would not be flying. The
next one is some 60 miles to the north, too far to make sense to drive
for an hours flight. The glider operation only does business on
weekends, so the days I can fly are limited. Another factor.
I am on a fixed, more or less, income, retired but working part time.
If it were not for the fact that I have no family, I could not afford
it under any circumstances.
Among my small circle of friends, I have both glider and power pilots,
and when it comes to flight, there is no difference between them. All
of them are good people. If you are having problems with the power
pilots, I suggest that maybe you have an attitude problem. I also have
many different, some non related, interests, none of which I am willing
to sacrifice for the others.
And to David, you do what you have to do, based on your circumstances
and finances at the time. Flight of any kind is expensive, and I had
to wait many years to be able to get where I am now. IF it comes to a
choice of providing for a family or soaring, there is no choice.
Soaring has to lose. Otherwise, enjoy.
Richard B.
Thomas Knauff
dozens of years and sell it for more than you paid.
A tow costs some $26.00 and you can fly all day long.
Flying gliders can be a real aviation bargain.
--
Thomas Knauff
Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies
3523 South Eagle Valley Road
Julian, Pa 16844
(814) 355 2483
Fax (814) 355 2633
Email: kna...@eglider.org
www.eglider.org
"David Waugh" <ab95...@ecs.pc.Cranfield.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.4.10.100031...@farm1.central.cranfield.ac.uk
Bert Willing
Richard B wrote:
> In article <38D629...@sympatico.ca>,
> Jean Richard <j.ri...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> <snipped in the cause of common decency>
>
> Most unkind, Jean, and demonstrates quite well why I don't have
> anything to do with clubs.
>
Yes and no, Richard. Jean took him wrong - the UK-based email address of
David suggests that he lives somewhere in the vicinity of Europe, but not
in the US.
If you want to go soaring, you will need either time or money (if you have
both, all the better ...). But you still have to love it, and making a
calculation like "fun per invested buck" or "fun per invested hour" will
always show a desastrous result. You have to love it, or you will drop out
sooner or later. Once you love it, you can always choose what you like the
most - xc flying, local flying or whatsoever.
In Europe, the system works differently as in the US (basically because
the number of sailplane pilots per square km is orders of magnitude higher
over here), and nobody has to pay prices like you to go soaring if he has
some time on his hands. If you can spare something like $1000 per year, it
will easily pay you two year's training and your license.
Sorry if David should drop out, but well, everybody has to make his
choice. And as a tow pilot, he still can be useful to the soaring
community :-)
--
Richard B
Bert Willing <bert.w...@go-away.epfl.ch> wrote:
>
>
> >
> If you want to go soaring, you will need either time or money (if you
have
> both, all the better ...). But you still have to love it, and making a
> calculation like "fun per invested buck" or "fun per invested hour"
will
> always show a desastrous result.
As one that used to fish quite a bit, I know this very well. I've had
more than my share of $75 per pound bass, and I don't even like bass.
If I had to put a "return to investment" on soaring, I wouldn't be
doing it. However, I do know from my younger days that sometimes it
doesn't matter how much you love an activity, pressures of doing what
is right for your obligations MUST take the first priority. I have my
suspicions that this is what David is running into, but unfortunately,
can't offer him any solutions. As far as "fun per invested hour", as
every hour I invest is fun, it balances out. I even get fun from my
part time job (But I'm serving 3 weeks notice today anyhow).
Michael
> Last year I got my PPL. The attraction of being able to turn up and fly at
> a convienient time is obvious. I can also take friends up flying. I also
> don't have to organise a retrieve crew and can (more or less) guarantee
> when I will be returning home.
Yes, an airplane wins hands-down for convenience and utility. No doubt.
> However, no doubt in the future when I get a job, I won't have as much
> free time. With an hour in an aircraft costing slightly more than an a
> couple of aerotows and an hour in a glider, and with powered flying being
> more accessible, I'm beginning to feel that in the future I may give up
> gliding.
It happens. Gliding is cheaper than powered flying only in clubs, where
your labor is added to your money to keep things going. If your time
is at a premium and/or you need to be able to schedule your recreation
in advance, being part of a soaring club is not a great idea. When there
is no lift, a powered plane is a lot more fun than a glider. And if you are
paying for tows and not staying up, it's also cheaper. If you want to soar,
you have to be able to go when the weather is good, and not everyone
has that sort of flexibility.
> This is a very unfortunate case. I don't want to be part of the decline of
> gliding, but am troubled that it is only accessible to those with both a
> lot of time and money.
Actually, all of aviation is like that. If your idea of flying is going to
be
renting an airplane once in a while for a short trip, then you will soon
drop out anyway...
Look, I'd be the last person in the world to steer you one way or another.
I love airplanes, gliders, parachutes, balloons, helicopters, ultralights,
and
every other flying thing there is. If it flies, I'm all for it. I own a
parachute,
a glider, and an airplane. As far as I'm concerned they're all great,
they're
all about getting in the air, and all the people who put on airs about how
only this one or that one is real flying are just snobs. Pick the sort of
flying that works for you. If time and money are at a premium, pick one
and stick to it.
If powered flying is a better fit for your lifestyle, do it. It too has
it's own
beauty and adventure (ravings of soaring zealots to the contrary) and you
might find that the local soaring club can really use a tug pilot.
Michael
Jean Richard
> Most unkind, Jean, and demonstrates quite well why I don't have
> anything to do with clubs.
Don't miss the points Richard if you want to understand them.
> As he states that he is a student, his income is probably very low, and
> might even be sporadic.
Maybe, but since he want to go with power flying instead of soaring, we
may think that available money was not the point.
> He might even have a family, and if he doesn't
> give them the first priority, I would consider him less than a man.
> There is a big difference between the "need" to have air under your
> wings and a roof over your head.
That's right and I agree with you on that point.
> But to look at the costs, and I am a student, not a pilot, there is no
> way that it's cheap. My plane costs me $300 per month for the payment,
> plus hangar and tiedown. Instruction costs roughly $160 per hour,
> tows, rental on the trainer, and instructor. Granted, this is not
> going to last forever, but has to be considered.
North America is probably one of the very few countries where it is
possible to fly a power airplane for a lower hourly cost than a
glider. It is due to low cost of fuel. But it's not true in Europe,
including UK.
> Among my small circle of friends, I have both glider and power pilots,
> and when it comes to flight, there is no difference between them. All
> of them are good people. If you are having problems with the power
> pilots, I suggest that maybe you have an attitude problem.
You missed the point. I've been flying in soaring club since 1986 and due
to the club associative nature, I got a lot of friends. I started flying
in 1972 at commercial flying school (motor) and I needed to bring my
friends to the aerodrome since it was not the best place to get new ones.
Not because power pilots are good or not good. But because people going
there are using telephone to do reservation for an airplane, arrive at
the field 15 minutes before their scheduled hour, bring their own friends,
pay their bill 15 minutes after landing and then go away with their friends.
In no way they are coming at the airfield to get new friends.
The first morning I joined soaring club, I didn't know anybody on
the field. After the first day, it became different, and I just
discovered some kind of friendship that I never met in commercial
schools. And I know many people who shared the same kind of
experience.
If you want to invest only the time you can log in your logbook,
soaring clubs are not for you.
If your life must be entered on a schedule 365 days per year, soaring
is not for you.
If you quit soaring and thereafter discover that it's missing you,
then you won't have to ask if soaring can give you more fun for your
money than activity x or activity y.
If you are unfit for soaring, quitting soaring won't really contribute
to its decline. It may be the opposite.
People must be able to question themselves.
Most of the time, I will try to keep people to soaring. But I avoid any
kind of insistance if people decided to quit. I have good friends who are
« ex-soarers » and they are still good friends.
And last of all... Lack of money is an acceptable reason to quit soaring.
Interest or any kind of money return on money investment is not an
acceptable reason to influence your decisions where soaring is concerned.
Jean
Wallace Berry
Thomas Knauff <kna...@eglider.org> wrote:
> You can buy a share of a good glider for a few thousand dollars. Fly it for
> dozens of years and sell it for more than you paid.
>
> A tow costs some $26.00 and you can fly all day long.
>
> Flying gliders can be a real aviation bargain.
>
> --
> Thomas Knauff
> Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies
> 3523 South Eagle Valley Road
> Julian, Pa 16844
>
WooooHaaaaw! That's the kind of BS that got me into this sport in the
first place. Absolutely true and absolutely misleading. Yes, you can
buy a share of a good glider for a few thousand. You can even buy a
whole good glider for a few thousand. Yep, a tow only costs $26 or so.
And yes, often you can stay up all day. BUT, that's not what you're
gonna do. You are going to join a club or get chummy with a commercial
operator. No, that's not right. You will join several clubs and get
chummy with several commercial operators. You will spend all your money
and all your time pursuing the sport and only a minimal fraction of
that time will actually be flying. You will donate large amounts of
cash from your savings to help the club buy a new (choose as many as
apply) glider, towplane, hangar,etc. You will sneak off from work to
work on the (choose as many as apply) glider, towplane, hangar,etc. You
will end up owning shares of (again choose as many as apply) a ratty
1-26, ratty Ka-6, two-place in need of restoration, vintage
rag-and-stick in-a-basket, exotic fiberglass bird in need of new
gel-coat. You will destroy tires and drivertrains on a series of
vehicles as you drag a trailer thousands of miles so that you watch it
rain for 6 days straight. You will become friends with the best people
in the world. You will miss your soaring friends at the "old" club(s)
where you used to live. And you will love it and you won't be able to
stop...
Have fun and fly safe.
Wally
Richard B
Jean Richard <j.ri...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Richard B a écrit :
>
> > Most unkind, Jean, and demonstrates quite well why I don't have
> > anything to do with clubs.
>
> Don't miss the points Richard if you want to understand them.
I did not miss the points Jean, Not even the point that knowing in the
UK, there are many clubs, but I don't believe any commercial
operations. Which means that there is a considerable fixed cost
involved with it, which may make renting a powered ship occasionally
more feasible.
>
>
> North America is probably one of the very few countries where it is
> possible to fly a power airplane for a lower hourly cost than a
> glider. It is due to low cost of fuel. But it's not true in Europe,
> including UK.
IF someone knows where that might be in the midwest, please let me
know. I haven't found anyplace that even a Cessna 150 was cheaper than
flying the glider.
>
> You missed the point. I've been flying in soaring club since 1986 and
due
> to the club associative nature, I got a lot of friends. I started
flying
> in 1972 at commercial flying school (motor) and I needed to bring my
> friends to the aerodrome since it was not the best place to get new
ones.
Maybe I'm being selfish here, but I go to the gliderport to fly, and
watch others fly. IF I talk with someone else or not is of no
consequence. If that makes me a rotten SOB, so be it. Not to say that
I am totally unfriendly, I'm not, but I don't pursue it beyond that
point. However, I am NEVER as blunt and cold as your answer to David
was. I also have another undesireable trait, I do not recognize
the "big names", and don't really care. My circle of friends is small
because I choose to keep it that way. They are, however, tolerant.
>
> The first morning I joined soaring club, I didn't know anybody on
> the field. After the first day, it became different, and I just
> discovered some kind of friendship that I never met in commercial
> schools. And I know many people who shared the same kind of
> experience.
And my one and only incursion to a club field was just exactly the
opposite, I don't need that, and will never return under any
circumstance.
>
> If you want to invest only the time you can log in your logbook,
> soaring clubs are not for you.
If I had, I would not have bought my own plane.
>
> If your life must be entered on a schedule 365 days per year, soaring
> is not for you.
No schedule here at all, what ever I want to do, whenever I choose to
do it.
>
> People must be able to question themselves.
>
In my line of work, I have to question my capabilities, my knowledge,
and my skills every day, and be able to answer honestly. It is no
stranger to me.
Ian Johnston
: In article <sYsB4.14647$kv6.7...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
: Thomas Knauff <kna...@eglider.org> wrote:
:> Flying gliders can be a real aviation bargain.
: WooooHaaaaw! That's the kind of BS that got me into this sport in the
: first place.
My experience is that no matter what I fly, or where, gliding costs me
25 pounds an hour by the time I include travel to the airfield, insurance,
maintenance, launches and so on.
Ian
Robert Ehrlich
In my case, gliding near Paris at Centre Aeronautique de Beynes, my total expense
for the last season (not including travel to the airfield) was approximativeley
17000 F for a total of nearly 160 hours, i.e. the hourly cost was a little above
100 F. Power flying in France costs usually nearly 600 F/h, altough you can find
in some clubs some old low power planes (e.g. Piper J3) for half of this rate, but
with no cross country capability. Concerning this last point, the last season was
the one where I started cross-country flight, which resulted in a total of 1800 km,
longest flight 279 km. Clearly for me gliding is much cheaper than power flying.
On the other hand I spent a few time at Hollister, in California (USA) where are
both a commercial glider operator and a power plane operator and there power flying
is cheaper.
Martin
> > If you want to compete, you don't need a huge budget as - at least in
> > Europe
> - you can race in the club class along with ASW19, LS1, DG100
> and
> > the like. Of course, racing the FAI 15m ships is another story, and
> racing
> > open class ships is even more expensive.
>
> yep, true. But if you want to be a GOOD comp. pilot, you need to fly at
> least 3 competitions on a year. And if you manage to get in the team
> (national) and you go to Europeans or Worlds, no matter where the comp
> is held, the money is huge which is needed.
Competing in the world champignonships is expensive in every sport.
Martin
Brad <Brad Hill >
Wallace Berry <ber...@acesag.auburn.edu> wrote:
> In article <sYsB4.14647$kv6.7...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Thomas Knauff <kna...@eglider.org> wrote:
>
it for
> > dozens of years and sell it for more than you paid.
> >
> > A tow costs some $26.00 and you can fly all day long.
> >
> >
> > Thomas Knauff
> > Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies
> > 3523 South Eagle Valley Road
> > Julian, Pa 16844
> >
>
OR.........you can buy a Russia Motorglider and be totally independant
of all the club, FBO.....b.s..........Or, any other affordable used
motorglider on the market..........too bad there aren't many K-14's
around anymore........and even more so, it's too bad there are no
manufacturers making anything like the K-14, something us po' folk can
fly and enjoy, and still eat solid food!
Brad
DonDLHMN
fun" for whatever their sport of choice is. They then endlessly agonize over
whether they are getting their money's worth. Why? Either you feel like you had
a good time and spent money that you could AFFORD to spend, or you spent money
you really shouldn't have spent. If you spent the rent money, the grocery
money, or money earmarked for something else important, shame on you. If you
spend discretionary money on your choice of hobby (ies), no matter what it is
(they are), and you enjoy that (those) hobby (ies), GREAT! Have fun. It is up
to each individual to figure out what they can affford and how much pleasure
they derive. If you are young and can't afford the things you want, guess what?
It was that way for all of us that didn't inherit millions! Go to school.
Study. Graduate. Get a job. Make a little money. Get promoted. Make MORE money.
Etc, etc.You will then find that the problem remains the same: Money vs
pleasure. The toys just change and get more expensive. Remember the old saying
about the difference between the men and the boys is just the price of their
toys? Its true. Decisions, decisions. Seems that is what life is all about
unless you are an ascetic and live in a cave somewhere.
I guess my point is that if you like it and can afford it, DO IT! If you can't
afford it or think its not worth the cost, DON'T!
Don Johnson
Fred Steadman
power experience will make you a better glider pilot, should you ever
come back.
Power pilots as well as glider pilots feel that "What now" letdown after
getting the PPL. A lot of the fun there is to be had in flying is in
getting the licenses, or in soaring, the badges. When you don't have an
instructor to organize your flying time, you have to learn to organize
it yourself, and find goals to pursue that you feel are worthwhile.
Either type of flying will take time and money, all you can give it if
you really stick with it.
Good Luck. Have fun.
--
Fred Steadman
Irving, Texas
David Waugh wrote:
>
> I'm 25 and have about 200 hours in gliders, as well as a silver badge. I
> enjoy my gliding very much, but am starting to feel, that gliding is not
> representing good value in terms of time and money.
>
> Last year I got my PPL. The attraction of being able to turn up and fly at
> a convienient time is obvious. I can also take friends up flying. I also
> don't have to organise a retrieve crew and can (more or less) guarantee
> when I will be returning home. My PPL qualification is also valid in other
> European countries.
>
> I am at the moment, a PhD student, so I'm more or less self employed.
> However, no doubt in the future when I get a job, I won't have as much
> free time. With an hour in an aircraft costing slightly more than an a
> couple of aerotows and an hour in a glider, and with powered flying being
> more accessible, I'm beginning to feel that in the future I may give up
> gliding.
>
> This is a very unfortunate case. I don't want to be part of the decline of
> gliding, but am troubled that it is only accessible to those with both a
> lot of time and money.
>
Fred Steadman
You're a poet.
--
Fred Steadman
Irving, Texas
BTIZ
lifestyle".. the friends that we make.... and never loose.. because of a
common interest..
Soaring and Soaring Clubs... I'd rather spend my money there.. then with the
local shrink... great therapy when you just have to get out of the house or
forget about work for a while..
"Fred Steadman" <fst...@fastlane.net> wrote in message
news:A541C47328EB2939.6D5C16F2...@lp.airnews.net...
Bishops
pilots are faced with a 3 to 6 hr round-trip, then if it's a club and IF the
towplane pilot & crew shows, it's up to a four hour wait for a tow. You can
pretty much count on killing a day for a shot at a flight. Since you really
ought to stay current to pursue this sport, you kill a lot of days. When I
was single I didn't worry that much about the time it took. But life isn't
about just me, and I won't spend that kind of time. If there was a
commercial operation with 50 or even a hundred miles would I jump back in?
Maybe. Bring one within 20 miles and I'm there.
Also, the point about powered flying and soaring being very different sports
is, I think, pretty true. I suspect hang gliding or even sailing might push
some of the same buttons a little better than droning about in a 172. But a
Champ and Cubs seem to come kind of close, and they thermal OK too. And yes,
you can do cross country in a J-3. It's more work than fun, but it's still
better than driving.