SZD Standard Class Glider
joelmor...@worldnet.att.net
Interested in comments from pilots familiar with current
SZD Standard Class. How does it handle on takeoff, tow,
flight and landing? Any quirks? Stall and spin
characteristics? Rigging? Quality of construction?
Factory support? Any other relevant comments?
Pls email feedback to joelmor...@worldnet.att.net.
Do you consider it an appropriate ship for a relatively
low time pilot moving up from a Slingsby
Dart?
Joel
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Bob May
joelmor...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> Interested in comments from pilots familiar with current
> SZD Standard Class. How does it handle on takeoff, tow,
> flight and landing? Any quirks? Stall and spin
> characteristics? Rigging? Quality of construction?
> Factory support? Any other relevant comments?
> Pls email feedback to joelmor...@worldnet.att.net.
> Do you consider it an appropriate ship for a relatively
> low time pilot moving up from a Slingsby
> Dart?
was the first high performance single place glider I flew.
IMHO it is an excellent glider. It has no bad flying characteristics or
quirks of any kind. Stalls are very benign, with lots of warning
beforehand. If you stall it while thermalling, the inside wing sometimes
drops slightly, but I have never had it go into a spin. In fact I have
never been able to force it to spin. One of my partners has, and reports
that recovery is quick and easy.
Due to the very tall landing gear you have a very high angle of attack at
the beginning of the take off roll. Consequently there is little
alieron authority early on, if a wing drops the rudder can be used to
pick it up. It takes a few flights to get the hang of, but is no
problem.
Also due to the tall landing gear and the supine driving position, your
immedieate forward vision during landing is not as good as in some other
gliders. I realy on my perhiperial vision to judge the last few feet of
height when landing. Again, this is no problem once you get used to the
perspective.
Depending on the CG location the tail wheel can lift when the wheel brake
is applied. If you need to stop quickly it is possible to have the nose
hit the ground. This is probably the only major fault of the ship.
Rigging is straight forward once you learn the tricks. Controls are
manually connected, but are easy to reach, and have very positive locks
(not l'hoteilier). I think current production has automatic hook-up.
Construction and quality nop notch, with the exception of a few trim
fasteners that tend to rust. These are easily replaceable with
stainless. Factory support is so-so it the US.
All in all I have been very happy, and would purchase another without
hesitation.
Bob May
Don Golden
I am a half owner of an SZD-48 Jantar Standard II and I believe it is
a fantastic ship. For my partner and me it is our first glass
ship so we cannot compare it to the LS's, SH's and DG's of the
world, but we both appreciate many aspects of the aircraft.
It is very well made - top notch fittings and components that work
well and are very sturdy. It is relatively easy to rig with
manual aileron and elevator hookups. The fittings are very
straightforward to attach and verify.
The cockpit is looonngg. I am about 6' 1" and I fly with a couple
of seatback notches available for growth as well as at least one
rudder pedal notch. The cockpit is somewhat narrow - or perhaps
I am not so narrow as I would like to imagine. I work hard to stow
everything I want to stow for a long flight. My partner has built
mounts for a turnpoint camera on the left side of the cockpit and
for the GPS on the right and these are just right in terms of
space utilization and accessibility.
The aircraft is particularly great looking with a really sleek
profile.
The tall main gear and the semireclined pilot's position
make looking over the nose at the towplane a little tedious.
Flying characteristics are great: docile stall, very docile
accelerated stall. Good control balance, light feel. Doesn't
take a lot of work to fly for a long time. Very effective
spoilers (above and below the wings) cause some shaking and
shuddering when partially deployed.
The very effective wheel brake and the relationship of the
CG to the position of the main can allow a nose over on
landing.
I wouldn't change much about the airplane and I would
certainly buy another....
Mike Durrant
The only comments I would make are that it can be difficult to get the
Std Jantar II to climb with the later Std class ships like the LS4/DG300
etc, especially in weak conditions. There is a real trick to getting the
Jantar right back on the stall when empty on climb. This takes a while
to get the best results.
On the other hand when you have full water on a strong day it is a lead
sled at 50+ kg and apears to outrun (or at least stay with) the later
Std class ships.
In terms of bang for your buck they are hard to go past. Also the paint
finish means that you don't have all of the Gelcoat cracking issues that
impact others.
Regards,
Mike Durrant
VH-GOD
John Orton
I agree with Mike's comments and wish to add a few.
Firstly my qualification to speak. I have flown/owned an Astir CS for around
11 years (first glider) I now co-own a Jantar Std3 for the last two years and
have flown the clubs Jantar Std 2 in a state compettion.
The Jantar is a better made glider than the Grob Astir CS. But on a weak day I
think that I would rather be in the Astir. I weigh in at around 92 Kgs and in
the Jantar I would like some more back trim or to fiddle with the C.G.
position to help with thermalling. The Jantar gives better roll control at low
speed but is harder to keep the speed control whilst thermalling.
Regards
****************************************************************
John Orton, Professional Officer Physics
School of Physical Sciences, Engineering and Technology
Murdoch University, Murdoch WA 6150, Australia
Phone : (09) 360 2556
Fax : (09) 310 1711
Email: or...@murdoch.edu.au
****************************************************************
Robert Simpson
Mike Durrant wrote:
>
> The only comments I would make are that it can be difficult to get the
> Std Jantar II to climb with the later Std class ships like the LS4/DG300
> etc, especially in weak conditions. There is a real trick to getting the
> Jantar right back on the stall when empty on climb. This takes a while
The other thing that helps is having the CofG position right at the aft limit.
You may not want to do this the first few times you fly it as it certainly
makes the Jantar quite 'twitchy' (and spins are quite interesting :-). I've
noticed that the SZD55 seems not to climb too well if the CofG is too far
forward - perhaps it's a common feature of SZD gliders.
> In terms of bang for your buck they are hard to go past. Also the paint
> finish means that you don't have all of the Gelcoat cracking issues that
> impact others.
...but unless you keep it absolutely dry, you will get bubbles forming in
the paintwork due to osmosis. This has happenned to all the Jantars in the
UK. I actually ended up replacing the paint on the tailplane with gelcoat.
I still think it's an excellent glider and amazing value for money. Had it
not been for an unfortunate incident involving a hedge, I would still be
flying one :-(
blac...@aol.com
If I recall the original question of this thread, the inquiry was
concerning a SZD standard class glider. The Jantars (SZD 48-2 & SZD 48-3)
are standard class, as is the Jantar Junior (SZD 51-1), and the much newer
SZD-55-1. While they are all standard class, there is a vast difference
between all these ships.
The SZD 48-2 (Jantar Std. 2) and SZD 48-3 (Jantar Std. 3) are older
generation standard class ships, from the same era and competitive with
the DG-300 and the LS-4. The SZD 51-1 (Jantar Junior) is a medium
performance, easy-to-fly, club type standard class glider. The SZD 55-1 is
one of the latest standard class gliders from Poland and is competitive
with the Discus. The 55-1 is a light weight competition ship that becomes
competitive when carrying water. I am told it is also a little on the
twichy side, particulary on the ground where it runs out of aileron
control rather quickly.
If we want to discuss SZD standard class gliders, specificity is required!
Bob Lacovara
"2BT" Jantar Std. 3 - SZD 48-3
Doug Haluza
blac...@aol.com wrote in article
<19961204153...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>
> If we want to discuss SZD standard class gliders, specificity is
required!
>
Oh they're all crap!
(Just kidding ;-) )
P.S. How's it going at PGC?
Jarek Mosiejewski
blac...@aol.com wrote in article
<19961204153...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> If I recall the original question of this thread, the inquiry was
> concerning a SZD standard class glider. The Jantars (SZD 48-2 & SZD 48-3)
> are standard class, as is the Jantar Junior (SZD 51-1), and the much
newer
> SZD-55-1. While they are all standard class, there is a vast difference
> between all these ships.
>
Jantar (Polish word for amber) has never been used in relation to SZD 51-1
Junior nor SZD 55-1. Name Jantar was used for the first time for the 19
meter open class gliders built specifically for the WGC in Vrsac in 1972
(third place in open class by Stanislaw Kluk). Only two prototypes were
built and they were called Jantar X. This was followed by the 19 meter open
class glider Jantar 1 and Jantar Std first used internationally in Waikerie
(1974). Jantar 1 evolved into Jantar 2A and Jantar 2B (SZD-42-2) - 20.5m
open class gliders. Jantar Standard was followed by Jantar Standard 2 and
Jantar Standard 3 (SZD-48...).
Apart from these no other Polish gliders have been named Jantar.
--
Jarek Mosiejewski
>>> jar...@netspace.net.au
blac...@aol.com
>Jantar (Polish word for amber) has never been used in relation to SZD
51-1
>Junior nor SZD 55-1.
I stand corrected, you are right that the SZD 51-1 is referred to as the
Junior and not the *Jantar* Junior. What we were discussing however, was
SZD standard class gliders - 15 meter span w/o flaps. The 48-2 and 3's,
the 51-1 and the 55-1 are all standard class machines.
Bob Lacovara "2BT"
eagl...@aol.com
In article <19961205200...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
blac...@aol.com writes:
>I stand corrected, you are right that the SZD 51-1 is referred to as the
>Junior and not the *Jantar* Junior. What we were discussing however, was
>SZD standard class gliders - 15 meter span w/o flaps. The 48-2 and 3's,
>the 51-1 and the 55-1 are all standard class machines.
>Bob Lacovara "2BT"
>
>
Don't forget the SZD-41A. It is also known as the Jantar Std I. Mine was
built in 1977 and I think it is a great glider. Easy to fly in all
aspects, well built, roomy cockpit, and it will run at high speed well for
its time.
Wings and Wheels
--
Wings and Wheels
eagl...@aol.com wrote in article
<19961207001...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Not to get too picky but there really never was a Standard 1....Just a
Jantar Standard
and then the Jantar Standard 2 and the Jantar Standard 3..
Sorry....I had to throw that in...
tim
Jerry Painter
Of course SZD has been building gliders for quite some time. I
have an SZD-36A Cobra 15 (1973), the last of the competitive wood
ships. Great for Sports class, but not competitive in Std. class
anymore. I believe my ship is one of two (third was destroyed
in wind accident in Nevada last winter, I believe) in the US.
Very nice flying, lots of fun, beautifully built, affordable.
--
I Johnston
ejub...@shaw.ca
k...@cni.net
On take off, it sometimes will drop a wing. I had a couple dozen flights before my first wing drop. Normally, it can be picked up with rudder. Getting the tail up is the key to having aileron control. Start with the trim slightly forward of neutral, and the stick slightly forward. Starting with the stick full forward will cause the tail to come up quite quickly, and if you do not react in time, you could scrape the nose. On pavement, start with partly open spoilers to slightly apply the wheel brake to avoid over running the tow rope. I recommend the wing tip wheels sold by Williams Soaring. I used heavy duty double stick tape - if caught in a runway crack, I want them to rip off.
On tow, everything is normal. No surprises.
In flight, it handles nicely. Good control harmony. No quirks. The rudder is more effective than most gliders that I have flown, so at first, I was over controlling with the rudder. The only quirk is that if the gear is not properly adjusted, it can drop when you hit a big bump. Not a problem, just startling.
Stall and spin characteristics are completely benign. If stalled, just ease up on the back pressure on the stick, and it will just fly right out of it. Spin recovery is standard, no surprises. I do three turn spins both directions every season just for practice, no problems.
Rigging is dirt simple. Everything self connects and goes together easily. Just make sure that the ballast and spoiler controls are full forward before fully inserting the wings. It helps, but is not necessary, to have trim full forward when attaching the horizontal stabilizer.
Landing is perfectly normal. The only "gotcha" is do not touch down with full spoilers. The wheel brake is on the spoiler handle, and you could bang the nose down.
The quality of construction is fine. Mine was built in 1998, and so far, no gel coat crazing or spar hump.
Support from Windpath has been excellent, for both the glider and the trailer.
The SZD 55-1 is light for a standard class glider. With all my crap it weighs in at 513 pounds. (basic instruments, transponder, radio, Themi, Cambridge 302/303, O2, Flarm, PDA, and dual batteries) It has wet wings, and the ballast is easy to load. It has an odd cable activated disk brake, which unlike most gliders, actually works. Even with an aft CG, it is possible to put it on the nose depending on how it is adjusted and how hard you apply the brake. Once you understand how it works, it is not hard to adjust.
P9
k...@cni.net
Guess next time I should pay more attention - the original post was from '96!
szd5...@gmail.com
> Well,
>
>
>
> Guess next time I should pay more attention - the original post was from '96!
Bob 7U