Best places for a soaring pilot to retire?

[Matt Herron Jr.]

Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.

Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.

Thanks for any suggestions

Matt

[6X]

Reno / Minden NV - 3 glider ports, no state income tax, 300 average days of sunshine, 20 miles to Lake Tahoe, Renown Medical Center, University of NV Reno

[Dave Nadler]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 4:41:00 PM UTC-5, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Looking for new Ideas for places to retire.

Looks like Matt has been making out big with GlidePlan!

[Bill T]

All of those places are in the PRK, People's Republic of Kalifornia. Think taxes and relative cost of living. Grass Valley, Williams area and north to Mt Shasta are nice, but suffer with wintr valley fog.

I would consider Minden area or Moriarty. Minden opens up the NV Great Basin area for summer and they are always running the thermal or wave down to Bishop, Lone Pine and return. Moriarity is high country desert flying with easy access. Anything around Pheonix or Tucson works, but not really rear water.

Utah is exploding with activity now with the Nephi cross country camps, activity at Parowan and Logan area. But they do have the winter doldrums.

BillT

[Matt Herron Jr.]

Wouldn't that be nice! Sadly, I won't be quitting my day job any time soon... Just thinking (dreaming) ahead.

Matt

[Matt Herron Jr.]

MInden is a nice soaring location, but a little too remote/small for living there. I can get to truckee in an hour from Auburn and that gives me access to the Sierras. I will check into Moriarty, thanks. Prawn/Nephi are great flying, but not sure how I feel about living in Utah..

How about some place in the EU? Too expensive?

[Andrzej Kobus]

You may try Spain for low cost of living. Southern Germany has good soaring but it is expensive. Western Poland has good soaring and it is relatively inexpensive. Slovakia is another reasonable place and it has good soaring. Flying in Alps from Southern France is another great location.

I am not sure how you would adopt to any of these places. You should read some periodicals on retiring abroad before you spend too much time thinking about it. It all sounds great at first but ...
I am speaking from experience. I have lived in 4 different countries (years in each country) and I traveled through many more. Home will always be home.

Here in the USA we have great soaring, one of the best in the world. Why go anywhere, except maybe for a month or so in winter to SA or Australia.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 10:41:00 AM UTC+13, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.

There are multiple places here in New Zealand that have pretty decent soaring. *Everything* is near the ocean.

My club, at Paraparaumu. Airfield is next to the ocean, hills start 3 km inland, rising to a long 5000 ft mountain chain 25 km inland. Sea cliffs to the south. Wellington city 40 min by car or an hour by commuter train. Flyable year round and some good soaring in winter.

http://hoult.org/bruce/carol.jpg
http://hoult.org/bruce/hector10.jpg

Unfortunately, we're likely to be moving sites soon to a site 20 minutes further from Wellington by car, 15 km from the mountains, and ocean 40 km to the east or 45 km south.


You should also look at Whangarei, Tauranga, Matamata ... all with good flying and within 2 1/2 hours drive of downtown Auckland. All have summer temperatures in the high 70s or low 80s, and winter temperatures that seldom get below the 60s.

I hear the fly in the South Island too. It's lovely in the summer.

[bumper]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 3:38:41 PM UTC-8, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
>
> MInden is a nice soaring location, but a little too remote/small for living there.

What?! "remote/small"?

If one is looking for big city ambiance, Minden for sure is not that, though I wouldn't consider it remote or small. Guess it depends what one is after. A lot of glider pilots do retire to the Minden / Carson Valley area. Spectacularly beautiful, great quality of life, and great soaring.

There's a lot of open space, and "city" is close enough. I live 15 miles south of Carson City, 40 miles south of Reno, a few miles east of S. Lake Tahoe, and 9 miles from Minden airport.

bumper

[Ramy]

No one mentioned SoCal so far.
I always thought this is the ultimate spot for soaring year around. Somewhere near San Diego should be an hour from Warner Springs with its great year around soaring conditions, and couple of hours from Crystal and maybe 3 hours from Inyokern. So with 1-3 hours drive you'll have access to fantastic XC soaring and wave year around. Weather is great as well. Didn't check the cost of living yet.
East Bay Area (where I live) is also a good choice with access to year around XC soaring with 1-3 hours drive (Truckee, Hollister, Byron, Williams).
As for Mimden/Truckee area and other Great Basin soaring sites, they are great but only for 3-4 month during the summer. The rest of the year is wave or nothing, so unless you are a die hard wave pilot, your soaring season will be short. All my soaring buddies who moved from the Bay Area to retire in Minden area fly much less than I do...

Ramy

[Sierra Whiskey]

Tucson, Arizona.

Great Soaring all around the state. We have an enthusiastic soaring club in Tucson. The club is open year round.

Relatively low cost of living. Plenty of room to buy land if you want to build a home. Tons of homes available in this "Buyers Market". Cool getaways such as Mt. Lemon and Flagstaff. Lakes all over (With water) which are good for fishing, boating, and relaxing.

The three key words: No Shoveling Snow!!!

[Fox Two]

Do as I did: move to France! The French Alps is THE most popular soaring site in the world (fact, not opinion), and the French Riviera is one of the most sought after addresses. Yes, the cost of living is generally higher, but you get what you pay for. And, assuming you're a USA citizen, not paying any state income taxes helps, as does any tax write-offs going from the euro to the dollar.

A bientôt sur la piste!
Chris

[Tom (2N0)]

If you learn to drive on the wrong side of the road, South Island New Zealand. I probably would not pick Omarama as it snows in winter but I would have a chalet there! I have not been to the club in Christchurch but met some of their member during the NZ Nationals, a great bunch. North Island is great if you don't have to go anywhere near Auckland in a car!

In the US you might look more at the club/facilities vs area. For example the Soaring Club of Houston enjoys year round flying (except for this crappy winter) an awesome club with great facilities (and not hard to find a week day tow), and inexpensive cost of living. Tucson is another good choice. Great club, all year flying, and cheap cost of living. Live on the northwest side of town because traffic sucks there too!

Tom

[bwi1...@gmail.com]

Southern France is indeed one of the best playgrounds in the world. Nothing beats taking off with the Mediterreanian Sea in view, stretching the flight into Central Switzerland and coming back to the sea in the evening :-)

Another place I'd consider is the Cape Town area. Nice people, not far from the ocean, living is relatively cheap, food is good and Worcester is one hour north, with fantastic gliding activity.

Bert
TW

[fly....@gmail.com]

Has anyone mentioned NH yet?

Dennis

[Mike the Strike]

I'm retiring in Tucson, Arizona. A nice little college town with excellent soaring and no snow shoveling! If I had to stay in the USA, I'd also consider Utah or Nevada for Great Basin soaring or Colorado. No worthwhile places further east of the Rockies

Second on my list would be Southern Africa (I did live in Jo'burg for ten years) including Namibia (arguably the best cross-country soaring in the world).

Third would be New Zealand, best described as like 1950's Britain but with Internet! It's hard to get in, though (they don't want whiny immigrants looking for free healthcare!)

Mike

[Bill T]

NH? Not really good year round soaring. Sure there is Mt Washington.
But an area that cancels a Winter Carnival (Alton Bay Ice Runway) because of too much snow and well below zero wind chill?
Lived there once, not planning on it for retirement.
BillT

[Tim Taylor]

Not sure there is one perfect place for year round. Many in Utah, Arizona and Nevada look at migrating like the birds. We have snowbirds and sunbirds depending on where is their primary home and secondary.

Southern Utah (St. George area) and Mesquite to Las Vegas and Arizona are nice for the winter months and Northern Utah is nice for summer with some of the best soaring in the world.

Logan has a group of Sunbirds that arrive each May through August from Arizona, Nevada and southern Utah. The summer rents are cheap and the university has a summer citizen program of courses. With live theater and a college town selection of restaurants it is a great way to spend the summer.

You get nearly two seasons of soaring and a great mix of flying.

[Bill D]

You guys lack a sense of adventure. How about San Martin de los Andes in Argentina. World class soaring and fantastic scenery. 1st world currencies go a long, long way in Argentina these days.

[Dan Marotta]

Anyone looked at the current snow total?  Of course, if you're a skier...

--
Dan Marotta

[John Carlyle]

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-5, Mike the Strike wrote:
> No worthwhile places further east of the Rockies

Really? Ever hear of the Appalachians?

-John, Q3

[bumper]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 11:56:46 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:

> As for Mimden/Truckee area and other Great Basin soaring sites, they are great but only for 3-4 month during the summer. The rest of the year is wave or nothing, so unless you are a die hard wave pilot, your soaring season will be short. All my soaring buddies who moved from the Bay Area to retire in Minden area fly much less than I do...
>
> Ramy

Ramy,

Not to be argumentative, I flew my Stemme S10-VT out of Napa for 5 years. Soaring there is very interesting and challenging, lots of variety, ridge, convergence, thermal, limited wave, and pretty much all of that in typically weak conditions below 5K agl.

I moved to Minden 12 years ago. If you are suggesting the thermal season at Minden is but 3 or 4 months, I disagree, unless you are referring to that portion of the season where you risk twisting your vario needle off and for romping cross country flying. Add a few of months on each side of that to account for more moderate conditions, and still able to head down to the Whites etc, and you have a thermal season that stretches from March (thermals to 16K) to November (thermals to 15K). Yesterday's report said 4 knots to 9.9K - but I wasn't flying so can't confirm what it really was.

Ridge, when the wind is out of the NE to E, provides great opportunity for scenic flying the eastern flank of the Carson range, though seldom much higher than 1.5K over ridge. Lots of fun!

Throw in wave and only in the dead of winter are there sometimes periods of a week or so with zip for soaring.

The above accounts for almost 300 days of the year.

[herbk...@gmail.com]

Agree with John C. Cast your eyes on the OLC N. America Champion list of 2014 and yes, there is a pure East Coast pilot in 5th place, who would have thought. That's Michael Higgins of Fairfield PA and we have the honor to hear from him this weekend at our Midwest Soaring and Safety Seminar here in the Chicago area. Mike is logging some unbelievable flights in his Discus, the longest last year was over 1,341 km. Together with Baude Litt he also explored some fantastic Winter routes.
I suggest to Matt to include some of the very active E. Coast clubs in his search, my favorite is of course New Castle, VA.
Herb

[Ramy]

Interesting discussion. Each ones definition of great soaring place is different. For some it means a place with potential for very long flights during the season even if the season is short or the great soaring days are sparse, for others it mean be able to fly year around regardless of how good the conditions are.
For myself, I am looking for a place where I can have access to multiple soaring sites (need variety) to be able to fly long XC (500km +) year around, all within 1-3 hours drive. So far living in the eastern Bay area provided me with good XC conditions 10 month of the year, but I suspect Southern California (San Diego area) is even better. I realize this is somewhat different from the criterias Matt has, but I would like to hear where else one can fly long XC year around in thermals. If that place has lower housing cost, than I may be able to retire earlier...
How about Florida? Only good in winter and spring?

Ramy

[Mike the Strike]

Not questioning that you have some excellent soaring back east if you're into ridges. However the OP was asking about excellent places to retire and most folks like to have a more benign climate than the east coast! Old bones don't like snow!

Mike

[son_of_flubber]

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 5:23:31 PM UTC-5, Mike the Strike wrote:
>...OP was asking about excellent places to retire and most folks like to have a more benign climate than the east coast! Old bones don't like snow!

A location where it is pleasant to be outdoors in the summer and fall, warm days and cool nights, is important to some. One mid-octogenarian, who is a very active pilot, winters in Florida and summers in Vermont. He and his crew (aka wife) are residents of FL for tax purposes. Rents a ski resort condo cheaply in VT in summer and fall.

Annual migration opens a lot more possibilities. Snowbirds that like to soar.

[bucc...@gmail.com]

Hey Fox Two, I'd like to hear more about your experience moving to France. How do I contact you? I usually spend four weeks in the alps each summer.

[Fox Two]

You can reach me at:
c dot j dot fleming at hotmail dot com

FYI, I fly from Fayence, about an hour west of Nice. We have a few Duo Discus available if you're interested!

Chris

[HGXC]

I live here now...That was tongue in cheek -:)

Dennis

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

HI Chris. I was wondering if you could write a bit about the soaring in France (how how long the season is, how strong the thermals, many glider ports and variety of terrain, is there good wave, ridge, good xc options... etc.) What is it like living France... I know none of the above but somehow I find myself jealous :)

[bwi1...@gmail.com]

Le mardi 17 février 2015 22:10:49 UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud a écrit :
> HI Chris. I was wondering if you could write a bit about the soaring in France (how how long the season is, how strong the thermals, many glider ports and variety of terrain, is there good wave, ridge, good xc options... etc.) What is it like living France... I know none of the above but somehow I find myself jealous :)

I've been flying in this region for the last 20 years in la Motte du Caire, Seyne-les-Alpes and since a couple of years in Fayence (Chris, I'm the nuthole who had blocked your trailer with my rigged Ventus in the morning something like two years ago...).

Season goes typically from March to end of September. Two large clubs (Fayence and Vinon) have all-year-round activity, but winter thermals are fairly week. Variety of terrain is almost flat land to the south (Vinon) to... well anywhere you want to go in the Alps. Highest summit would be Mt Blanc about 250 km north of Fayence with 4800m.
Right (10 km) North of Fayence start the French Sea Alps, which is a mountain range about 100 km with tops in the 2000-2500m, giving to the high alpine region with 3000-4000m tops.
Thermal strength is anything from 1 to 10 knots (rarely above), and on a real good day you don't stop for anything below 6 knots. Ceilings are 3000-4000 m on good days, which means that you often fly the ridges to climb, and you have to manage mountain passes. Going from Fayence to Switzerland involves passing several passes into different meterological regions, with 2 mountain pass at 300 m. An out-and-return from Fayence to the Furka Pass is 800 km and takes you along the most spectacular landscape in Europe.
Outlanding field have to be carefully managed as valleys are deep and narrow. However, there is are catalogues of referenced fields for France, Switzerland and Austria, with each field presented with photos, GPS reference, elevation, do's and don'ts. So although sometimes the next field may be 50 km away, you can fly safely and most of the time, there are several options.

There are frequently wave days, notably with strong Northern wind (called "Mistral") which is a stable meterological situation, often lasting for a couple of days. Klaus Ohlmann did an out-and-return from Serres to Wiener Neustadt some years ago, which is 1400 km. There is also some wave with strong Western or Southern wind preceeding a frontal system (and often not even holding for the whole day). During wave conditions, outlanding is better restricted to airfields.

Living in France... I've been living in Grenoble (roughly 100 km north of Provence) for a good 5 years, but that's been almost 20 years ago (now I live in the French part of Switzerland - mountains start at 3000 m right away ;-)), but I did like it. Living on the French Riviera is certainly a much sweeter plan, but you probably want to flee the crowds moving down from Paris durng July/August. But that's the time you want to spend in the air anyways ;-) I have a very good friend living close to Hyères, and he spends summers on the airfiled, and winters going sailing.

Bert
TW

[bwi1...@gmail.com]

Le mercredi 18 février 2015 09:07:44 UTC+1, bwi1...@gmail.com a écrit :
>... different meterological regions, with 2 mountain pass at 300 m...
>
> Bert
> TW

Oups, that would be 3000 m.

And John, should you be jealous?

Certainly so. :-D

Bert
TW

[2G]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.
>
> Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Matt

I recommend getting an RV and travel around to the various sites in the US. Set up your home base in some central location with low cost of living and taxes. Or pull the plug and go full time! You can always get a post office box somewhere to declare your residence.

Each area I visit has it's pluses and minuses - there will be no "perfect" location. Ely, NV, for example has world class soaring, but it lasts for only 6-8 weeks and it IS remote! So once it dies off go somewhere else.

I don't know anything about your personal situation, but there are some smaller diesel RVs that get excellent fuel mileage and are comfortable for 2 people.

Tom

[2G]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.
>
> Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Matt

Going international multiplies the difficulty exponentially. Just getting your glider into country permanently will involve much difficulty and you could end up doubling its cost in duties. Health care will be a huge issue. You will also have to deal with the issues of permanent residency.

I sold my DG400 to a person in Brazil and was amazed at all of the bureaucratic hoops that had to be jumped thru. For example, the bill of sale had to be notarized (requiring me to create a form that the notary would sign), the notary had to be authenticated by the State, then the entire document had to be legalized by the Brazilian consulate. The whole document package was then sent air mail to Brazil. At any point, the documents could have been lost in the mail, necessitating starting all over again.

Oh, did I mention that ALL running gear, including tongue, jacks and running lights, had to be removed from the trailer and discarded (and replaced in Brazil)!

Tom

[Fox Two]

That was a good summary from Bert (no worries about blocking me with your Ventus, I managed!) about soaring in the French Alps.

Jonathan, there are 17 clubs in just the PACA region alone (southeastern most part of France), with most airports offering launches to those who make unintended visits. Here's a link to who's where:

http://ffvv.org/debutant-edito/annuaire-des-clubs?departement=13_83_06_04_05_84

As Bert said, thermal season in the Alps runs from March to September, but today we had lift to 2500 meters and completed 250 km tasks. Not bad for February 18th. We also have a nice wave season from December through March. We have a wave window up to FL235 at Fayence. Last year I was still climbing at 14 knots passing FL230, and I had to open the spoilers and find the "down side" of the wave to get down.

March can be magical with both strong waves and strong thermals. We can have weak waves at any time though, even in July, and for those who know how to exploit them can increase their glide ratios to infinity.

What I love about the Alps, though, is the technique of flying along mountain faces all day long, nursing the anabatic lift, but not circling in it unless you need to clear a high pass. You can get some amazing glide ratios and cross-country speeds if you can resist the urge to stay high!

Another poster commented on the difficulty of moving internationally. Yes, by definition it is a bigger hassle than staying domestically. Is it impossible? No. Why did I do it? Because it was worth it! And I would do it all over again.

Chris

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Thank you for sharing the French conditions. How long did it take you to learn French? Sounds absolutely wonderful. I spent a month in Paris during 2003 and fell in love with everything French!

[clewi...@gmail.com]

Tom / 2G wrote:

"Going international multiplies the difficulty exponentially. Just getting your glider into country permanently will involve much difficulty and you could end up doubling its cost in duties. Health care will be a huge issue."

Hmmmm.....so you had a hard time in one single country so you're now writing off the rest of the world? The United Nations has 193 member states. Your experience WILL vary.

Let's take Australia for example. Despite the distance, shipping your glider there will cost $4.8-6k depending on chosen port and method (container vs RoRo). If you've owned it more than 6 months the tax is NIL. Duties NIL. In fact, tax on any aircraft with not more than one engine for a new immigrant or permanently returning resident is NIL so bring your SR22 too.

The big issue with healthcare is its free gosh darn it. Sorry about that. You don't have to auction your first born child to pay medical bills nor bleed out in the corner of the emergency room because you don't have insurance. In the interests of full disclosure, if you're working you'll pay a 2-3.5% healthcare levy on your taxable income and naturally, the waiting periods for govt provided care are longer than private. As this thread is about retirement, those charges are unlikely to apply.

Ok, that's Brazil and Australia sorted. Only 191 more countries to go....

Casey
B3

[JJ Sinclair]

Matt, I have flown all the major soaring sites in the West for over 40 years and it is my considered opinion that you can't beat the Sierras in the summer, July being the best. Air Sailing Sports Regional Championships has been the most consistently GOOD flying I have seen, year after year with speeds in the 80's or higher and 3 hour average tasking. See you there and anyone else who would like to experience the Sierras at its best!
JJ

[bwi1...@gmail.com]

Le jeudi 19 février 2015 02:04:29 UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud a écrit :
> Thank you for sharing the French conditions. How long did it take you to learn French? Sounds absolutely wonderful. I spent a month in Paris during 2003 and fell in love with everything French!

A crash course for a month with 4h per day will make you see good progress. Local female implication would be a real boooster :-D

TW

[Ramy]

On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 6:25:08 PM UTC-8, JJ Sinclair wrote:
> Matt, I have flown all the major soaring sites in the West for over 40 years and it is my considered opinion that you can't beat the Sierras in the summer, July being the best. Air Sailing Sports Regional Championships has been the most consistently GOOD flying I have seen, year after year with speeds in the 80's or higher and 3 hour average tasking. See you there and anyone else who would like to experience the Sierras at its best!
> JJ

Indeed cant beat the sierras (actually the great basin) in the summer.
I am still trying to figure where one can live to have access to consistent great soaring conditions *year around* within few hours drive at most. This is where I would like to retire. Does such a place exist?

Ramy

[GB]

Switch to paragliding and the possibilities are much greater. Easier to chase the sun as well. Dragging a sailplane around the world seems such a pain.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 12:34:43 PM UTC+13, GB wrote:
> Switch to paragliding and the possibilities are much greater. Easier to chase the sun as well. Dragging a sailplane around the world seems such a pain.

Using old legs as landing gear is a far greater pain.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I flew for years out of a San Diego area glider port "Warner Springs". Good people, reasonable conditions year around. Flew some long flights in the summer, but usually moved to the sierras for the summer season. Winter flying has weak thermals but have still done 200 miles without ever getting higher than 1,500 agl. Plus San Diego is a great place to be when not flying. I like the idea of France though, will have to think much more about that. Already bought copy of Rosetta Stone!

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 2:47:21 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:

Ramy,

How about grass valley? 1 hr from truckee, 1.5 hrs from williams, occasional snow in the winter, 1 hr from sac intl. airport.

[Fox Two]

It appears that the soaring season has already begun in Southern France! We've had 3 good days in a row for February, with each day producing 200+km tasks. And Tuesday is forecast to be a wave day.

Jonathan,

To answer you earlier question about learning French, I had no language training until I decided to move here. A few years before moving, I started taking private lessons. During the last 12 months before the move, the lessons became more intensive. When I arrived in France, I had what I'd call an intermediate level of French knowledge, but it was immediately clear that I could barely hear it or speak it. 18 months later I was accepted as fluent, although as I'm not a native speaker, I'll never stop learning or improving my French. Rosetta Stone is a great tool for getting ready for a vacation. Becoming fluent will require immersion.

It sounds like you've already been bitten by the francophile bug! Perhaps an Alpine soaring vacation sold to your other half as a vacation on the French Riviera might be a possibility! Send me an email so we don't annoy the others with this French stuff.

Chris

c (dot) j (dot) fleming (at) hotmail (dot) com

[Tango Whisky]

When I moved to France, I didn't speak a word of French ("sortie" on the highway was the first I learned when I was moving my stuff).

I took 2 months of a half-day crash course at Grenoble University (not cheap, but very efficient), and after that I could get along. Six month later I was able to fight back a supplier on the phone.
At this time (25 years ago), people did frown at you if you didn't at least try French first. This has changed considerably since.

And as Chris said, immersion is the key. Also important - don't be afraid of making mistakes. 25 years later, my family is still sometimes laughing at me... but then I'd switch to German and have a laugh at them.

[2G]

How many countries have YOU exported gliders to?! Duties are real, and they MUST BE PAID! I DID NOT say "don't do it", just BE AWARE of what you are getting yourself into. Why don't you come up with ACTUAL experience of exporting gliders instead of criticizing me?

[Dan Marotta]

A suggestion:

Sell your glider before emigrating and buy another after immigrating.  You'll likely come up with a newer ship in the bargain.

--
Dan Marotta

[2G]

I think you had better do it the other way around: buy the glider first, then immigrate. You may find the available inventory not much to your liking. I like to know what I am jumping into before I actually jump.

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 11:56:46 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> No one mentioned SoCal so far.
> I always thought this is the ultimate spot for soaring year around. Somewhere near San Diego should be an hour from Warner Springs with its great year around soaring conditions, and couple of hours from Crystal and maybe 3 hours from Inyokern. So with 1-3 hours drive you'll have access to fantastic XC soaring and wave year around. Weather is great as well. Didn't check the cost of living yet.
> East Bay Area (where I live) is also a good choice with access to year around XC soaring with 1-3 hours drive (Truckee, Hollister, Byron, Williams).
> As for Mimden/Truckee area and other Great Basin soaring sites, they are great but only for 3-4 month during the summer. The rest of the year is wave or nothing, so unless you are a die hard wave pilot, your soaring season will be short. All my soaring buddies who moved from the Bay Area to retire in Minden area fly much less than I do...
>
> Ramy

Um...everyone flys much less than you do :-)

[gotovkotzepkoi]

Dan Marotta;897540 Wrote:
> A suggestion:
>
> Sell your glider before emigrating and buy another after immigrating.
> You'll likely come up with a newer ship in the bargain.
>

> On 2/21/2015 9:15 PM, 2G wrote:-

> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 6:44:25 PM UTC-7, clewi...@gmail.com

> wrote:-

> B3-

> How many countries have YOU exported gliders to?! Duties are real, and
> they MUST BE PAID! I DID NOT say "don't do it", just BE AWARE of what
> you are getting yourself into. Why don't you come up with ACTUAL
> experience of exporting gliders instead of criticizing me?-
>

> --
> Dan Marotta

Why even export a glider to Europe from the US in the first place?
Europe is awash in used gliders - a far bigger selection than here and
they are in much better condition too. So, sell the glider in the US,
move to France. You will never regret it.




--
gotovkotzepkoi

[Vsoars]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 3:41:00 PM UTC-6, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.
>
> Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Matt

I guess this sounds too simple. Look on OLC for the best clubs. Focus on the one with the best record for 2013 & 2014. Examine how many months a year they fly there. Go to the club's web site and look at the facility (note overnight accommodations and places for RVs in case you want to live in Austin, etc.). Consider the ease of building a hanger for your glider and the small $25 a year fee for use of the land. Finally, research the state income tax (Hint- none) and property tax on the glider ($0) That may be a reason why there are so many 18 meter and more wing spans. The pilots can afford to buy them and fly them. ( For additional fun trailer it to NM, Utah, NV, CA or CO in the summer when you want to deal with more challenging land-out situations. )

[ucanem...@gmail.com]

I see no one wrote anything about retiring and soaring in Spain. I understand Spain is very affordable wonder how the soaring is?

[Don Grillo]

I'm just about ready to retire, maybe, within 2 years. I'm considering a motor home for now so I can visit different areas of the USA with my glider in tow. I really like the idea of So Cal but am afraid that California taxes would take a large bite out of my retirement income. Any retireies in SoCal that can weigh in?

[Roy B.]

This seems like a good topic to resurrect in anticipation of a convention soon in the Southwest. I expect to retire in 2018 and would love to meet some people at Reno who could answer questions about various clubs, towplane reliability, real estate prices, and summer XC possibilities. Winter XC is not so important for me as I spend most of my winters flying in South Africa. But I am trying to find a good retirement place in the Southwest.
ROY (who is really tired of shoveling snow)

[Dan Marotta]

Once you get used to the wind, Moriarty is a fine place for year round
soaring.  And at an airport with no fence and two 7,500' runways.  Lots
of nearby amenities in Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Taos, etc.  Real estate
prices seem high to me but taxes are very low. Summers are not too hot
and winters do not have a lot of snow, either.

On 12/26/2017 8:29 AM, Roy B. wrote:
> This seems like a good topic to resurrect in anticipation of a convention soon in the Southwest. I expect to retire in 2018 and would love to meet some people at Reno who could answer questions about various clubs, towplane reliability, real estate prices, and summer XC possibilities. Winter XC is not so important for me as I spend most of my winters flying in South Africa. But I am trying to find a good retirement place in the Southwest.
> ROY (who is really tired of shoveling snow)

--
Dan, 5J

---
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[Waveguru]

I'm loving Aguila. Quiet, but Phoenix isn't tooooo far. Amazing collection of planes here, and the night sky is magnificent! Lots available around our two airports.

Boggs

[Waveguru]

Oops. Aguila, Arizona, USA 85320

602-284-9977
Boggs

[lharri...@gmail.com]

i want to post a reply with a suggestion not put forward yet, but also post up a related topic..

Suggestion -- fly out of Ephrata Washington ... you can live a LOT of places, but the hidden gem I'd suggest is Richland WA.

Ephrata has excellent soaring -- perhaps not quite as good as Moriarty etc, but the great things about Ephrata are landing sites are EVERYWHERE, and there is spectacular variety of terrain within easy flying range. If you go due west you go across the Waterman plateau, cross the Columbia river gorge around Wenatchee, and then into the Cascades, beautiful Alpine soaring.

The terrain is much friendlier than the east side of the Sierras and the soaring is almost as good.

And the Richland area has excellent health care and a more cultural things going on that you would expect -- the big DOE laboratory makes it a highly-educated community. It's very sunny there, not terribly hot in the summer, and almost no snow during the winter.


Just FYI "God's soaring country," -- sometimes it's the Devil's too. I flew out of Minden years ago. Technology has made flying that terrain better (higher performance gliders, and GPSS has made an enormous difference in finding/managing landing sites) ... but if you plan to fly on the east side of the Sierras you want a high-performance sailplane that can carry a lot of water. I do want to fly there again with my Discus B ... but I'd say it is about the bottom of the performance spectrum I would want to fly in that terrain/soaring environment.

Some of my best, and some of my worst, memories in soaring are flying the east-side of the Sierras and out into the desert. Monster thermals that climb at 2,000 ft/min to altitudes near (or even above) 20,000 ft ... but then miles and miles of unrelenting strong sink over terrain that looks like the moon rocks and sagebrush ...or Joshua trees, in the southern parts. Landing sites are often far apart, and you better carry what you need to survive a day and night out in the desert. If I were thinking of making any of these places my home I'd want a ASG-29, or one of the new & more expensive big gliders with at least a FES, and they are out of my budget.



Question -- I'll be half-retired this year, going down to half-time until my last doctoral student is done and then I'll be done (due to the Trump administration starving NOAA and NASA I doubt there will be another major hurricane observational campaign for us), and I want to take my Discus and roam the USA for about 1/2 the year.

I'm looking for fun places to go, and putting together an itinerary that doesn't involve driving 2000 miles from Saratoga NY until I get to the first place ... and I am looking for the following too:

* I'm a CFI-G/ASEL, got my -G in 1971, and I love teaching, particularly in the club setting. I'm also a tow-pilot, have towed using just about every towplane type used in the USA, currently tow in Pawnees. I realize nobody wants to take an unknown pilot at word-value, but I am looking for places that have some interest in another CFI and Towpilot ... who isn't guaranteeing to hang around for ever. But I can fill-in tow on weekdays etc. I've instructed in everything from 2-22s (at Torrey Pines!) on up, currently instruct mostly in G-103s - own a Discus B and a Ka-6.

* I'm particularly avid about supporting youth training programs -- ran our (Adirondack soaring's) summer intensive this summer ... any place that is running a subsidized youth soaring program and needs a CFI/towpilot -- am willing to pitch in

* I want to end up the season someplace where I can safely store the Discus, and perhaps even my travel rig, probably somewhere between Bishop CA and Richland WA, and treat that as my "base" for subsequent roams. But I have ties to my crowd at Saratoga, and not thinking yet of giving them up, and then

* any idea of really relocating needs to pass "the Annie test," and so far that seems a high barrier, and a lot of places that glider people like just aren't going to pass it.

Lee Harrison, QJ

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Tuesday, December 26, 2017 at 7:29:23 AM UTC-8, Roy B. wrote:
> This seems like a good topic to resurrect in anticipation of a convention soon in the Southwest. I expect to retire in 2018 and would love to meet some people at Reno who could answer questions about various clubs, towplane reliability, real estate prices, and summer XC possibilities. Winter XC is not so important for me as I spend most of my winters flying in South Africa. But I am trying to find a good retirement place in the Southwest.
> ROY (who is really tired of shoveling snow)

Roy,

Why don't you set up a "meetup" at the convention for this topic?

Matt

[Roy B.]

OK - Once I figure out a way to do that ("a meetup" at Reno) I will.

As for Ephrata, no offense, but go back and read the part of my post about snow shoveling . . .I want a place where Home Depot doesn't even have a snow blower department.

Seriously, I have kids in San Antonio & Boulder and a ladyfriend with a daughter at Arizona State. So the Southwest really makes a lot of sense to us.
ROY

[Bruce Hoult]

On Tuesday, December 26, 2017 at 11:00:59 PM UTC+3, lharri...@gmail.com wrote:
> i want to post a reply with a suggestion not put forward yet, but also post up a related topic..
>
> Suggestion -- fly out of Ephrata Washington ... you can live a LOT of places, but the hidden gem I'd suggest is Richland WA.

Yes, nice place.

I was in the USA based at Seattle for a couple of months in winter 1998/9. On Jan 1 (Friday) I drove with my family to from Seattle to Richland via Yakima to stay with some internet friends there. We had a look around the area on the Saturday and then drove back to Seattle via Portland on the Sunday.

The terrain and climate looked nice, and 250k - 300k is a good size for a nearby metro area. Big enough to have almost everything, not so big to have traffic.

Looks like it has lots of nice connections to SEATAC and LAX and less so to Salt Lake City, Denver, MSP, SFO.

> Ephrata has excellent soaring -- perhaps not quite as good as Moriarty etc

Somehow, I always had the impression when I saw this name that it was in New England somewhere.

> And the Richland area has excellent health care and a more cultural things going on that you would expect -- the big DOE laboratory makes it a highly-educated community. It's very sunny there, not terribly hot in the summer, and almost no snow during the winter.

Yes, looks good. Much like Canterbury in New Zealand. Or the Pyatigorsk area here (coincidentally formerly a centre of uranium mining and processing).

> * I'm a CFI-G/ASEL, got my -G in 1971, and I love teaching, particularly in the club setting. I'm also a tow-pilot, have towed using just about every towplane type used in the USA, currently tow in Pawnees. I realize nobody wants to take an unknown pilot at word-value, but I am looking for places that have some interest in another CFI and Towpilot ... who isn't guaranteeing to hang around for ever. But I can fill-in tow on weekdays etc. I've instructed in everything from 2-22s (at Torrey Pines!) on up, currently instruct mostly in G-103s - own a Discus B and a Ka-6.

If you're not wedded to taking your own glider with you, several clubs in New Zealand take on foreign instructor/tow pilots to enable a seven day a week operation in the summer (northern winter). They're not paid positions, but you get free food&board and an old car to drive and all the flying you want.

> * any idea of really relocating needs to pass "the Annie test," and so far that seems a high barrier, and a lot of places that glider people like just aren't going to pass it.

I'm not familiar with that one.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

While good info......is this a "gliding tour guide" or a "I want to go somewhere, here are my credentials so hire me PT"?

Decent points, not taking anything away from that.
I'm flying not all that way south of you, lots to be had, but yes, you and I have to shovel snow (I did yesterday....).

[Bob Salvo]

On Tuesday, December 26, 2017 at 10:29:23 AM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
> This seems like a good topic to resurrect in anticipation of a convention soon in the Southwest. I expect to retire in 2018 and would love to meet some people at Reno who could answer questions about various clubs, towplane reliability, real estate prices, and summer XC possibilities. Winter XC is not so important for me as I spend most of my winters flying in South Africa. But I am trying to find a good retirement place in the Southwest.
> ROY (who is really tired of shoveling snow)

Roy, I also found Moriarty a great place to fly. As long as you carry an oxygen supply, you can fly over the mountains and view beautiful places like Santa Fe.
Bob

[Renny]

Roy,
As I look at your comment... "Seriously, I have kids in San Antonio & Boulder and a ladyfriend with a daughter at Arizona State. So the Southwest really makes a lot of sense to us, " Moriarty would be right in the middle. You can head north up I-25 to Boulder or west on I-40 and then south on I-17 at Flagstaff to go to the Phoenix area and ASU! San Antonio is east on I-40, south on US 285 to I-10 and then you are on your way!

I really do not need to talk about the soaring at Moriarty, but the outstanding soaring conditions in central New Mexico are very well known. Most gliders at Moriarty are fully assembled in hangars and we have an excellent FBO in Sundance Aviation (Rick Kohler), two glider repair facilities (one operated by Robert Mudd and the other by Fidel Ramirez) and MM Fabrication (manufacturer of glider handling equipment) which is owned by Mark Mocho. There is someone at Moriarty that can essentially handle any glider repair or service requirements that you may have. Living in New Mexico also has a lot to offer with: relatively low taxes, outstanding weather, a very reasonable cost of living and the beauty of Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Taos and the great southwest! Definitely come visit NM before you make your final decision. Thanks and good luck in your search! Renny

[Roy B.]

Thanks Renny
I do plan to visit NM again and also hope to meet with some Moriarty pilots at Reno. Right now my "short list" is Phoenix, Tucson and Albuquerque. My son Dan flys an ASW-20 out of Boulder and I've flown out of there a bit as well as out of Hobbs, Estrella, Durango (many years back) Salida, & Aspen. So I've a little of the taste of how nice it is.
ROY

[Dan Marotta]

15 years ago I would have recommended Boerne Stage airport in Boerne,
TX, northwest of San Antonio, but I drove through there a couple of
weeks ago and it seems that San Antonio has grown out to engulf it. 
Maybe take a look at Uvalde, or TSA (Dallas/Fort Worth), Caprock, Fault
Line, etc in central Texas.

[Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas]

I would welcome a CFIG / Towpilot (1958 C-182 tri-gear) at Marfa in southwest Texas, near the scenic Davis Mountains and Big Bend National Park. I fly year-round but it's a relaxed schedule.

Bring your sailplane and crew and soar like Moffat in "The Sun Ship Game" film.

For local info go to www.visitmarfa,com
Several nice RV parks here as well.

See you at the SSA Convention in Reno, Feb 28-March 3.
I'll be around the Soaring Safety Foundation booth and seminars.

Burt Compton
Marfa Gliders Soaring Center
www.flygliders.com

("Burton Compton" on Facebook for your amusement.)

[Roy B.]

My understanding is that there is still no regular aerotow support at Uvalde when there is no contest in session. Does anybody know differently?
ROY

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 4:41:00 PM UTC-5, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.
>
> Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Matt

Probably would pick Florida in the winter, no better weather in the country than Florida in that time of year. As for the summer I would pick Utah, nice place to soar. Wouldn't give you two cents for the entire state of PRK, Peoples Republic of Kalif!
Argentina would be my out of country choice for the winter, Australia for the summer.

[Tim Taylor]

I am biased, but will retire in Utah. I currently fly out of Logan and plan to retire at Grassy Meadows Sky Ranch (UT47), 60 miles south of Parowon. We can fly the ridge and surrounding mountains in Hurricane in the winter and then the great basin and Colorado plateau the rest of the year. I will likely spend a month or two in Logan each summer during the monsoon season, plus it is the best mountain flying in the US and is very addictive.

You can see Bruno's videos of glider flying at all the sites.

For Hurricane seach gliders racing desert and kolob canyon. There are two airports near Hurricane. Utah offers some of the best mix for Soaring for the entire year.

I was wishing I had glider available on Christmas day as the west winds we perfect here in Hurricane to fly the ridge. When I was here in late October there we Cu along the mountains.

[pgpi...@gmail.com]

Do you know of any clubs/operators looking for tow pilot help right now? This post has me intrigued as I'm planning on being in NZ starting next week. In country for three weeks on holiday.

YES, I'd love to hang at an airport. Fly airplanes, talk shop and live the flying dream on my vacation.........from being an airline pilot :-)

[6PK]

I live and fly in socal, and I agree with Ramy.
One can "almost" have acceptable soaring conditions year around if you don't mine driving a couple of hours in one direction or other.
Spring, summer, and fall seasons almost always offer good and great conditions. Plenty of wave in the winter.
Active, high scoring OLC region, if it tells you something. ......

[Bruce Hoult]

I don't know. I'm working in Moscow these days :-) But I'll be in NZ for five weeks starting Jan 2 and have reserved Jan 4 - Jan 9 for hanging out at my club, Wellington, which is actually situated at Greytown.

I've listed some of the major clubs below, north to South

Kaikohe https://www.facebook.com/Kaikohe-Gliding-Club-147786565244227/
Auckland, http://glidingauckland.co.nz
Tauranga, http://glidingtauranga.co.nz
Piako, http://www.glidingmatamata.co.nz/
Taupo, http://www.taupoglidingclub.co.nz
Wellington, http://soar.co.nz
Nelson Lakes, http://googlesite.glidingnelson.co.nz/
Christchurch, http://canterburyglidingclub.nz

NB Kaikohe and Wellington use a winch these days, not aerotow.

The Canterbury club tends to operate from Omarama around Christmas/New Year, rather than from their home at Springfield. I don't know the exact dates.

You'd get a warm welcome at any of them.

[AS]

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 4:41:00 PM UTC-5, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Looking for new Ideas for places to retire. The usual considerations apply; cost of living, health care, weather, and available soaring. Doesn't have to be the US. near water would be nice. I own a Ventus C.
>
> Anyone live in/near Grass Valley, CA? 1 hr from Truckee and Sacramento, 1.5 hrs from Williams, 2.5 hrs from Bay area.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Matt

Nobody has mentioned the upstate of SC yet. Flyable conditions nearly all year around except for a few weeks in August, where we encounter 'HHH'-conditions and a few weeks in the winter (yeah - they actually call it that way down here!). Strong conditions in April through June - see the Perry contest results. Of course it isn't Moriarty or Parowan but the climate is conducive to a lot of other outdoor activities. You can be on the Appalachian Trail in 2 hours or at the beach in 4 hours or reach the CLT or ATL metro-areas in 2 hours. Friendly club in Spartanburg offering aero-tow and winch and plenty of small airports around to minimize the risk of true off-field landings. Real Estate is still affordable and property taxes are a fraction of what you see in the NE.
Uli
'AS'