Maybe MaMaybe moving from a CAI 302/303 to LXNAV S100 Pros/Cons?

[Nicholas Kennedy]

Gents
Looking for some advice here from those who have gone through this.
My friend/ teammate Richard Phiffner keeps bugging me to upgrade from my CAI 302 / 302 system to a LXNAV S100.
I've been flying with this 302/303 system since '98. I have bought 3 of them over the years and now have one in my LS3a and a backup. Both are GPS current.
I Had one in my Grob Twin Astir with Electronic TE activated; Loved it.
I really like the system, no updates to screw them up. I've pulled it off the deck many times with this setup. The super netto is excellent. The wind info is also excellent. Easy to use and add turnpoints. Easy to change to electronic TE if you want. TE adjustable in the cockpit. Bombproof IMHO.
With the S100 I could get AHRS which is welcome and Hawk Winds.
How does the S100 perform in very light lift like in a low save and in 12 Knot booming condition's like the the Great Basin? Is the turnpoint page readable?
Is the final glide page info readable with not great eyes?
Money isn't a real issue, usability is. I've got my 302 really dialed in for my ship- the audio and needle action is both cockpit adjustable.
What do you guys think? Thumbs up or down on this instrument change for the '22 season?
What's the learning curve?
How different is the response and action between the 2?
Would I just be opening up a can of worms with this change? Don't want to upset the apple cart. And like I said I've got a backup 302/303 that I travel with.
I also have a LXNAV TE vario V3 as a backup that works super good BTW.
Thanks in advance!

Nick
T

[Dan Marotta]

Why mess with success?  Will the change make you a national or world
champion?

Dan
5J

[Mark Mocho]

Nick- I flew with the 302 for 10 years or so, and yes, I really liked it. As you know, I am not a competition pilot, so I used it as designed- to tell me whether I was going up or down. Period. It was at least as "great" as the stuff you and I used while flogging hang gliders around the sky and probably a lot better. In the sailplane world, Netto, Super Netto, Total Energy, wind and all of the other bells and whistles are better than what we used to have. You are obviously knowledgeable about the setup, operation and use of this venerable system, which is a good reason to keep on using it.

However-

I changed to the S80 several years back, and immediately loved it. (The S80 is essentially the same as the S100, minus the IGC-FAI approved logger.) Naturally, there was a learning curve associated with the much more complex and extensive list of features, including the map, waypoint ID and related glide numbers needed, the Flarm display and all of the other things available. The 80 mm size is larger than the 57 mm 302, but with the huge amount of available information 57 mm is simply too small. Especially if you are mentioning your aging eyeballs.

Features are abundant, and once you get used to the system, going through the many pages available and judicious use of the customizable options, updating and configuration is pretty intuitive, but maybe not so easy for your average bricklayer. A certain amount of computer savvy is needed. Fortunately, the manual is pretty well laid out. (It's definitely superior to the instructions you generally get with some cheap Chinese device.)

All in all, my suggestion is to upgrade to the 80 mm S100. As I mentioned, the 57 mm is just too small. I also suggest going with the remote stick controller. It isn't that expensive, is pretty easy to install and makes usage of many common features a breeze without having to push buttons and twirl knobs on the S100 itself. I found that it's a pain to use one hand to operate the knobs and buttons, especially since you almost always mask the display with your hand. Just using the buttons on the stick eliminates most of the fumbling, although there are some functions that are easier to manipulate with the main controls on the panel mounted instrument (Volume, Zoom and such)

Downloading your flight is also much easier, as it uses the accepted IGC format as opposed to the antiquated CAI format that is difficult to get accepted by the OLC and FAI. We all know that Cambridge pioneered the flight logging technology, but their proprietary CAI format has been superseded internationally by the IGC/FAI.

Another problem with updating or retrieving information in the 302 is the fact that it requires a serial RS232 interface. Yes, there is a USB port available, but it is data IN only. Forget about downloading or interactively updating your settings. (At least that was the situation when I was using the 302.) The S100 has multiple options for communication between devices, including the damn near foolproof removable SD card. Unless you drop it in the cockpit and lose it, which is a real possibility. (Ask me how I know this. Did you know that there is a mysterious low pressure area under the seat pan that can and will suck an SD card through any available opening?

My advice is to upgrade to the 80 mm S100 and remote stick controller. Keep the 302 operational if you have the panel space to provide you with your security blankie until you are mature enough to dump it and go with newer technology.

PS- I changed to the LX9000 a couple of years ago, and it is even MORE of an awsome system.

[Me]

Nick,
I agree with Mark in all respects, but with no opinion as to which functions better as a variometer. You and anyone else who can afford to do it should switch asap. I did a few years ago and was surprised at how dramatically it changed my flying. I had an Oudie 2 (bright screen) but still couldn't see it all that well. And what I didn't realize is how much I really disliked tapping on the screen, and how much time I spent fiddling with it just to do simple things like selecting a waypoint, understanding my glides to various waypoints, etc.
With both instruments in the glider, over time just stopped using the oudie for much of anything other than an overall map showing waypoints made in green. I quickly switched to using the S80 for glide calcs, waypoint selection, tasks, etc, and it was fantastic. The S100 is smaller but has a better resolution and is brighter, so I could see it very well. What a nice change! And the greatest benefit is how much less time I spent doing computer things and how much more time I spent thinking about what I wanted to to with the glider, the bigger picture stuff. It had a not small effect on how I fly.
So much of an effect I knew I wanted an LX9000 and purchased one as soon as I found a bargain. So, considering how much you fly, maybe just make the jump to the 9000? And in either case, purchase the stick controller, half of the benefit of the whole thing is there. Never having to reach for the panel might be the biggest change from the phone/oudie to S100/LX9000. Do it, you will not regret it.

[R]

You mentioned 8 times all the things you love with your current system. The S100 is a 302 with a itybitty TV screen.
So, unless you have a need for the latest pretty thing, no, you will not improve your skillset 1 iota. The S100 will most likely prove to be a distraction for many months as you fiddle with it while embossing it with your ranting spittle.
I vote no, leave the money for your children.

Caveats Emptor....I am installing a new S100 in my 31 next week because I like pretty things and my Sage refuses to behave. I need a backup vario, logger, and navigation to my 9000 combi.
And so I can watch Gunsmoke.
Go big, right?

R

[Me]

You should save yourself $1200 and just purchase an S3 then.

[Me]

On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 1:38:39 PM UTC-8, R wrote:

and yes, I did mention "8 times" all of the things I like about the S80 that I had. That was the point after all, to mention all of the "pro's and con's of the S80/S100", see post title... So that's what I did.

[Me]

On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 1:38:39 PM UTC-8, R wrote:

Ugh, I realize now you were talking to Nick and not me. I guess the current state of this group, with every thread veering into childish spatting, has me a wee bit too sensitive apparently. My apologies.

[Eric Greenwell]

It's easy to lose track of the situation, as the thread decays into subthreads, all with
the same subject heading. You are OK as long you aren't arguing with your previous postings...

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Nicholas Kennedy]

Gents
Thanks for all the coherent responses!
Santa is a LXNAV dealer I think so we will see what happens
Fly safe in '22
Nick
T