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Groundloop accident at the Senior Contest
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John Good
Mar 16, 2021, 2:51:11 PM3/16/21
to
At around 12:54 today, Thomas Johnson (V12 - MiniNumbus) was injured in a takeoff groundloop accident. He was airlifted to an Orlando hospital, where he'll be met by his wife.
Emergency medical personnel were pleased with his vital signs and cautiously optimistic about his prospects for recovery. We'll post an update when a report on his condition is available.
Emergency medical personnel were pleased with his vital signs and cautiously optimistic about his prospects for recovery. We'll post an update when a report on his condition is available.
John Good
Mar 16, 2021, 4:41:17 PM3/16/21
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Pilot is currently reported to be in surgery to address ankle & leg injuries plus a dislocated hip. Doctors are optimistic for a good outcome.
mmc...@gmail.com
Mar 16, 2021, 5:26:18 PM3/16/21
to
Thanks for the update.
Dgtarmichael
Mar 16, 2021, 7:16:50 PM3/16/21
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On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 4:26:18 PM UTC-5, mmc...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for the update.
Awe, man... Tom was one of my first instructors 30ish years ago. Great guy... wish him a speedy recovery!
-Doug
W24
> Thanks for the update.
Awe, man... Tom was one of my first instructors 30ish years ago. Great guy... wish him a speedy recovery!
-Doug
W24
Dan Marotta
Mar 16, 2021, 8:34:47 PM3/16/21
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Get well quickly, Tom.
Dan
5J
Dan
5J
Hartley Falbaum
Mar 16, 2021, 8:44:00 PM3/16/21
to
Speedy and complete recovery, Tom.
So sorry to hear of your injury.
So sorry to hear of your injury.
Dave Nadler
Mar 16, 2021, 8:48:29 PM3/16/21
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On 3/16/2021 4:41 PM, John Good wrote:
> Pilot is currently reported to be in surgery to address ankle & leg injuries plus a dislocated hip.
> Doctors are optimistic for a good outcome.
Very sorry to hear and wish Tom a speedy recovery.
> Pilot is currently reported to be in surgery to address ankle & leg injuries plus a dislocated hip.
> Doctors are optimistic for a good outcome.
This might be good to review:
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring/c/FQrj_lGe-wE/m/2GGBShuhs2oJ
No new ways to crash...
Be safe out there, See ya, Dave
Eric Greenwell
Mar 16, 2021, 9:34:13 PM3/16/21
to
reduce the number ground loops while towing. Having a steerable tail wheel on my ASH26E really
made an impression on me - no more being a passenger on a ballistic aircraft.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Dave Nadler
Mar 17, 2021, 8:56:11 AM3/17/21
to
On 3/16/2021 9:34 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> I don't know anything about the accident, but often wonder if a
> steerable tail wheel would reduce the number ground loops while towing.
> Having a steerable tail wheel on my ASH26E really made an impression on
> me - no more being a passenger on a ballistic aircraft.
More important for directional control is the weight on the tail
> I don't know anything about the accident, but often wonder if a
> steerable tail wheel would reduce the number ground loops while towing.
> Having a steerable tail wheel on my ASH26E really made an impression on
> me - no more being a passenger on a ballistic aircraft.
skid/wheel. A tailwheel (steerable or fixed) doesn't help much
without enough weight in back, which cannot be easily accomplished
without the gear swinging well forward and other design considerations.
Most important is to practice grabbing that release handle,
and expect to have to do it during launch. I lost count of how
many times I had to pull the plug, usually because of poor
tug acceleration and/or poor wing-run. These days when taking a
tow in a motorglider, I take off wing down (on the tip wheel)
to avoid the wing-drop excitement.
Hope that helps!
Best Regards, Dave
Eric Greenwell
Mar 17, 2021, 10:23:19 AM3/17/21
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Schempp-Hirth and DG models have much less, leading to control problems in a cross-wind, and
especially when power is applied during a self-launch.
Wing runner or wing down, my glider has sufficient steering that it's irrelevant to safety
which is used, and I don't want to discourage people trying to be helpful :^) But, a good wing
runner does make it a bit easier on the wing when it's a rough field, especially with ballast.
Message has been deleted
john firth
Mar 17, 2021, 12:40:41 PM3/17/21
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On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:36:51 AM UTC-4, Ron Branham wrote:
>
> “V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
> Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery.
>
> Ron Branham
Very unfortunate; does the mini Nim have tail skid or wheel?
The PIK20E has a steerable tailwheel but authority is limited due to the spring coupling.
It has suffered numerous serious ground loops.
On a few occasions I have been unable to stop the swing before stopping; braking will
exacerbate the swing. One has to be very cautious about steering off the runway
as is expected at club sites.
John F
> On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 1:51:11 PM UTC-5, John Good wrote:
> > At around 12:54 today, Thomas Johnson (V12 - MiniNumbus) was injured in a takeoff groundloop accident. He was airlifted to an Orlando hospital, where he'll be met by his wife.
> >
> This is what happened to Tom Johnson. V12. One of our club members is Tom’s partner in the Mini-Nimbus. He posted this on our email site as we are all anxious to hear about Tom’s status.
> > At around 12:54 today, Thomas Johnson (V12 - MiniNumbus) was injured in a takeoff groundloop accident. He was airlifted to an Orlando hospital, where he'll be met by his wife.
> >
>
> “V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
> Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery.
>
> Ron Branham
Very unfortunate; does the mini Nim have tail skid or wheel?
The PIK20E has a steerable tailwheel but authority is limited due to the spring coupling.
It has suffered numerous serious ground loops.
On a few occasions I have been unable to stop the swing before stopping; braking will
exacerbate the swing. One has to be very cautious about steering off the runway
as is expected at club sites.
John F
George Haeh
Mar 17, 2021, 1:44:38 PM3/17/21
to
Winching we teach keeping the hand on the release for the entire launch.
With CG hook on aerotow, same applies as tow pilot preservation becomes paramount. I've had to release twice in the air (tow speed too low).
BGA Safe Winch Launching advises releasing before wing contacts the ground if you can't stop the wing drop.
I find rudder works better than ailerons in keeping the wings off the ground in the early ground roll. It depends on your glider. YMMV
With CG hook on aerotow, same applies as tow pilot preservation becomes paramount. I've had to release twice in the air (tow speed too low).
BGA Safe Winch Launching advises releasing before wing contacts the ground if you can't stop the wing drop.
I find rudder works better than ailerons in keeping the wings off the ground in the early ground roll. It depends on your glider. YMMV
Nicholas Kennedy
Mar 17, 2021, 2:18:33 PM3/17/21
to
I was surprised to read that the launch procedure was compromised at Seminole and resulted in a bad accident.
I wish Tom a full quick and complete recovery.
This is a old problem.
Several years ago at the SSB camp in Salida I was the next to go when a SSB instructor pulled up and left his car, off the runway, but in front of me just where I thought I'd hit it if the the launch went bad. I released the rope and refused to launch until he moved his car.
He threw a tizzy at me but I refused to launch and held up the line, until he moved his car behind the launch point.
Nothing got bent out of shape that day but the SSB Instructor's ego.
We've got to hold the line on safety, soaring is so dangerous already.
Fly safe in 2021
Nick
T
I wish Tom a full quick and complete recovery.
This is a old problem.
Several years ago at the SSB camp in Salida I was the next to go when a SSB instructor pulled up and left his car, off the runway, but in front of me just where I thought I'd hit it if the the launch went bad. I released the rope and refused to launch until he moved his car.
He threw a tizzy at me but I refused to launch and held up the line, until he moved his car behind the launch point.
Nothing got bent out of shape that day but the SSB Instructor's ego.
We've got to hold the line on safety, soaring is so dangerous already.
Fly safe in 2021
Nick
T
Message has been deleted
Waveguru
Mar 17, 2021, 7:18:09 PM3/17/21
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Good for you Nick. Having things or people to the sides and in front of the launching gliders is very bad.
Boggs
Boggs
Walt Connelly
Mar 17, 2021, 9:43:10 PM3/17/21
to
'Ron Branham[_2_ Wrote:
> ;1040218']On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 1:51:11 PM UTC-5, John Good
> wrote:-
> At around 12:54 today, Thomas Johnson (V12 - MiniNumbus) was injured in
> a takeoff groundloop accident. He was airlifted to an Orlando hospital,
> where he'll be met by his wife.
> -
> a takeoff groundloop accident. He was airlifted to an Orlando hospital,
> where he'll be met by his wife.
>
> This is what happened to Tom Johnson. V12. One of our club members is
> Tom’s partner in the Mini-Nimbus. He posted this on our email site as
> we are all anxious to hear about Tom’s status.
>
> “V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the
> initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe
> due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground
> turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the
> runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of
> the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of
> contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
> Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery.
>
> Ron Branham
Best wishes to Tom for a complete recovery. It should be the
> This is what happened to Tom Johnson. V12. One of our club members is
> Tom’s partner in the Mini-Nimbus. He posted this on our email site as
> we are all anxious to hear about Tom’s status.
>
> “V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the
> initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe
> due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground
> turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the
> runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of
> the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of
> contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
> Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery.
>
> Ron Branham
responsibility of EVERYONE at an event such as this to look for
infractions that could inhibit the safety of the launch. Whether it be
something over which one could trip to something that might result in a
fatality the contest director, launch crew, flag man/woman/person, tow
pilot, VP, manager and airport dog should all be aware of and enforcing
the rules. I would imagine that submarining the truck was what resulted
in the pilot's injuries. An avoidable situation for sure.
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
--
Walt Connelly
golfsie...@gmail.com
Mar 17, 2021, 10:18:10 PM3/17/21
to
Common procedure for aerotow with a flapped glider involves starting in negative flap to get aileron control authority early, then moving back to zero/+1/whatever.
Can't really have hand on the release handle under those circumstances - but can make a mental note of knowing where it is, and practice dropping the flap handle & grabbing it pre takeoff.
Nick.
Can't really have hand on the release handle under those circumstances - but can make a mental note of knowing where it is, and practice dropping the flap handle & grabbing it pre takeoff.
Nick.
Eric Greenwell
Mar 17, 2021, 11:33:27 PM3/17/21
to
I routinely start my ASH26E in negative flap, but there is no need change to positive flaps
until 20-25 knots IAS. So, until then, I keep my hand near (not on) the release. That's if I'm
being towed; if it's a self-launch, I keep my hand behind the spoiler handle.
until 20-25 knots IAS. So, until then, I keep my hand near (not on) the release. That's if I'm
being towed; if it's a self-launch, I keep my hand behind the spoiler handle.
George Haeh
Mar 18, 2021, 1:32:40 PM3/18/21
to
It's usually the early ground roll where you might not be able to keep the wings clear of the ground.
In my ASW-27 on aerotow, I keep my hand on the release until the gear gets noisy. That's when I have aileron control and can change flaps; then hand back on release.
In the 27 the release is near the canopy rail and close to the flap handle when negative. Much more ergonomic than release handles out of sight between your legs on the cockpit floor. In that case even more important to have your hand on the release. In the rear seat of our club Grob we have a lanyard on the release as it's hard to reach without it.
In my ASW-27 on aerotow, I keep my hand on the release until the gear gets noisy. That's when I have aileron control and can change flaps; then hand back on release.
In the 27 the release is near the canopy rail and close to the flap handle when negative. Much more ergonomic than release handles out of sight between your legs on the cockpit floor. In that case even more important to have your hand on the release. In the rear seat of our club Grob we have a lanyard on the release as it's hard to reach without it.
waremark
Mar 18, 2021, 6:32:45 PM3/18/21
to
On the danger of open spoilers, I will admit that, in spite of having previously read the warning in your brilliant Guide to SLS Ops, on my second flight in the ASH 26E I started with the spoilers not locked. The brilliant take-off performance resulted in a satisfactory take-off, just after which I heard on the radio 'Mark spoilers open'. It was a clever call to use my name which got through to me - I banged the spoilers shut.
Mark Burton
Tango Eight
Mar 18, 2021, 7:29:14 PM3/18/21
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https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20070828X01254&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=CA
T8
2G
Mar 19, 2021, 8:04:56 PM3/19/21
to
Tom
Message has been deleted
Walt Connelly
Mar 21, 2021, 3:43:09 PM3/21/21
to
2G;1040279 Wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 6:43:10 PM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:-
> 'Ron Branham[_2_ Wrote: -
> ;1040218']On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 1:51:11 PM UTC-5, John Good
> wrote:-
> At around 12:54 today, Thomas Johnson (V12 - MiniNumbus) was injured
> in
> a takeoff groundloop accident. He was airlifted to an Orlando
> hospital,
> where he'll be met by his wife.
> -
>
> This is what happened to Tom Johnson. V12. One of our club members is
>
> Tom’s partner in the Mini-Nimbus. He posted this on our email site
> as
> we are all anxious to hear about Tom’s status.
>
> “V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the
> initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe
>
> due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground
> turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the
> runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of
>
> the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of
> contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
> Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery.
>
> Ron Branham-
> wrote:-
> At around 12:54 today, Thomas Johnson (V12 - MiniNumbus) was injured
> in
> a takeoff groundloop accident. He was airlifted to an Orlando
> hospital,
> where he'll be met by his wife.
> -
>
> This is what happened to Tom Johnson. V12. One of our club members is
>
> Tom’s partner in the Mini-Nimbus. He posted this on our email site
> as
> we are all anxious to hear about Tom’s status.
>
> “V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the
> initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe
>
> due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground
> turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the
> runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of
>
> the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of
> contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
> Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery.
>
> Best wishes to Tom for a complete recovery. It should be the
> responsibility of EVERYONE at an event such as this to look for
> infractions that could inhibit the safety of the launch. Whether it be
>
> something over which one could trip to something that might result in a
>
> fatality the contest director, launch crew, flag man/woman/person, tow
>
> pilot, VP, manager and airport dog should all be aware of and enforcing
>
> the rules. I would imagine that submarining the truck was what resulted
>
> in the pilot's injuries. An avoidable situation for sure.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
>
>
>
>
> --
> Walt Connelly-
> responsibility of EVERYONE at an event such as this to look for
> infractions that could inhibit the safety of the launch. Whether it be
>
> something over which one could trip to something that might result in a
>
> fatality the contest director, launch crew, flag man/woman/person, tow
>
> pilot, VP, manager and airport dog should all be aware of and enforcing
>
> the rules. I would imagine that submarining the truck was what resulted
>
> in the pilot's injuries. An avoidable situation for sure.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> I worked for many years at a National Laboratory, first in the 70's then
> in 2000's. The safety culture was a total turn around in that time
> period. One simple concept was that ANYONE could stop an experiment,
> process, procedure, etc. for a safety issue. The issue would be
> investigated and corrected before work could resume w/o repercussions to
> the person reporting the problem.
>
> Tom
I experienced the same thing essentially, worked in health physics with
> I worked for many years at a National Laboratory, first in the 70's then
> in 2000's. The safety culture was a total turn around in that time
> period. One simple concept was that ANYONE could stop an experiment,
> process, procedure, etc. for a safety issue. The issue would be
> investigated and corrected before work could resume w/o repercussions to
> the person reporting the problem.
>
> Tom
a nuclear reactor refueling crew. Some shutdowns were text book perfect
because management was on the ball and concerned not only with a quick
and efficient refueling but a safe one too. I saw places that were
heavily fined by OSHA and other Federal agencies who quickly
straightened out, others that never did no matter what. It’s all a
matter of management culture. Where management was heavy with engineers
and physicists things went smoothly, where it was dominated by MBAs and
CPAs, not so well. In environments where I had been given some teeth
and authority things went well, others not so much. Delegation of
authority is necessary to improve safety in virtually all environments.
In reality it is amazing that an event such as the Seniors goes off
year after year with as few problems as it does.
Rich Owen
Mar 24, 2021, 9:26:38 AM3/24/21
to
Updates to Tom’s condition are being made to club members at Coastal Soaring via email and to the Seniors competitors via Signal app. We are abiding by the families wishes to not send out many posts on the internet.
We do know Tom is awake and talking with friends. His surgery to repair his broken leg was completed successfully yesterday. He has had three surgeries and he is scheduled for another on Friday to repair his foot/ankle. Edie is surrounded by friends and family and is doing well.
An FAA inspector spent last Wednesday morning reviewing the incident location, the condition of the ship, truck location, launch procedures, and a video of the incident from security cameras on the gliderport. We switch camera views based on the runway in use to review flight operations. The FAA inspector was in contact with his counterpart at the NTSB and we hope an interim report will give us more answers.
The video contradicts one of the witness statements and some incorrect information has been disseminating on line. Although the video is from a distance, it clearly shows that the quote taken from an email from Rus Howard, that Ron Branham posted on Rec Aviation Soaring on March 17th is accurate except the impact point appears to have been on the truck’s running board and lower passenger side door. The nose of the ship did not go under the truck. The wing runner on V12 was a CFI-G and cell phone video from the launch of the previous aircraft, by the same individual, did not show any procedural anomalies. Weather conditions at the time of the accident winds were out of the south at 12-15 mph. Takeoffs were being made on runway 18.
As in all aviation incidents, when one of our friends is injured, we all feel the pain. The FAA will release their investigation when it is complete and appropriate recommendations will be complied with. Meanwhile, pilots should perhaps consider whether it’s wise or helpful to offer comments and speculation on an incident they did not see and don’t have full knowledge of.
We have Tom and his family in our prayers and we are standing by to provide any assistance. All the competitors, staff, and management at Seminole-Lake Gliderport wish Tom a speedy recovery.
Sincerely,
Rich Owen
Contest Manager
Senior Soaring Championship
We do know Tom is awake and talking with friends. His surgery to repair his broken leg was completed successfully yesterday. He has had three surgeries and he is scheduled for another on Friday to repair his foot/ankle. Edie is surrounded by friends and family and is doing well.
An FAA inspector spent last Wednesday morning reviewing the incident location, the condition of the ship, truck location, launch procedures, and a video of the incident from security cameras on the gliderport. We switch camera views based on the runway in use to review flight operations. The FAA inspector was in contact with his counterpart at the NTSB and we hope an interim report will give us more answers.
The video contradicts one of the witness statements and some incorrect information has been disseminating on line. Although the video is from a distance, it clearly shows that the quote taken from an email from Rus Howard, that Ron Branham posted on Rec Aviation Soaring on March 17th is accurate except the impact point appears to have been on the truck’s running board and lower passenger side door. The nose of the ship did not go under the truck. The wing runner on V12 was a CFI-G and cell phone video from the launch of the previous aircraft, by the same individual, did not show any procedural anomalies. Weather conditions at the time of the accident winds were out of the south at 12-15 mph. Takeoffs were being made on runway 18.
As in all aviation incidents, when one of our friends is injured, we all feel the pain. The FAA will release their investigation when it is complete and appropriate recommendations will be complied with. Meanwhile, pilots should perhaps consider whether it’s wise or helpful to offer comments and speculation on an incident they did not see and don’t have full knowledge of.
We have Tom and his family in our prayers and we are standing by to provide any assistance. All the competitors, staff, and management at Seminole-Lake Gliderport wish Tom a speedy recovery.
Sincerely,
Rich Owen
Contest Manager
Senior Soaring Championship
Hartley Falbaum
Mar 24, 2021, 12:15:49 PM3/24/21
to
Thanks Rich;
For now, it is sufficient to know Tom is progressing well.
The details can wait.
I think very highly of Tom--he is one of the faculty of the SSF FIRC that I attend.
Please ask someone to pass along my wishes for a full and speedy recovery .
Hartley Falbaum
For now, it is sufficient to know Tom is progressing well.
The details can wait.
I think very highly of Tom--he is one of the faculty of the SSF FIRC that I attend.
Please ask someone to pass along my wishes for a full and speedy recovery .
Hartley Falbaum
Richard Owen
Mar 25, 2021, 10:32:51 PM3/25/21
to
Harley,
Will do.
Rich
Will do.
Rich
2G
Mar 25, 2021, 10:46:36 PM3/25/21
to
On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 7:32:51 PM UTC-7, Richard Owen wrote:
> Harley,
>
> Will do.
>
> Rich
Whether or not the glider "submarined" under the truck is irrelevant - what is relevant is the truck shouldn't have been there per contest rules. Additionally, and more importantly, the contest manager failed at enforcing these rules.
Tom
> Harley,
>
> Will do.
>
> Rich
Whether or not the glider "submarined" under the truck is irrelevant - what is relevant is the truck shouldn't have been there per contest rules. Additionally, and more importantly, the contest manager failed at enforcing these rules.
Tom
Walt Connelly
Mar 26, 2021, 9:43:14 PM3/26/21
to
2G;1040445 Wrote:
> On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 7:32:51 PM UTC-7, Richard Owen wrote:-
> Harley,
>
> Will do.
>
> Rich-
>
> Whether or not the glider "submarined" under the truck is irrelevant -
> what is relevant is the truck shouldn't have been there per contest
> rules. Additionally, and more importantly, the contest manager failed at
> enforcing these rules.
>
> Tom
Right you are Tom but you gotta love Rich, ever the master of rhetoric.
> Whether or not the glider "submarined" under the truck is irrelevant -
> what is relevant is the truck shouldn't have been there per contest
> rules. Additionally, and more importantly, the contest manager failed at
> enforcing these rules.
>
> Tom
And remember, Mihai was out of the country looking for new business
opportunities.....AND ASYLUM in my Constitutionally protected opinion.
Walt
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.
--
Walt Connelly
2G
Mar 27, 2021, 12:42:03 AM3/27/21
to
Tom
0 new messages