bird strike
Frans Goddijn
* Original message posted in: netmail.
* Crossposted in: rec.aviation.soaring, wuthryng.
Dear Valter,
bs> From: Valter Battistoni <bat...@ssnet.it>
bs> Dear friend,
bs> searching on the net for bird strike information, I found your
bs> address. I am an italian airport director and I am very interested
bs> to everything related to this matter
bs> Are you an expert ?
bs> Can you help me in finding other contacts for further news?
bs> Thanks in advance
bs> regards Walter
I am not an expert but I once collected some messages about it, and I will
now forward your question to others.
Good luck!!
Frans Goddijn
f...@fgbbs.iaf.nl
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 05 '95, 20:09
From : Soar101 314:85/99
Subj : Bird Stikes?
From: soa...@aol.com (Soar101)
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Has anyone ever heard of hawks or eagle dive-bombing their large soaring
buddies?
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 06 '95, 16:51
From : bob gibbons 314:85/99
To : All
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: r...@dseg.ti.com (bob gibbons)
Organization: Advanced Airborne Systems, Texas Instruments
>>>>> ">>" == Soar101 <soa...@aol.com> writes:
>>> Has anyone ever heard of hawks or eagle dive-bombing their large
>>> soaring buddies?
About 20 years ago I was thermalling a K-6E just off our auto-tow site
in Northeast Texas at about 400-500 ft when a hawk flashed by my canopy
with wings folded. A minute or so later he made another pass and
impacted on the raised tip of my outside wing. Last seen he was spinning
into the tree canopy below.
We had earlier noticed there appeared to be hawks nesting in the trees
just off the end of our runway. Apparently I was too close for
comfort. No damage to the K-6, I hope the hawk faired as well.
Bob
--
Bob Gibbons Texas Instruments
Internet: Bob.G...@dseg.ti.com Dallas, TX
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 06 '95, 20:23
From : BPattonsoa 314:85/99
To : All
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: bpatt...@aol.com (BPattonsoa)
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Yes
Mario Crosino and I were soaring out of Avenall in May of this year. We
routinely see Red-Tailed Hawks. We were flying near Coalinga in the
hills. A red tail made a deliberate attack on Mario and hit him hard
about 10' out on his wing. Another pilot was below him, but didn't see
the bird fall. He left a significiant amount of blood and feathers on the
wing, so I expect he didn't get back. The event happened at about 8000
AGL.
Most of the time Red tails will leave if you join them. Some will act
aggressively until they realize the size or our birds. Some will thermal
with you, usually leaving you behind by their ability to turn quickly. On
a bad day at Avenall, I was flying by myself in the hills. There was only
poor thermal activity, but one comming off a high peak worked to about
6000'. There was a red tail in it, and he left when I entered. I left it
at the top, and later returned. He was back, and this time didn't leave.
It was the best thing around, and he got somewhat aggressive with me,
making several passes over my wing. I left.
Bruce Patton
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 06 '95, 16:05
From : Gill Couto 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: Gill Couto <bir...@asu.edu>
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ 85287
Red-tailed hawks are known for attacking hang gliders throughout
their mating season here in the southwest. They usually attack
about 3 to 4 feet from the wingtips, close to the leading edges.
Three holes in my sail remind me of a recent repeated attack.
Gill Couto | bir...@asu.edu
_____***--~~/|\~~***--_____
.____******~~~~-UP******~~/_o_\~~***--TRX-~~~~******____.
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 07 '95, 17:29
From : Krister Engvoll 314:85/99
Subj : Human strikes
From: Krister Engvoll <eng...@kjemi.unit.no>
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway
About a year ago I read a story about a collision between a fra falling
skydiver and a Cessna 152.
The skydiver hit the elevator and escaped with a broken ankle. The not
so lucky Cessna spun to the ground killing both crew!
At my home field Oppdal, Norway, where gliders and skydivers operate
simultaneously, there has been a couple of cases where skydivers have
opened their chutes high because they could see gliders below.
This in mind, we should not fly under aircraft people are likely to
exit, and if flying cross-country we should check if there is likely to
be skydiving activity along our route.
Krister
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 07 '95, 18:51
From : John Kahn 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: jk...@umbriel.noname (John Kahn)
Organization: Bombardier Regional Aircraft Division
In article 8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com, soa...@aol.com (Soar101) writes:
> Has anyone ever heard of hawks or eagle dive-bombing their large soaring
> buddies?
It's not exactly soaring, but my late dad told of being nailed
by a vulture while enroute to a low level tactical airdrop in his
C-47 in Burma in 1945 (435 Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Force). It hit
the cockpit roof out of a vertical dive, made a big dent and took out
the DF antenna.
Doubt the vulture cared whether the Dak was a sailplane or not though.
John Kahn
York Soaring Assoc.
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 09 '95, 04:22
From : Gill Couto 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: Gill Couto <bir...@asu.edu>
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ 85287
> >Red-tailed hawks are known for attacking hang gliders throughout
> >their mating season here in the southwest.
>
> That's interesting.
>
> I didn't know hang gliders had a mating season :-)
And you don't know what you're missing ;-)
Gill
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 08 '95, 22:31
From : BPattonsoa 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: bpatt...@aol.com (BPattonsoa)
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
About 8 years ago when I was flying my HP-18 out of Hummingbird Haven, we
had a good day with long cloud streets going north and south. I was
following one street right near Mt. Daiblo. Red Tail hawks are numerous
in that area.
I was still in the mode where I took a camera with me, thinking the
pictures would be interesting. I saw a Red Tail about 1 mile ahead of me
going the same direction as I was, at my altitude, running the street,
having a blast. I decided to sneak up on him and take a photo. I dropped
flaps to slow down to about 40. (Red tails cruse at about 30, it seemed).
I got to within about 20 feet of him, just below and to his right.
Just then he raised his right wing slightly and stuck his head around. I
have never seen a bird react quicker. He put on all the flaps he had and
came to an immediate standstill. He went over my wing faster than I could
follow. I turned, but this dude was gone!
He got his revenge, however. After landing, while wiping down the ship, I
found a major hawk deposit on the L.E. of the wing. Undigested mouse fur
and all.
Bruce Patton
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 08 '95, 16:00
From : GrobSailor 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: grobs...@aol.com (GrobSailor)
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
In article 8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com, soa...@aol.com (Soar101) writes:
> Has anyone ever heard of hawks or eagle dive-bombing their large soaring
> buddies?
My instructor told me about flying a 2-32 on a commercial ride with two
passengers in back when a red tail hawk came at him through the canopy
head on.
The hawk embedded it's talons in his heavy wool sweater, and ended up
layed out over his shoulder, dead. Obviously the slipstream was howling
through the remains of the canopy, and the canopy shards made multiple
fine cuts in his face with a fair amount of bleeding present. Not knowing
this, he turned to reasure the passengers...
Anway, he got down all right, and admonished me to be watchful of bird of
prey with altitude on the sailplane.
Gene Lambert - Northern California
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 09 '95, 21:02
From : "Steve Sampson" 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: ste...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Steve Sampson")
Organization: Compulink Information eXchange
Has anyone ever heard of hawks or eagle dive-bombing their large soaring
buddies?
Reply:
I was certainly taught never to fly under them when ridge running in the
Apalachians since if nervous they would dive (free fall) for the trees. I
always went around them though saw them dive sometimes.
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 13 '95, 03:07
From : John Simpson 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: si...@lug.DIALix (John Simpson)
Flying with birds of prey is a regular occurrence in the summer
soaring season in Australia, particulary around escarpments or
hilly country. Only once have I ever been 'threatened' by a bird
in the air.
In Spring 1991, I was flying a Puchacz in thermal lift with a
first-time passenger adjacent to the Stirling Ranges in
south-western Australia. I was joined at least 500 feet below by
a pair of wedge-tailed eagles. The wedge-tailed is our largest
bird of prey with wing spans recorded up to eleven feet!
I continued thermally, watching the pair work its way up to
us. When the eagles reached us, their large size became
apparent and despite our moderate rate of climb in the thermal,
they appeared to be reluctant to maintain their previous rate of
climb which would have seen them quickly overtake us.
I watched the eagles for several turns, and they appeared to be
flying back and forth at the fringe of the thermal, moving in and
out of lift to stay with us. Just then the largest of the two
broke away from his companion and flew towards me. My passenger
said he wanted a closer look at the bird and that was exactly
what he got!
The eagle flew right at us, then veered to our right about 20
feet in front of our nose. As it flew past and under our right
wing, I saw it partially fold its wings and project its talons
forward. This was a big bird with a wingspan that appeared to
be between eight and nine feet. It wasn't until it was this
close to us that we realised just how big the bird was. I
tactfully suggested to my passenger that the eagle probably no
longer wished to share his piece of air with us, and I thought
it better that we go and find another little part of the
atmosphere well away from him.
Off we went and I didn't see the eagle again that day, despite
flying around the area several times on later flights. In
retrospect, I guess he was probably a male bird that was trying
to protect his young lady's virtue from the other 'big bird' in
the sky.
Flying regularly at Bathurst, on the western hills of the
Australia's eastern Great Dividing Range, I often meet
wedge-tailed eagles and smaller birds of prey flying up to 13,000
feet QNH. I have found, without exception, in a potential
collision situation, these birds will fold their wings and dive,
rather than make a horizontal evasive manouevre.
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 15 '95, 17:50
From : "Nick Leaton" 314:85/99
Subj : Re: Bird Stikes?
From: nic...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Nick Leaton")
Organization: Compulink Information eXchange
> In Spring 1991, I was flying a Puchacz in thermal lift with a
> first-time passenger adjacent to the Stirling Ranges in
> south-western Australia. I was joined at least 500 feet below by
> a pair of wedge-tailed eagles. The wedge-tailed is our largest
> bird of prey with wing spans recorded up to eleven feet!
Earlier this year I spent 3 weeks at Naromine in Australia. There
were wedge tail eagles flying arround then. If you were climbing they
would join you and vice versa. On one occasion one joined me in a thermal
and then spent 10 minutes 2-3 foot away from my wing tip in the vortex.
It then went and had alook at the tail fin. All this time I had slowed
right back to close to the stall. It is very unerving watching it watching
you, but equally a real thrill to get that close to a bird of that size
in flight, particularly as you know he is the professional and you the
amature. Typing this now is giving me goosebumps. After a while he tucked
his wings in and set off for the next thermal. The speed between thermals
is high too, about 45-50 knots. I would estimate their L/D arround 30:1
Nick
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Area : rec.aviation.soaring
Date : Jul 18 '95, 16:05
From : Steve Hosier 314:85/99
Subj : bird strikes
From: hos...@gallifrey.el.sait.ab.ca (Steve Hosier (E/E Dept))
Two weeks ago both myself in a Jantar and the tow pilot in a Scout came
within a foot of a juvenile bald eagle soring at about 1000'. As near as
I can figure the eagle simply did not realize that we were climbing and
heading in his direction, but teenagers are apt to daydream. We could see
the bird from a distance and assumed he (she?) would leave the thermal
and avoid us. He didn't! As he was coming around to a head-on situation
he seemed to suddenly see us but was unsure (I'm guessing here) whether
to go over or under the Scout's right wing. He went over the top with
only inches to spare, and discovered, with great surprise, that the air on
the trailing edge is somewhat turbulent. He went tumbling/flapping by my
right wing with a undoubtedly clear intention of avoiding us in the
future.
--
_____________________________________________________________
Steve Hosier, Southern Alberta Institute of Technology (SAIT)
email: steve....@sait.ab.ca
***
* Origin: TeX, LaTeX on FGBBS [31] 85-217041 (314:85/99)
Met hartelijke groet!
Frans Goddijn | bbs: +31 (0)26 3217041
Postbus 30196 | email: f...@fgbbs.iaf.nl
6803 AD Arnhem | fax: +31 (0)26 3210500
The Netherlands | http://www.pi.net/~fg
--
You are what you is
Nick Leaton
I've just been flying in South Africa. There were Cape Vultures and
what I think were tawny eagles. However, the best flyers I came across
were Maribou storks. They were consistently in the best cores, and
on more than one occasion saved me from landing out.
They fly in gaggles, and although I never saw it happen, I suspect
they fly to where they expect the lift, when one starts getting a strong
climb, it then calls to the others and they move over.
Also, they cloud fly. In strong climbs when you were below them they
carried on climbing into the cloud. You look up now and then and there
are fewer and fewer until they have all gone. I'm not sure how long they
continue to climb.
They also don't like you being above them, and will elegantly perform a
quick half roll and pull through.
--
Nick
Josep Seto
Frans Goddijn <f...@fgbbs.iaf.nl> escrit a l'article
<a73_970...@fgbbs.iaf.nl>...
> * Original message posted in: netmail.
> * Crossposted in: rec.aviation.soaring, wuthryng.
>
> Dear Valter,
>
> bs> From: Valter Battistoni <bat...@ssnet.it>
> bs> Dear friend,
> bs> searching on the net for bird strike information, I found your
> bs> address. I am an italian airport director and I am very interested
> bs> to everything related to this matter
> bs> Are you an expert ?
> bs> Can you help me in finding other contacts for further news?
> bs> Thanks in advance
>
> bs> regards Walter
Following the Frans stories, I tell one about my airfield.
The airfield from wich i operate, every day is full of vultures thermaling
or traveling arround. The vultures show us perfectly where are the thermals
and therefore we usualy follow them as they are the best *pilots* in the
area. When we join a thermal with vultures, they usualy syncronice the
angular speed with the glider (i.e thermaling in a shorter radious) and fly
with the gliders as new members of the vulture comunity. Sometimes, when
the glider is quite near to them, they scape closing the wings and diving.
The past season, the scenario changed. We had several incidents with
vultures, the worst was a friend pilot joining a thermal collided with a
vulture and the cabin was broken. No human injuries.
The old pilots said that it was a extrange behavior of the vultures,
because they didn't remember so many incidents before.
Someone said that, probably, a new group of vultures stablished in the area
and they were not used to fly with gliders. No scientific studies has been
carried out about such hypotesis.
In the other hand, 70km. southwest from our airfield there is an air force
base. They usualy have problems with the vultures and the flight plans
consider the minimum flight level for the jets, having in mind the thermal
activity.
Derek Ruddock
I had a close encounter with a wedge tail eagle at Camden, near Sydney
in 1988, while flying a Grob Astir. The day was very scratchy, and I
was managing to stay up in half a knot (all that practicing in pommy
thermals was usefu l;). A very large wedge tail eagle took up position
off my starboard wingtip, riding the vortex I presume. After a while,
he left to find a better thermal, but rejoined me afterI managed to
outclimb him in his new thermal. This happened several times over a
period of an hour, each time (s)he slotted in behind my wingtip( i was
still turnig to the right). The final time the bird left to find
better lift, it appeared to change its mind, and, at about a wingspan
away, changed its direction of circle to the left. This put us on an
unavoidable collision course at a closing speed af 100 knots. The bird
impacted the leading edge about 5 meters from the cockpit, I could not
determine the damage, and the glider was still controllable, so I
elected to land. On my desent, I hit several strong themals, and on
each occasion my heart was in my mouth as I envisaged the wing falling
off!.
On landing the leadig edge of the wing was found to be delaminated
over approximately a square foot.
I have subsequently encountered eagles while soaring inland Australia
as high as 10,000 feet. I now am very wary about sharing themals with
these magnificent birds.
Nick Leaton
I wonder if it has anything to do with their breeding season?
Nick