DG Flugzeugbau - How to get rid of your customers
Lars Peder Hansen
Mr. Webers latest antics:
http://dg-flugzeugbau.de/betreuung-e.html
Cheers,
Lars Peder
aero...@socal.rr.com
wrote:
So, what I see first is:
Free drawings
Free Technical Notes/S/B and AD's
Freee AFM and Repair manuals
That is more than some mfg's, at least two I know charge for all the
above...
aerodyne
StaPo
>
> So, what I see first is:
>
> Free drawings
>
> Free Technical Notes/S/B and AD's
>
> Freee AFM and Repair manuals
>
> That is more than some mfg's, at least two I know charge for all the
> above...
>
> aerodyne
Would be useful to read whole article, the "Free" in Mr. Weber's
newspeak should be understood as
"The annual premium will be 425.00 Euro flat for 2011. This is for a
"Full-Service-Agreement". All consecutive years will cost 245,00 for
each glider."
brianDG303
signed up last year your cost will be 245.00 again this year, but if
not it's 425.00 this year and 245 going forward, so you don't escape
last years fee. It will be interesting to see how things work out in
the future, I think he will want to collect the fee all the way back
to 2010.
I know there will be a lot of Weber bashing but I see the position he
is in and it is costing him a ton of money to support all those
types. He could have handled it very differently for example he could
have bought just the rights to make a single LS type and not taken on
the whole legacy line. That would have left the legacy owners with no
support which is an option they have now, correct? Now if you have an
older DG or LS you have two options, supported or not supported. What
bugs me is the heavy handed 'pay me or you are grounded' attitude.
Brian
Nigel Cottrell
your glider the charge to prevent your glider becoming a garden
ornament will be all the back years 'Service Contract' + the cost
of the AD + any parts + VAT. So it isn't optional at all.
Look at the huge number of DG and LS gliders for sale.
He isn't just trying to extort money from owners but at the same
time destroying the value of their property.
Dr. John
flight status for each glider type? If so, this is not a DG problem
but a EU problem. I feel bad for DG getting stuck in the middle of a
tax mess. I'm glad I live in the USA with my experimental status.
FLyingnsx
Andrew Warbrick
it's costing DG anywhere near that. If DG dropped type support for all
the old Glaser Dirks and LS gliders they would save €96.53 in EASA type
certificate holders annual fees.
Each type certificate renewal is €965.26 but there's a discount of 10%
for the second certificate, 20% for the third etc. on the eleventh and
subsequent certificates there is no fee at all. DG hold nine type
certificates on types they have built or are currently building.
Okay, AD's cost them something, but then there hasn't been a single AD
on my glider since DG bought LS.
Herr Weber also had a whine that it costs them a fortune to employ the
number of engineers EASA demands that they have "to support old types".
Guess what, if he wants to build new gliders he needs them anyway!
Finally, one of DG's biggest whines is about the cost of answering
questions. I presume Germany has an equivalent of 0898 numbers and it
wouldn't exactly be difficult to get rid of their email addresses and
have an enquiries web-form behind a paypal or credit card link.
DG are just doing creative accounting and saying that all the old types
are costing the money. Well, they don't have any option but to support
the types they still want to build. The bottom line is that they want
those of us who, as they are so fond of pointing out, never even bought
anything from them in the first place, to subsidise their "business"
playing at building gliders which, bizarrely enough, when they treat their
customer base the way they do, don't sell too well.
cernauta
<brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>[...] he could
>have bought just the rights to make a single LS type and not taken on
>the whole legacy line. That would have left the legacy owners with no
>support which is an option they have now, correct?
You mean, like the owners of other orphan gliders, such as Libelles?
They are supported by a firm which charges for work, upgrades or
parts, not for sheer ownership.
aldo cernezzi
Peter F
DG are trying to force the owners of existing gliders to subsidise their
current operations.
DG simply build a fleet of gliders that no-one wants to buy.
LS8 - Possibly their best product, but no-one is buying Std Class anymore
LS10 / DG808 - Too late arriving on the market. Why would you buy one of
these in preference to a Ventus / ASG29 / JS1
DG1000 - Another good glider, but doesn't have the reputation of the Duo
for private owners. Too expensive for club use
DGs attitude to legacy LS owners has also put potential purchasers off.
Given that there is in fact little to chose between a Duo & DG1000 if I
was considering either I'd go for the Duo just to avoid dealing with DG.
PF
At 22:42 08 February 2011, Dr. John wrote:
>Is it true that the EU is charging DG aprox $5000 a year to maintain
>FLyingnsx
>
Dr. John
I was led to believe. I love my DG303 and hope they find a way to
stay in business and also not offend the entire customer base. Maybe
a DG-1001-F with flaps? Considering how difficult the glider
business is with material and labor costs, it's no surprise that only
the strongest and the best will remain in business. Dang, Darwin was
right again. I wonder if they worry about the JS-2 20 Meter that I'm
sure is in the works. I just wish a new glider cost would come down
to luxury car cost and not a mid-level home cost . I hate it when I
am dreaming about my future turbine sailplane and my wife reminds me
that our house cost less than my plane would. I guess if the glider
were nice enough, I might be able to sleep in it!
Westbender
Well, if you buy one against your wife's wishes, you WILL be sleeping
in it! :o)
Andreas Maurer
<jetsai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It's good to know that there is no big EASA tax behind the problem as
>I was led to believe. I love my DG303 and hope they find a way to
>stay in business and also not offend the entire customer base.
No way DG is going to stay in business.
>Maybe
>a DG-1001-F with flaps?
Well...
Take a close look at this video od the DG-1000 destruction test:
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/Videos/bruchversuch-i.wmv
The 1000 HAS had flaps from the beginning.
No idea why they never offered that version.
> I guess if the glider
>were nice enough, I might be able to sleep in it!
I know someone who does indeed sleep in his Ventus which is parked in
his garage...
Andreas
Tony V
> .....I love my DG303 and hope they find a way to
> stay in business and also not offend the entire customer base.
Too late.
Tony
Mike Ash
Andreas Maurer <mau...@funsystem.de> wrote:
> > I guess if the glider
> >were nice enough, I might be able to sleep in it!
>
> I know someone who does indeed sleep in his Ventus which is parked in
> his garage...
You can sleep in your glider, but you cannot fly your house. Always keep
this in mind when making financial plans.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Tony
> You can sleep in your glider, but you cannot fly your house. Always keep
> this in mind when making financial plans.
>
I tried to keep reminding Leah of this but it didn't really work. I
did get a huge garage though so I'm not complaining.
kirk.stant
>
> You can sleep in your glider, but you cannot fly your house. Always keep
> this in mind when making financial plans.
As someone who has actually slept in his glider (my LS6, following a
spur of the moment XC flight from Phoenix to Parowan with $2 in my
wallet), I can only say that while the 6 is a wonderful sailplane, it
leaves a lot to be desired as a house.
The real reason for glider-camping was my lack of tie-down gear (and
with the 6 you really can't just use flight-line rope - nothing on the
wingtips to tie it to!) and the windy nighttime conditions. I figured
the best way to keep my glider available for the return flight the
next day was to stay in the cockpit or right next to it overnight.
And yes, I did make it back to Phoenix the next day - beautiful Cu's
the whole way.
Kirk
66
Mike Ash
<c8399d15-07f7-4de0...@a8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
"kirk.stant" <kirk....@gmail.com> wrote:
Note that you survived the experience, though, which is more than you
could probably say if you ever tried to use your house as a glider!
More seriously, thanks for the story. These XC adventures certainly can
be interesting. Based on how I feel after a long flight, I think I would
be unable to walk after spending a night in my 20.
SoaringXCellence
anymore"