Glider Collections

[Kevin Christner]

I'm interested in finding out what some of the largest private collections of "classic" (roughly 1965-1975) are (Steve I already know you have about a gazillion...).

I currently have an Elfe S-3, Libelle 301, Diamant 17.2 and ASW-12. What do you own?

2C

[Steve Leonard]

"about a gazillion" is a bit of an overstatement, Kevin. I think I only have 91 meters of Glasflugel, if I include the FJ-1 (modified 301 wings).

Steve Leonard

[Tony]

2 Cherokee II's, SH-1, The NG-1 (For Sale!), half a Std. Cirrus.

[Papa3]

Which Elfe? I helped to pull one out of a barn in northern NJ back in the 1990s. IIRC, it had been flown by George Moffat at some point. I thought it ended up at the Milwaukee School of Engineering...

[Steve Leonard]

On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:31:34 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> Which Elfe? I helped to pull one out of a barn in northern NJ back in the 1990s. IIRC, it had been flown by George Moffat at some point. I thought it ended up at the Milwaukee School of Engineering.

That was probably the PM3. The S3 flown by (can't remember now) Moffat or Smith in Poland in 1968 came to the US, but got crashed. Last I knew, it was in a salvage yard in Wyoming, Delaware (Jenkins Airport, I think). Have pictures of it somewhere. Don't think Moffat ever flow the PM3, but I could be mistaken.

A bit about the PM3 here:

http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Elfe_PM3.html

Looks like it has gone to England since then. Looks very nice.

Steve

[Papa3]

Yes - it must be the PM3. When I got to it, it had many big holes in the wing skins (plywood) in order to make repairs to various stringers and I believe the controls. The open trailer was massive, with mil-spec wheels that looked like they came from a deuce and a half.

It had been owned by the brother in law of Janice Hoke (of Sailplane Racing News fame) who was captain for United I believe. He was part way through restoration when he became terminally ill. I always wondered if it made it back to flying status.

The fact that the link below mentions Milwaukee suggests it's the same one.

[JS]

We all know who will win the Classic Collection Contest.
Interesting to know where two ASW12s are. Which one does Kevin have? Dave Nelson's 15m version? Mark Grubb's complete refurb? Oder....
The only prescription is more Kowbell!
Jim

[Kevin Christner]

I have Mark Grubb's. The canopy mod, gas struts allowing 90 degree movement to the rear, is very nice. Unfortunately the polyurethane has not held up well and large areas are cracking off.

AJ and George flew Elfe S3's in 1968. However, if you look at any two S3's, even those with sequential s/n's, while they look the same, they are often internally very different.

Does anyone know if there are any other currently airworthy ASW-12s out there? Not sure how far along Steve is on his. Rick Walters' is working on his. Last I talked to him he was planning on installing spoilers as part of the rebuild process.

The holy grail right now is the 604. Four are sitting in Arizona. No contact from the owner after repeated attempts. I'd also like to get a Sisu. Appears to still be a few airworthy. Only one I've heard of flying recently is AJ's that Dick Butler has and is restoring for eventual return to the NSM.

[Go Soaring]

Ah. But can top trump you all.....
Along with Cirrus, Astir x2, Pegase...the jewel
in the crown. FS24 Phoenix.



At 20:26 19 February 2014, Kevin Christner
wrote:

>On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:47:07
PM UTC-5, JS wrote:
>> We all know who will win the Classic
Collection Contest.

>>=20

>> Interesting to know where two ASW12s
are. Which one does Kevin have?

>Dave=

> Nelson's 15m version? Mark Grubb's
complete refurb? Oder....

>>=20

>> The only prescription is more Kowbell!

>>=20

>> Jim
>
>I have Mark Grubb's. The canopy mod, gas
struts allowing 90 degree

>movemen=

>t to the rear, is very nice. Unfortunately
the polyurethane has not held

>u=

>p well and large areas are cracking off.
>
>AJ and George flew Elfe S3's in 1968.
However, if you look at any two

>S3's=

>, even those with sequential s/n's, while
they look the same, they are

>ofte=

>n internally very different.
>
>Does anyone know if there are any other
currently airworthy ASW-12s out

>the=

>re? Not sure how far along Steve is on his.
Rick Walters' is working on

>h=

>is. Last I talked to him he was planning on
installing spoilers as part

>of=
> the rebuild process. =20

>
>The holy grail right now is the 604. Four
are sitting in Arizona. No

>cont=

>act from the owner after repeated attempts.
I'd also like to get a Sisu.

>=

>Appears to still be a few airworthy. Only
one I've heard of flying

>recentl=

>y is AJ's that Dick Butler has and is
restoring for eventual return to the

>=
>NSM.
>

[ueli....@gmail.com]

Kevin, there is one ASW12 airworthy and flying in Switzerland, see http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightbook.html?rt=olc&st=olc-league&pi=48331&sp=2013

[Robert M]

I own the only H121 Globetrotter. It is an Ursula Hanle design. Two place side by side. It was designed to be fully aerobatic.

I also own the only Antonov A-15 that I know of in the Western Heisphere. There are 3 others flying or flyable that I know of. One in Lithuania, one in Germany, and one in either Hungary or the Czech Republic. Mine is an 18M version.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, NM

[ifee...@hotmail.com]

When Steve finishes that ASW-12 I may have to make a pilgrimage from Vancouver to see it. I had been daydreaming about someday buying it since the first year I went soaring. I suppose that if I ever sell my ASW-15b I'll have to replace it with my second choice: an ASW-17. All that time spent practicing no airbrake, forward slip spot landings wasted :-)

Seriously, it's good to know the last 12 made is in the hands of someone who will appreciate it and restore it to it's former glory.

As for collections, well one member of my club owns a Grunau Baby and a Fauvel (also working on a Cessna 195 when he has time) but that's about it.

[Eric Munk]

There's one in Norway under restoration to fly.

[Kevin Christner]

According to several sources there were about 350 A-15's built. Were most of these cut up for scrap to build Migs?

[Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas]

The legendary made-in-the-USA Arlington (designed by Leonard Niemi) Sisu 1A production #10 is airworthy and flying at Marfa, Texas. Beside the prototype, only 10 were built and the Sisu 1A is often acknowledged as the most significant sailplane ever designed and built in the USA.

This Sisu 1A at Marfa is owned by Steve Parker, son of Alvin Parker, who made the first-ever in the world 1000+ km flight in a Sisu in 1964 (50 years ago this summer from Odessa, Texas to Kimball, Nebraska.) That record-setting sailplane is the Sisu that is displayed aloft in the Smithsonian Air & Space Hazy Center near Dulles, Virginia. The Sisu at Marfa was arranged as a replacement for the Parker family. It is hangared and in excellent condition. It is very inspiring for me to fly along with it in the Marfa skies as it is very distinctive with the V-tail, it always reminds me of the many Sisu cover photos from the SOARING magazines of the sixties.

Also hangared and airworthy in Marfa is my collection (only 6), including my Dad's Schempp-Hirth 17.7 meter Open Cirrus (first flew at Marfa in "The Sun Ship Game" contest in 1969), my S-H Standard Cirrus, my hot-rockin' DG-1000T, a nicely restored Schleicher ASK-13 that I trailer to the vintage sailplane meets, my new ASK-21 for training and checkrides and my only US sailplane, a very yellow Schweizer 1-36 "Sprite" formerly owned by Bob Ball and a blast to fly.

Next to my hangar "museum" on Marfa Airport is the bronze plaque for the 15th National Landmark of Soaring, dedicated in 2008 by the National Soaring Museum. (My hangar wall is full of memorabilia from the soaring activities at Marfa since 1960.) What reunion of legendary pilots that was! George Moffat, Ben Greene, "Big John" Brittingham, Johnny Byrd, Ed Byars, Bill Holbrook, Dick Johnson, Rob Buck, Bill Snead, Steve Parker, Neil Muxworthy, Bob Bowden and many more pilots and sons of pilots (formerly the crews), made the long journey to the landmark dedication at my hangar on the edge of nowhere in west Texas. But that's another story, and you can look it up in the SSA website SOARING 2008 magazine archives. My point: Sometimes it is not just the sailplanes, but also the names in the logbooks.

[ggc....@gmail.com]

The Australian Gliding Museum in Bacchus Marsh near Melbourne has a few, although mostly of earlier vintage. Here is a page with the Display Sheets:

http://australianglidingmuseum.org.au/index.php?option=com_weblinks&view=category&id=15&Itemid=3

Regards
Jarek

[Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas]

Anyone know where the two ASW-12's of Ben Greene and Wally Scott are now located?
Both pilots shared the record 1153 km distance flight in July, 1970 out of Odessa, Texas. These gentlemen timed their landing touchdown at the same moment to share the record!

Also, Jeff Byard, Doug Fronius and friends have a nice collection of classic and vintage sailplanes at Tehachapi, California. I trailered my ASK-13 from Marfa out there last May for their annual Memorial Day weekend rally. Great fun sharing thermals with those graceful wood and fabric sailplanes.

See the VSA website vintagesailplane.org for info on upcoming events and join VSA for an excellent and colorful magazine. There are more restored vintage and classic sailplanes flying today than 10 years ago and the fleet is growing.

[Steve Leonard]

On Friday, February 21, 2014 9:45:01 AM UTC-6, Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas wrote:
> Anyone know where the two ASW-12's of Ben Greene and Wally Scott are now located? Both pilots shared the record 1153 km distance flight in July, 1970 out of Odessa, Texas. These gentlemen timed their landing touchdown at the same moment to share the record!

Ben's belongs to Tom Kennedy. Went through substantial mods when owned by Wil Schuemann. Not sure where it is, as registration has expired. Wally's is now in the museum at the Wasserkuppe.

[Dan Marotta]

The Ag Wagon that I fly two days per week at Moriarty is the same one that I
towed behind at Marfa in 1988 when it was owned and flown by Bill Shurley.


"Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas" <FBCo...@aol.com> wrote in
message news:3b151404-0c55-422f...@googlegroups.com...

[Steve Leonard]

Back to the original question. Kevin played 4 card draw. Tony played 5 cards. Go Soaring played 5 cards. Burt Compton played his 6, but two were quite new. So, maybe he played 4?

OK, I will play what I think are my top 5. All fit the original '65 to '75 manufacture time.

Prototype HP-14. Last homebuilt sailplane to win the US Nationals (1966, Reno).
AS-W12, serial 15. Last one built.
BS1, serial 12. Nothing special in its history, but Big and Bad.
Kestrel 401 serial 32. Started off 17 meters, was cut down to 15, then later returned to 17 meters.
Glasflugel 604, serial 8. Winner 1978 US Nationals, flown by AJ Smith.

I could do an all wood hand, too. Have Old Dog Walters old Ka-8.

I know. He who dies with the most toys still dies. :-)

Steve

[uncl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Friday, February 21, 2014 2:31:09 PM UTC-5, Steve Leonard wrote:
> Back to the original question. Kevin played 4 card draw. Tony played 5 cards. Go Soaring played 5 cards. Burt Compton played his 6, but two were quite new. So, maybe he played 4? OK, I will play what I think are my top 5. All fit the original '65 to '75 manufacture time. Prototype HP-14. Last homebuilt sailplane to win the US Nationals (1966, Reno). AS-W12, serial 15. Last one built. BS1, serial 12. Nothing special in its history, but Big and Bad. Kestrel 401 serial 32. Started off 17 meters, was cut down to 15, then later returned to 17 meters. Glasflugel 604, serial 8. Winner 1978 US Nationals, flown by AJ Smith. I could do an all wood hand, too. Have Old Dog Walters old Ka-8. I know. He who dies with the most toys still dies. :-) Steve

4 hand
Baby Albatross, 1-26 #002, Std Libelle, ASW-19.
Backed by ASK-21, ASW-24E, ASW-27, ASW-28
Too much new stuff- I feel unbalanced.
UH

[npfe...@soamec.com]

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:43:24 PM UTC-6, Kevin Christner wrote:

> What do you own?
>
> 2C

An airworthy 1958 Ka-6BR (#461) originally owned by Fritz Sebek in Miami, an airworthy 1967 Ka-6E (#4135?) that lived in the Tulsa area from near new, and an airworthy (after major repair and restoration) 1958 Ka-2b built from a kit by a club in Balingen Germany. I've repaired/restored all or part so these.

As restoration projects another Ka-6BR (1957 #337) originally owned by the Akaflieg at Braunschweig and then near Seattle for decades (under restoration), a 1954 Ka-2 (#38) stripped to bare wood and in the shop, but awaiting its time, a 1959 Lo-150a imported by Sven Jensen & Art Johnson in 1962 to Illinois (under restoration), another Lo-150 originally flown by A.J. Smith in need of major repair (fuselage in two main pieces, but with an imported set of wings to replace a badly broken one - awaiting restoration), and a Ka-6Cr that unfortunately was damaged at the 2012 IVSM at Harris Hill and has a fuselage broken behind the wing, but wings and horizontal surfaces intact (awaiting its time in the shop).

Then there is the ASK-14 (#14004) that I own with two partners. It is in quite reasonable condition, but needs a total restoration. I am working on the fuselage now and my partners will do the flying surfaces.

And yes, I live in Wichita near Steve. I have no intention of catching up to his number of gliders, and I have a wife to help me avoid it as well.

To get info on the old gliders, you might look for a copy of a recent book commissioned by the Vintage Glider Club, "The Vintage Glider Club - a celebration of 40 years preserving and flying historic gliders 1973 - 2013." Cumulus Soaring carries it in the US. It has details on many of the vintage and classic gliders around the globe.

Good Luck,

..... Neal

[azpaq...@gmail.com]

AS-W12 SN 002
Rick Paquette

[Jeff]

Low hours ASW-14 VG condition. Anyone want to add it to their collection?

[Bob Kuykendall]

I know where there's a good Edelweiss that wood round out our collection...

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Tim O"Donnell used to fly a Susu 1A out of Warner Springs. Had not been there since 2003, but the glider was still there and being flown in 2003.

[Steve Leonard]

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 7:04:08 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Tim O"Donnell used to fly a Susu 1A out of Warner Springs. Had not been there since 2003, but the glider was still there and being flown in 2003.

Tim is still flying his Sisu and logging flights to OLC, flying mainly from Ken Jernstedt airport in Oregon. Good on you, Tim!

Steve Leonard

[us...@example.net]

On 29/03/2015 22:40, Jeff wrote:
> Low hours ASW-14 VG condition. Anyone want to add it to their collection?
>

Assuming it's actually an ASK-14 - then Yes if it has the electric starter.

GC

[johnba...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 4:43:24 PM UTC-6, Kevin Christner wrote:
> I'm interested in finding out what some of the largest private collections of "classic" (roughly 1965-1975) are (Steve I already know you have about a gazillion...).
>
> I currently have an Elfe S-3, Libelle 301, Diamant 17.2 and ASW-12. What do you own?
>
> 2C

Only one new to me sailplane in my collection, 1973 ASW 17 s/n 17024, first flown by Rudy Mozer in 1974 Open Nationals placed 8th over all, first place went to Ben Greene. Flew more hours last year than the preceding 15, a flying restoration.

[Jeff]

It is a real ASK-14, and yes it has electric start. In Virginia.

[Paul T]

My Glider collection:-

Slingsby T21B
DFS Habicht
DFS Kranich II
DFS Weihe
Goe-3 Minimoa
Goe-4 (Goevier)
Grunau Baby IIb
Mü-13 D 'Atalante'
Mü-13 D II
Mü-13 D III
SG-38 Schulgleiter
Doppelraab IV
LO-100 Zwergreiher
LO-150 Burgreiher
Mue-13 E Bergfalke I
Scheibe Bergfalke II
Scheibe Bergfalke III
Scheibe L-Spatz-55
K 2b Rhoenschwalbe
Ka 4 Rhoenlerche
Ka 6 CR Rhoensegler
Ka 6 E Rhoensegler
K 7 Rhoenadler
K 8
ASK 13
ASH 25
ASK 21 (several)
ASK 21Mi
ASK 23
ASW 15 B
ASW 17
ASW 19 B
ASW 20 B
ASW 20 BL
ASW 22 BL
ASW 27 B
ASG 29
DG-101
DG-202
DG-600
DG800S
Discus BM
Discus BT
Discus B
Discus K
Discus CS
Discus 2b
Duo Discus
Duo Discus X
LS-4
LS-7
LS8-18
Standard Libelle
Grob Astir CS
Pilatus B4
ICA IS-29 D +D2
LET Blanik L-13 (several)
Schweizer SGS 2-33A
Schweizer SGS 2-32
Schweizer SGS 1-26
SZD-Bocian
SZD-22C Mucha Standard
WA-21 Javelot II
WA-30 Bijave
ASK 21-J
ASW 20 CL-J
ASW 22 BL-J
Ka 4 Motorlerche
SF 25 C-Falke (several variants)
SF 28 A Tandem Falke
SZD Pirat
H-36 Dimona
Auster H glider
DFS-230 Assault Glider
Airspeed Horsa
Waco CG-4
A-I-R Atos VR
Genesis 2
BrightStar Swift
Aeriane Swift'Light
Horten Ho IV
SB-13
MDM Fox
Stemme S-10
Let 33 Solo
VT100/VSM-40 Démant
VSB-62 Vega

Maybe one or two I have forgot. All flown from my private grass
strip at the base of Skiddaw in the English Lake District.

[Bruce Hoult]

What scale?

[coynepubl...@gmail.com]

Perhaps 4:1?

[Paul T]

At 16:22 01 April 2015, coynepubl...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 8:14:22 AM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult
wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 11:15:07 PM UTC+13, Paul T
wrote:
>> > My Glider collection:-

>> >=20

>> > Slingsby T21B
>> > DFS Habicht
>> > DFS Kranich II
>> > DFS Weihe
>> > Goe-3 Minimoa
>> > Goe-4 (Goevier)
>> > Grunau Baby IIb

>> > M=FC-13 D 'Atalante'=20
>> > M=FC-13 D II=20
>> > M=FC-13 D III=20

>> > Auster H glider=20

>> > DFS-230 Assault Glider
>> > Airspeed Horsa
>> > Waco CG-4
>> > A-I-R Atos VR
>> > Genesis 2
>> > BrightStar Swift
>> > Aeriane Swift'Light
>> > Horten Ho IV
>> > SB-13
>> > MDM Fox
>> > Stemme S-10
>> > Let 33 Solo

>> > VT100/VSM-40 Demmant
>> > VSB-62 Vega
>> >=20

>> > Maybe one or two I have forgot. All flown from my private

grass=20

>> > strip at the base of Skiddaw in the English Lake District.

>>=20

>> What scale?
>
>Perhaps 4:1?
>

For MS FSX. Great with Cumulus X and Winch X addons.

Haven't mentioned the Condor hangar or FS9, FS2002, FS98
collection. Have a nice collection of powered planes as well! ;-)

At 4:1 SCALE that lot would probably equal the price of a JS1C.